^^You have NO point. Or they are NOT cogent enough.

virgo:

'
Dear "violent", before the news of this deal got here on NL, I read it extensively and I know what is involved. No amount of your "intelligent" calculations and economic evaluations can change whitewash these deals to give them a good look. The alarm was raised by a firm in the US that you people are being bought for the cheap, and you Africans in Nigeria are acting like you speak English better than the Queen of England.

I am not going to waste my time getting into an argument with you. Out of all the intellectual balderdash most of you are presenting in favour of this 21st century invasion, all I can see is a bunch of African sheeple seeing nothing wrong with the way your people who are already being screwed over by IMF and its sister agencies, are being given up to be further deprived of their own lands. No wonder, the whites always find willing accomplices during their misadventures in Africa. Like one said on the CNN website during the Halliburton scandal, "you play dirty in a dirty place." PATHETIC!

You haven't actually said much in relation to my earlier post, especially considering the fact that they consist of begging questions that needed desperate answers from folks like you who happen to be in the know before the news even got out. . . .and that folks like us who only love to brandish our English could be saved from our ignorance.

One begins to question how liberated and exposed some of you are when issues like this are being discussed.
For some of you, If Dangote had bought the entire Uganda with a single check, he's just being an astute businessman who  recognize value and simply made a gun for it. . .but if some guy in Texas think it will be a nice thing to own a direct exposure to African markets, you come out with your sharp knives asking for his head----nothing but his head is good enough to appease the gods for attempting a 21st century invasion!!!!. . . .but if you receive any less treatment, they are being racist!!!

For some of you, the concept of the world being a global village will never register in your pea sized brain, you wonder why China opens its doors wide enough for investors to conduct transactions, you never quite understand why London is referred to as the world's business capital, the concepts of wall street never sleeping is far too complex for you to grab, and with your mouths left ajar, you simply watched while the rest of the world advance, far ahead of you, when asked, your answer?-----"Let's prevent 21st century invasion, they are coming for our Lands, they are coming for our oil, the white man is planning to steal away our kids!!!-----how lame can you get?"

It's quite relieving that you wouldn't have time to argue with common me, that's like saving me a lot of time trying to explain the concepts of open markets, economics of supply and demand, global trade etc etc to someone who in all probability is least likely to understand even the simplest things.

It's even more amusing that the so called West are doing more than several of you multiply together to eradicate poverty and disease from Africa.  you love it when the make donations in billions of pound sterlings to Haiti, Somalia and Niger, but you can't stand them investing their monies in this economies---- very fair don't you think?

Many of you arguing blindly probably don't even know that Ethopia is the 10th poorest country in the world with only a GDP of 700 million dollars.  Their Agriculture business has suffered serious lowdown because of poor cultivation techniques and frequent drought and  80% of its population live on breadline. Most of you sit back in your comfortable homes and watch this economy plunge into the dark of darkness, but when you hear investors planning to throw in millions of dollars, you take to the internet and start a cyberwar----now, that's what i call PATHETIC!!!!!!

@Violent

Here's the breakdown

Commodities are priced in dollars;

An increase in inflation means a decrease in the value of a dollar.

The dollar and commodity prices have an inverse relationship, When dollars decrease in value, commodity prices increase!




What you're doing is trying to teach me Macroeconomics 101; I already done that 6years ago. Trust me, by the grace of God, I know my economics very well.  


Not all commodities are priced in $$$, however, I would rather you phrase it as $$$ is the most common trading currency in the world. In other words, the $$$ trades a higher volume, besides no one is asking where whether they are priced in $$$ or not. There are other commodities that are priced in Euro and GBP; nevertheless, that's not what I'm talking about

Again let me rephrase, according to my example, you are willing trying to convince me that a $0.55 increase is due to inflation ? I then asked how much % inflation are we talking about again ? While inflation is directly relative to price of goods and services, inflation does not account for all changes in prices of commodities, it could simply be a relative price adjustment. I agree that price is an inflation determinant, but the question is how much is the cost inflation on a goods and service from the real cost. In order words, if you were to segregate the real cost from inflation cost, how much does difference in price levels attribute to inflation? For instance using my example, using current inflation rate or a modest rate, how much of that $0.55 differential change is inflation cost and how much is just a relative price adjustment?

violent:


No one can ever lay claim to being an authority on issues like this.  There will always be arguments and counter arguments, for every Lester Brown, there are several other renowned economists or investors who share opposing views.  In as much as i can't lay claim to ever coming an inch in measures of quality of experience when Lester Brown is mentioned, i work in an industry where i have constructive arguments with some of the best minds ever, and I am positive that i have gained an experience good enough for me to come up with my own ideas and stand by them.

and if this is regarding your initial statement, i realize i might have gone out of line by stating that you're wrong.

It's ok bro. At the end of the day we are all arguing for the same thing. A better deal and better Standards of living for our people. That is the goal really.

Now, for me, just as I concluded earlier on the thread, I'm more worried about our lack of coherent policies backed by well crafted systems. The system is the key. We have an archaic land use act in Nigeria. We need to fix these things and make sure that the onwnership of land and resources are well defined.

EX: if Mr. Chinaman approaches the Benue State Governor to seal a land deal that will displace the people of Oturkpo from their subsistence farm lands for 100 years while paying them peanuts to work the land.

1. Mr corrupt Governor can claim he provided jobs through farming.
2. He brought in foreign investment.
3. He can get the land back if Mr. Chinaman messes up

But

1. Are we sure that the job will provide any increase in standard of living?  ( think about fishing before Crude Oil in Niger delta, are they living better now?)

2. Can Mr. Chinaman/investor invest in technology and skill transfer if he already bribed Mr. Governor to seal the deal and still bribes him to sustain it? (remember the oil industry)

3. Can Mr. Chinaman be trusted to walk away quietly from a forceful seizure of land or can you trust him not to manipulate our unstrusctured corruption prone system to keep himself and his investments secure( think Shell, Chevron, remember the spies in our Oil Ministry according to wikileaks?)

4. Can a China or USA with their massive world geo-political influence be trusted to pursue altruistic endeavors when they can easily manipulate a corrupt weak system?

5. Can you trust these leaders to protect the interest of our people?

No sensible land ownership system, an oppressive land act which gave ownership to a corrupt  Government and pressure from Shylock investors is a recipe for more suffering. We've been down this road before several times

The issue is not about fear mongering or an aversion towards investment.

In a sane society with well crafted systems we can leverage these interests and benefit immensely from it, but I see no system in place and I see little pressure on our leaders to get one running. That is why I'm worried. Resources are scarce and our competitors are not dumb Mother Theresas.

If I'm China, Korea or USA I will do exactly what they are doing. It is not my fault that other folks are silly. So we need to work on fixing the stuffs above plus other issues, else we'll keep getting ra/pe/d royally. It is what it is.

violent:


You haven't actually said much in relation to my earlier post, especially considering the fact that they consist of begging questions that needed desperate answers from folks like you who happen to be in the know before the news even got out. . . .and that folks like us who only love to brandish our English could be saved from our ignorance.

One begins to question how liberated and exposed some of you are when issues like this are being discussed.
For some of you, If Dangote had bought the entire Uganda with a single check, he's just being an astute businessman who  recognize value and simply made a gun for it. . .but if some guy in Texas think it will be a nice thing to own a direct exposure to African markets, you come out with your sharp knives asking for his head----nothing but his head is good enough to appease the gods for attempting a 21st century invasion!!!!. . . .but if you receive any less treatment, they are being racist!!!

For some of you, the concept of the world being a global village will never register in your pea sized brain, you wonder why China opens its doors wide enough for investors to conduct transactions, you never quite understand why London is referred to the world's business capital, the concepts of wall street never sleeping is far too complex for you to grab, and with your mouths left ajar, you simply watched while the rest of the world advance, far ahead of you, when asked, you answer?-----Let's prevent 21st century invasion, they are coming for our Lands, they are coming for our oil, the white man is planning to steal away our kids!!!-----how lame can you get?

THANK YOU!

violent:


You haven't actually said much in relation to my earlier post, especially considering the fact that they consist of begging questions that needed desperate answers from folks like you who happen to be in the know before the news even got out. . . .and that folks like us who only love to brandish our English could be saved from our ignorance.

One begins to question how liberated and exposed some of you are when issues like this are being discussed.
For some of you, If Dangote had bought the entire Uganda with a single check, he's just being an astute businessman who  recognize value and simply made a gun for it. . .but if some guy in Texas think it will be a nice thing to own a direct exposure to African markets, you come out with your sharp knives asking for his head----nothing but his head is good enough to appease the gods for attempting a 21st century invasion!!!!. . . .but if you receive any less treatment, they are being racist!!!

For some of you, the concept of the world being a global village will never register in your pea sized brain, you wonder why China opens its doors wide enough for investors to conduct transactions, you never quite understand why London is referred to the world's business capital, the concepts of wall street never sleeping is far too complex for you to grab, and with your mouths left ajar, you simply watched while the rest of the world advance, far ahead of you, when asked, you answer?-----Let's prevent 21st century invasion, they are coming for our Lands, they are coming for our oil, the white man is planning to steal away our kids!!!-----how lame can you get?

It's quite relieving that you wouldn't have time to argue with common me, that's like saving me a lot of time trying to explain the concepts of open markets, economics of supply and demand, global trade etc etc to someone who in all probability is least likely to understand even the simplest things.

It's even more amusing that the so called West are doing more than several of you multiply together to eradicate poverty and disease from Africa.  you love it when the make donations in billions of pound sterlings to Haiti, Somalia and Niger, but you can't stand them investing their monies in this economies---- very fair don't you think?

Many of you arguing blindly probably don't even know that Ethopia is the 10th poorest country in the world with only a GDP of 700 million dollars.  Their Agriculture business has suffered serious lowdown because of poor cultivation techniques and frequent drought and  80% of its population live on breadline. Most of you sit back in your comfortable homes and watch this economy plunge into the dark of darkness, but when you hear investors planning to throw in millions of dollars, you take to the internet and start a cyberwar----now, that's what i call PATHETIC!!!!!!
 

Watch out, peeps. This is the Aganga of the future. Made in America.

What you're doing is trying to teach me Macroeconomics 101; I already done that 6years ago. Trust me, by the grace of God, I know my economics very well.


Not all commodities are priced in $$$, however, I would rather you phrase it as $$$ is the most common trading currency in the world. In other words, the $$$ trades a higher volume, besides no one is asking where whether they are priced in $$$ or not. There are other commodities that are priced in Euro and GBP; nevertheless, that's not what I'm talking about

Again let me rephrase, according to my example, you are willing trying to convince me that a $0.55 increase is due to inflation ? I then asked how much % inflation are we talking about again ? While inflation is directly relative to price of goods and services, inflation does not account for all changes in prices of commodities, it could simply be a relative price adjustment. I agree that price is an inflation determinant, but the question is how much is the cost inflation on a goods and service from the real cost. In order words, if you were to segregate the real cost from inflation cost, how much does difference in price levels attribute to inflation? For instance using my example, using current inflation rate or a modest rate, how much of that $0.55 differential change is inflation cost and how much is just a relative price adjustment?

I am not sure if there are specific ways to measure isolated cases such as this, especially considering the fact that several other factors are involved such as cost of goods and profit margins. The inflation rates itself bears more on overall economy than a single isolated sector. Several sectors react sharply than others in terms of prices when inflation is concerned. For instance, Gold is likely to experience a sharper increase in price than Beans. The inflation rates itself is measured using a basket of goods using a metric known as the Consumer Price Index. However, you are likely to know more than i do on this, if you do, I will be more than happy to learn!

1. Are we sure that the job will provide any increase in standard of living?  ( think about fishing before Crude Oil in Niger delta, are they living better now?)

2. Can Mr. Chinaman/investor invest in technology and skill transfer if he already bribed Mr. Governor to seal the deal and still bribes him to sustain it? (remember the oil industry)

3. Can Mr. Chinaman be trusted to walk away quietly from a forceful seizure of land or can you trust him not to manipulate our unstrusctured corruption prone system to keep himself and his investments secure( think Shell, Chevron, remember the spies in our Oil Ministry according to wikileaks?)

4. Can a China or USA with their massive world geo-political influence be trusted to pursue altruistic endeavors when they can easily manipulate a corrupt weak system?

5. Can you trust these leaders to protect the interest of our people?

No sensible land ownership system, an oppressive land act which gave ownership to a corrupt  Government and pressure from Shylock investors is a recipe for more suffering. We've been down this road before several times

The issue is not about fear mongering or an aversion towards investment.

In a sane society with well crafted systems we can leverage these interests and benefit immensely from it, but I see no system in place and I see little pressure on our leaders to get one running. That is why I'm worried. Resources are scarce and our competitors are not dumb Mother Theresas.

If I'm China, Korea or USA I will do exactly what they are doing. It is not my fault that other folks are silly. So we need to work on fixing the stuffs above plus other issues, else we'll keep getting ra/pe/d royally. It is what it is.

Your questions are intelligent, but as you know, there are always two point to every deal.

Mr Chinaman is a businessman, in the line of Business, you only look after one person, YOURSELF!!--- our government is responsible for us, and the onus is on us to elect more responsible leaders into government, who can source for better deals and act with selfless serving attitude for the good of the country.

There's no way you can ever trust a foreign investor completely, think about what would happen if the US operates a lax tax systems?. . . .it's simple, investors will flock in and milk the system for what it's worth, but in a case where the US doesn't, the country gets a lot from investors and grows itself with the proceedings.

In China, the government operates a policy such that every foreign company must employ a certain number of Chinese citizen, this ensures that unemployment rates is better managed and kept in check. 
As for countries being able to keep companies in check, i believe this comes down still to the country's diplomatic approach at handling situations.  America could hardly deal with BP after the mass pollution of it's aquatic life, it will likely keep the card as a joker for future negotiations.

Foreign companies or not, our development as a nation has more to do with the leaders we have and how selfless they are in service of the nation!

^^^ Not to remove from what you have there, I felt this was also necessary .  . .

violent:

Mr Dangote is a businessman, in the line of Business, you only look after one person, YOURSELF!!--- our government is responsible for us, and the onus is on us to elect more responsible leaders into government, who can source for better deals and act with selfless serving attitude for the good of the country.

There's no way you can ever trust a Local investors completely . . . .

@Violent. Exactly, those points you raised are the reasons why I'm worried and I suspect same for several people here.

If we don't fix those things we are not benefitting Zilch from these land deals.

. . . if you have problems with the deals being made, direct your frustrations at your government, not the buyers

Kobojunkie:

^^^ Not to remove from what you have there, I felt this was also necessary .  . .

very appropriate!

Kilode?!:

@Violent. Exactly, those points you raised are the reasons why I'm worried and I suspect same for several people here.

If we don't fix those things we are not benefitting Zilch from these land deals.

I see the point of your arguments, but i don't think it's the same argument others are making.

Our leaders are our worst nightmares!

I dunno why people r huffing n puffing about this , its been going on for years now only difference is that its going very public,Look at the niger delta thats a whole state Shell and Exxon mobile OWN, Africa has nothing to gain associating with the West or Asia we need to follow the footsteps of Cuba, Nationalize everything !

stmarc32:

I dunno why people r huffing n puffing about this , its been going on for years now only difference is that its going very public,Look at the niger delta thats a whole state Shell and Exxon mobile OWN, Africa has nothing to gain associating with the West or Asia we need to follow the footsteps of Cuba, Nationalize everything !

And just how well has Cuba been doing since the Soviet Union broke up? Would you really like for Nigeria to be in a similar situation as Cuba? Keep in mind her size, population and location.

I specifically stated one thing there and that was to nationalize everything, also Cuba has alot less to offer when it comes to natural resources , Nigeria on the other hand has the capability to export both Agricultural products and Crude oil and if america is not buying asia will, and if nationalization does happen it means better employment opportunities for Nigerians,

stmarc32:

I specifically stated one thing there and that was to nationalize everything, also Cuba has alot less to offer when it comes to natural resources , Nigeria on the other hand has the capability to export both Agricultural products and Crude oil and if america is not buying asia will, and if nationalization does happen it means better employment opportunities for Nigerians,

Give control of the country's resources to the same corrupt clowns who are now falling over themselves selling large tracks of African land? If there is anythings Africans should have learned from the last 50 years it is not to be foolish enough to trust our leaders with anything of that magnitude.

Idehn:

Give control of the country's resources to the same corrupt clowns who are now falling over themselves selling large tracks of African land? If there is anythings Africans should have learned from the last 50 years it is not to be foolish enough to trust our leaders with anything of that magnitude.

So what would u advise we do ? Let the europeans come in and buy everything ? so we end up like Rhodesia or the Congo?

And do not forget Nationalization will always come with a revolution, Cuba didnt nationalize everything without a fight.

Usually, I smile when i see stuffs like this!
I call it buck passing.
We have opportunities we don't use, and someone comes, and we complain abt being cheated.
Not that i support this, however, i will like us to be more optimal in our decision making, rather than playing the blame game.
Now, the question is, shd we be able to do exactly the same, will we?
I think, 50% of the time we will, and another 50% we won't.
If these land we been used effectively by Africans, I am not sure it would be sold off so cheaply.
Another question is if it was other african countries buying up this lands, would it generate this much discussion?
Methinks as africans, we need to be more strategic.
I wonder why some Wealthy Nigerians, South Africans, etc did not buy up this properties?
Just my thot!

africans believe in quick cash and instant rewards,they don't project into d future and that explains d sorry state of africa

Really this is an eye opener to us.

Whether we like it or not, more deals are being finalized everyday around us!

If foreigners are taking our resources away then we need to collectively and individually do something.

We in Africa prefer to spend our hard earned money on "wasting assets" e.g. cars, clothes e.t.c. while this smart whites keep acquiring appreciating assets.

My piece of advise is that you start buying properties and land because things won't get any better.

We africans are a bunch of fools and hence the West knows this.Americans you can even come and colonise nigeria if u want to.After all if nigeria becomes an american colony then u wont need to buy our oil.We africans are the b1ggest 1d1ots on earth and we are a big shame to the black race especially Nigeria and our bunch of blockheaded potbellied politicians.

Well done, Mr. Violent.

Anyways, if your state is selling/leasing public lands, then make sure they don't sell/lease too cheaply.

Let every man/state decide how they want to run their own affairs. If you don't want to sell/lease to foreigners in State X, that is your prerogative.

I am surprised that those nairaland members who support the USA blindly in all its foreign policies are avoiding this thread

Before any UK company can go ahead with a land acquisition  here in the UK it must first of all consult with members of the public who live in the affected area or who have some sort of interest in the land which is to be purchased.  

Notices are put up on site or in the local newspaper and anyone who is not happy with the proposal is permitted to raise an objectiion which is then determined by a govt official, members of the public are permitted to attend the meeting and they can ask questions and voice their concerns. If more people object to the proposal than agree to it the project is abandoned, this has happened several times in the UK where large supermarket chains like sainsburys, Asda and Tescos decide to buy up what is known as green belt land ie land which govt purposely leaves fallow in order to preserve the natural habitats of these tracts of land.

I have never ever come across a situation where a large business does secret deals with a govt which are approved without any form of consultation - 9 times out of 10 the british public are against giving up the smallest bit of green belt land for development because they see this land as their heritage and prefer that it is kept fallow or as a conservation site.  I can only imagine the huge outcry that would go up in this country if FOREIGNERS were to come in and buy up or lease huge tracts of land to grow food to feed  THEIR own populations - any british govt that approved such a deal would be hounded out of office for betraying the british people.

am going back 2 farming business.

daroz (m)
Benin City/ Graz(Austria)
Posts: 462

Offline

Re: Africa Is Mumu Inc: Us Universities(Harvard et al) buying up African lands
« #18 on: Yesterday at 17:13:13 »
@Poster I dont need to read all the crap u wrote, all I know is that its your entire Village that is mumu, not African at large.
I wonder why some pple, becos they think they  have freedom of speech, will think they are at liberty to say anything they like. What an obnoxious  title, knowing fully well that this forum is open to the world.
  NONSENSE!!!!

Young man, in what cave have you been hiding in the "Steiermark"? Agreed Nigerians enjoy using conspiracy theories more than known facts to buttress their arguement, yet this topic the poster is discussing has bee generating a lot of arguement even in the West itself. You said you are in Graz and I wonder if you really are in Europe. If you were in Europe, you would have heard about the Madagascarn troubles, the many pheasant Ethiopian farmers displaced without compensation from their farms. The case is also true in South Sudan and some other African countries.

Our people are damned greedy and the Oyinbo unfortunately know that. We have witnessed this kind of catastrophy before when millions of our people were sold as commodities for centuries. And the big culprit were the Africans themselves. I am very sure you embody what you are accusing the poster of if you dont know that a lot of Africans are suffering from this land grab already.

Not all topics on Nairaland are really daft. And this one is really is a genuine case.

BTW, what do you mean by this :What an obnoxious  title, knowing fully well that this forum is open to the world.?
Are you suggesting that the "intelligent" Oyinbo people dont know the psychological composition of an "average" AFRICAN? I think you are living in Austria abi? The mind genius Sigmund Freund was an Austrian, so also that crazy HITLER. Go to the library and use the internet, you will discover what land grab is already doing to your African people.

Think about these phrases:
[list]
[li]Researchers say foreign investors are profiting from "land grabs" that often fail to deliver the promised benefits of jobs and economic development, [/li]
[li]In Tanzania, the memorandum of understanding between the local government and US-based farm development corporation AgriSol Energy, which is working with Iowa University, stipulates that the two main locations – Katumba and Mishamo – for their project are refugee settlements holding as many as 162,000 people that will have to be closed before the $700m project can start. The refugees have been farming this land for 40 years.[/li]
[li]In Ethiopia, a process of "villagisation" by the government is moving tens of thousands of people from traditional lands, [/li]
[li]"Most of these deals are characterised by a lack of transparency, despite the profound implications posed by the consolidation of control over global food markets and agricultural resources by financial firms,", [/li]
[/list]

The future of many people are at stake! It is better you start sensitizing your governments on the implications of forcibly evicting farmers from their lands without compensation or providing alternative means of livelihood than castigating someone who is making you aware of the fact that the choicest of your land are being exchanged for peanuts.

See, thats the thing, the white man always comes up with the ideas first. What is wrong if other African countries such as Nigeria, or South Africa invest buy these lands, it also boils down to Africans not trusting each other,

I don't expect any sane person to defend this.

Land is fixed in supply, guys.

Sell your land to foreigners and you are done for. FACT!

Why is this land grab ONLY happening in Africa.


Easy-to-cheat peeps, innit?

This is exactly what Hitler"s nazi Govt did in the 1940s under the Lebensraum policy when he attempted to create large living spaces for the aryan Germans in eastern europe at the expense of the Polish and Russians because Hitler believed they were inferior to the Germans.In this case the West is trying to displace africans from their own land and enslave them and we are proving to the West that we are really inferior.

stmarc32:

I specifically stated  one thing there and that was to nationalize everything, also  Cuba has alot less to offer when it comes to natural resources ,  Nigeria on the other hand has the capability to export both  Agricultural products and Crude oil and if america is not buying asia will,   and if nationalization does happen it means better employment opportunities for Nigerians,

And you have the know hows? IF you must emulate, emulate intelligently. Cuba I am afraid is a no go in terms of economic development policies. Forget US sanctions, Cuba is a country where a few people dictate. China is free paradise compared to Cuba. BTW, Asia is on the lips of many including yourself for obvious reasons.

tom28:

This is exactly what Hitler"s nazi Govt did in the 1940s under the Lebensraum policy when he attempted to create large living spaces for the aryan Germans in eastern europe at the expense of the Polish and Russians because Hitler believed they were inferior to the Germans.In this case the West is trying to displace africans from their own land and enslave them and we are proving to the West that we are really inferior.

exactly - europeans unlike africans always think ahead.  The long term objective is the total approriation of the most fertile land in africa - where have we heard this before? once they secure all the choice land, the next phase is to rehabilitate their growing populations - didnt this happen in south africa?  Any nigerians who supports this are beyond help.

The europeans have always used their  cunning behaviour to fool africans and they are still succeeding in the 21st century despite the fact that many who support this claim to be educated -
Zimbabwe is yet to extricate itself from the appropriation of large tracts of land by europeans, this situation is accelerating and before long africans will become aliens in their own land, if you think the europeans and other foreign investors will hand this land back to you willingly you need your head examined.