debosky:

I am addressing the SPECIFIC issue in this particular episode, not the historical grouses of the Isoko people or the wider Niger Delta. The current issues are non-involvement in the transfer of leases, not an attempt to remove all petroleum exploitation from their lands.

As for the education piece, your fellow brother ono will tell you that I am very well informed on the subject.

If you knew as much as you claimed, you'd realise that Shell only 'owned' (the actual term is leased as all land belongs to the FG) 30% of the land.

erico2k2:

@ ekt_bear
They have violated the terms, ie they only leant of the sale after it was made hence the outcry.
Dont 4get these guys have been dealing with SPDC for the past 50 years,so they know when they arfe up to no good,dont get me wrong, SPDC had improved in some areas  but more need to be done,what they have done is recycle.Translation cut cost.The sad part of this is that theses changes are done by Nigerians too.Im gonna talk to men on ground to know what they have added or removed from the terms and condition of exploration that trigard the who kasala.

debosky:

Read the story again - apparently they violated the integrity of the bidding process to surreptitiously bring in another company that failed to win the bid.

Secondly, like others have posted, the leases usually have an integral community relations agreement on the types of developmental activities/employment that would be offered to the host community. To initiate the change without due consultation is a violation of due process.

In Nigeria that is a big IF - we have heard numerous cases of deals being reneged on wantonly so I am not surprised by the circumspect view of the communities. They need to be able to assess the bidders ab initio and give a view on what would be best suited to their needs, instead of being handed a fait accompli.

That is akin to a Swiss Bank telling Nigerians that "what we do with Abacha's gold is none of your business"

Beaf:

Ok, got you. My bad.

Shell might only own 30% of the lease, but they are the ones putting the land to use, not the FG. Secondly, because of the wretched state of human rights in Nigeria, it is more useful to attack a body with international presence and gain the Worlds attention.
Attacking the FG for human rights and legal issues has always proven to be a weak trick in ND and Nigerian affairs; afterall they killed Saro Wiwa and gave out Bakassi (weeping inhabitants and all) to a foreign country.

ekt_bear:

But let's look at it from a slightly different perspective.

Suppose that the land had never been taken away from the oil producing communities. It still belonged wholly to them today. Would you all not have created something similar to NNPC? Would you not have auctioned off OMLs and found international oil companies to partner with your version of NNPC to extract the oil? The agreement you may have signed with Shell, for all we know might look exactly like the terms of the current one that the FG and NNPC have with Shell (where according to previous posters, a minority share of the OML is owned by Shell, with the majority %ge by NNPC).

If the above were the case:
A) would you give a sh1t about who Shell sells off their stake in the OML?
B) would you even have a moral or legal right to interfere?

ekt_bear:

Damn. 40k-> 10 million? That is insane.
[/quoteThats SHELL for you, if it was in the Uk that happened, do you know howmuch they would be fined lol see howmuch the US fined BP for that disaster on they offshore rig that colapased

debosky:

I agree with the bold text. However, attacking Shell will only reinforce their resolve to sell off and rid themselves of this constant bad publicity.

The communities would be acting in their best interests to demand audience with any new buyers before the sale is concluded instead of attacking Shell staff. This goes right back to my previous point - losing Shell's presence may do more harm than good if the new operators are less listening to community concerns and needs.

In other news, Shell has accepted liability for another spill in Ogoni - a spill close to 10 million barrels, much larger than the 40,000 barrels that Shell initially claimed.

Let's hope weakling GEJ will act on the latest environmental report indicting Shell to be presented tomorrow.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/aug/03/shell-liability-oil-spills-nigeria

erico2k2:

@ekt_bear
stop taking us back,this issue got nothing to do with LAND, we have defined that in earlier post, read backwards lol,I just talked to Men on ground just now,in the original LEASE teh comunity had a say in it,there where things said and signed and one of them was to give the first right of refusal to a LOCAL BIDDER ie if a LOCAL bidder can match an outsider he should first be offered.This is standard and well documented unless an agreement could not be reached then next bidder takes over evryone signs seal and deliver,Now in this case it was done behind closed doors now politics was at play from the top in this one, the OML 30 has the highest GAS Reserve in teh country,I say again you guys should guess who it was sold to,Im still waiting cos i got the answer, this is getting very intresting lol

Beaf:

Adenuga.

erico2k2:

@ekt_bear
stop taking us back,this issue got nothing to do with LAND, we have defined that in earlier post, read backwards  lol,

I just talked to Men on ground just now,in the original LEASE teh comunity had a say in it,there where things said  and signed and one of them was to give the first right of refusal to a LOCAL BIDDER ie if a LOCAL bidder can match an outsider he should first be offered.This is standard  and well documented unless an agreement could not be reached  then next bidder takes over evryone signs seal and deliver,Now in this case it was done behind closed doors now politics was at play from the top in this one, the OML 30 has the highest GAS Reserve in teh country,I say again you guys should guess who it was sold to,Im still waiting cos i got the answer, this is getting very intresting  lol

Beaf:

Weakling? Words are so cheap to you guys, the current govt is the first and only govt to face down the oil conglomerates. Deziani is back in place, regardless of whose feathers she is ruffling, so lets wait and see.

debosky:

No - what would have been created would be a LOCAL oil company at state/LG level, directly owned/accountable to the communities, not to some thieving government in Abuja. A company locally owned is far more likely to negotiate for terms that are acceptable to the communities, not serving the needs of Abuja politicians.

For example - if Delta state communities owned the oil rights and decided on what policy, they are far more likely to accept Shell shutting down wells till they provide gas gathering equipment to stop flaring, instead of the FG who say Shell should NOT cut production to stop flaring, ostensibly because it does not affect their cushy lives in Abuja.

If the company was local, Shell would not have been able to get away with the atrocities it has gotten away with in the first place. Shell is only leaving because of the troubles with communities - no one in their right minds will leave 2 billion barrels of easily produced light sweet crude in the ground.

Secondly, if the community was at the centre of the initial deal ( as would be the case with a local oil company) there would be no sale without the explicit agreement of the communities.

erico2k2:

lol I knew you was gonna come up wiv da answer, No you see where teh BEEF cometh from,see what this would mean ,these sale should be reviked and done the proper way, what do you recon?

debosky:

How has it faced down the oil conglomerates? Has it instructed them to stop flaring even if it costs some production? Has it instructed them to stop shipping in expats to the loss of Nigerian staff?

Instead under GEJ the PIB has been watered down so much and still not passed or implemented.

I stand by my claim that GEJ is a weakling till proven otherwise.

ekt_bear:

But in terms of revenue sharing, payouts, etc, the terms would largely be the same, yes?

If today NNPC were handed over to the local communities, they'd probably not (as) feel cheated, would they? 95% of their beef would go away, I suspect (correct me if I am wrong!)

Are these interests being sold at a heavy discount relative to their value? I do agree that their desire to exit is in part due to that reason. . . but that doesn't mean they are selling for much less than fair value.

Again, how does this work? Is this standard practice in the business? If I get a share in an OML say in Saudi or Mexico or some other oil producing country, I cannot sell unless my government partner gives me permission to do so?

debosky:

The terms cannot be the same - the billions of dollars frittered away in Abuja and by many states would have been invested in the ND communities, they would have the bulk of the jobs, not some Northerners far removed from the effects of oil exploitation.

You miss the point - this isn't about the fair value of the sale, it's more about the corrupted bidding process, where a bid loser was allowed to rebid slightly higher than the winner just to secure the lease - that indicates the process was rigged in favour of a particular bidder.

Shell is only leaving because of the troubles with communities - no one in their right minds will leave 2 billion barrels of easily produced light sweet crude in the ground.

In simple terms, yes.

The NNPC exercises both the right of first refusal, as well as approval rights for changes through NAPIMS http://www.napims.com/dynamic.html

Case in point - BP wanted to sell its interests in Algerian Joint Ventures to the Russians, but the Algerians said no - end of deal.

ahf:

Gas flaring still on is caused by NNPC and not SPDC (or the other multinationals).

All projects are funded by partners in ratio of their holdings. NNPC (the FG) has refused to provide funds to install gas gathering facitlities and have also refused to have the wells shut-in.

We "Nigerians" are our own problem. Instead of proposing/seeking solutions, we resort to molestation, tribalism,
insults and name calling.

Multinationals abandoning us, local cabal running the show, same ol same ol (if not even worse).

The company just wants to sell and leave those areas, the JV majority shareholder should act and have the sale done to whoever they please, so that this multinational excuse can go away.

GEJ in power, we are waiting for the changes,

erico2k2:

You are totaly wrong my friend,in all aspect you've just mention,I dont think you are familier with this field for arguments, when you said there was no funds for gas gaathering, thats a lame man talk right there unless you are telling us you have not heard or know what LPG is.

ekt_bear:

Right, but the terms of who gets what (as far as money goes) would be roughly the same. That the X dollars goes to NNPC and the FG rather than the ND doesn't mean that if the oil producing communities had negotiated a deal themselves, they'd not have gotten some value Y very close to X.

Y and X would be close to each other. . . this is what I mean when I say that the terms would be roughly the same.

My statement wasn't a commentary on the (what may be) corrupt bidding process. And unless I misread your statement, neither is what I quoted.

My response was to this statement of yours:Their share in each OML has some dollar value. My point is that of course even "2 billion barrels of easily produced . . . " can be sold off, assuming you get fair value for it (whatever the dollar value of the OML share is. An open bidding process will probably approximate this dollar value pretty well.) So it isn't correct to say that nobody would leave it. . . you'll leave it if someone pays you whatever it is worth.

So if that is the case, then what prevents NNPC or whoever from forcing a sale at a sweetheart price? From the perspective of the oil company, NNPC could arbitrarily depress the value you receive from selling your asset, if they were wanted to be malicious. Is there any real recourse they have?

erico2k2:
Good afternoon cos I just got in from work andits boiling here, I was hoping to get some silly comments from you like some others on here who have no logical way of thinking but thank God none lol so we can agree to disagree.
Wel Most people seem to think Niger Delta is Delta state, and Im afraid you are one of them lol Niger Delta is Edo+Delta+Bayelsa+Rivers states so its four states that makes up the Niger Delta according to the Niger Delta Comission and revenue derivation Act that them lot faught for,anyway I think you should pay attention to what Deboski is saying, he got it spot on,Im an Urhobo from Delta South,in My comunity we have 48 wells,so I aint no outsider when it comes to Oil problems.
While I was still back there, we gave so much trouble to NNPC and SPDC in as much that we came to a table talk, agreements where that %50 of rostabouts or general Labour would be employed form the local comunity,skilled workers %40,unless they the comunity could not fill those gaps then they could be sort from elsewhere the list goes on and that was embeded in the documents that acompanied the rights of them tehn to carry out their Oil exploration,now if Shell no go behind teh comunity's back and sell of the right to drill and facilitate Oil production in the area without inviting the comunity,dont you think they would wave all this clause in the eyes of the new buyers to make the sale more atractive to the new i nvestors? and all those previous conditions dropped?Now hope you know why the guys are angry,they aint into all that compensation these days,people are more wised up unlike in the 90s.Hope you understand where Im comming from.

Ibime:

Some braggatt aka "google Nigerian" says he feels sorry for Shell being caught up in FG and Niger Delta wahala. I laugh in Ekiti.

Its been proven time and time again that Shell are a guilty and complicit party in the whole sordid affair. I speak as a beneficiary of Shell. It was Shell that gave my pops scholarship to UK but if you ask him about Shell, he would say thunder fire them for everything they've done in his homeland. He even turned down job with them after completing their scholarship for the same reasons.
Let's revisist the facts.

Shell have been in Nigeria since the 50s.

(1.) They were there when OBJ issued the Petroleum and Land Acts and supported it.

(2.) They instituted gas flaring practices they would not dare in their own land

(3.) Even after Supreme Court order set a date to stop gas flaring, they breached the date and continue to disregard that edict and put pressure on FG to forget that law.

(4.) As wikileaks has shown, they have people in every Government Department and Ministry and continue to dictate Govt policy on Petroleum

(5.) As wikileaks has shown, they have fought tooth and nail against PIB which is only a "minor" redress for the crimes of the Petroleum and Land Acts

(6.) They hired helicopter gunships for the wanton slaughter of hundreds of Ogoni people

(7.) They pled culpability in the murder of the Ogoni 9 and paid compensation for it

(8.) Their operatives murdered the Ogoni woman on her farmland that brought the Ogoni crisis to a crescendo

(9.) Numerous other violation of human rights in many communities which I no get time for.


And some pleb want paint them as innocent party. They are partners in crime with the FG. Not only did they receive stolen goods, they were cheering from the sidelines when the goods were stolen.

Dede1:


It would have been nice if you get the facts correct. Since you do not know the states that made-up Niger Delta according to NDDC, it should be foolhardy to follow your plank of the argument.

ahf:

For you attention wells don't produce LPG, they produce either Associated Gas or Non-Associated Gas.

The one usually flared is the Associated Gas (AG) which requires processing equipment to be converted to more useful use. It is these processing equipment that the JV partners have to fund to ensure flares are put out. The Majority partner in the JV, i believe has the most power to drive this process.

Associated gas often cannot be used at remote wellheads and the whole stream has to be flared – wasting a valuable resource and contaminating the environment. Recovering LPG from these flare gases saves valuable hydrocarbons and enables them to be used locally, but equipment is needed for this.

It is also uneconomical if these AG is not gathered to a central point for LPG conversion which entails an AG pipeline to a central AG processing plant (ALSO REQUIRES EQUIPMENT AND COSTS MONEY !!)

erico2k2:

I know what Im on about,I was not defining NigerDelta in respect to Oil production,I was definning it geographically and the states which fall under theses zones are the four mentioned.

erico2k2:

guy, have you been to Bonny Island B4? if No, I would explain if YEs no need for explanation