tctrills:
What did I say? I have said many things, which do you mean?

That sons of God weren't messengers of God. Provide scriptural proof.

If some guys here could just understand that the bible isn't a word of any god, it would save them all this sweaty explanations. I just wonder how many people in future will take the stories of Chinua Achebe as the inspired word of God, Or how ridiculous will it sound when some people in the future begin to believe that C.S.Lewis chronicles of Narnia is the inspired word of God. Maybe some people will start praying to Aslan the Lion to come & save them.
This is 21st Century for god's sake,not the time to debate the myths of ancient Jews.They're stories just to lure children to sleep,not for adults to believe. This people self,wetin dem dey teach una for school?

elated177:


Genesis 6: 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

If the "sons of God" here meant human males, why was it specifically stated that they saw the "daughters of human"? Weren't human males observing the beauty of the daughters of other humans from the beginning?

Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

From the Scripture, it could be clearly seen that the "sons of God" were angels (messengers) and not human males.

Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, etc, were all humans and they all married their fellow human beings. It was nothing strange.

So, the sons of God mentioned in the Scriptures above were messengers (angels).

Genesis 6 vv 4 said the nephilims were already on earth when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men meaning the nephilims were not the product of of the marriage between the sons of God and daughters of men because they were present when he marriage takes place.
As for the identity of the Sons of God, there is also evidence that they might be humans but however if they are fallen angels then they could have possessed human body in any case the children would still be humans.

Templee333:
If some guys here could just understand that the bible isn't a word of any god, it would save them all this sweaty explanations. I just wonder how many people in future will take the stories of Chinua Achebe as the inspired word of God, Or how ridiculous will it sound when some people in the future begin to believe that C.S.Lewis chronicles of Narnia is the inspired word of God. Maybe some people will start praying to Aslan the Lion to come & save them.
This is 21st Century for god's sake,not the time to debate the myths of ancient Jews.They're stories just to lure children to sleep,not for adults to believe. This people self,wetin dem dey teach una for school?

The bible is the word of God, prophecies in the bible has been proven to true.
Jesus is a real historical person who fulfilled bible prophecy.

Steep:
Genesis 6 vv 4 said the nephilims were already on earth when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men meaning the nephilims were not the product of of the marriage between the sons of God and daughters of men because they were present when he marriage takes place.
As for the identity of the Sons of God, there is also evidence that they might be humans but however if they are fallen angels then they could have possessed human body in any case the children would still be humans.

Whose bodies did these angels possess here?

Genesis 18: 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

Or here?

Genesis 19: The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

I don't think messengers (angels), whether fallen or otherwise, need to possess anybody. However, I will change my view if I get any scriptural proof.

Why do you think the Messiah, as a heavenly being - God in this case, was able to appear to his disciples and disappear and then ascend to heaven in their presence?


About the nephilim, I am still considering that portion. I thought they were the offspring of the fallen messengers and the daughters of men.

Janosky:

Man made theory not holy scriptures.

It is there in the bible.

Yes, Jesus said that. John 14:28 on earth and also in heaven, Revelation 3:12.

So you agree that atleast Jesus was a man but at what point did Jesu stop being a man? Provide scriptural proof.

Revelation 3:12, Jesus Christ rejects your doctrine.
In heavenly realm, Jesus Christ is a worshipper.
Nobody is equal to his God receiving worship.
Revelation 3:12 & Ephesians 3:14-15.

Jesus is still a man even in heaven.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

If Jesus was not a man in heaven paul won't have called him the man.

elated177:


That sons of God weren't messengers of God. Provide scriptural proof.

You are confused. Don't you understand how this works? I did not even say that the Sons of God weren't messengers of God. All I said was simple. the Bible never called angels sons of God.

Janosky:

Oga Steep has rejected John 3:16, John 7:16 & John 4:34.

Revelation 1:1,5-6 & 1 Corinthians 11:3, hierarchy.
Isaiah 6:8, Yahweh the Lord God says: "Whom shall I send?"
John 7:16 & John 3:16, Yahweh the Lord God sends His messenger, Jesus.

John 3:16, John 7:16 & John 4:34, Jesus Christ doctrine belongs to his Superior God.

God the Father can send Jesus because Jesus is the word, Just the same way the holy spirit can be sent.

If you send your friend to do some thing does that mean your friend is less than you? No.

tctrills:
You are confused. Don't you understand how this works? I did not even say that the Sons of God weren't messengers of God. All I said was simple. the Bible never called angels sons of God.

Don't you realize that you are the one who is confused? Do you not know that messengers = angels?

Janosky:

Yes. God's son Jesus Christ is 2nd Adam.

good, do you know the meaning of Adam?

John 5:37 & John 3:16, Jesus Christ confirm he is not God.

The God Almighty is not a man, John 5:37.

God is not not a man,who said so before. Jesus divine nature did not change from being God rather he added the full human nature.

Oga, your faulty claim is Man made theory not holy scriptures.
Greek John 4:24 , John 5:37 & Numbers 23:19, the God Almighty (ho Theos) is not a man.
The God Almighty (ho Theos ) is NEVER flesh.>

looks like you do not know what ho theos mean, it is just greek gramma of rendering God.

Why would God Almighty have a Father in heaven where he is Almighty?
John 3:16 & Revelation 3:12, Jesus Christ no believe you.
Trinity na scam.
Revelation 1:1 & Revelation 3:12, Jesus Christ is a worshipper. Confirmed.

Ok.

Why will God Almight have a father? God Almighty is a triune being. The father, Son and Holy Spirit are the personalities of each individuals of the one God. It speaks of their role and the way the relate with each other.
Na you be scam.

elated177:



Whose bodied did these angels possess here?

Genesis 18: 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

Or here?

Genesis 19: The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

I don't think messengers (angels), whether fallen or otherwise, need to possess anybody. However, I will change my view if I get any scriptural proof.

Why do you think the Messiah, as a heavenly being - God in this case, was able to appear to his disciples and disappear and then ascend to heaven in their presence?


About the nephilim, I am still considering that portion. I thought they were the offspring of the fallen messengers and the daughters of men.

I have already dealt with the issue of fallen angels-demons.
What make fallen angels fallen is that their angelic nature has being corrupted and they are now demons.
Even lucifer need to posses Judas in other to directly make use of him.
Read carefully Genesis 6 vv4, I used to think the Nephillims were children of angels until I read it properly.
It says the Nephillims were present in those days meaning when the sons of God married the daughters of men, the Nephillims were already present so how are they now the children of the sons of God?

elated177:


Don't you realize that you are the one who is confused? Do you not know that messengers = angels?

Oga do you even understand what we are talking about? I agree, angels are messengers.

tctrills:
Oga do you even understand what we are talking about? I agree, angels are messengers.

tctrills:

The bible made it clear. It only referred to men and to Jesus Christ as sons of God. If you are asking if God had followers before the children of Isreal, he surely did.
But let's assume he did not, It still does not make angels sons of God. Even today, God does not have any particular race as his sons. Even you can be a son of God even though you are not a Jew.

What has your position on this thread been?

elated177:





What has your position on this thread been?

Please read

Steep:
I have already dealt with the issue of fallen angels-demons.
What make fallen angels fallen is that their angelic nature has being corrupted and they are now demons.
Even lucifer need to posses Judas in other to directly make use of him.
Read carefully Genesis 6 vv4, I used to think the Nephillims were children of angels until I read it properly.
It says the Nephillims were present in those days meaning when the sons of God married the daughters of men, the Nephillims were already present so how are they now the children of the sons of God?

Aren't they called "fallen" because they were thrown down from heaven.

Fallen angels are not demons and demons are not fallen angels. Demons are the disembodied spirits of the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Do you know that Satan represents the powers of darkness? The verse may as well be saying that darkness entered Judas. I don't think fallen angels possess humans. Influence? Yes!

tctrills:

Please read

You need to go through the thread and confirm what you have been on about here.

elated177:


You need to go through the thread and confirm what you have been on about here.

Ok bye

tctrills:

The bible made it clear. It only referred to men and to Jesus Christ as sons of God. If you are asking if God had followers before the children of Isreal, he surely did.
But let's assume he did not, It still does not make angels sons of God. Even today, God does not have any particular race as his sons. Even you can be a son of God even though you are not a Jew.

Thanks for having a starting without finishing!

Angels are the real sons of God (intelligent spirit beings) before God created humans in the image of intelligent beings {Genesis 1:26} as a matter of fact only Adam and Jesus fully worth being called Sons of God for real {Luke 3:38; John 3:16} because they are all perfect creatures. As for all other humans we are not qualified to be called God's children as we have inherited sin through Adam's disobedience {Romans 5:12} only imperfect humans who are able to put on the New Personality that we perceive in Jesus {Ephesians 4:24} could become Sons of God for real! John 1:12

For your information that's why Jesus told us that all humans born by women no matter who the person is lesser than John the baptist {Matthew 11:11} because none of them is a real son of God like Adam who was created perfect before he decided to rebel against God. But all those that are able to put on the new personality will be qualified fully to be called God's children!

MaxInDHouse:


Thanks for having a starting without finishing!

Angels are the real sons of God (intelligent spirit beings) before God created humans in the image of intelligent beings {Genesis 1:26} as a matter of fact only Adam and Jesus fully worth being called Sons of God for real {Luke 3:38; John 3:16} because they are all perfect creatures. As for all other humans we are not qualified to be called God's children as we have inherited sin through Adam's disobedience {Romans 5:12} only imperfect humans who are able to put on the New Personality that we perceive in Jesus {Ephesians 4:24} could become Sons of God for real! John 1:12

For your information that's why Jesus told us that all humans born by women no matter who the person is lesser than John the baptist {Matthew 11:11} because none of them is a real son of God like Adam who was created perfect before he decided to rebel against God. But all those that are able to put on the new personality will be qualified fully to be called God's children!

You continue to prove my point but not yours. Just show one scripture where angels are called sons of God. Human logic does not lead to eternal truths. And all this talk about Ephesians 4:24, John 1:12, and Matthew 11:11 are completely off-topic. Please get back to the topic.

I have given you a fair chance to show that angels are Sons of God but you just cant. Yet you expect me to take your word for it.

tctrills:

You continue to prove my point but not yours. Just show one scripture where angels are called sons of God. Human logic does not lead to eternal truths. And all this talk about Ephesians 4:24, John 1:12, and Matthew 11:11 are completely off-topic. Please get back to the topic.

I have given you a fair chance to show that angels are Sons of God but you just cant. Yet you expect me to take your word for it.

Ọmọ no be JWs translated NIV where it clearly stated that the sons of God are angels!

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ no be JWs translated NIV where it clearly stated that the sons of God are angels!

In what verse? Please which verse in NIV states that angels are sons of God? You just made a claim, hope you can substantiate it.

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ no be JWs translated NIV where it clearly stated that the sons of God are angels!

Please whenever you find the verse that clearly states the sons of God are angels just post. You guys believe in tales by moonlight. Sometimes you should question your pastors when they come up with these stories.
Why are angels no longer coming to earth to Bleep women? Don't they desire women anymore? Again if angels are spirits as you claim, why do they have sexual urges for women? Do spirits have dicks and hormones? How come none of the angels were gay?
Even a child can tell, this is a fairy tale.

elated177:


Aren't they called "fallen" because they were thrown down from heaven.

The word fallen angel is not in the bible it is a theology concept and No they are not called "fallen because they were kicked out of heaven rather they are fallen because they rebelled against God and as a result they became corrupted.

Fallen angels are not demons and demons are not fallen angels. Demons are the disembodied spirits of the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men.

fallen angels are demons, for example lucifer is called a devil which means he is a demon. Go and check the meaning of demon

Do you know that Satan represents the powers of darkness? The verse may as well be saying that darkness entered Judas. I don't think fallen angels possess humans. Influence? Yes!

The power of darkness are demons, since the devil is the a demon.
It does not matter what you think but what the bible teaches.
The verse did not say darkness entered judas, are you going to re write the bible because it does not suit your sentiment?

In the bible darkness means sin, ignorance of God's knowledge, a mystery.

The bible said Satan entered Judas.

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

tctrills:
Please whenever you find the verse that clearly states the sons of God are angels just post. You guys believe in tales by moonlight. Sometimes you should question your pastors when they come up with these stories.
Why are angels no longer coming to earth to Bleep women? Don't they desire women anymore? Again if angels are spirits as you claim, why do they have sexual urges for women? Do spirits have dicks and hormones? How come none of the angels were gay?
Even a child can tell, this is a fairy tale.

All you need is a Bible study.
In the Bible book of Job 38:7 Moses's clear writing is enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the sons of God who were present during creation aren't humans!

The bible is consistent,
There is no word called "fallen angel" in the bible.
The word "angel" actually means messenger or servant.
In the bible there are angels of God and there are devils.
Devils are also called unclean spirits, foul spirit or demons.
Lucifer is actually a devil, he possessed Judas iscariot.
He is called the prince of this world. John 14 vv30
The prince of the power of the air. Ephesians 2:2
Who are the angels? Of the devil

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The angels of the devil are the fallen angels according to Revelation 12:9

The devil and his angels would be cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Angels of the devil are demons.

MaxInDHouse:


All you need is a Bible study.
In the Bible book of Job 38:7 Moses's clear writing is enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the sons of God who were present during creation aren't humans!

Do you are if I read Job 38.7 in the NIV, it states that angels are the sons of God?

MaxInDHouse:


All you need is a Bible study.
In the Bible book of Job 38:7 Moses's clear writing is enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the sons of God who were present during creation aren't humans!

Job 38.7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
Are you kidding yourself?

tctrills:

Job 38.7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?
Are you kidding yourself?

Check other versions and see for yourself that the angels there means the sons of God!

MaxInDHouse:


Check other versions and see for yourself that the angels there means the sons of God!

I just did.
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy
I am sure this was not what you meant to send

tctrills:

I just did.
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy
I am sure this was not what you meant to send

When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? ~ NWT

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ~ Holy Bible

while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? NIV

when the morning stars sang together,
and all the sons of God shouted for joy? RSV

Stop deceiving yourself!

Steep:


The word fallen angel is not in the bible it is a theology concept and No they are not called "fallen because they were kicked out of heaven rather they are fallen because they rebelled against God and as a result they became corrupted.

You are holding tenaciously to your own views and you feel you can compel another person to abandon his own and subscribe to yours. Clap for yourself.

The word "fallen" is not used in the Scriptures to describe the group of messengers who were cast down from heaven. However, it is used to differentiate them from the messengers of YHVH Almighty. They are fallen because they were thrown down from heaven.

Steep:

fallen angels are demons, for example lucifer is called a devil which means he is a demon. Go and check the meaning of demon

Fallen messengers are not demons. We are never going to agree with each other on this issue. The Scripture would have been the deciding factor, but no where is it expressly stated so.

Steep:

The power of darkness are demons, since the devil is the a demon.

Demons are part of the powers of darkness. There are many devils. A devil can also be a demon and a demon is also a devil. Satan is "the devil", the chief of devils. The fallen messengers are also devils but Satan is their chief.

Steep:

It does not matter what you think but what the bible teaches.

I think along what my Scriptures expressly teach. Also, I have the Set-apart Spirit of YHVH Almighty, my Father in heaven, to help me think correctly and in line with what the Scriptures teach. So, steep, what I think matters.

Steep:

The verse did not say darkness entered judas, are you going to re write the bible because it does not suit your sentiment?

What does Satan, the devil, represent? Do try to emotionally blackmail me. It won't work. What sentiment are you on about? If Satan is the chief among the rulers of darkness of this world, is wrong to say that satan is darkness?

Steep:

In the bible darkness means sin.

Who is the master of sin?

Steep:

The bible said Satan entered Judas.

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

What does Satan represent?

I know what the Scripture says. It says Satan entered into Judas. I am telling you that Satan represents evil.

MaxInDHouse:


When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause? ~ NWT

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ~ Holy Bible

while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? NIV

when the morning stars sang together,
and all the sons of God shouted for joy? RSV

Stop deceiving yourself!

So different versions opposing themselves. Which version is correct and which is wrong because they are saying different things.
Which which we settle on?
When you use different versions clearly one is wrong. Which is the wrong version.