A lot of u guys are viewing this tin frm religious point of view. When countries like the UK are seriously lobbying to make London the Islamic financial capital of d world by setting up Islamic banks and insurance companies. You guys had better be objective abt this issue, cos the 3 major religions forbid dealing in interest.
Moreover, Soludo started d framework, Sanusi is just implementing it. Its obvious dt all of u dt are against d system are just ignorant abt it, just try and educate urselves on it.
And to d person dt said Sanusi's only PG degree is in Islamic Studies, for ur information, he has a MSc in Economics,

koruji:

@maclatunji
Nobody asked YOU to come up with the "FG paying for Hajj" example, and then come back to agree that the FG doesn't need to be paying for anybody's pilmigrage. If you claim you didn't backtrack that is all well and good.

It is not jealousy, it is the lack of equity & justice in paying for muslims to proceed on Hajj, without paying [size=14pt]equal amounts for something else for Christians [/size] that lead to somebody coming up with Jerusalem. It is OUR money not muslim, christian, traditionalists money. If we are in business together you cannot sell our products, then proceed to set aside Hajj money for yourself. I will have to take an equal cut out of our proceeds before we decide what happens to the rest - it is not jealousy - IT IS A RIGHT. Get it!!!

Kenimani ko - Ken Nnamani ni 

When did OBJ become a mouth-piece for anybody other than himself?

You just admitted it in your posts (inadvertently) that it is jealousy and kenimani that is disturbing you. So you think because I agree with ekt bear that government expenses on pilgrimage is wasteful, he has one on me (laughing). You see that is not what I wanted to achieve when I introduced that argument, I anticipated that he or someone else would go there (I read my opponents moves before they make them). I just wanted to establish that it is envy that motivates you folks and maybe fear. Another case-in-point is the demand by CAN for the removal of Arabic from 20, 10 and 5 Naira notes. Don't deny it, admit it and we will take you as you are.

virgo:

I had no intention of baiting you in order to assert my opinion. Just my two cents on what I know to be history. I have already gone through this "dark ages" discussion with someone else here on NL, and frankly I am done with it. Yet, as for one of your questions about the illiteracy/literacy of Arab traders. Allow me to state that before Islam, Arabia was not as developed as it was when Islam entered into the picture and conquests of other lands began. Empires like Persia and Egypt with already developed civilizations helped the Arabs a whole lot upon their conquests of those lands.Merely transferring the knowledge of ancient civilization into Arabic texts does not give them claim to that knowledge. I have always disagreed with bogus claims and half truths, but then again, you are entitled to your opinion and what you hold to be the truth. My stand has always been that no religion or race has ever fully developed without copying or borrowing from another one.

Anyway, thank you for wanting to share your material with me. I am more than grateful for your offer, but I am sure it is near impossible to get on another platform to continue this conversation. Sometimes I get numb from repeating myself over and over again.

@bolded, when it comes to Muslims, whatever we achieve is not so great, but if it is the West and maybe Christians for some people, it is the next best thing after the discovery of the wheel. @2nd bolded, you think that you disagree with bogus claims and half-truths all the time but in truth, you do not always do so particularly when it means putting your religion and beliefs you grew-up with in bad light (I know, you disagree with me).

One thing you have to understand is that the average Muslim born and bred in Lagos or other parts of the south of Nigeria has in all likelihood been fed with the same dogma that you Christians were fed with from childhood, thanks to our teachers in Primary and secondary school who saw in us an opportunity to evangelize and spread the gospel. We in essence know what you know. However, you know next to nothing about Islamic doctrines, history and culture other than the propaganda that you have been fed with from the west and your not-so-knowledgeable teachers and pastors. Have you ever considered this:

Why do Catholic Popes keep-on looking for ways to engage with Islamic Scholars and leaders? Let me guess, you think it is because they are Holy men of God spreading the sweet love of Jesus to "heathens"? That is a big fallacy, they do so because they know the truth of Islam as the true religion having interacted with Muslims for over 1300 years. However, they are not ready to loose their power and prestige over people like you. They will renounce Islam in public whilst studying and learning from it in private. I know, you disagree but I tell you:

The key is inside you to open your mind
The truth is out there, your heart can't be blind
Open your eyes and open your mind
Open your thoughts
Don't stay behind

***Many thanks to Nescafe for providing the inspiration***

koruji:

@ziccoit
Thanks for your response, it gives me a better view of what is involved. Here is the issue I see, and I believe it is why the implementation of "Islamic Banking" in Europe concentrated on the NIFI part. The other parts that involve following the trail of the money & monitoring its use:

1) Has religious undertones that could be dangerous down the line;
2) It would be very difficult to enforce

These lead to two consequences:
1) It leaves the door open, as I have being saying, for REAL extremists who have no understanding of the spirit of the law to begin enforcing an extreme version of it down the line. In a nation already in the throes of periodical upheavals with so much religious undercurrents it is not only foolhardy, but downright dangerous for a public official to start inserting religious elements into what ought to be secular matters. If those of us with access to education can be easily taken by the mention of "Sharia-Compliance" then there is trouble ahead when this gets into the general populace.

2) A law that is unenforceable often proves worse than if no such law were made - because it tends to generate perverse consequences. In this context, what is likely to happen is that people would take advantage of the non-interest nature of these banks, but merrily go on investing the fund in any kind of business they desire. We already have 1000s of laws that are not being enforced, why add another, especially one with so much religion attached. If anyone disputes that this is what will happen just look at how mirrors that are used to move money around by muslims and non-muslims alike in today's system. That is not going to change.

In addition, if these "Islamic Banks" borrow money from the CBN or other banks does it mean that those banks would not be able to collect interest on their money?

Basically, it seems that these proposed "Islamic Banks" are like joint ventures (with their business areas defined by agreement - in this case according to "Sharia" law). Apart from joint venture funding, the only other source of funding would be the CBN, which either means that they pay interest to the CBN or the CBN becomes a part of the bank - getting itself into commercial activities. This is not desirable for a nation that really wants to develop rapidly in my opinion.

The CBN should just put in place NIFI and forget about all these other provisions. In the alternative, the CBN could make provisions for both NIFI and the "Sharia-Compliant" Islamic Banks. In that case, it is my prediction that for the "Sharia-Compliant" Islamic Banks to follow their own rules, they would have to operate as small autonomous units - more like community banks as this appears to be the only case where the regional scope is small enough for the "Sharia" rules to be enforceable.

Otherwise, this would turn out to be a total sham, and a potentially dangerous sham at that.

Well, I don't go by your assertion that NIFI doesn't have religion undertone. Nothing in human thinking would like to have a taste of that without a push fron the religion. NIFI is only picked out of the myriads of opportunities set down by religion in our bid to circumvent GOD.
Reading through your comment made me understood you have a definition for shariah which is at variant with what Islam gives. Shariah is the totality of ways and manners a Muslim should spend his life before he is born through life to right after death in accordance with the stipulated rules and regulations as define by Islam. You people only think the criminal acts of the law is shariah. NO.
Nothing in the rules guiding Islamic Banking System is non-implementable. If you quite understood the shariah as I tried to explained above no rule is extreme that could be hijacked by anybody.
Extrimism, extrimists etc don't have a place in Islam. You can either be a Muslim or Non-muslim. Westernised, mordern, moderate etc Muslims are coined to deceive people.
You may read the Islam Banking acts and bring forth a deadly clause you think could be dangerous so that we can discuss it together.
Concerning borrowing and making money, your interest as a lender and mine as a borrower is protected because you will be 100% involved on what the money used for and how the profit is shared. This system has been shown to generate more return to the banking system than the conventional one. Everybody's interest is also protected ad economy is not poisoned by unrecovered huge amount which is the reason why many banks and businesses collapse today in Nigeria.

maclatunji:

@bolded, when it comes to Muslims, whatever we achieve is not so great, but if it is the West and maybe Christians for some people, it is the next best thing after the discovery of the wheel. @2nd bolded, you think that you disagree with bogus claims and half-truths all the time but in truth, you do not always do so particularly when it means putting your religion and beliefs you grew-up with in bad light (I know, you disagree with me).

Were ancient Egyptians, Persians, Babylonians and Indians muslims?
Virgo isn't even trying to distort Islamic achievements neither is she fronting the West or Christianity, perhaps you missed the below quote from her -

virgo:

My stand has always been that no religion or race has ever fully developed without copying or borrowing from another one.

Virgo isn't even supporting the West or Christianity. Don't get a heart attack anytime Islam is mentioned abeg.

maclatunji:

One thing you have to understand is that the average Muslim born and bred in Lagos or other parts of the south of Nigeria has in all likelihood been fed with the same dogma that you Christians were fed with from childhood, thanks to our teachers in Primary and secondary school who saw in us an opportunity to evangelize and spread the gospel. We in essence know what you know. However, you know next to nothing about Islamic doctrines, history and culture other than the propaganda that you have been fed with from the west and your not-so-knowledgeable teachers and pastors. Have you ever considered this:

Why do Catholic Popes keep-on looking for ways to engage with Islamic Scholars and leaders? Let me guess, you think it is because they are Holy men of God spreading the sweet love of Jesus to "heathens"? That is a big fallacy, they do so because they know the truth of Islam as the true religion having interacted with Muslims for over 1300 years. However, they are not ready to loose their power and prestige over people like you. They will renounce Islam in public whilst studying and learning from it in private. I know, you disagree but I tell you:

I assume your Islamic teachers "fed you with that dogma from childhood" too.

I pray many Nigerians gets delivered from their beastly method of ignorantly debating issues.
The Islamic Banking is basically a Non-Interest banking system which has it's authority and source derived from the Islamic legislation.
I'm well aware of the fact that the actual mechanism behind the springing up of negative reactions as per the system is the tag 'Islam' it has.
And if I may ask, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?. You call things what they are. You simply don't find another name for a 'Drink' just because of it's bitterness.
That system of Islamic banking solely has it's stipulated theories in the scriptures of Islam.
Enough of the archaic western style of converting (stealing) the works of non-wests, and presenting it to the ignoramus world as their ideologies. They infact, name the works western.
Islam has therefore suffered so much from such smart crimes. And here comes some species from the dark wanting to modify the perfected and standardised theory of Islam.
I speculate that the cause of this kind of Islamophobia is because the critics doesn't have such a well defined economical concept, theory and principle in their various religions.
But I do advice that we stop being Nigerish (Jealous), for many foreign non-Muslim experts have regarded the Islamic system of banking as unmatched and the best in terms of economical advancement.
And there couldn't have been any world economic crush if the world had followed the divine laid down principle.
And besides, the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and specifically, Islamic personal laws.
It should also be brought to your knowledge that Muslims in Nigeria have for long suffered from the injustice of being subjected to a banking system that is not only regarded as a sin, but cursed. (Qur'an: al-Baqarah 2-279)
Nothing therefore compels a non-Muslim to adhere to the strict rulings of the system. Why then the wahala

Law prince:

I pray many Nigerians gets delivered from their beastly method of ignorantly debating issues.
The Islamic Banking is basically a Non-Interest banking system which has it's authority and source derived from the Islamic legislation.
I'm well aware of the fact that the actual mechanism behind the springing up of negative reactions as per the system is the tag 'Islam' it has.
And if I may ask, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?. You call things what they are. You simply don't find another name for a 'Drink' just because of it's bitterness.
That system of Islamic banking solely has it's stipulated theories in the scriptures of Islam.
Enough of the archaic western style of converting (stealing) the works of non-wests, and presenting it to the ignoramus world as their ideologies. They infact, name the works western.
Islam has therefore suffered so much from such smart crimes. And here comes some species from the dark wanting to modify the perfected and standardised theory of Islam.
I speculate that the cause of this kind of Islamophobia is because the critics doesn't have such a well defined economical concept, theory and principle in their various religions.
But I do advice that we stop being Nigerish (Jealous), for many foreign non-Muslim experts have regarded the Islamic system of banking as unmatched and the best in terms of economical advancement.
And there couldn't have been any world economic crush if the world had followed the divine laid down principle.
And besides, the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and specifically, Islamic personal laws.
It should also be brought to your knowledge that Muslims in Nigeria have for long suffered from the injustice of being subjected to a banking system that is not only regarded as a sin, but cursed. (Qur'an: al-Baqarah 2-279)
Nothing therefore compels a non-Muslim to adhere to the strict rulings of the system. Why then the wahala

The ways and manners the verses in the Holy Bible and the Noble Quran ball-rolled the curses on the benefactor and the merchant of interest and its relations, you would expect no one to go against an attempt at correcting the anomaly.

The bitter venom vomiting here could not be as a result of what the Islamic Banking System would bring but the origin of the System-Islam. Quite unfortunate.

somze:

Were ancient Egyptians, Persians, Babylonians and Indians muslims?
Virgo isn't even trying to distort Islamic achievements neither is she fronting the West or Christianity, perhaps you missed the below quote from her -Virgo isn't even supporting the West or Christianity. Don't get a heart attack anytime Islam is mentioned abeg.
I assume your Islamic teachers "fed you with that dogma from childhood" too.

somze:

Were ancient Egyptians, Persians, Babylonians and Indians muslims?
Virgo isn't even trying to distort Islamic achievements neither is she fronting the West or Christianity, perhaps you missed the below quote from her -Virgo isn't even supporting the West or Christianity. Don't get a heart attack anytime Islam is mentioned abeg.
I assume your Islamic teachers "fed you with that dogma from childhood" too.

Dude, you are naive. So you mean as soon as Virgo says something, it is infallible. You cannot even identify sarcasm when you see it. Virgo isn't exposing her ideas at all, she is just playing with the keyboard when she types. Your teachers may feed you with dogma, but you have do your own research. Stop parroting my words. You know it is a fact, I learnt Christianity from Christians, you have never learnt Islam from Muslims and therein lies your problem. We are not operating on the same level and/or frequency.

maclatunji:

Dude, you are naive. So you mean as soon as Virgo says something, it is infallible.

How you coined this from my response is simply beyond me. Perhaps I am naive

maclatunji:

Your teachers may feed you with dogma, but you have do your own research. Stop parroting my words. You know it is a fact, I learnt Christianity from Christians, you have never learnt Islam from Muslims and therein lies your problem.

Once again, how this supports your assertion below is beyond me

maclatunji:

Why do Catholic Popes keep-on looking for ways to engage with Islamic Scholars and leaders? Let me guess, you think it is because they are Holy men of God spreading the sweet love of Jesus to "heathens"? That is a big fallacy, they do so because they know the truth of Islam as the true religion having interacted with Muslims for over 1300 years. However, they are not ready to loose their power and prestige over people like you. They will renounce Islam in public whilst studying and learning from it in private. I know, you disagree but I tell you:

While you deride me for failing to notice your sarcasm, you have failed to see mine when I used your own words. I do not want to go into your quote above as it is not only out of the scope of this thread but unnecessary. However, if you can accuse Lagos (and by implication southern Nigerian) Christians and Muslims of being fed Western dogma and unable to research or decipher on their own, I wonder what teacher (Arabic perhaps) or research led to your conclusion (quote above). I had wanted to use "fed you with that dogma from childhood" for my previous line but hey I am disallowed from "parroting your words".

maclatunji:


@bolded, when it comes to Muslims, whatever we achieve is not so great, but if it is the West and maybe Christians for some people, it is the next best thing after the discovery of the wheel. @2nd bolded, you think that you disagree with bogus claims and half-truths [b]all the time but in truth, you do not always do so particularly when it means putting your religion and beliefs you grew-up with in bad light (I know, you disagree with me).
[/b]
One thing you have to understand is that the average Muslim born and bred in Lagos or other parts of the south of Nigeria has in all likelihood been fed with the same dogma that you Christians were fed with from childhood, thanks to our teachers in Primary and secondary school who saw in us an opportunity to evangelize and spread the gospel. We in essence know what you know. However, you know next to nothing about Islamic doctrines, history and culture other than the propaganda that you have been fed with from the west and your not-so-knowledgeable teachers and pastors. Have you ever considered this:

Why do Catholic Popes keep-on looking for ways to engage with Islamic Scholars and leaders? Let me guess, you think it is because they are Holy men of God spreading the sweet love of Jesus to "heathens"? That is a big fallacy, they do so because they know the truth of Islam as the true religion having interacted with Muslims for over 1300 years. However, they are not ready to loose their power and prestige over people like you. They will renounce Islam in public whilst studying and learning from it in private. I know, you disagree but I tell you:

[i]The key is inside you to open your mind
The truth is out there, your heart can't be blind
Open your eyes and open your mind
Open your thoughts
Don't stay behind
[/i]
***Many thanks to Nescafe for providing the inspiration***

Wow! I cannot even begin to say how horrified I am by your complete and shameless bigotry laced with acute ignorance. *Sigh*

First of all, I don't have respect for people who find it difficult to listen or in this case read the words of another party carefully before jumping the gun. Not only have you become sentimental, you seem incapable of getting your message across without falling into some religious hissy fit. And all for nothing!

Now if you ever, I mean ever, sat back and read my posts, I merely corrected your wrong Assertions about Arabs teaching Rome accounting. While you made the intelligent error of presenting a Persian scholar as an Arab without stating for a fact that he was inspired by Hindu mathematics, I reached out to correct you to avoid your mis-educating innocent folks. My dear friend, I did not come here to get into some pointless argument about religion. I am tired of simple minded people.

Also, let me address the highlighted words in your post,

Highlighted 1- Wrong! No religion, or race has a monopoly of knowledge. No need to start bawling like a baby! Eishh,

Highlighted 2- You make it difficult for me to understand your argument.

Highlighted 3- Why do some Muslims always take this route of "you don't understand Islam"? I have read the English version of the Koran and the Hadiths. Or you don't think English is good enough to convey G-d's message? However difficult it might be for you, try to refrain from making wrong assumptions. Fact remains that in this day and age, you can get any information if you want. And secondly, it is funny how you got so defensive to the point of using words like "not so knowledgeable teachers and pastors. How typical!

Highlighted 4- LOL! You are so naive.  Never trust "holy men" sweetheart. For all you know they could be laughing at us simple folks following religion while they sodomize little boys, sleep with European love-peddlers, watch pornographic flicks and clink their bubbly glasses of champagne whenever they have their secret meetings.

Highlighted 5-  . LOL! Whatever rocks your boat sweetheart.

Highlighted 6- Seems the only person hypnotized by religious tricks here is you. Leave me out of your slumber party,

Highlighted 7- Try repeating those lines like a mantra every morning. You stand a better chance of gaining from them.



In a nutshell, NO RELIGION IS PURE! What started as a search for G-d has led to serious brainwashing and division of the human race. I am spiritual sir, I am just not religious. I might be a Christian but I am not blind to religious abracadabra or politics. Next time, you might want to be a lot less sentimental about this religion issue. Truth hurts, but until we face it and realize that we have a common enemy, we (black Africans) will continue to fight a war that does not concern us.

maclatunji:

Dude, you are naive. So you mean as soon as Virgo says something, it is infallible. You cannot even identify sarcasm when you see it. Virgo isn't exposing her ideas at all, she is just playing with the keyboard when she types. Your teachers may feed you with dogma, but you have do your own research. Stop parroting my words. You know it is a fact, I learnt Christianity from Christians, you have never learnt Islam from Muslims and therein lies your problem. We are not operating on the same level and/or frequency.

How childish and uncouth! Who said everything I say is infallible? You have a right to disagree, no need to resort to insults. However allow me to point that I am not only a lawyer, I have written not one, two or three articles in a major newspaper in this country. I have a published book and have edited two published books. So if in your opinion, you are the best brain on planet earth. Hey, it is your opinion, you are entitled to it, no matter how deluded it might be. Peace!

Two things Brother maclatunji

1. That laughing was a joke to bring some humor into this discussion. Don't be so serious.
2. There is absolutely no issue of jealousy. Definitions for your enjoyment:
Just: Based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair. 
Equity: The quality of being fair and impartial: "equity of treatment".
Properpty Right: Laws created by governments in regards to how individuals can control, benefit from and transfer property. Economic theory contends that government enforcement of strong property rights is a determinant regarding the level of economic success seen in the area. Individuals will create new forms of property to generate wealth, only when they are assured that their rights to their property will protect them against unjust and/or unlawful actions by other parties.  

The bolded part of the last definition is precisely the problem with Nigeria. Property rights are not recognized - each Tom, manliness and Harry is cutting a piece of the pie regardless of whether it belongs to them or not.

Bottom-line, muslims and non-muslims have equal property rights to Nigeria's resources. Muslims getting the FG to pay for their Hajj is not an achievement that anybody is jealous of. It is however, an unfair, unjust and non-equitable use of our joint property, since non-muslims cannot go to Hajj. Non-muslims are justified to demand their rights to equal share of the property in question, since the FG now is in the business of religious tourism.

My 2-pence. Peace!

maclatunji:

You just admitted it in your posts (inadvertently) that it is jealousy and kenimani that is disturbing you. So you think because I agree with ekt bear that government expenses on pilgrimage is wasteful, he has one on me (laughing). You see that is not what I wanted to achieve when I introduced that argument, I anticipated that he or someone else would go there (I read my opponents moves before they make them). I just wanted to establish that it is envy that motivates you folks and maybe fear. Another case-in-point is the demand by CAN for the removal of Arabic from 20, 10 and 5 Naira notes. Don't deny it, admit it and we will take you as you are.

@bolded, when it comes to Muslims, whatever we achieve is not so great, but if it is the West and maybe Christians for some people, it is the next best thing after the discovery of the wheel. @2nd bolded, you think that you disagree with bogus claims and half-truths all the time but in truth, you do not always do so particularly when it means putting your religion and beliefs you grew-up with in bad light (I know, you disagree with me).

One thing you have to understand is that the average Muslim born and bred in Lagos or other parts of the south of Nigeria has in all likelihood been fed with the same dogma that you Christians were fed with from childhood, thanks to our teachers in Primary and secondary school who saw in us an opportunity to evangelize and spread the gospel. We in essence know what you know. However, you know next to nothing about Islamic doctrines, history and culture other than the propaganda that you have been fed with from the west and your not-so-knowledgeable teachers and pastors. Have you ever considered this:

Why do Catholic Popes keep-on looking for ways to engage with Islamic Scholars and leaders? Let me guess, you think it is because they are Holy men of God spreading the sweet love of Jesus to "heathens"? That is a big fallacy, they do so because they know the truth of Islam as the true religion having interacted with Muslims for over 1300 years. However, they are not ready to loose their power and prestige over people like you. They will renounce Islam in public whilst studying and learning from it in private. I know, you disagree but I tell you:

The key is inside you to open your mind
The truth is out there, your heart can't be blind
Open your eyes and open your mind
Open your thoughts
Don't stay behind

***Many thanks to Nescafe for providing the inspiration***

@maclatunji, ndu_chuks, Law prince
You guys have opened my eyes. It seems no matter how clearly written the objection is, you prefer to hide behind your one finger believing what you want to believe.

Look, as ziccoit admitted NIFI is not the same as what Sanusi is promoting with his "Sharia Compliant" clause. It is the "Sharia-Compliant" clause that makes this banking religious. Otherwise, NIFI is for all intents and purposes, Joint Venture Banking.

@ziccoit
Don't tell me NIFI has religious implications just because it is associated with Islamic Banking. As stated above in NIFI form, which is the form practiced in most countries, it is Joint Venture Banking. Such types of banking did not start with Islam and will not end with Islam.

You decieve yourself if you do not see the danger that I am pointing to. Just in case you are still not clear - I am suggesting to you that 10 years, 20 years down the line, your Sharia-Compliant clause is going to be interpreted by some illiterate in some remote corner of Nigeria. The slogan that will come out of it is so close to home for many lives that are being lost in Borno and gradually extending to other states - it will be "Convential Banking" Haram. The problem is being so illiterate and given to violence this group of people would not go to the courts they will indiscriminately start bombing out people. There you have it spelt out.

@all of you
Reasonable countries around the world realize the danger in going to the religious end of Islamic Banking by restricting themselves to its NIFI part. I have provided a good compromise above just in case you guys insist on having your "religious" Islamic Bank. The CBN allows both NIFI and your form of Islamic Bank - and banks can decide which one they want to engage in. That way all of you here can have your "Islamic Legislation" banking, while the rest of us can engage in non-interest banking.

Finally, since I have had to repeat myself so much [size=14pt]here is the part of Sanusi's "NIFI" that is so religious as to be dangerous [/size] - it was already in the article, and it seems you guys never bordered to read it:

The Glossary of Terms of the CBN’s NIFI Framework states that:
Shariah Principles refer to “the divine guidance as given by the Holy Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet and embodies all aspects of the Islamic faith, including beliefs and practices”.

NON-PERMISSIBLE TRANSACTIONS:
Interest;
Uncertainty or ambiguity relating to the subject matter, terms or conditions;
Gambling;
Speculation;
Unjust enrichment;
Exploitation/unfair trade practices;
Dealings in pork, alcohol, arms & ammunition, indecency and;
Other transactions, products, goods or services, which are not compliant with Shariah rules and principles.

[size=14pt]And of course here is the CBN governor hiding behind one finger on the pages of the newspaper. [/size] They need to sue the CBN as planned so he can tell the whole world whether somebody inserted the above without his knowledge:

Nothing illegal about Islamic banking, Sanusi insists http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Money/5704980-147/nothing_illegal_about_islamic_banking_sanusi.csp
By Bassey Udo
May 26, 2011 01:31AM

Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) governor, Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, insists the controversy that has continued to trail the proposed introduction of Islamic banking in the country was unnecessary, as the apex banking is doing nothing that is illegal.

Mr Sanusi, who was answering reporters' questions in Abuja, said Islamic banking has nothing to do with promoting religion or any belief, but another financial product or on-interest banking designed to diversify and broaden the scope of banking service to customers.

"There is nothing called Sharia banking. There is non-interest banking or Islamic banking, which is a financial product all over the world. This is the only country in the world that I know that Islamic banking is being seen as a religious issue. But this view is being held by the minority. There is nothing illegal about it. The BOFIA (Banks and Other Financial Institutions Act) law was amended specifically to allow for it," he said.

The governor was reacting to allegations that a section of the banking industry are against the proposed policy on grounds that it is illegal, as it not only violates the provisions of the law requiring those interested in establishing such a bank to be Sharia compliant, but also undermines the secular nature of the country.

No complicity

Tracing the history of the policy to the administration of his predecessor, Chukwuma Soludo, in March 2009, Mr Sanusi exonerated himself of any complicity to Islamise the country's banking system through the policy, arguing that if there was any plan to do so, he should not be held responsible, as he merely inherited it.

"The circular requiring anyone interested in setting up an Islamic Bank was first issued in March 2009, by the present deputy governor, Tunde Lemo, a reverend; and the (CBN) governor then was called Professor Charles Chukwuma Soludo.

" At the time I became governor, that circular was already out there collating inputs from the general public, and was finally put together by the director, financial policy and regulation, whose name is Christian Chukwu. So, if there is a grand process for Islamisation of the banking sector, then it started with Professor Charles Soludo, Reverend Tunde Lemo, and Mr Christian Chukwu.

"Islamic banking is a financial product. If one goes to England, one would see the Islamic Bank of Britain out there on the streets. Citi Bank, Standard Chartered and HSBC all sell Islamic Banking. HSBC even has an Islamic banking called Amana. It is a product all over the world. South Africa has Islamic Bank," Mr Sanusi further said.

According to the governor, the section in BOFIA that people misunderstand has to do with the requirement for a written approval of the CBN governor for anyone interested in setting up one's bank using Islam or Sharia in the bank's name, pointing out that the CBN has no doubt that it is doing the right thing, as it is "diversifying the economy and broadening the reach of product offering to customers in the country."

Since the announcement of the proposal, critics have continued to condemn it, claiming the introduction of the policy is not only unconstitutional and capable of causing religious acrimony in the country, but also potentially harmful to the country's economy.

Legislative backing

One of such critics, who is the group managing director, Pharez Nigeria Limited, Eghes Eyieyien, recently said "it is rather inauspicious and even insensitive for the CBN to deem the introduction of Shariah banking a priority at this time, especially when the constitutional and legislative footing for it is non-existent."

According to Mr Eyieyien, "Nigeria does not have to implement the model of non-Interest banking being practised in Islamic countries and by Muslims in the West," pointing out that the CBN should rather apply itself innovatively to develop the business and enact regulations and prudential guidelines that are not religion-specific.

He described Islamic banking in Nigeria as a worrisome development since BOFIA 1991 (as amended) has already made provisions for non-interest banking in the country, and not as "Shariah-compliant" banking.

He said there is no provision in the BOFIA that approves Sharia banking, as it stipulates that: "Except with the written consent of the Governor (a) no bank shall, as from the commencement of this Decree, be registered or incorporated with a name, which includes the words "Central" "Federal," "Federation," "National", "Nigeria", "Reserve", "State", Christian", "Islamic", "Moslem", "Quaranic", "Biblical".

Law prince:

I pray many Nigerians gets delivered from their beastly method of ignorantly debating issues.
The Islamic Banking is basically a Non-Interest banking system which has it's authority and source derived from the Islamic legislation.
I'm well aware of the fact that the actual mechanism behind the springing up of negative reactions as per the system is the tag 'Islam' it has.
And if I may ask, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?. You call things what they are. You simply don't find another name for a 'Drink' just because of it's bitterness.
That system of Islamic banking solely has it's stipulated theories in the scriptures of Islam.
Enough of the archaic western style of converting (stealing) the works of non-wests, and presenting it to the ignoramus world as their ideologies. They infact, name the works western.
Islam has therefore suffered so much from such smart crimes. And here comes some species from the dark wanting to modify the perfected and standardised theory of Islam.
I speculate that the cause of this kind of Islamophobia is because the critics doesn't have such a well defined economical concept, theory and principle in their various religions.
But I do advice that we stop being Nigerish (Jealous), for many foreign non-Muslim experts have regarded the Islamic system of banking as unmatched and the best in terms of economical advancement.
And there couldn't have been any world economic crush if the world had followed the divine laid down principle.
And besides, the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and specifically, Islamic personal laws.
It should also be brought to your knowledge that Muslims in Nigeria have for long suffered from the injustice of being subjected to a banking system that is not only regarded as a sin, but cursed. (Qur'an: al-Baqarah 2-279)
Nothing therefore compels a non-Muslim to adhere to the strict rulings of the system. Why then the wahala

@Law prince
This is actually a bunch of crap. Why are you guys going for words like "jealous", etc?

You guys are not doing justice to your religion, which should be your private business, by attempting to claim it is the best thing since before sliced bread in every matter under the sun. In the 7th/8th century may be, but not in the 21st.

Just hear yourself: "I speculate that the cause of this kind of Islamophobia is because the critics doesn't have such a well defined economical concept, theory and principle in their various religions."

SMHV!!!

Law prince:

I pray many Nigerians gets delivered from their beastly method of ignorantly debating issues.
The Islamic Banking is basically a Non-Interest banking system which has it's authority and source derived from the Islamic legislation.
I'm well aware of the fact that the actual mechanism behind the springing up of negative reactions as per the system is the tag 'Islam' it has.
And if I may ask, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT?. You call things what they are. You simply don't find another name for a 'Drink' just because of it's bitterness.
That system of Islamic banking solely has it's stipulated theories in the scriptures of Islam.
Enough of the archaic western style of converting (stealing) the works of non-wests, and presenting it to the ignoramus world as their ideologies. They infact, name the works western.
Islam has therefore suffered so much from such smart crimes. And here comes some species from the dark wanting to modify the perfected and standardised theory of Islam.
I speculate that the cause of this kind of Islamophobia is because the critics doesn't have such a well defined economical concept, theory and principle in their various religions.
But I do advice that we stop being Nigerish (Jealous), for many foreign non-Muslim experts have regarded the Islamic system of banking as unmatched and the best in terms of economical advancement.
And there couldn't have been any world economic crush if the world had followed the divine laid down principle.
And besides, the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and specifically, Islamic personal laws.
It should also be brought to your knowledge that Muslims in Nigeria have for long suffered from the injustice of being subjected to a banking system that is not only regarded as a sin, but cursed. (Qur'an: al-Baqarah 2-279)
Nothing therefore compels a non-Muslim to adhere to the strict rulings of the system. Why then the wahala

@ziccoit
You actually made me laugh with this assertion "Nothing in the rules guiding Islamic Banking System is non-implementable. If you quite understood the shariah as I tried to explained above no rule is extreme that could be hijacked by anybody".

First, there is no law that has ever been made that some human has not broken without punishment.

Second, you need to talk to the CBN governor himself because he once wrote a piece about Sharia and related a story that showed that even Sharia cannot be held on to all the time. I can't remember it quite clearly now, but it has to do with someone climbing over the fence of another to enforce Sharia law. He was told in no uncertain terms that he went beyond limit. And you don't need to look far -muslims are just as corrupt as non-muslims, in Nigeria or anywhere else.

I have given you the clearest example of how this could be dangerous down the line in another post.

ziccoit:

Well, I don't go by your assertion that NIFI doesn't have religion undertone. Nothing in human thinking would like to have a taste of that without a push fron the religion. NIFI is only picked out of the myriads of opportunities set down by religion in our bid to circumvent GOD.
Reading through your comment made me understood you have a definition for shariah which is at variant with what Islam gives. Shariah is the totality of ways and manners a Muslim should spend his life before he is born through life to right after death in accordance with the stipulated rules and regulations as define by Islam. You people only think the criminal acts of the law is shariah. NO.
Nothing in the rules guiding Islamic Banking System is non-implementable. If you quite understood the shariah as I tried to explained above no rule is extreme that could be hijacked by anybody.
Extrimism, extrimists etc don't have a place in Islam. You can either be a Muslim or Non-muslim. Westernised, mordern, moderate etc Muslims are coined to deceive people.
You may read the Islam Banking acts and bring forth a deadly clause you think could be dangerous so that we can discuss it together.
Concerning borrowing and making money, your interest as a lender and mine as a borrower is protected because you will be 100% involved on what the money used for and how the profit is shared. This system has been shown to generate more return to the banking system than the conventional one. Everybody's interest is also protected ad economy is not poisoned by unrecovered huge amount which is the reason why many banks and businesses collapse today in Nigeria.

deleted

koruji:

Two things Brother maclatunji

1. That laughing was a joke to bring some humor into this discussion. Don't be so serious.
2. There is absolutely no issue of jealousy. Definitions for your enjoyment:
Just: Based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair. 
Equity: The quality of being fair and impartial: "equity of treatment".
Properpty Right: Laws created by governments in regards to how individuals can control, benefit from and transfer property. Economic theory contends that government enforcement of strong property rights is a determinant regarding the level of economic success seen in the area. Individuals will create new forms of property to generate wealth, only when they are assured that their rights to their property will protect them against unjust and/or unlawful actions by other parties.  

The bolded part of the last definition is precisely the problem with Nigeria. Property rights are not recognized - each Tom, manliness and Harry is cutting a piece of the pie regardless of whether it belongs to them or not.

Bottom-line, muslims and non-muslims have equal property rights to Nigeria's resources. Muslims getting the FG to pay for their Hajj is not an achievement that anybody is jealous of. It is however, an unfair, unjust and non-equitable use of our joint property, since non-muslims cannot go to Hajj. Non-muslims are justified to demand their rights to equal share of the property in question, since the FG now is in the business of religious tourism.

My 2-pence. Peace!

Well, I initially didn't want to enter into this discussion since I have not been directly addressed. I think I have some points to make clearer.
It is totally wrong for a government to use public fund to sponsor any religion group to a pilgrimage. I have never seen/heard a anything related to this being endorsed in the teachings of Islam. Those that do it, are doing so just to advance their political domination and interest. Be that as it may, the way the Nigerian government at Local, State and the Federal are using the public fund to sponsor people on Hajj is the same way they are sponsoring people to Jerusalem, sponsoring Eyo festival, Osun Osogbo festival etc. I am not justifying anything. I am putting the record straight so that the feeble minded would not be going about with wrong information.

I know how much of my Local and State governments' fund going down the drain on this useless pursuits. It's not as if only Muslims are beneficiaries. NO!

koruji:

@ziccoit
You actually made me laugh with this assertion "Nothing in the rules guiding Islamic Banking System is non-implementable. If you quite understood the shariah as I tried to explained above no rule is extreme that could be hijacked by anybody".

First, there is no law that has ever been made that some human has not broken without punishment.

Second, you need to talk to the CBN governor himself because he once wrote a piece about Sharia and related a story that showed that even Sharia cannot be held on to all the time. I can't remember it quite clearly now, but it has to do with someone climbing over the fence of another to enforce Sharia law. He was told in no uncertain terms that he went beyond limit. And you don't need to look far -muslims are just as corrupt as non-muslims, in Nigeria or anywhere else.

I have given you the clearest example of how this could be dangerous down the line in another post.

Okay, everyone has right to his opinion no matter how weird. We all have our inner reasons for supporting or going against a policy. All in all, I stand by my points until a superior argument that is worthy of consideration later surfaces.

virgo:


Wow! I cannot even begin to say how horrified I am by your complete and shameless bigotry laced with acute ignorance. *Sigh*

First of all, I don't have respect for people who find it difficult to listen or in this case read the words of another party carefully before jumping the gun. Not only have you become sentimental, you seem incapable of getting your message across without falling into some religious hissy fit. And all for nothing!

Now if you ever, I mean ever, sat back and read my posts, I merely corrected your wrong Assertions about Arabs teaching Rome accounting. While you made the intelligent error of presenting a Persian scholar as an Arab without stating for a fact that he was inspired by Hindu mathematics, I reached out to correct you to avoid your mis-educating innocent folks. My dear friend, I did not come here to get into some pointless argument about religion. I am tired of simple minded people.

Also, let me address the highlighted words in your post,

Highlighted 1- Wrong! No religion, or race has a monopoly of knowledge. No need to start bawling like a baby! Eishh,

Highlighted 2- You make it difficult for me to understand your argument.

Highlighted 3- Why do some Muslims always take this route of "you don't understand Islam"? I have read the English version of the Koran and the Hadiths. Or you don't think English is good enough to convey G-d's message? However difficult it might be for you, try to refrain from making wrong assumptions. Fact remains that in this day and age, you can get any information if you want. And secondly, it is funny how you got so defensive to the point of using words like "not so knowledgeable teachers and pastors. How typical!

Highlighted 4- LOL! You are so naive.  Never trust "holy men" sweetheart. For all you know they could be laughing at us simple folks following religion while they sodomize little boys, sleep with European love-peddlers, watch pornographic flicks and clink their bubbly glasses of champagne whenever they have their secret meetings.

Highlighted 5-  . LOL! Whatever rocks your boat sweetheart.

Highlighted 6- Seems the only person hypnotized by religious tricks here is you. Leave me out of your slumber party,

Highlighted 7- Try repeating those lines like a mantra every morning. You stand a better chance of gaining from them.



In a nutshell, NO RELIGION IS PURE! What started as a search for G-d has led to serious brainwashing and division of the human race. I am spiritual sir, I am just not religious. I might be a Christian but I am not blind to religious abracadabra or politics. Next time, you might want to be a lot less sentimental about this religion issue. Truth hurts, but until we face it and realize that we have a common enemy, we (black Africans) will continue to fight a war that does not concern us.



How childish and uncouth! Who said everything I say is infallible? You have a right to disagree, no need to resort to insults. However allow me to point that I am not only a lawyer, I have written not one, two or three articles in a major newspaper in this country. I have a published book and have edited two published books. So if in your opinion, you are the best brain on planet earth. Hey, it is your opinion, you are entitled to it, no matter how deluded it might be. Peace!

What makes you think I am angry, if you are angry, I know for sure that I am not. About the Persian, you have little understanding of what you speak of. So, if I say the Roman Catholic Church tried Galileo for his beliefs that means that each and every member of the church at that time was from Rome according to your logic. Al-Khwarizmi was ethnically Persian but for the sake of his scholarship, beliefs and exposition I can and will classify him under the banner of Arab Muslims anytime I see fit. Pope Benedict XVI is the Head of the Vatican, does his being German-born remove anything from him and the Catholic Church, obviously no. So just drop that point (I cannot begin to explain every little detail to you, haba!).

Who said any religion or race has monopoly of knowledge. We are only telling you not to hate but appreciate Islam. The only people becoming paranoid here are you folks that are screaming just because the CBN wants to implement Islamic Banking and it has not lied to you about it by inserting the Sharia-Compliance clause in its regulations.

About you reading the Qur'an I am sure you have but you cannot get a true understanding until you allow those that practice and have knowledge of the religion teach you. Thereafter, you can compare what you have privately studied and what you have been taught. If you want to learn French, go to the French irrespective of the fact that it is spoken elsewhere.

If I say Christian leaders are not-so-knowledgeable about Islam, I am correct and I am not apologetic about that. I told you, we did Christian Religious Knowledge in School. In fact, I was top of my class in that subject in primary school (of course my christian teachers were delighted). So go and relax and stop being slightly rude, let us debate not fight. Virgo, have you ever been top of any Islamic knowledge class? (I seriously doubt ).

Now breathe-in and out and let go of all of that negative energy.

koruji:

@ziccoit
You actually made me laugh with this assertion "Nothing in the rules guiding Islamic Banking System is non-implementable. If you quite understood the shariah as I tried to explained above no rule is extreme that could be hijacked by anybody".

First, there is no law that has ever been made that some human has not broken without punishment.

Second, you need to talk to the CBN governor himself because he once wrote a piece about Sharia and related a story that showed that even Sharia cannot be held on to all the time. I can't remember it quite clearly now, but it has to do with someone climbing over the fence of another to enforce Sharia law. He was told in no uncertain terms that he went beyond limit. And you don't need to look far -muslims are just as corrupt as non-muslims, in Nigeria or anywhere else.

I have given you the clearest example of how this could be dangerous down the line in another post.

What you fail to understand is that, even that rule is part of the Sharia law, you cannot invade people's privacy to obtain evidence. You folks are trying but I am afraid you are not exposed enough to argue effectively on the subject matter.

@Virgo, no doubt you are intelligent and knowledgeable but your anger beclouds your thoughts many times. Study more about Islamic banking and other concepts before castigating them. We have said it before, you can go to conventional banks- they will still remain the major part of our financial system. Leave the Sharia compliance for those of us that are willing and able to conform with it. You bolded my poem as part of my "Bigotry", abi? (You could at least have commended the creativity ).

Islam is pure, Muslims may not always be (that is because we are human). Some of us just try to be the next-best-thing to pure.

@Virgo, somebody said being a lawyer is not a big deal, in some places you do not even need to have a credit in Maths to become one.

YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY! I now have a Lawyer I can run to for Pro bono services whenever I need one, or you will not help me out because of my "stupidity+bigotry"? 

Can I get free copies of your books and links to your articles? We might not agree on this subject, but we can agree on other issues or is that not true?

The Glossary of Terms of the CBN’s NIFI Framework states that:
Shariah Principles refer to “the divine guidance as given by the Holy Qur’an and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet and embodies all aspects of the Islamic faith, including beliefs and practices”.

NON-PERMISSIBLE TRANSACTIONS:
Interest;
Uncertainty or ambiguity relating to the subject matter, terms or conditions;
Gambling;
Speculation;
Unjust enrichment;
Exploitation/unfair trade practices;
Dealings in pork, alcohol, arms & ammunition, indecency and;
Other transactions, products, goods or services, which are not compliant with Shariah rules and principles.

So any one who plies his/her trade in pork or alcohol or whatever the Islamic Board considers as Unjust enrichment can not take loans or do business with this bank 

Sanusi should be sacked . . . enough of bigotry.

somze:

So any one who plies his/her trade in pork or alcohol or whatever the Islamic Board considers as Unjust enrichment can not take loans or do business with this bank 

Sanusi should be sacked . . . enough of bigotry.

@Bolded, that is the whole idea.

You want to sack the Global Central Banker of the Year! https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-586544.0.html

Now, you really ought to be ashamed of yourself. Go and edit that naughty post at once!

If you are not ashamed of some of your earlier posts on this issue then I don't know what will touch you. So if I sell alcohol or pork meat I can't save or collect loan from a Nigerian Bank supported by my tax Ridiculous.

Obama won the Noble price and Soludo also won awards mind you. Perhaps anyone that wins an award should be deemed infallible.

somze:

If you are not ashamed of some of your earlier posts on this issue then I don't know what will touch you.  So if I sell alcohol or pork meat I can't save or collect loan from a Nigerian Bank supported by my tax Ridiculous.

Obama won the Noble price and Soludo also won awards mind you. Perhaps anyone that wins an award should be deemed infallible.

@bolded, which bank? Is the Central Bank of Nigeria now a commercial bank? Who is asking for your tax money to establish or run an Islamic bank? The global Central Banker of the Year may not be infallible on many issues but the person that will point-out such errors would have at least an SSCE level understanding of Economics. Judging from your post, you do not even have that.

Oga what supervisory bank is proposing this service? Does CBN need legal accent? Whose tax payer's money keep CBN and these legal structures afloat? If an Economic crisis hits such banks as it did it's commercial counterparts is CBN/Amcon allowed to intervene, nationalize the bank and provide protection for deposits

My friend gerrout dia.

somze:

Oga what supervisory bank is proposing this service? Does CBN need legal accent? Whose tax payer's money keep CBN and these legal structures afloat? If an Economic crisis hits such banks as it did it's commercial counterparts is CBN/Amcon allowed to intervene, nationalize the bank and provide protection for deposits

My friend gerrout dia.

Those are the questions you should be asking not saying that the CBN Governor should be sacked. A bailout for Islamic banks would be highly unlikely because they wouldn't go about creating financial instruments that are noting more than pieces of worthless paper. Secondly, they have a profit and loss sharing outlook. Collecting a bailout from the CBN would involve some sort of interest (according to the sharia). Seriously speaking, I doubt if such would be welcome if we want to be sincere. The idea is that the Islamic bank is willing to enjoy the profits when they come and take the losses when they arrive (it is all within the divine will of God).

If you had asked those questions first, you would have been objective, but asking them after seeking for the sack of the CBN Governor shows that you are biased.

koruji:

@ziccoit
You actually made me laugh with this assertion "Nothing in the rules guiding Islamic Banking System is non-implementable. If you quite understood the shariah as I tried to explained above no rule is extreme that could be hijacked by anybody".

First, there is no law that has ever been made that some human has not broken without punishment.

Second, you need to talk to the CBN governor himself because he once wrote a piece about Sharia and related a story that showed that even Sharia cannot be held on to all the time. I can't remember it quite clearly now, but it has to do with someone climbing over the fence of another to enforce Sharia law. He was told in no uncertain terms that he went beyond limit. And you don't need to look far -muslims are just as corrupt as non-muslims, in Nigeria or anywhere else.

I have given you the clearest example of how this could be dangerous down the line in another post.

When i first heard a rumor that this 'Lamido' guy was preparing himself to be the Sultan one day,i waved it away with one hand but right now that rumor might hold some water after all.How else do you explain his purported actions on the above and has the nerve to defend the 'sharia-compliant' clause in the pre-requisite for running the so-called NIFI   Sanusi i believe your time is far well spent and you should take a smart bow out of there before a 'bow' hits you from behind.

maclatunji:

Those are the questions you should be asking not saying that the CBN Governor should be sacked. A bailout for Islamic banks would be highly unlikely because they wouldn't go about creating financial instruments that are noting more than pieces of worthless paper. Secondly, they have a profit and loss sharing outlook. Collecting a bailout from the CBN would involve some sort of interest (according to the sharia). Seriously speaking, I doubt if such would be welcome if we want to be sincere. The idea is that the Islamic bank is willing to enjoy the profits when they come and take the losses when they arrive (it is all within the divine will of God).

If you had asked those questions first, you would have been objective, but asking them after seeking for the sack of the CBN Governor shows that you are biased.

Of course I am biased. If that means I want to be able to get interest-free loans for my legal business without ambiguous or complicated stumbling blocks like Sharia-Compliant rules. Pork ko, alcohol ni.

somze:

Of course I am biased. If that means I want to be able to get interest-free loans for my legal business without ambiguous or complicated stumbling blocks like Sharia-Compliant rules. Pork ko, alcohol ni.

Very Good, you have owned-up, something that others here have failed to do (highly commendable). The question for you is: Have you exhausted all loan facilities with conventional banks? As for Islamic banking and their Sharia-compliance requirement; I ask you- Why you dey vex? Is it your money?

maclatunji:

What makes you think I am angry, if you are angry, I know for sure that I am not. About the Persian, you have little understanding of what you speak of. So, if I say the Roman Catholic Church tried Galileo for his beliefs that means that each and every member of the church at that time was from Rome according to your logic. [b]Al-Khwarizmi was ethnically Persian but for the sake of his scholarship, beliefs and exposition I can and will classify him under the banner of Arab Muslims anytime I see fit. Pope Benedict XVI is the Head of the Vatican, does his being German-born remove anything from him and the Catholic Church, obviously no[/b]. So just drop that point (I cannot begin to explain every little detail to you, haba!).

Who said any religion or race has monopoly of knowledge. We are only telling you not to hate but appreciate Islam. The only people becoming paranoid here are you folks that are screaming just because the CBN wants to implement Islamic Banking and it has not lied to you about it by inserting the Sharia-Compliance clause in its regulations.

About you reading the Qur'an I am sure you have but you cannot get a true understanding until you allow those that practice and have knowledge of the religion teach you. Thereafter, you can compare what you have privately studied and what you have been taught. If you want to learn French, go to the French irrespective of the fact that it is spoken elsewhere.

If I say Christian leaders are not-so-knowledgeable about Islam, I am correct and I am not apologetic about that. I told you, we did Christian Religious Knowledge in School. In fact, I was top of my class in that subject in primary school (of course my christian teachers were delighted). So go and relax and stop being slightly rude, let us debate not fight. Virgo, have you ever been top of any Islamic knowledge class? (I seriously doubt ).

Now breathe-in and out and let go of all of that negative energy.
What you fail to understand is that, even that rule is part of the Sharia law, you cannot invade people's privacy to obtain evidence. You folks are trying but I am afraid you are not exposed enough to argue effectively on the subject matter.

@Virgo, no doubt you are intelligent and knowledgeable but your anger beclouds your thoughts many times. Study more about Islamic banking and other concepts before castigating them. We have said it before, you can go to conventional banks- they will still remain the major part of our financial system. Leave the Sharia compliance for those of us that are willing and able to conform with it. You bolded my poem as part of my [b]"Bigotry", abi? (You could at least have commended the creativity ).[/b]

Islam is pure, Muslims may not always be (that is because we are human). Some of us just try to be the next-best-thing to pure.

maclatunji link=topic=673270.msg8395547#msg8395547 da


1- Most religious fanatics tend to be very angry people. But like you said you are not angry, so niiice

2- Your arrogance is almost interesting,   

3- I guess in that vein, it is safe to classify you as an Arab Muslim . Secondly, you didn't hear me classifying the pope as a Roman or an Italian just  because he has Roman catholic beliefs. Your point?

4- Eish, , stop whipping sentiments over nothing. So everyone that questions the actions of a Muslim automatically hates Islam or suffers from Islamophobia? And people airing their opposing views now mean they are paranoid? Why are you people so sensitive to criticism?

5-  . Wow! I'm impressed! So I guess your primary school knowledge of Christianity qualifies you to be sooo knowledgeable about the religion. Lol. At least I read the Koran as an adult and not under the supervision of a primary school teacher.

6- Lol! Ok shrink. Your hypnosis works like magic, NOT!

7-   Anger? I'm the one who couldn't care less about religion here. Seriously?, 

8- Oh oh, I told you to read and understand your poem yourself. Had no idea it was addressing bigotry. Talk of a classic case of back to sender. LOL

9- Like I said, anything that rocks your boat sweetie. All religions make the same claim and yet have to spill blood to please God. But so long as it makes you happy and fulfilled, who are we to judge?


[quote author=maclatunji:

@Virgo, somebody said being a lawyer is not a big deal, in some places you do not even need to have a credit in Maths to become one.

YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY! I now have a Lawyer I can run to for Pro bono services whenever I need one, or you will not help me out because of my "stupidity+bigotry"? 

Can I get free copies of your books and links to your articles? We might not agree on this subject, but we can agree on other issues or is that not true?

LOL. So maths is what you use to qualify a profession? Interesting,

Pro bono ke? When did Nigeria get so developed that Lawyers offer pro bono services. Even the ones sponsored by the govt will bodily waive pro bono the moment it is mentioned. As for calling yourself silly and bigoted. Please go easy on yourself. No need to use such unflattering words on yourself.

You want free copies of my book, ko? Don't worry, wait. I'll send it to you on December 24th 2012. If those damn Mayans manage to be right, don't blame me. Well, I doubt the Guardian website can retrieve my articles for you. I post on my FB page as soon as they come out. Also, you are not very rational in your arguments. Doubt I want to do this often.

Vatican offers Islamic finance system to Western Banks

The Vatican offered Islamic finance principles to Western banks as a solution for worldwide economic crisis.

Daily Vatican newspaper, 'L'Osservatore Romano, reported that Islamic banking system may help to overcome global crisis, Turkish media reported.
The Vatican said banks should look at the ethical rules of Islamic finance to restore confidence amongst their clients at a time of global economic crisis.

"The ethical principles on which Islamic finance is based may bring banks closer to their clients and to the true spirit which should mark every financial service," the Vatican's official newspaper Osservatore Romano said in an article in its latest issue late yesterday.

Author Loretta Napoleoni and Abaxbank Spa fixed income strategist, Claudia Segre, say in the article that "Western banks could use tools such as the Islamic bonds, known as sukuk, as collateral". Sukuk may be used to fund the "'car industry or the next Olympic Games in London," they said.

They also said that profit share, gained from sukuk, may be an alternative to the interest. They underlined that sukuk system could help automotive sector and support investments in infrastructure area.

Islamic sukuk system is similar to bonos of capitalist system. But in sukuk, money is invested concrete projects and profit share is distributed to clients instead of interest earned.

Pope Benedict XVI in an Oct. 7 speech reflected on crashing financial markets saying that "money vanishes, it is nothing" and concluded that "the only solid reality is the word of God." The Vatican has been paying attention to the global financial meltdown and ran articles in its official newspaper that criticize the free-market model for having "grown too much and badly in the past two decades."

The Osservatore's editor, Giovanni Maria Vian, said that "the great religions have always had a common attention to the human dimension of the economy," Corriere della Sera reported today.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/index.php?aType=haberArchive&ArticleID=37814

Well, this is from the great Vatican.

@virgo, you see, it does not take much to bring out the real you from under the cover of your I am so open minded and only want to establish the truth at all times story. I will not mind all your ranting. So, you studied Islam with this attitude, no wonder you learnt little. You need to free your mind from your imperialist mindset. I am just toying with you, but my points are valid nonetheless. Whether you like it or not Islamic banking is here to stay. Take Sanusi to court if it bothers you so much. You are the first author I have had contact with who does not want to share his or her literature. Are you so vexed? Take a chill pill.

maclatunji:

@virgo, you see, it does not take much to bring out the real you from under the cover of your I am so open minded and only want to establish the truth at all times story. I will not mind all your ranting. So, you studied Islam with this attitude, no wonder you learnt little.  You need to free your mind from your imperialist  mindset. I am just toying with you, but my points are valid nonetheless. Whether you like it or not Islamic banking is here to stay. Take Sanusi to court if it bothers you so much. You are the first author I have had contact with who does not want to share his or her literature. Are you so vexed? Take a chill pill.

You think I have an imperialist mindset??!!! Lol! If you are happy believing that, please don't let me stop you.

Rant? Lol. You were the one that started the "my religion is better than your religion" discussion instead of sticking to the topic at hand. You sound so comical every time you try to show off your intellectual prowess. You have shown a perchance for digressing more than anyone I have spoken to. I say something and yet you have problem with simple comprehension. You didn't have to drag me through all this if you UNDERSTOOD for a second where I was coming from. You took the religious highroad and started convulsing with unnecessary righteous indignation over a simple issue.

You have wasted precious energy trying to convince me that I am not have as "smart" as you, yet I shake my head every time I read from you. I even saw you tell someone that he doesn't belong to your level. Come on now son. To be educated is one thing, to be ignorant, another. You have moved from seemingly intelligent, to mediocre, hysterical, and to comical over this religion issue, and that's why I smile, cos like the mad man who thinks everyone else is mad for not hearing the jokes he hears, you believe you are on a pedestal that is unattainable and your position should not be challenged even though you made some very erroneous assertions. Initially you tried to dismiss me even going as far as saying "I just play with the keyboard". Lol. You are a master piece. I just want to advice you to stop being so over sensitive over religion because it is a waste of time. Most humans fight for G-d because of a mind set like yours. The topic said "Sanusi", you start miseducating people with history that is not connected to what people were talking about.

At the second highlighted. One, people who have the "like it or not" attitude stopped ruling sometime for sometime now. Or are you one of them? I don't have to take Sanusi to court, his decision is already being challenged by some learned friends of mine. One group of people cannot keep fostering their wishes on the rest of the country.Second, you are the one who needs the chill pill. As I was joking about giving you books after the world "ends". After all, you asked for free copies. Peace!

Kudos to our lawmakers on this one. They certainly paid attention to the alarm and discuss about this issue.

Quote: They also directed the nation’s apex bank to come up with a complete briefing on “non-interest financial banking” at a later date. On non-interest banking, Wogu said the circular “is a violation of Section 10 of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. The guideline is similar to the banking laws of Malaysia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Libya. These are Islamic states which banking system and regulation are run strictly under Islamic law and jurisprudence”.

I dare say that this simple act of correcting such anomaly b/4 it is too late would save Nigeria from ignorant conflicts on what should be a simple matter.

Nigeria is a secular nation, and the sooner people get that fixed into their neurons the better for all of us.

I don't even know what strict Islamic jurisprudence the countries mentioned above are run under - they are all corrupt nations to the core. Libya's Khaddafi and his sons are known to boogie down every now and then with the best American artists, including (I confess) my favorite Beyonce and that behind of hers gyrating without mercy.

Saudi Prince got seriously sick he spent more than a year in America getting better, Nigeria's president got seriously sick he "headed" for Hajj in Saudi Arabia.

Why do we enjoy adding to our pains unnecessarily Why must Nigerians always to be more catholic than the pope

CBN to increase N150,000 withdrawal limit .

Friday, 27 May 2011 00:00 Sanya Adejokun Hits: 10 .

•Senate directs Sanusi to remove Sharia clause

Governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN), Sanusi Lamido Sanusi, yesterday declared that the N150,000 withdrawal limit set for bank customers may be increased.

However, the Senate Committee on Banking, Insurance and Other Financial Institutions, has directed the apex bank to withdraw the circular for issuance of Non-Interest Banking Licence because it contradicted Section 10 of the Constitution.

At an interactive session between the committee and senior officials of the bank at the National Assembly Complex, Abuja, Sanusi insisted that the directive on lodgement and withdrawal by June 1, 2012 was agreed on by the Bankers’ Committee which had already studied the situation in other countries.

“The law is not cast in stone. If by June, next year, we are not ready, then we will shift the date and if we also notice that N150,000 is not adequate or that the value has greatly reduced, we will increase it,” Sanusi told the Senators.

He explained that the CBN and the Bankers’ Committee had been working on the policy in the last six months to one year and by now, arrangements had been made with IT vendors to supply enough Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs) and Point of Sale (POS) terminals to serve the teeming polulation of traders across the country.

According to him, the CBN had envisaged complaints from affected Nigerians over the policy.

He added: “Basically, what we need is ambition and belief. The effective date of implementation is not cast in stone”.

He further explained that the apex bank had explored the financial systems of some West African and European countries, including Ghana, Kenya, Brazil and others, and found that if Nigeria must meet its target of Vision 2020-20, it should metamorphose into a cashless society.

According to Sanusi, only 10 per cent of Nigerians were capable of withdrawing upwards of N100,000 cash per day thereby, leaving the remaining 90 per cent to bear the cost of cash management which, he said, was high.

“The industry proposal is not to place limit on cash transactions, but provide that the 10 per cent of customers that make high volume cash transactions will bear the associated cost and eliminate the subsidy by the mass public (90 per cent) of banking customers,” Sanusi continued.

“The banking industry is committed to create an enabling environment to achieve a shift in behaviour to alternative payment channels; implementation is strategically phased and complementary reform is progressing on alternative payments channels through the retail payments transformation programme,” he added.

“In 2009 direct cost of cash management, the system spent N114.5 billion in cash management and the projection is that by 2020, we will get to N200 billion in cash management. Forty five per cent of total cash transaction that were down in Nigeria was in the region of zero to N10,000 and as you go down, you will find that 90 per cent of daily cash transaction were less than N100,000. Only 10 per cent by number of the transaction that are down in the banking sector are of N100,000 and above.

“The 10 per cent of N100,000 and above accounts for 75 per cent of the total value of cash so what is happening is that the 90 per cent poor Nigerians who do more than N100 000 a day are subsidising the 10 per cent rich ones. And what we said is that this is not fair. Those that do heavy cash transaction, they should pay for it, if you do more than N150,000, you pay a fine. We did not say you cannot do more than N150,000. If you do, you pay a fine so that you are not subsidised by the poor Nigerians.

Members of the Committee, led by Senator Nkechi Nwogu, who all expressed support for the initiative, however, canvassed for an extension of time to allow for proper education of the public and also for the deployment of adequate ATMs and POS terminals.

They also directed the nation’s apex bank to come up with a complete briefing on “non-interest financial banking” at a later date.

On non-interest banking, Wogu said the circular “is a violation of Section 10 of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. The guideline is similar to the banking laws of Malaysia, Iran, Iraq, Temen, Saudi Arabia and Libya. These are Islamic states which banking system and regulation are run strictly under Islamic law and jurisprudence”.

On non-interest banking, Wogu said the circular “is a violation of Section 10 of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. The guideline is similar to the banking laws of Malaysia, Iran, Iraq, Temen, Saudi Arabia and Libya. These are Islamic states which banking system and regulation are run strictly under Islamic law and jurisprudence”.

You see, our technocrats are senseless and lazy.They copy other countries without understanding the circumstances behind their policies.For instance, in Malaysia the idea of non interest banking is a political thing championed by one of their leaders, Mohamad Mahathir.Malaysia is composed of three major ethnic groups-the Malays,the Chinese and the Indians-The Malays are the local people or aborigines and the Chinese migrated from china and are highly successful in business.The Malaysian authorities discovered that the Chinese are taking over the entire business of the state at the detriment of the local Malays, so they initiated a program to encourage local Malays in various business.That program includes non interest loans to local Malays, tax free profits etc.

So, when we compare ourselves with others, we should try as much as possible to understand the circumstances behind their programs.In the case of Malaysia, it wasn't because it's Islam or fine policy but because it makes loans available to only local Malays who are seen to be overpowered by the Chinese.The same can be said of Iran etc.

Interest or non interest loan is not the issue, but branding it '' Islamic'' in a circular state is capable of causing immense catastrophe.Setting up an Islamic jurisprudence or whatever it is called is out of place.It seems the Nigerian CBN is missing or forgetting it's traditional function of maintaining price stability through the use of monetary policy, exchange rate stability and mgt, banker to the commercial banks and govt etc.

I am vexed by the level of impunity displayed by our leaders, be it in politics or in policies.Sanusi as the cbn governor makes his policies without proper consultation and with utter disregard to the laws of the land.During the bailing out of banks in 2009 he printed out currencies without due process and because our law breakers makers do not even understand the constitution, nothing was done about it.If the CBN governor can print out currency without approval from the relevant government arm, then he can likewise print our currency to send his wife to oshodi market or maternity checkup.

It's high time we stopped this rubbish.Since they want to be like other countries, why not bring in ATM machines that accept deposits, at least that is what is reigning now or can't they notice that also?