http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/powergame/2011/june/12/powergame-june-12-2011-002.html

Former Lagos State Commissioner of Police, Abubakar Tsav, does not need any introduction. But one thing that stands him out is his unrepentant crusade for people to do the right thing in Nigeria. In this interview, the man who has assumed the role of a social critic and human rights crusader, speaks on a wide range of issues including the state of affairs in the country and Benue State in particular. Excerpts…

You were among those who did not want President Goodluck Jonathan to contest the 2011 presidential election. In fact, you even published an open letter to him in a national newspaper. What informed your stance at that time?

Yes, at that time the situation was very confusing. People believed that if you bring in Jonathan, there would be a lot of election rigging. Also, his own people; the militants, were against him. And when they started this bombing here and there, we believed he was not a popular person. And I thought it would have been better for him to supervise the elections as an umpire rather than contest.

But eventually, when the presidential candidates emerged, we found that some of them were not credible enough and people seemed to pitch their tent with Jonathan. I saw him initially as a reserved person, somebody who was timid, and I also saw him as a tribal president because at that time people like Chief Clarke and a host of them were hell-bent on his becoming president. So, I thought he was sectional, he was not popularly accepted all over the country.

But when they started fielding all the presidential candidates, they brought some people who were not credible enough. Also, within the one year he ruled, I think he did well because he ruled with humility and there was no violation of the law, no violation of human rights, there was no politics of hatred and the likes. Perhaps, he learnt a lot within that one year. I still held unto my view that he should not contest. But, here we are, he contested and won, and was accepted by everybody.

Now that he has won, what is the next step for him and the country?
There are two things he did that impressed me. First, you know that this year’s budget was inflated, but he returned it to them to remove the excess money they added to it. Secondly, the issue of former Speaker Bankole, he refused to say anything about it. He refused to defend him even though we learnt from the pages of newspapers that Bankole’s father and his people lobbied that he should not be handed over to the EFCC. And I am sure if Jonathan had told the EFCC not to take action on this, they wouldn’t have obeyed.

So, the fact that the man is turned over to the EFCC made me to also have confidence in Jonathan, because I now see him as somebody who will not interfere in matters pertaining to the judiciary. Like in other countries of the world, very important people are arrested and prosecuted and you would not see government interfering. So, I think when Bankole was finally picked up and nothing came from the presidency saying they should not do this or that, I felt he is the person we need, because he is from the minority and would try to leave a mark. I believe absolutely that he started very well.

I also believe that perhaps, if he were the man in charge, the case against Obasanjo’s daughter wouldn’t have died just like that, because we are not hearing anything about it again. So, I think with that he will do very well. But there are issues he must have to tackle. First and foremost, he must deal with the issue of corruption. That is what is destroying this country, and that is what will destroy this country. Corruption and dishonesty. When the country starts regarding other people as sacred cows; people commit serious offences and you do nothing against them; that is where we are having problems.

For proponents of zoning, 2011 should be the North’s turn as president, but with the emergence of Jonathan, what happens in 2015?
I think we should rather go for the best. We are advancing in the country. We should stop fighting over parochial interest. We should stop this issue of zoning or no zoning, because if we talk about zoning, we would be installing the wrong people to rule us in this country. We should go for the best. If in 2015 we get someone very good, we should take him. Look at this issue of Tambuwal, the South-West were trying to encourage regional politics, and democracy of regional politics is now working against them because, if you have only one particular political party reigning in a particular region as it were, you cannot appoint somebody there to be Speaker.

So, I think what they are doing now is good. We are gradually moving away from what used to happen in those days. But the West is still trying to draw us back to what happened many years back during Awolowo’s time, because the West was for Action Group, the East for NCNC and the North for NPC, but as it is now, the PDP appears to be a national party, which has its wings everywhere in the states. But these people want to retain what Awolowo started by saying let us have a regional party. Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) has taken over the West, and it is not good. If they had tried to penetrate the North or the East, that should have given them a national outlook.

As it is now, you cannot take somebody from there, who belongs to a different political party, and make him a Speaker. You cannot take somebody from a region that has produced opposition and make him a Speaker of the House of Representatives. That is wrong. One other thing that also worked towards our development is that the parties no longer have control over such issues, because PDP had wanted the Speaker to come from the West, but the politicians said no; including the opposition, because even the opposition also voted for Tambuwal, which is a good development for this country. So, all these people who call themselves godfathers are being phased out gradually, and that is a very healthy development for this country.

But what happens if Jonathan decides to contest again in 2015, because some people say this country might break if he contests. What is your take on this?
In my opinion, he has the opportunity to endear himself to the people of this country within the next four years. If he performs very well, if he is able to fight corruption, which is our major problem in this country; if he is able to restore electricity, revive our ailing industries, provide jobs and security, lay a very solid foundation for the rule of law in this country, we will accept him.

We will campaign for him too, because that is what we want. If somebody from the minority can give us our needs in this country, he is the one we should accept. We will not bring a regional president; people who come to say oh, this time is for the North, East, South or West. No, we don’t want that. We want somebody that would give us everything we require in this country. But you see, Nigeria is a place where we have a lot of wealth and resources – human, material, mineral and the rest of them. We have them in abundance, but there are people who want to amass wealth by all means, and the type of wealth they are amassing, they can’t even finish spending it in their lifetime; they cannot even say they willed it to their children, because when you are too rich in most cases, your children would not want to go to school. They would rely on your wealth.

And somebody who does not go to school is ignorant, and the worst ailment that can afflict anybody in the world is ignorance. Once you are ignorant, you are a misfit wherever you find yourself. So, we want somebody that would be able to lay solid background for the rule of law, have zero tolerance for corruption, restore electricity, revive our ailing industries, create jobs and give us very effective and functional healthcare system, devote his attention on agriculture and the rest. We don’t want somebody that wants to make money for himself; going to Dubai for shopping, and heading for London to shop with his wife and children. Look at other African countries; Nyerere was a poor man when he left office as president. He had no house. He had to go to his village. Also, Mandela ruled for only one tenure and left, and today he is a hero, not only in Africa but all over the world.

How do you see the winner-takes-all posture of our politicians?
To me, I don’t see it as winner-takes-all, because that would encourage the opposition to have their manifesto. If you are in the opposition, you criticize the government because government is doing this or that, then suddenly that government wins and you agree to form a government of national unity with it, then you have no manifesto for your party. So, I think the issue of winner-takes-all is good, people would now go and build up their manifesto so that they would have policies and know what to pursue.

But, if you have a common manifesto with the ruling party, then you can only assist in running their government. Look at the case of MDP, the NNPP came as a strong opposition party because they have no manifesto, and because some of their governors wanted to be protected by the MDP, they resigned and joined the PDP, and that was why the MDP collapsed. Now, the ANPP has won in one or two states in the North, and if the ACN also agrees to form a government of national unity, their own party too will collapse. I remember during Obasanjo’s regime, the man who was chairman of ANPP took the position of Adviser under Obasanjo.

You are in ANPP, an opposition party, and you accept a position under a ruling party, what advice would you give them? Would you give them advice based on your manifesto or the manifesto of the ruling party? So, some of these people in opposition do not go there because they have the interest of this country at heart, they do so for their selfish and political interest. Therefore, I think the issue of winner-takes-all is good.

What is your advice to those who lost in the last election?
The losers should go back and do their homework and prepare for the next election.

Let’s talk about issues affecting Benue State. Recently, Paul Unongo said the ACN and not the PDP won the governorship election in the state, what is your comment on this?
You see, Paul Unongo is somebody I respect so much because we knew ourselves when we were still in primary school and I have been following his performance. When he was Minster of Steel Development, he provided many jobs for people, helped a lot of people. And for him to have said the PDP did not win, I think perhaps, he was angry. Maybe somebody offended him, because he was in his house, he was not an electoral officer, he did not collate result, he was not everywhere the election were held. So, how did he conclude that PDP did not win? If he had talked about his own polling booth, where he was supposed to be, it would have been understandable. He was not an agent for any political party.

So, he was not moving from one polling booth to another. He based his utterances on what he was told. And I think he did that because the man who contested election under the platform of the ACN is like a son to him. Prof. Ugbah is the son of Unongo’s immediate younger sister, the same father and mother. I knew her during her lifetime, I knew her father and mother and I also know Paul Unongo. So, for him to say PDP did not win without having concrete evidence to substantiate his claim, I think is wrong. I think he was only angry. Again, perhaps, he tried to expose the nepotistic instinct in him. Maybe he was offended, maybe something happened, I don’t know. But let me tell you something; several months back, precisely on January 2 this year, I went to Paul Unongo’s village to see him.

That was when I saw the poster of that young man offering himself as a gubernatorial candidate. I knew the boy when he was here and when I visited California, I visited his house three times. So, I went to see Paul Unongo and asked him, “I’ve seen your son come out as gubernatorial candidate, even though he has not shown us the party he was going to join. Don’t you think his contesting this position would bring him in collision with the governor and other people in the state?”

He told me and I have no cause to lie against him, that he was not consulted and that when they came he told them he would not in support of the idea because it was the same Akume and Ayu, who sent thugs to burn his hotel in Jato-Aka and house in Unongo Village during which they exhumed bodies of his mother and father, removed them from the caskets, flogged and set them ablaze. That was what Unongo told me. He said he was not in support of Ugbah’s governorship bid and he had advised his son (Ugbah), but he would not listen.

Then, I was also told (he did not tell me this himself) that he said he had anointed Suswam as gubernatorial candidate and that anybody contesting against Suswam would die. I did not hear him say so, but people who heard him said he said so. So, for him to have come back suddenly to say he was supporting people who went and desecrated his parents’ grave, I don’t know why he did that.

Perhaps, somebody must have annoyed him; maybe it’s old age catching up with him. You know when you are getting old sometimes, you lose your senses, you talk like little children. It may be one of these things, I don’t know. But I am utterly disappointed, because what he is saying now is at variance with what he told me initially.

Now that Suswam has won, what is your advice to him?
Even though I have said the opposition should not romance with the ruling government, I want to appeal to Suswam, now he is the governor of Benue State, not the governor of PDP but governor of everybody, he should embrace everybody. He should forgive those who contested against him; those who said horrible things against him, all must have wished him bad.

His primary objective is to be governor, and now he is governor. He should forgive and bring them together. The opposition too should sheathe their swords, come back and work with Suswam for the development of the state, because that is the only way we can develop. Other states are developing while we are quarreling over spilt milk. I also want to appeal to the university students to stop involving themselves in tribal politics.