larride:


Ok. Let's blame the victims.

Since these guys have been sweeping Express and expressway, how many accident or causalities have we had?

larride:


Suddenly you don't know the meaning of reckless driving again and have now resorted to whataboutism.

Issokay.

larride:


Nobody is talking about someone that is running to cross a expressway.

We are talking of a car running over someone that's standing beside a kerb.

Context matters and all this spinning is not necessary.

GloriousGbola:


In 1999 or thereabouts I was in suleja. Me and white boy. We entered a 504 going to ilorin. The man drove onto the express and at the same time a pair of lunatic wheel barrow carrier ran across the road. If the man had not swerved to avoid the idiot we may have been alright
He swerved, lost control hit the idiots and the car almost flipped.

All of us in the car could have been injured or killed because of fools running across the road.

GloriousGbola:



The cleaners I meet are always by the divider. In the fast lane. I am not supposed to slow down on Apapa oshodi expressway. There is no difference between the cleaners being there and a broken down car being there

The difference is if I hit the car they may find the owner liable, but I hit the cleaner I will be found liable.

larride:


Just read the accident happens while Lastma was chasing a Sienna guy. It was the Sienna guy that killed the 2 Lawma cleaners.

Something needs to be done with the way these Latsma guys behave when it comes to private cars as compared to how they just overlook danfo drivers that commit the same offense.

DissTroy:


Let's not do whataboutism. I'm not bashing the North. This conversation is an offshoot of an article written by Nigeria's top 3 tech blogs, Tech Cabal.

I'm simply expatiating on the salient points it raised; giving contexts for why it is so.

larride:


It is actually reckless driving as most times those Lawma cleaners usually have a cone for caution whenever they are sweeping. It's not as if those women were trying to cross the road.

The system is not perfect tbh but this particular incident is reckless driving fueled by Lastma.

izzou:


I am not blaming the victims. I have been in a position during my Uber days when i almost hit one of these LASG cleaners

She was even using a bucket as her cone. I scattered the bucket, but didn't get to her.

The argument is not funny. No human being should be on the expressway. Even road construction companies give a lot of distance and warning signs just to work there.

How can a government give someone a cone, and expect disaster not to happen one day?

liveLongNprospa:


So na both driver and lastma them go hold responsible?

GloriousGbola:




In a true libertarian society govt does nothing and the free market is responsible for security etal.

That's why I say Nigeria is a libertarian society
If robbers are around you have to settle police before they come. If there is fire and fire service comes you have to get water for them. If there is power issue we have to buy our own transformer.

That is a true libertarian system.

larride:


This accident happens because the driver was over speeding because he wanted to evade arrest from Lastma. The women sweeping there did nothing wrong and if not for the stupid reckless driver, they will still be alive right now.

larride:


Go to google and just search reckless driver kills passerby in Lagos and see how the search result will turn out for you.

This accident occurred because of a reckless driver, no where in your post since this discussion started have you even condemned the reckless driver but you are asking me how I know if the driver is reckless or not or if a car hit person, does it mean the driver is at fault.

This accident happens because the driver was over speeding because he wanted to evade arrest from Lastma. The women sweeping there did nothing wrong and if not for the stupid reckless driver, they will still be alive right now.

Just 2 days ago, a reckless driver run over a passerby in Ogba because he was over speeding and lost control of the car. The victim wasn't sweeping on the expressway neither was he trying to cross the expressway. The victim was just on his own walking on because his life was cut short by the reckless driver just the same way those women life was cut short today by that reckless driver.

If you want to blame the victims and not the reckless driver, you can go ahead and do that, I'm done with this conversation.

Thanks

larride:


Lagos really need more stiff penalties for reckless driving. A manslaughter charge or outright murder charge in this case will suffice.

At your last paragraph, I really hope LASG take care of the family of the departed. It's a sad and avoidable loss.

GloriousGbola:



The cleaners I meet are always by the divider. In the fast lane. I am not supposed to slow down on Apapa oshodi expressway. There is no difference between the cleaners being there and a broken down car being there

The difference is if I hit the car they may find the owner liable, but I hit the cleaner I will be found liable.

Amoto94:

I get the points you are trying to make but there is bias when it comes to funding

It's like marketing your skills - do it aggressively but have the skillsets to match it when opportunities come knocking.

liveLongNprospa:


Larride who you go blame?
The driver or the lastma who chased the driver?

liveLongNprospa:
Because when you drive in Lagos and deal with the lastma madness, it's easy for someone to label you as a "reckless driver"

GloriousGbola:
This is the divider used by construction crews. They fill it with water. This is an actual barrier. A traffic cone is not intended for keeping people safe on an expressway

I believe a large number of us here drive responsibly and we have all been in situations on lagos roads where we came close to hitting people who should simply not have been on the road. One time I hit a guy on a bicycle. I was torn between concern and anger. What the fk are you doing riding a bicycle on an expressway?

Reckless drivers and unsafe working conditions both exist. Infact for that reason the govt should actually stop any day time road cleaning. Or put PROPER safeguards in place. On average death of road sweepers are in the news at least twice a year.

Yet LASG has not take the time to do a proper review of the root causes. Because the easy thing to do is arrest and fine the driver. Revenue generated even if by death of an easily replaced cleaner.

larride:


Go back to my second post to BlueRayDick.

At first I blamed the driver alone, when I got new information about lastma, I came and added that context to it.

The fact of the matter is that the driver hit and killed those women because he was trying to flee (overspeeding) away from lastma that was chasing him.

Lastma fault here is clear because they don't really need to chase the guy to fine him for breaking a traffic offense.

The driver is also reckless for overspending without caution that lead to the death of 2 women.

BlueRayDick:


I think u are missing something here. It's established the driver while trying to escape LASTMA arrest killed the two cleaners, but what izzou and glorious are saying is this; If those women were not sweeping the expressway they definitely will still be alive now. Sweeping an expressway is an extremely dangerous work which Lagos state should not be encouraging.

If LASG want people to still be cleaning the expressway, then they must go all out to put in place serious safety measures to protect the cleaners going forward.

BlueRayDick:


I think u are missing something here. It's established the driver while trying to escape LASTMA arrest killed the two cleaners, but what izzou and glorious are saying is this; If those women were not sweeping the expressway they definitely will still be alive now. Sweeping an expressway is an extremely dangerous work which Lagos state should not be encouraging.

If LASG want people to still be cleaning the expressway, then they must go all out to put in place serious safety measures to protect the cleaners going forward.

At the venue, some street cleaners were seen ranting, accusing the state government of endangering their lives.

larride:


If the driver that was overspeeding didnt hit them, won't they be alive right now also?

The issue I'm having with their premise is that they are trying to absolve the driver of any blame.

izzou:


Excerpts from the same thread

BlueRayDick:


U are the one assuming they are absolving the driver of blame. I just saw the news on FP now and from the report it appears even the cleaners are blaming the state government for endangering their lives.

The fact that Lagos roads have so many reckless driver is enough for LASG to discontinue the idea of cleaners sweeping highways. No matter how u look at it, cleaners sweeping highway is a disaster waiting to happen.

BlueRayDick:


If I'm to apportion blame to all parties involved, I believe LASG/LAWMA takes the larger portion of the blame for stationing those cleaners there on the highway.

I will blame LASTMA and the driver equally for causing the death of the cleaners while engaging in their rat/cat race of who will outsmart each other in recklessness.

izzou:


The driver should be blamed, definitely. I don't know what he is running for.

But what i am telling Larride is that he should not pretend as if sweeping an expressway is safe. Standing there alone is risky.

All these would have been averted if those women were not there

izzou:


The driver should be blamed, definitely. I don't know what he is running for.

But what i am telling Larride is that he should not pretend as if sweeping an expressway is safe. Standing there alone is risky.

All these would have been averted if those women were not there