GreatVocalist:

Then you don't love God. You have the mind of the pharisees and sadducees. Such form of righteousness will not get you to God, it will only take you farther from him.

LOL.... you folks never cease to amaze!

GreatVocalist:

That same Jesus Christ says many are called but few are chosen. The call is for all, meaning the kingdom is open to everyone.

Look here in John 3:3-5, he says only those who are born again and of the spirit will see and enter into the kingdom of God. Now he places this as a choice for everyone who hears the message of the kingdom. For those of us in the age of the gospel of Christ, the prerequisite for entering God's kingdom is simply believing and accepting the ultimate sacrifice of the lamb of God (Christ himself).

Are you not the very same who accused me of being self-righteous and hypocritical when I affirmed what is the Truth of Jesus Christ which is that Salvation is for the few, just moments ago?

GreatVocalist:
It is abundantly evident that your obedience is not love-motivated. You're simply trying to keep the laws of “thou shalt nots..” in the old testament.

Jesus Christ never said obedience has to first be love-motivated to begin with and I only obey Jesus Christ.

So you ought to ask yourself where this idea of "love motivated" obedience comes from as it is meaningless where Jesus Christ is concerned.

GreatVocalist:

It is in the same John 15:9-11 that you've been quoting blindly here since morning.

Aren't the very words of Jesus Christ reiterating that God's love is conditional?

GreatVocalist:

No, we're saying two different things.
From your notion, obedience is a prerequisite for salvation.
From the Bible, salvation is a prerequisite for obedience.

You are joking, right?

*Didn't Jesus Christ not command you must believe - John 3 vs 16?
*Didn't Jesus Christ command repentance of you - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 - along with baptism (born of water)?

Aren't these some of the prerequisites for those who seek to enter into the Kingdom of God - John 3 vs 5 - 8 - either through the broad gate or the Narrow gate - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 meaning you have to obey at least those basic commands to get into the Kingdom of God?

GreatVocalist:

This is how it is with God. You become exposed to greater dimensions of God the more you love him and keep his commandments, not out of duty. So in essence, there is a paradoxical nature in the love of God; meaning it is both unconditional and conditional (based on man's relationship with him after he has encountered unconditional love). Bible scholars call the second aspect of God's love “covenant love”.

This all yet more meaningless soundbites.

Again... isn't John 15 vs 9 - 11 the very words of Jesus Christ reiterating that God's love is conditional?

GreatVocalist:

And do you think that the very act of believing is done by a man?

Again....You are joking, right?

*Didn't Jesus Christ not command you must believe - John 3 vs 16?
*Didn't Jesus Christ command repentance of you - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 - along with baptism (born of water)?

Aren't these some of the prerequisites for those who seek to enter into the Kingdom of God - John 3 vs 5 - 8 - either through the broad gate or the Narrow gate - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 meaning you have to obey at least those basic commands to get into the Kingdom of God?

---

When the Pharisees went to be baptized was the act done by them or by some power apart from theirs?

GreatVocalist:

Ephesians 2: 8-9 - For by GRACE are
ye saved through FAITH; and that
NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the GIFT
OF GOD: Not of works, lest any man
should boast.
The point is that you didn't want to
believe in the first place. None of us
ever wants to believe that there's a
God somewhere with a kingdom who
loves us so dearly that he died for us,
even in our sinful state. It is the spirit
of God that keeps convicting us
(behind the scenes) until we finally
respond. If not for these promptings,
no man would respond to the gospel.
So don't boast in your “obedience”
because you couldn't have done it
without the saving presence of the
Holy spirit.

The Grace of God in Jesus Christ is simply a reference to Eternal life that is Jesus Christ. Those who are not born-again don't have Eternal life making your claim meaningless.

---

Recall that Jesus Christ is stated as being filled with Grace and Truth? Well in John 14 vs 6, Jesus Christ told you that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, meaning that in addition to God's Truth, He is also filled with God's Life which is the Grace of God in Jesus Christ .

GreatVocalist:

What do you understand by baptism?

Again....You are joking, right?

*Didn't Jesus Christ not command you must believe - John 3 vs 16?
*Didn't Jesus Christ command repentance of you - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 - along with baptism (born of water)?

Aren't these some of the prerequisites for those who seek to enter into the Kingdom of God - John 3 vs 5 - 8 - either through the broad gate or the Narrow gate - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 meaning you have to obey at least those basic commands to get into the Kingdom of God?

GreatVocalist:

What do you understand by being “born of water”?

And you asked earlier how come I did not see the fruits of obedience in you, right?

Again....You are joking, right?

*Didn't Jesus Christ not command you must believe - John 3 vs 16?
*Didn't Jesus Christ command repentance of you - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 - along with baptism (born of water)?

Aren't these some of the prerequisites for those who seek to enter into the Kingdom of God - John 3 vs 5 - 8 - either through the broad gate or the Narrow gate - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 meaning you have to obey at least those basic commands to get into the Kingdom of God?

GreatVocalist:

I fail to see how this connects to my claim and the subject at large. Please make this simple enough.

You pretend you can plead that people are saved by GRACE, this without a clear understanding of what Grace in fact refers to.

According to Jesus Christ, it is instead those who are believe, are born of water and of spirit that acquire God's grace in Jesus Christ- John 3 vs 1 - 21. Grace applies to none before obedience of the stipulated commandments. So, how can grace save anyone before it is even given?

GreatVocalist:

What do you understand by being “born of water” sir? It's a simple question. You keep quoting verses you don't even understand.

This discussion isn't about the nuances of the born of water step to being born-again so let's not deviate, shall we?

And for Pete's sake, stop mistaking your confusion for mine...

Kobojunkie:
John 3 vs 16 tells you that eternal life is only available to those who obey God's commandment to obey Jesus Christ, does it not? Meaning the offer of love is conditional .

Though I have refuse to quote you, but you are worst than the pharisees during the time of the Lord Jesus Christ. How can you say if you don't obey God, God cannot love you. Let me ask you, did God give us the Lord Jesus Christ to die for our sins due to our obeying or out of love.

GreatVocalist:

1. In essence, your submission is that you deserve to be saved? You deserve the grace and mercy of God because you chose to obey? All right then, so then what was the need for the coming of Christ? Why didn't God save everyone individually, what was the whole stress having to come down and die “for the sins of men”?

2. I dare you to spell out all these verses you blindly attach and explain them bit by bit.

Deserve? Another one from the meaningless soundbites that is Churchianism.

How can you claim to deserve something you are told by God that can only earn through obedience of His commandments and teachings?

Clearly, Jesus Christ taught that only those who believe, are born of water and born of Spirit will enter into the Kingdom of God .I.e. be born-again, receiving Eternal life(Grace) in addition - John 3 vs. 1 - 21. What part of that indicates being deserving of Grace(Eternal Life)?

2. I already pretty much explained the references right where they are included. If you have specific questions about any particular reference, go ahead and list them.

GreatVocalist:

If being born of water is a supposed step to being born again, then it is important to know what it means and how it is a step. It's not a complete deviation. So let's talk about it, shall we?

John the Baptist explained it to you in Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 if that is what has got you stuck now.

So please get back to the discussion on obedience please.

delkuf:
Though I have refuse to quote you, but you are worst than the pharisees during the time of the Lord Jesus Christ. How can you say if you don't obey God, God cannot love you. Let me ask you, did God give us the Lord Jesus Christ to die for our sins due to our obeying or out of love.

Jesus Christ, the one who God told you to Obey is the one who made it even more clear that God's Love for you in Jesus Christ is conditioned on your obedience of His teachings and commandments - John 3 vs 16 and John 15 vs 9 - 11

Jesus Christ's offer of salvation oniy applies to those who accept and obey His teachings and commandments; this He made abundantly clear in all of His teachings and commandments. - Matthew 7 vs 24 - 29 & John 14 vs 20 - 24

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ, the one who God told you to Obey is the one who made it even more clear that God's Love for you in Jesus Christ is conditioned on your obedience of His teachings and commandments - John 3 vs 16 and John 15 vs 9 - 11

But you failed to put into consideration that we were still sinner when the Lord Jesus Christ died for us. That is not obey. That is love. You are save because God love you not because you obey God. Obedience is important but you are first save because God love you.

delkuf:
But you failed to put into consideration that we were still sinner when the Lord Jesus Christ died for us. That is not obey. That is love. You are save because God love you not because you obey God. Obedience is important but you are first save because God love you.

Stop spewing these meaningless soundbites and listen to Jesus Christ instead..

First of all, You are saved if you listen to and obey Jesus Christ - John 3 vs 1 -21 - making sure to stand faithful until the end - Matthew 24 vs 12 - 13 & Mark 13 vs 13. That is what Jesus Christ told you. He has been dead over 2000 years at this point. If you don't obey Him you will not be saved.

As for His love, He clearly told you that only those who obey Him can experience His love meaning if you sit back in what is disobedience of Jesus Christ's teachings and commandments - John 15 vs 9 - 11 - , you will never experience His Love(including His Heaven).

Jesus Christ is God's Heavenly Contract which you have to subscribe(submit/accept) to and obey the terms and conditions of the Contract in order to keep your membership(salvation) active and this you have to continue to do until you die.
▪︎ If you subscribe buy refuse to obey, Jesus Christ tells you that you will not experience His Love.
▪︎ if you reject the contract in its entirety, you will not experience Jesus Christ's Love
▪︎ oniy those who subscribe and obey the terms and conditions of the agreement until the end will enjoy the benefits here in this life eventually inheriting Heaven after the end.