olaeffect:

I don't know where salvation is now a doctrine of men?

But will a Pastor keep preaching salvation to the already saved. There is no service that alter call is not made for people to give their lives to Christ.
After salvation you are ripe and set for heaven, why do you not just die and go?
As long as you live here after salvation, then you must live a glorious life free of sin, full of prayers, health, good works, and finally prosperity. And if you feel this is the doctrine of men, then you know nothing about God of the Bible.

Jesus Christ never linked Salvation, which He offers , to churchianism. And so since your post suggested a link now exists, it made sense to assume your teaching comes from another one of the many doctrines and traditions of men, which Jesus Christ declared were abominations where God's Truth is concerned.

SexyBabe001:


Bros, calm down... The pastor claimee they were sacked cos their money was low and Oyedepo debunked their claims that they were sacked cos they were not productive and not bearing fruit..

Biko, is English hard to understand? The media was awashed with the lies from the pastors but the man in charge debunked their lies and said they were sacked cos they were not productive. Did I digress from my earlier stand?

Bia this is not about understanding English,
If I may ask you,
What's the yardstick for checkmating the number of souls worn to the church aside the money that the sacked pastors were supposed to be remitting to the overseas??

If they're no souls in the church, would they he any contributions or returns to the overseas?
We really need to learn to be vocally minded.

The smiling of the goat must have a meaning.

Quaddafi29:
Does this make sense? You build a church in village where other 7 churches exist. and you gauge fruitfulness by the number worshipers poached from the other churches? So if they stick to their own churches, that means they are not good Christians? Many like me are tired of this too much prosperity and are seeking salvation first. Money comes from the adherents and since the adherents are few, the money is likely to be scanty. I think money is the issue. Encourage the innocent pastors and the money will come later.

.

I was just reading but decided to reply you.
In the village, there are people that don't go to church, they are people not yet save you go after them that is not poaching. In winners you are advised to go after unbelievers not members of other churches. Are you clear?

Money can not be the issue. I will explain.
So far, they've build over one thousand church
Each costing over 35m.
They have never taken offering or raise building seed in winners worldwide.
It will take more than 30 years to recover that amount from the local church.
The church have never borrowed or taken over draft.
The church can afford to pay him for another 100 years.

But why would you keep someone that is not productive?

If you are seeking salvation confess your sin and forsake them. If you have done that you are saved. You don't go about seeking salvation as you claim it is not of your work.

Mind you don't go back to sin again. Not confess today then you sin tomorrow claiming you are seeking salvation

Questions to oyedepo.
Would you have sacked a pastor whose church growth index fell below expected but his income was far above expected also?

triplechoice:


Nothing in what your pastor has said has proven the pastors were lying.

If someone accuses you for being a thief or a scammer because of the extravagant way you spend money and reports you to the police, the only way you can defend yourself is to provide proof of how you earn your money legally to show that you're not involve in any criminal activity whatsoever.

Now , the sacked pastors have said the reason for the sack was because the church told them that they were not generating enough income.

Since the accusation has to do with money, we expected your pastor to have directly address it by providing enough proof of how exactly the church makes its money to build those churches and also pay the pastors their salaries regularly so as to clear the church name that they never at anytime asked the pastors to bring new members for money.

Unfortunately, there's nothing in his address that has shown exactly how his church earn its revenue other than a very embarrassing attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes.

Or does winners chapel, print money secretly?

My opinion is that if your pastor believes he his doing good for the larger society through his church business he should have remain silent and allow people say whatever they want.

As for the pastors themselves, I think they were stupid for complaining. They can't pretend not to know what the person who employed them wanted them to do or not to know how the church makes money to pay their salaries.

Its funny the way we Nigerians talk and make ourselves autorithy in some certain issues. Like I said, its obvious the pastors are lying. If you know Oyedepo well enough he hardly reply to media or social media talks. He has been silent for almost 1-2 weeks and everyone was awash with different facts and useless talk.

Now for clarity sake, he came out to clear the air on what really happened as the senior pastor in charge setting the records right, you are even blaming him.

What do you ppl want sef? He talk wahala, he no talk... Wahala...

By the way I don't attend Winners.. I have never worship there or attend their service but I have great respect for Bishop Oyedepo

Desystem:



Bia this is not about understanding English,
If I may ask you,
What's the yardstick for checkmating the number of souls worn to the church aside the money that the sacked pastors were supposed to be remitting to the overseas??

If they're no souls in the church, would they he any contributions or returns to the overseas?
We really need to learn to be vocally minded.

Pls go to Winners Chapel at Ota... They have a correspondence office and they will reply you with adequate data

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ never linked Salvation, which He offers , to churchianism. And so since your post suggested a link now exists, it made sense to assume your teaching comes from another one of the many doctrines and traditions of men, which Jesus Christ declared were abominations where God's Truth is concerned.

I really don't understand your point or line of questioning, but just note that there was no church as it is today untill after the day of pentecost.
So please note what you mean by church (i.e body of Christ, gathering of believers, or a Christian place of worship or building)

when they talk about winning souls, do they mean leading people to Christ, or bringing members to their church? Because I don't see why you will be dragging someone who is attending a church already to come to your church, claiming to be winning souls. Abi God of winners is diff from God of redeem or CAC.

firo08:

You are stupid.
Where will the pastors start from?

Another idiot on the loose. Why mad ppl come full NL these days?

Can't you reply a common post without an insult? Does it mean you are depressed or on drugs? Chaiii

Bikonu, learn to reply without abusing no one. Its not a must I agree with you.. No be fight.

I would prefer 1000 manufacturing industries and not churches.........

Nkwazemakennyj:
I am not against what the Bishop has said, but the content of the letter given to the pastors is the reason why they are sacked. Someone who has the letter can share to enable us understand the both party point clearly.

.

Here's the latter.

SexyBabe001:
Bishop Oyedepo addresses issue of Living Faith Rural Churches Low Income:

NONSENSE !
OUR ONLY CRITERIA IS HOW MANY SOULS WON AND NOT HOW MUCH INCOME.

WHEN WE EMPLOYED 7000 PASTORS AT ONCE SOCIAL MEDIA WAS DEAD. WE HAVE MORE EMPLOYEES THAN MOST STATES IN NIGERIA AND WE HAVE NEVER OWED THEM OR TAKEN BANK OVERDRAFT ONCE.

THE PASTORS WERE ASKED TO GO BECAUSE THEY WERE UNFRUITFUL.
MANY OF THE CHURCHES BUILT CAN NEVER PAY FOR THE CHURCH BUILDING IN 30 YEARS.

WE HAVE NO PATIENCE WITH FAILURE HERE.

-Bishop David Oyedepo at CHoP

*We have built more than 1,000 Churches in rural areas where in the next 30 years, they can never generate such fund, with each costing more than 14 Million Naira.
*We are hunting after souls, not income.

People are confused about our Ministry. I learnt some fellows said, “you know, they are not bringing income, that is why they asked them to go.” We asked you to go because you are unfruitful.

Unfruitful! Blatant failure. Doing what there? We have no patience with failure here.
When we employed 7,000 people at a time, Social Media was dead.
We have more employees in this Organisation than most of the States. Church Gist. No one is owed a dime salary and we don’t borrow, we don’t beg. Ask our bank whether we take overdraft.

We are covenant bound, working in the light of God’ Word.
Enjoying an open Heaven.
We have fully delivered the first phase of 1,000 plus buildings to the rural Churches. None of those Churches can generate that fund in the next 30 years. No, we are hunting after souls.

Money: NONSENSE!
We have never lacked it and yet we have never prayed for it, we are just simply obeying God and He is backing up what He is asking us to do. Awesome God.

Now the next set is about to be flagged off, just certifying the landed property issues, nothing else. We have no lack of anything. The world is confused.

Walking in the light of God’s Word. Please obey God to the full and watch out for His manifestations in your life.
Well, you don’t need so much Mathematics to know a thousand buildings; that is not 1000 Naira each, that is not 10 Million (Naira) each, that is not 12 Million (Naira) each, that is not 14 Million (Naira) each.

Some are 35 Million (Naira). At a go!
We have never seen it ourselves. We just watched God doing it.
The only criteria: How many souls have they gotten there? Then, build for them.
How many souls? Not once: “how much money do they have?”
Apart from individuals now investing in promoting the Kingdom of God: building 5 Churches, some building 2, some building 3 Churches.

Just obey God. Church Gist. Obedience will turn you to a living wonder
Have you ever seen raise a prayer point of “O God, send us money”?
You have been here for some time, we pray every day. Now we pray 3 times a day:
Covenant Hour of Prayer;
Covenant Revival Prayer: Morning and Evening.

Going out every day on the streets.
You want to see what we see, go and do what we do. But if you are not saved, there is nothing you do that matters. There is nothing you do that matters.

Note: The Church has spent over 2 Billion naira to built over 1000 church auditoria in the first phase.

#BishopDavidOyedepo
#CHoP22July2021
#ChurchGist

CHoP is an acronym for Covenant Hour of Prayer.

Source:
https://www.facebook.com/444807728996437/posts/2487101721433684/

Fool yourself and your members, the basis for church planting is money that's all.

OloshoMan:
Since God called them, Why not wait for God to sack them automatically from heaven, or is it now that you people know that the most effective way is human action not by praying.

Them go pastor school dem come employ them....

iramure:
Guy watch your mouth. Be careful with what you say about a highly respected man of God. Ask for forgiveness.
But in all I believe you. He is a Bleep up big time business yahoo pastor

is it God that called oledepo man of God or its people that called him?

do know whether God accept oledepo or not....

oledepo is an antichrist the bible talked about...

tell me one thing Jesus said that oledepo did?

CharisEleos:


You don't get it. The pastors are not sick or infirmed. They are not productive according to him.

In the spirituality both sick, infirmity etc all leads to unprofitability or unproductivity in the kingdom of God.

Wow I never knew Pastors are employed. I thought God are call them. This means the GO called them himself.

SexyBabe001:
Bishop Oyedepo addresses issue of Living Faith Rural Churches Low Income:

NONSENSE !
OUR ONLY CRITERIA IS HOW MANY SOULS WON AND NOT HOW MUCH INCOME.

WHEN WE EMPLOYED 7000 PASTORS AT ONCE SOCIAL MEDIA WAS DEAD. WE HAVE MORE EMPLOYEES THAN MOST STATES IN NIGERIA AND WE HAVE NEVER OWED THEM OR TAKEN BANK OVERDRAFT ONCE.

THE PASTORS WERE ASKED TO GO BECAUSE THEY WERE UNFRUITFUL.
MANY OF THE CHURCHES BUILT CAN NEVER PAY FOR THE CHURCH BUILDING IN 30 YEARS.

WE HAVE NO PATIENCE WITH FAILURE HERE.

-Bishop David Oyedepo at CHoP

*We have built more than 1,000 Churches in rural areas where in the next 30 years, they can never generate such fund, with each costing more than 14 Million Naira.
*We are hunting after souls, not income.

People are confused about our Ministry. I learnt some fellows said, “you know, they are not bringing income, that is why they asked them to go.” We asked you to go because you are unfruitful.

Unfruitful! Blatant failure. Doing what there? We have no patience with failure here.
When we employed 7,000 people at a time, Social Media was dead.
We have more employees in this Organisation than most of the States. Church Gist. No one is owed a dime salary and we don’t borrow, we don’t beg. Ask our bank whether we take overdraft.

We are covenant bound, working in the light of God’ Word.
Enjoying an open Heaven.
We have fully delivered the first phase of 1,000 plus buildings to the rural Churches. None of those Churches can generate that fund in the next 30 years. No, we are hunting after souls.

Money: NONSENSE!
We have never lacked it and yet we have never prayed for it, we are just simply obeying God and He is backing up what He is asking us to do. Awesome God.

Now the next set is about to be flagged off, just certifying the landed property issues, nothing else. We have no lack of anything. The world is confused.

Walking in the light of God’s Word. Please obey God to the full and watch out for His manifestations in your life.
Well, you don’t need so much Mathematics to know a thousand buildings; that is not 1000 Naira each, that is not 10 Million (Naira) each, that is not 12 Million (Naira) each, that is not 14 Million (Naira) each.

Some are 35 Million (Naira). At a go!
We have never seen it ourselves. We just watched God doing it.
The only criteria: How many souls have they gotten there? Then, build for them.
How many souls? Not once: “how much money do they have?”
Apart from individuals now investing in promoting the Kingdom of God: building 5 Churches, some building 2, some building 3 Churches.

Just obey God. Church Gist. Obedience will turn you to a living wonder
Have you ever seen raise a prayer point of “O God, send us money”?
You have been here for some time, we pray every day. Now we pray 3 times a day:
Covenant Hour of Prayer;
Covenant Revival Prayer: Morning and Evening.

Going out every day on the streets.
You want to see what we see, go and do what we do. But if you are not saved, there is nothing you do that matters. There is nothing you do that matters.

Note: The Church has spent over 2 Billion naira to built over 1000 church auditoria in the first phase.

#BishopDavidOyedepo
#CHoP22July2021
#ChurchGist

CHoP is an acronym for Covenant Hour of Prayer.

Source:
https://www.facebook.com/444807728996437/posts/2487101721433684/

According to the Bible, Moral failings are the only reason to sack/remove a Pastor, but the Oyedepo Version 2021 now adds that a Pastor may be removed if the Church Growth Index (which he assures the blind that it has nothing to do with income) is poor.

BafanaBafana:
The sacked pastor in this case was explicitly told about income. He was told the church should be able to generate money to run itself, and shouldn't be running at loss.
They made a mistake in giving him the explanation, thinking he won't go public because of the fear of the wrath of God, but nigga is a Tiv man, dem no dey fear like that, he spilt everything.
Imagine if the church was in bonny island, and they couldn't grow in numbers, but have a fat income, would they sack the pastor?
Besides, when they talk about winning souls, do they mean leading people to Christ, or bringing members to their church? Because I don't see why you will be dragging someone who is attending a church already to come to your church, claiming to be winning souls.
Furthermore, I don't know if I have ever seen a living faith member who is living a Christlike life. Church is just gymnastic for most of them. The only thing they take seriously is paying of tithe, which is the emphasis of their messages by the way

I owe you a bottle of cold water.
If the church was in bonny island and they have just 10 members , but remits about 4 million naira on monthly basis, will they sack the pastor?

That letter was very clear and about income generation not enough to pay for their enjoyment.. . what am reading now is smart and off the matter with the sacked Pastor..
1. Any soul winning for numbers involved human factors.. income generation

2. Souls winning for Born again factor doesn't involve number increase but prepare them inside already for heaven..

SexyBabe001:


Bros, calm down... The pastor claimee they were sacked cos their money was low and Oyedepo debunked their claims that they were sacked cos they were not productive and not bearing fruit..

Biko, is English hard to understand? The media was awashed with the lies from the pastors but the man in charge debunked their lies and said they were sacked cos they were not productive. Did I digress from my earlier stand?

so you actually thought oyedepo will come on live television and accept he sacked them for lack of generation of funds even if that was the case?...don't be dumb my friend..He just told everyone interested what they would love to hear....it's none of my business anyways, just trying to make you reason with sensibility.

Image123:


Read up Acts 2 and learn how.

when u go out for evangelism are looking to win souls to Christ or lure souls to your church? D number of people in your church doesn't mean all of them are born again.. Some people followed jesus for food

olaeffect:

I really don't understand your point or line of questioning, but just note that there was no church as it is today untill after the day of pentecost.
So please note what you mean by church (i.e body of Christ, gathering of believers, or a Christian place of worship or building)

Ok. Let's who with Church here referring to Christ's which was built by Him.

Then we have that, as preached by Jesus Christ, Salvation only sets one up with eternal life while being born-again simply guarantees one entry into the Kingdom of God and not Heaven itself.

Jesus Christ sent His followers out to spread the Gospel, not teach people anything past that point. So those who call themselves pastors have nothing to do with Jesus Christ since the work they do was not commanded by Him.

No matter how Oyedepo or his members try to defend this, it is wrong in all aspects of life.
What is the real definition of winning soul?
To bring them to ur Church? does attending a church indicate that u are saved?
Canaanland Ota, have more than 50,000 capacity if I'm not mistaken, most people from far distance even decide not to attend the nearest winners chapel around them, they either chatter a bus or drive down there with their families. The Church is always full to the brim, and they have two or three services on Sundays which is amounting to minimum of 120,000 people on Sundays.. Will Oyedepo beat his chest and tell me he personally won the souls of those people? And how is he sure even 5% of them are saved? U opened 1000 branches and yet most of ur members worship at Canaanland..

He should understand that we still have other denominations like winners chapel that attract crowd too, or will I force people to come to only canaanland in the name of being fruitful?
I'm a Baptist and I'll always be one and no matter how a Winners pastor or member try to cajole me to come to their church I won't budge, cos all churches are meant to be for the same purpose, which is winning souls for Christ.

I can boldly say it that Oyedepo's claim about money not being the issue is questionable, how's that now? He needs to clarify what he meant by being fruitful? What was the great commission of Christ to his Apostles? He said:
Go in my name and preach the gospel to people of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, son and holyspirit. He didn't say they should bring all souls won to Jerusalem or a particular synagogue, once ur soul is truly won, u can be save wherever u are inasmuch u didn't deviate from the teachings of Christ.

He's complaining about building churches for so so so amount, and so what? What should Solomon do then? Is the purpose of building those churches to generate income or to expand the body of Christ? What would Christ have done in this situation?

The parable of a master and the talents given to his servants is strictly talking about business or investment not winning souls, there are other parables from Jesus that talked about forgiveness and winning souls, Baba should not come here to tell us what is not, we may be Christians and may believe in a biblical saying: "Touch not my annointig and do my prophets no harm" but we aren't dafts..
Is Odeyepo saying the GOD that led him to employ those pastors before has uncalled them? GOD isn't human, he doesn't make mistakes, even when He called Jonah to go and preach to the people of Nineveh, he disobeyed and GOD gave him factory reset himself and the guy comport straight up..

I rest my case?

Judolisco:
when u go out for evangelism are looking to win souls to Christ or lure souls to your church?

The very concept of soul winning, a doctrine of men, is about luring souls to one's church.

Jesus Christ did not send anyone out to win souls but to propagate His Gospel.

Kobojunkie:
According to the doctrines and traditions of Mog, it is no longer as Jesus Christ commanded, which is the preaching of the Gospel to the world, but the winning souls to fill seats in church auditoriums.

The average Churchian believes the words of their Mog over the Words of Jesus Christ.

such a pity .......

SexyBabe001:



Its funny the way we Nigerians talk and make ourselves autorithy in some certain issues. Like I said, its obvious the pastors are lying. If you know Oyedepo well enough he hardly reply to media or social media talks. He has been silent for almost 1-2 weeks and everyone was awash with different facts and useless talk.

Now for clarity sake, he came out to clear the air on what really happened as the senior pastor in charge setting the records right, you are even blaming him.

What do you ppl want sef? He talk wahala, he no talk... Wahala...

By the way I don't attend Winners.. I have never worship there or attend their service but I have great respect for Bishop Oyedepo

Your reply shows you didn't take the time to read my response.
You said it was obvious the pastors were lying. Why did you say so? Was it not because of what the Bishop has said?


You created a thread and commented on it but are unwilling to take criticism for what you started.
Oyedepo has not set any "record right" from anything he has said. The issue has to do with money and he is silent about the actual source of the church revenue. Once that is known, nobody will accuse him of employing pastors to make money for the church .So what are you talking about?

Anyway its enough now. Let's end the conversation. Have a wonderful day

FarahAideed:


He just confirmed what the pastors said and you even saw the explanation in the letter yet you said they are lying....He did no wrong by sacking unproductive staff ...if the can't be.fruitful for the church the should go and become regular members let pastors that understand the game takeover. .. for example I hate going to any church with Luke warm Akamu spirit that will kill your ginger once they open their mouth talking Slurred

"what does being frutithful" means

It is good to go out there and win souls, but what exactly is being done to 'keep' them if they are eventually won? I have worked closely with the pastorate of one of the well established assemblies of LFC in Abuja and I know what transpires.
Some members here make their assumptions based on what they see from afar or what they hear. But it goes beyond all that.
The population of a church shouldn't be used as the yardstick to judge its growth but the nos of souls actually saved. If you have so many churches in a locality and the vices there are not reflecting it, then there's an underlying issue(s).
The Follow Up unit in LFC used to be quite effective, but not anymore, at least in my assembly. I think the church is more interested in the nos of first timers that come for every Sunday service than the ones that are genuinely saved.

As for the income part, there's more to it, but what I'd state here for now is that whatever the local assembly generates, small part of it is retained to cater for it while most of it is transferred to the national headquarters. On this, there have been murmurings, but no senior pastor, I am aware of, has openly kicked against it. If you know how much is retained you'd feel sorry for some of these local assemblies. And you are on your own if it runs out before the end of that particular month and I have seen it happen severally. Even accommodation for the pastors, apart from the senior, is a huge wahala on its own.

make dem go aniont shang tsung, he go win plenty soul for them

ensamy:

In the spirituality both sick, infirmity etc all leads to unprofitability or unproductivity in the kingdom of God.

The only fruit God desires from us are Fruits of obedience - righteousness.

Even the sick inthe Kingdom of God are able to obey God's Law so they are not unprofitable or unproductive by God's standards as you claim.

Romanoff:


They are labourers. And not just evangelists. Every Christian is to go to the field and win souls. That's what it means to be fruitful and bear fruits that abide.

Bearing fruits that abide means following up on the souls you won so they don't go back into the world.

That's what Jesus mandated all Christians to do. Preach to them and grow.

If you're a Christian, you are a labourer that should win souls. Your aren't a salesman cause the gospel is not for sale.

Most are Christians with little or no understanding of the Scripture. There is the office of the Evangelist (Ephesians 4:11) and there is the Great Commission. What does this mean?