nlMediator:

According to the site you posted, Leigh Anderson gave this closing comment:

“Let’s encourage tithing, and especially encourage generosity. But don’t steal from grandpa’s prescription fund in order to give 10 percent to the church. Sometimes there are emergencies and situations that take a priority like providing for your family. But stick with that guideline. Try to be generous, and 10 percent is a good guideline, but it is not a legal requirement in the New Testament.”

And?

If there’s any tithing preacher on this site or in Nigeria who believes in the above statement, I want to hear or read him say that. Not one of them I know or have heard makes any exceptions. The truth is that your discussion is out of context. When Nigerians are talking of tithes, they’re talking of something very different from what you’re saying. Using the word tithe, which you use in a different context from theirs, is not helpful.

No, I don't think you should make such hasty generalizations and conclude erroneously. For one, there are some who may not be Nigerians nor live in Nigeria, and yet they discuss tithing on this forum. Second, tithing affects us all - and when discussants are on to the subject, they have the whole Church in view and not just the Nigerian scenario. Third, even from within Nigeria I don't think that there's not even a single pastor that does not preach tithes on voluntray basis - so the highlighted part in your comment is inaccurate.

I also have serious doubts about your conclusion that an overwhelming majority of evangelical leaders tithe. What I read is that an overwhelming majority of those who responded tithe. Unless, you’re sure that the survey got a huge response, your conclusion is without basis.

I noted that there are other independent sources and references - if the reader could make a little search rather than stay on the anti-tithing stereotypes. I gave just one of several sources yo capture the reality in brief rather than post encyclopedias of what is actually happening.

nlMediator:

Setting aside something and setting aside a percentage are not coterminous. The New Testament talks of the former but not of the latter. Nor does it talk of setting aside the same thing or level every time, which is exactly what tithing of income says.

They actually are. Why? Because anything you set aside from a whole is actually a portion expressed in percentage. The only thing you may observe is that it is not a legalistically fixed or predetermined exactitude. From the sources highlighting the subject of tithes, we find it is only an approximation rather than an exactitude of a figure.

Joagbaje:

I was making reference to tithing. There is no place in the bible where God spoke against it or give contrary intruction. Jesus spoke against the observation of sababath and some other things which he fulfilled . That's my point.

Okay, I was wrong in misreading you. Sorry.

Joagbaje:


my point.

My church doesn't believe in the use of anointing oil. Only you understand what you're posting. You started well but I can see you've joined the bandwagon of mockers.

Joagbaje:


I was making reference to tithing. There is no place in the bible where God spoke against it or give contrary intruction. Jesus spoke against the observation of sababath and some other things which he fulfilled . That's my point.

My church doesn't believe in the use of anointing oil. Only you understand what you're posting. You started well but I can see you've joined the bandwagon of mockers.

I know we're all writing from a distance, so it makes it difficult for us to understand each person and their total belief system. I'm still the same person  - i.e., my allegiance is to the truth and I'm not aligned to anybody. If you say something I agree with, I'd be on your side. If you say something that's not clear to me to me or that I disagree with, I'll ask for clarifications or voice my objection. It's really sad that we want everybody to toe the same line at all times; otherwise he's a 'bad' person - in this case, a mocker. All well and good.

Your response on anointing oil makes the point I was raising. If the validity of a practice is based on (1) thousands of years of practice AND (2) lack of condemnation in the Bible, then your church should be embracing the anointing oil. And polygamy for members (not pastors and deacons). But you don't. So, when you select tithes among all the things that fit that criteria, it raises questions about your position. And if you think seeking answers to such inconsistency makes one a mocker, feel free to continue with the characterization.

Pastor Kun:

@wordtalk
You also claim there is nowhere in the new testament that tithing was negated. That is far from truth, I know we've been through this before but it is very clear from reading hebrews 7:5-19 that tithing was negated except as usual you want to force your own bias into scripture.

I'm not forcing a bias into Scripture. Hebrews 7:15-19 does not negate tithing in itself, just as it does not negate priesthood in and of itself. The portion you cited is dealing with two different priesthoods and the basis of their establishment. There is no verse in the Bible that teaches that tithes were the foundation for establishing priesthoods.

wordtalk:

They actually are. Why? Because anything you set aside from a whole is actually a portion expressed in percentage. The only thing you may observe is that it is not a legalistically fixed or predetermined exactitude. From the sources highlighting the subject of tithes, we find it is only an approximation rather than an exactitude of a figure.

Wow! This response takes the cake. They're only the same in the sense that everything we have or do can be reduced to percentages. Otherwise, they're night and day. I can set aside 10% of time  to browse the internet. I can also set aside 24 minutes to browse the internet sometimes and 30 minutes some other time. Of course, 24 minutes is 1% of my time, but percentage was not in the equation when I set aside the 24 minutes. Nor am I violating any rule of mine when I switch to 30 minutes. With tithe, it's a fixed percentage of 10%. Not any amount that can now be categorized as a percentage. In summary, if the government says your tax bracket is 28% of your income and afterwards come up with a different policy that says everybody should pay what they like, you'd still say the guy that pays random amounts of his income is paying taxes based on a percentage and is in the same boat that pays a FIXED percentage?

nlMediator:


Your response on anointing oil makes the point I was raising. If the validity of a practice is based on (1) thousands of years of practice AND (2) lack of condemnation in the Bible, then your church should be embracing the anointing oil.

anointing oil was never Recomended by Jesus for the church,  neither did he use it. So why should we embrace it. The oil used by Jews was medicinal. The spiritual anointing oil was for putting men into office .

And polygamy for members (not pastors and deacons).

every one of our members are potential ministers. So whats good for the bishop is good for them too.

So, when you select tithes among all the things that fit that criteria, it raises questions about your position. And if you think seeking answers to such inconsistency makes one a mocker, feel free to continue with the

I didn't select tithes . I'm taking a stand on the word. Tithing is an everlasting ordinance. Offering is everlasting ordinance . They go together . You can say you don't believe in tithing but you give God offering . It is hypocrisy because they are based on same spiritual principle.

wordtalk:

And?

No, I don't think you should make such hasty generalizations and conclude erroneously. For one, there are some who may not be Nigerians nor live in Nigeria, and yet they discuss tithing on this forum. Second, tithing affects us all - and when discussants are on to the subject, they have the whole Church in view and not just the Nigerian scenario. Third, even from within Nigeria I don't think that there's not even a single pastor that does not preach tithes on voluntray basis - so the highlighted part in your comment is inaccurate.

I noted that there are other independent sources and references - if the reader could make a little search rather than stay on the anti-tithing stereotypes. I gave just one of several sources yo capture the reality in brief rather than post encyclopedias of what is actually happening.

Hasty generalizations and conclusions? Inaccurate? Where is the conclusion or generalization? I said that IF such a preacher exists, I'll like to read from him. How's that a conclusion? A conclusion would be saying there's no such preacher. But I was very careful not to say that, since I do not know. On the site being used by non-Nigerians, of course that is common knowledge. It does not change the fact that a lot of the discussion is coming from a Nigerian Christian context. You need not use a 'belief' somewhere to explain a different belief in Nigeria that goes by the same name.

Regarding your claim that evangelical leaders overwhelmingly tithe, you cannot get away from the conclusion by saying that you have other sources, unless those sources have data showing that. I'd like to see such.

nlMediator:

Wow! This response takes the cake. They're only the same in the sense that everything we have or do can be reduced to percentages. Otherwise, they're night and day. I can set aside 10% of time  to browse the internet. I can also set aside 24 minutes to browse the internet sometimes and 30 minutes some other time. Of course, 24 minutes is 1% of my time, but percentage was not in the equation when I set aside the 24 minutes. Nor am I violating any rule of mine when I switch to 30 minutes. With tithe, it's a fixed percentage of 10%. Not any amount that can now be categorized as a percentage. In summary, if the government says your tax bracket is 28% of your income and afterwards come up with a different policy that says everybody should pay what they like, you'd still say the guy that pays random amounts of his income is paying taxes based on a percentage and is in the same boat that pays a FIXED percentage?

Please sir, I'm not one of those to argue long and hard on exactitudes, because it is obvious that a closer look at the sources dealing on tithes do not make that kind of fastidious assertion. You will observe that even among anti-tithing theologians, the tithes they argue varying between 1%  to 10%  to  23.3%  to even 40% - and they all calling that "tithe".

Besides that, the source from the Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago (several volumes) shows an approximation rather than exactitudes. A few example:

  -  the palace has taken eight garments as your tithe (on 85 garments)

  -  eleven garments as tithe (on 112 garments)

  -  four minas of silver, the tithe of [the gods] Bel, Nabu, and Nergal (no mention of 40 here)

Would you say that 8 is exactly 10% of 85? Would you also argue that 11 is exactly 10% of 112? This is why I don't argue legalistically - and if the person I'm discussing with can't see the simple issue of approximates, then tough luck.

I thought that wordtalk had taken a class in accounting, but now he uses an example of income that is not correct.

The farmers had income when they sold or barter exchanged the crops. They did not tithe on that income. They tithed on the assets.

Wordtalk hasn't yet learned how to pick out the correct definition of a word. Many words have many meanings. You must pick out the correct meaning.

Jacob did not make a vow to tithe on his income. Again, wordtalk is making assumptions.

There is no example of tithing on income anywhere in the Bible.

Joagbaje:



anointing oil was never Recomended by Jesus for the church,  neither did he use it. So why should we embrace it. The oil used by Jews was medicinal. The spiritual anointing oil was for putting men into office .

every one of our members are potential ministers. So whats good for the bishop is good for them too.

I didn't select tithes . I'm taking a stand on the word. Tithing is an everlasting ordinance. Offering is everlasting ordinance . They go together . You can say you don't believe in tithing but you give God offering . It is hypocrisy because they are based on same spiritual principle.

I like how you claim your position is based on the word but another person's is based on hypocrisy. And you expect me to adopt the same approach, otherwise I've joined a bandwagon you don't like?

There is nothing wrong in your offering an explanation for the perceived inconsistencies. But one is free to disagree with you, without being your enemy, if your explanation does not seem satisfactory. For instance, Jesus may not have recommended the anointing oil for the church, but neither did he recommend tithing for the church. So, you're still in the same knot of stating a principle (what Jesus recommended or not) but selectively applying it.

Sure, everybody in your church is a minister but Paul was careful to recommend against multiple wives to office holders. Again, you start with a position you cannot sustain. When somebody says that every christian is a man of God, you quote Paul's words to Timothy that he was referring to office holders. At that point, you don't think that every member of your church is a minister and therefore a Man of God.

You see, it's such inconsistencies that make it difficult for me to back you sometimes. It'll be a waste of my mental abilities not to question such glaring contradictions. It may be that at the end of the day I'm wrong, but I need to know why. Not just because some baba said so. To borrow your phrase the other time, that would be slavery mentality on my part.

wordtalk:

Please sir, I'm not one of those to argue long and hard on exactitudes, because it is obvious that a closer look at the sources dealing on tithes do not make that kind of fastidious assertion. You will observe that even among anti-tithing theologians, the tithes they argue varying between 1% to 10% to 23.3% to even 40% - and they all calling that "tithe".

Besides that, the source from the Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago (several volumes) shows an approximation rather than exactitudes. A few example:

- the palace has taken eight garments as your tithe (on 85 garments)

- eleven garments as tithe (on 112 garments)

- four minas of silver, the tithe of [the gods] Bel, Nabu, and Nergal (no mention of 40 here)

Would you say that 8 is exactly 10% of 85? Would you also argue that 11 is exactly 10% of 112? This is why I don't argue legalistically - and if the person I'm discussing with can't see the simple issue of approximates, then tough luck.

I think I did not make myself clear enough. I'm not focused on percentages the way you are. Setting aside money is what people do with their offerings. I doubt that anybody giving an offering thinks he's setting aside a percentage. But tithers know they're doing that. That's the big difference.

nlMediator:

Hasty generalizations and conclusions? Inaccurate? Where is the conclusion or generalization? I said that IF such a preacher exists, I'll like to read from him. How's that a conclusion? A conclusion would be saying there's no such preacher. But I was very careful not to say that, since I do not know.

I'm not going to argue your conclusions here and there about your previous statement; but to make such remarks and then argue that my discussion was out of context is simply erratic an inaccurate. I based my response on your statement that "Not one of them I know or have heard makes any exceptions" - but is that anybody's fault if you don't know even ONE in Nigeria on the things you have read in my discussions? You may not know any - that doesn't make someone else's discussions to be out of context.

On the site being used by non-Nigerians, of course that is common knowledge. It does not change the fact that a lot of the discussion is coming from a Nigerian Christian context. You need not use a 'belief' somewhere to explain a different belief in Nigeria that goes by the same name.

Excuse me, but that is just simply shallow. If you read another Bible different from the one every Christian reads and uses, I would see sense in your arguments; other than that, I find your remarks really funny.

Regarding your claim that evangelical leaders overwhelmingly tithe, you cannot get away from the conclusion by saying that you have other sources, unless those sources have data showing that. I'd like to see such.

Please visit the article - there are links that will take you to the NAE surveys, as well as the bodies involved in the survey.

Wordtalk seems to think that tithe means 10%.  It doesn't.  It means tenth.  In other words, as you count the items, every tenth one is the tithe.  If there are eleven, the tenth one is the tithe.  That is not an approximation.  It is the tithe.

nlMediator:

I think I did not make myself clear enough. I'm not focused on percentages the way you are. Setting aside money is what people do with their offerings. I doubt that anybody giving an offering thinks he's setting aside a percentage. But tithers know they're doing that. That's the big difference.

It seems you like to read what you want to read into people's posts - but hey, it's a free world.

garyarnold:

Wordtalk seems to think that tithe means 10%. It doesn't. It means tenth. In other words, as you count the items, every tenth one is the tithe. If there are eleven, the tenth one is the tithe. That is not an approximation. It is the tithe.

So, in your thinking Abraham would have been sitting down to count the items, every tenth one the tithe? I'm not that rigid in thinking - and no, that is not what the Bible said in Abraham's tithes to Melchizedek. I have used both TENTH and 10% in talking about TITHES - and nobody has complained. The funny thing about your comments is to look for every dot to pick upon and end up saying absolutely nothing!

nlMediator:

I like how you claim your position is based on the word but another person's is based on hypocrisy. And you expect me to adopt the same approach, otherwise I've joined a bandwagon you don't like?

I'm not against anybody judging my post by the word. I welcome it whole heartedly. But when christian posts enters mockery and some get insultive . It's no longer in the spirit of the bible.

but neither did he recommend tithing for the church. So, you're still in the same knot of stating a principle (what Jesus recommended or not) but selectively applying it.

Jesus  didn't need to teach tithing because it was never an issue for debate. It was on for thousands of years. Jesus endorsed tithing in matt. He also taught on rendering what is to God to God. So tithes and offerings were no issues.

Sure, everybody in your church is a minister but Paul was careful to recommend against multiple wives to office holders. Again, you start with a position you cannot sustain. When somebody says that every christian is a man of God, you quote Paul's words to Timothy that he was referring to office holders. At that point, you don't think that every member of your church is a minister and therefore a Man of God.

There different offices in Gods kindgdom. Some are called by God some are  appointed by men and others came in through a desire to serve. Timothy certainly didn't recieve a call like paul. Paul made a minister out of him. If polygamy will be a hindrance to the future ministry of a potential minister being a criterial for disqualification why should one adopt it.

You see, it's such inconsistencies that make it difficult for me to back you sometimes.

You don't need to back me. Stand for truth. but make sure it is truth. Besides if you had asked for clarification, what you term incosistent may not really be.

It'll be a waste of my mental abilities not to question such glaring contradictions.

I welcome contributive criticism. It is mockery ,abuses and unchristian attitude I condemn.

garyarnold:

I thought that wordtalk had taken a class in accounting, but now he uses an example of income that is not correct.

I would like to see how that has happened.

The farmers had income when they sold or barter exchanged the crops. They did not tithe on that income. They tithed on the assets.

Please show me ONE verse in your own KJV Bible that uses the word "ASSET". Just one verse will do. Meanwhile, you don't seem to be able to think carefully on what TEBUAH is in Biblical usage, do you? Do you care to know? If you did, you would not be trying to advertize your accounting trade again and blaiming me for your loss.

Wordtalk hasn't yet learned how to pick out the correct definition of a word. Many words have many meanings. You must pick out the correct meaning.

Gary Arnold, this is not about me or anyone else. If you have something worth saying, please say on and stop complaining whle taking up precious space with noise. Please.

Jacob did not make a vow to tithe on his income. Again, wordtalk is making assumptions.

What did Jacob make a vow on - ASSET, yes? Please show me ONE VERSE in your KJV that uses the word ASSET.

There is no example of tithing on income anywhere in the Bible.

What is the meaning of the Hebrew word "tebuah"? Just sitting behind a PC and denying everything where you cannot provide an alternative answer is a lazy way of arguing.

wordtalk:

I'm not going to argue your conclusions here and there about your previous statement; but to make such remarks and then argue that my discussion was out of context is simply erratic an inaccurate. I based my response on your statement that "Not one of them I know or have heard makes any exceptions" - but is that anybody's fault if you don't know even ONE in Nigeria on the things you have read in my discussions? You may not know any - that doesn't make someone else's discussions to be out of context.

Excuse me, but that is just simply shallow. If you read another Bible different from the one every Christian reads and uses, I would see sense in your arguments; other than that, I find your remarks really funny.

Please visit the article - there are links that will take you to the NAE surveys, as well as the bodies involved in the survey.

You're really struggling to make a non-point. "Not one of them" is a generalization. "Not one of them I know of" is not. I'm speaking from personal experience and there's absolutely nothing generalizing about that. Words are there for a purpose. You can't pick some portions of my statement and leave the part that immediately qualifies it and nullifies your argument.

I quoted something from the NAE's president that you referred to that has an approach to tithing that's different from the one I know from this site (apart from you) and Nigerian preachers. Why can't somebody contradict the point? Telling me that it's my fault that I don't know people that hold such views is unhelpful. How else would I know other than by seeking such information from anywhere I can find it, including a widely-read forum like this?

Finally, it's not about reading another Bible. Words can be used in different ways and contexts. I'm sure you're familiar with the Alice in Wonderland example. Somebody can refer to 5% of income as tithe and another person believes that 10% of income is the tithe. That they're both using the same word does not mean they're saying the same thing. Nor has that anything to do with versions of the Bible.

Wordtalk criticizes John MacArthur for saying the Biblical tithe was a tax because the Bible doesn't call it a tax.

Wordtalk has criticized me for saying the Biblical tithe was "like" a tax because the Bible doesn't call it a tax.

Then Wordtalk says there are examples in the Bible of tithing on income, yet the Bible doesn't use the word income.

Talk about being inconsistent!

Edited for spelling:

nlMediator:

You're really struggling to make a non-point. "Not one of them" is a generalization. "Not one of them I know of" is not. I'm speaking from personal experience and there's absolutely nothing generalizing about that. Words are there for a purpose. You can't pick some portions of my statement and leave the part that immediately qualifies it and nullifies your argument.

And what point have you actually made? You seem to be at a huge loss on your own struggles, you know. You don't know about something - that doesn't make someone else's discussions to be out of context. Is the whole point yet lost on you? If you are expressing surprise, that would be something else - but to draw your hasy conclusions to say my discussions are out of context just doesn't help your further arguments.

I quoted something from the NAE's president that you referred to that has an approach to tithing that's different from the one I know from this site (apart from you) and Nigerian preachers. Why can't somebody contradict the point?

I am not against anybody contraditing any point - if done with good reasons. What you have done is try to contradict whatever point you wanted to without showing a case for your reasoned contradictions.

Telling me that it's my fault that I don't know people that hold such views is unhelpful.

- Just as telling me my discussions are out of context doesn't help either.

How else would I know other than by seeking such information from anywhere I can find it, including a widely-read forum like this?

How do you seek for information in the way you have already concluded that my discussions are out of context? I find that a very hilariously exhilarating manner of seeking information!

Finally, it's not about reading another Bible. Words can be used in different ways and contexts. I'm sure you're familiar with the Alice in Wonderland example. Somebody can refer to 5% of income as tithe and another person believes that 10% of income is the tithe. That they're both using the same word does not mean they're saying the same thing. Nor has that anything to do with versions of the Bible.

Touche.

Joagbaje:

I'm not against anybody judging my post by the word. I welcome it whole heatedly. But when christian posts enters mockery and some get insultive . Ute no longer in the spirit of the bible.

Jesus  didn't need to teach tithing because it was never an issue for debate. It was on for thousands of years. Jesus endorsed tithing in matt. He also taught on rendering what is to God to God. So tithes and offerings were no issues.

There different offices in Gods kindgdom. Some are called by God some are  appointed by men and others came in through a desire to serve. Timothy certainly didn't recieve a call like paul. Paul made a minister out of him. If polygamy will be a hindrance to the future ministry of a potential minister being a criterial for disqualification why should one adopt it.

You don't need to back me. Stand for truth. but make sure it is truth. Besides if you had asked for clarification, what you term incosistent may not really be.

I welcome contributive criticism. It is mockery ,abuses and unchristian attitude I condemn.

We can certainly agree that sometimes people use the wrong words or adopt the wrong attitude. While it's no less sinful, I attribute it mainly to passion. Being passionate about things is a good thing. We need to make greater effort to avoid insults, hurtful words. I know I've not always lived up to that standard, contrary to my intention before I registered. But it makes me know I have a lot of room for improvement.

Your explanations on anoiting oil, ministers, polygamy are sensible. But not satisfactory. That's what discussions are about. We can always disagree. Problem is that just as you disagree on anointing oil, etc., those that disagree on mandatory tithing are called names and their motives questioned at every turn. That, to me, is not right.

garyarnold:

Wordtalk criticizes John MacArthur for saying the Biblical tithe was a tax because the Bible doesn't call it a tax.

And your point is . . .?

Wordtalk has criticized me for saying the Biblical tithe was "like" a tax because the Bible doesn't call it a tax.

. . . and yet, your point is??

Then Wordtalk says there are examples in the Bible of tithing on income, yet the Bible doesn't use the word income.

Phew! I feel very sory for you, mr. gary arnold - believe me, I do. I have asked you to please tell me two things:

-  where in the Bible (your own favourite KJV) have you read of the word "ASSET"?

-  What does the Hebrew word 'TEBUAH' mean to you?

By extension, what word do you know in the Bible that is used for INCOME and REVENUE - and is it WRONG to have said that 'tebuah' also includes the meaning of INCOME and REVENUE? The important thing here for serious thinking heads is to discuss issues rather than complain here and there as you're doing.

Talk about being inconsistent!

Oh please! It is obvious you're just yapping in your corner all by yourself if you can't intelligently discuss - don't make 'wordtalk' your headache.

wordtalk:

And what point have you actually made? You seem to be at a huge loss on your own struggles, you know. You don't know about something - that doesn't make someone else's discussions to be out of context. Is the whole point yet lost on you? If you are expressing surprise, that would be something else - but to draw your hasy conclusions to say my discussions are out of context just doesn't help your further arguments.

I am not against anybody contraditing any point - if done with good reasons. What you have done is try to contradict whatever point you wanted to without showing a case for your reasoned contradictions.

- Just as telling me my discussions are out of context doesn't help either.

How do you seek for information in the way you have already concluded that my discussions are out of context? I find that a very hilariously exilating manner of seeking information!

Touche.

I was not necessarily seeking the information from you - I already know your position. Glad to see you've abandoned your position that I was concluding and generalizing about what people teach, when in reality I was limiting it to my personal experience. What is left now is that I concluded that your discussion is outside the context. Again, that conclusion is only in the sense of what I know about tithe preaching. That knowledge is sufficient basis to assert that what you're saying is different from what those people I've read on this site and elsewhere from Nigeria are saying. I don't see what's harmful in that.

nlMediator:

I was not necessarily seeking the information from you - I already know your position. Glad to see you've abandoned your position that I was concluding and generalizing about what people teach, when in reality I was limiting it to my personal experience.

Huh? That's news to me! Where have I abandoned my position? Are you trying to make it sound like that for your own consumption. . . or? No sir, I have not abandoned my position. Just say you were uninformed hitherto.

What is left now is that I concluded that your discussion is outside the context. Again, that conclusion is only in the sense of what I know about tithe preaching. That knowledge is sufficient basis to assert that what you're saying is different from what those people I've read on this site and elsewhere from Nigeria are saying. I don't see what's harmful in that.

Dude, I'm not holding you at gunpoint. I just don't see how you could conclude what you did when in very fact the discussions on tithes on this forum are broader than what you're tending to narrow it to.

^

Sorry, you're one of a handful of people here trying to broaden it. The discussion is substantially about the narrow point I raised. If you have any contradictory information from this site, I'll like to see it.

TEBUAH - can mean several things including produce, increase, and income.

HOWEVER, when the KJV was translated, they chose INCREASE, not income.  Although all income can be classified as increase, not all increase is income.  Had the KJV used the word "income" instead of increase, I would have no argument.

nlMediator:

Sorry, you're one of a handful of people here trying to broaden it. The discussion is substantially about the narrow point I raised. If you have any contradictory information from this site, I'll like to see it.

^^ I'm tempted to show you a handful of such, but we should leave it there - there's no need arguing such irrelavance (my POV), unless you just wanted to see the fact for yourself.

garyarnold:

TEBUAH - can mean several things including produce, increase, and income.

Did I assert any differently? Did you read what I said earlier, that: "The word translated as "increase" is TEBUAH - a common Hebrew word that could mean product, revenue, income, gain or yield. It pointed to the revenue procurred from man's labours or transactions"??

HOWEVER, when the KJV was translated, they chose INCREASE, not income.

They mean the same thing - neither the translators of the KJV or those of any other versions have argued that they could not mean the same thing.

Although all income can be classified as increase, not all increase is income.  Had the KJV used the word "income" instead of increase, I would have no argument.

The KJV is not the only English Bible available for English readers. Here is one other English version -

KJV Bible - Proverbs 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine INCREASE

God's Word (GW) version - Proverbs 3:9 Honor the LORD with your wealth and with the first and best part of all your INCOME



But then, I am still asking - 

-  where in the Bible (your own favourite KJV) have you read of the word "ASSET"?

-  What does the Hebrew word 'TEBUAH' mean to you?

By extension, what word do you know in the Bible that is used for INCOME and REVENUE - and is it WRONG to have said that 'tebuah' also includes the meaning of INCOME and REVENUE?

Joagbaje:

Ask God  ask him also why do we need water baptism.

You should also ask yourself why God would want 10% not 20 not 30. For thousands of years this has been on . There has never been any place in the bible where God gave contrary instruction against iT. As he did to other things.

Tithes and offering remains As vital part our worship of God.

I should ask God?

I  have asked him, and he directed me to Deut 14 22-29. But alas, it's not practised the way he instructed in most churches. Tithes and offerings is not a vital part of worship to God because he does not need materials things. It is humans who needs these things and manipulate the word of God to get them.

The day God needs Material things then is the day he becomes human to me.  It is people like you and I that needs tithes and material things. So, stop mentioning God and Tithes.  There are people in life that live a happy life without paying tithes,( People you are not holier than, and people that are not holier than you) so what is the point? (If not to serve for some Greedy people's stomach)

No offence, but you are in no position to ask me to ask God anything. Nothing about you portrays the edge or advantage to be in that position.

If you want to use a version of the Bible for children, you will find the word income.

Income and increase do NOT mean the same thing.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV)  Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (RSV)  You shall tithe all the yield of your seed, which comes forth from the field year by year.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (NASB)  You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year.

Proverbs 3:9 (KJV)  Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

Proverbs 3:9 (RSV)  Honor the LORD with your substance and with the first fruits of all your produce;

Proverbs 3:9 (NASB)  Honor the LORD from your wealth And from the first of all your produce;

And if you take the time to read Proverbs 3:10, you will plainly see it is talking about FOOD, not someone's income or money.

@wordtalk

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. . . However, the Biblical tithes (Abraham, Jacob and the Levitical system) assume a different character and were connected with priesthood and worship, rather than with political kingship.
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When God instituted the tithes into the Levitical system, it was based on the same principle of priesthood and worship. Even though they were received by the priests, Israel’s tithes were given to God Himself (Num. 18:24, KJV – “the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD“). It was God’s sovereignty that underscored Israel’s worship in the tithes.
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Our giving in worship is quite a different thing from the idea of a tax system or obligation under a custom. The essential principles of worship and priesthood rise above any other consideration for those who walk in faith – and to miss these is to miss everything else.

http://givingtithes.com/abrahams-tithes-arab-tax/"


What exactly are people missing from paying tithes and who judges and decides what they miss?

Does Tithing draw you closer to God and makes you achieve the ultimate goal- Heaven-  ?

Who decides  the relevance of this activity?