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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / What Is The Point Of Free Will? (3398 Views)
Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? / God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. / Free Will Is An Illusion (2) (3) (4)
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Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:06am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Aemmyjah: Wrong! Every creation is a robot or toy to its Creator exactly as your mannequins, cars, phones, mascots etc. All creations are toys and robots. Man is just robot who has been made to exercise the many powers he has been given on his own calculated choosing even up to the option of choosing what pleases him. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:21am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Aemmyjah: Mine is not! As God warned Peter "how can you call what He (God) had Said is clean, unclean?" (Which is exactly what the makers of the 1979 Rolls Royce will tell you) Same warning in Isaiah 45:9 So, also can no man lay down perfect on a thing they did not create. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 5:24am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: And here we go Go and check the dictionary meaning of robots You did not read what I wrote well Do you want to compare man to robots? Robots have no choice of their own as they must keep doing whatever they're programmed to do. That of man, even perfect man and angels demonstrate obedience out of love , respect, loyalty, submission and not automatic Besides, you can compare human inventions to living creatures like you and me I agree with your last words but I don't accept that man is a robot. Man is a moral BEING or creature. He is not 'just robot' |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:34am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Aemmyjah: The bold, is man not programmed? Is he not programmed to choose? Is he not doing according to his programming? Can he do beyond his programming eg fly with his natural body like a bird or stay under the sea with his natural body like a fish? Exactly like a robot, he is bound by his programme. Programme means Law! And therefore like the robot he is only doing what He has been Law'd to do and like the robot, he can not go beyond it |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Anormalguy(m): 5:38am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: Yes. My mistake, I made a typographical error but I have corrected it, so it may be clear enough for you to read now. Incase it still is not clear enough, let me rephrase below. Dtruthspeaker: Agreed. Dtruthspeaker: Agreed but my question is why did God make us with the potential to harm and do evil which is integral in free will? |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 5:40am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: Sorry, I can't read Isaiah 45:9 and comment on it as sleep de my eyes. Been doing research on soul and spirit cos I was invited to explain the Bible meaning to one guy As for the unclean, note that it was God himself that told his people what was clean and unclean FOR THEM and not in His (God) eyes. He first told Noah to bring the clean animals by sevens and the unclean animals by twos, male and female into the ark. Later, Jehovah, through Moses gave the nation of Israel the criteria of knowing which animal is clean and unclean for them and they were not to eat them. Peter grew up as a Jew and he knew such animals. He must have seen that and when he was commanded to eat it, he objected cos they were unclean. Everything was actually a vision na and kind of a 'prophetic lesson' that helped Simon Peter to realize that those that the Jews used to see as unclean which are the Gentiles have now been sanctified by their faith in the ransom of Jesus Christ and can become heirs of the kingdom and serve Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ and the first were Cornelius and his household. Peter himself acknowledge it when he said that he 'NOW know God is not partial but everyman in every nation who fears God and does what is right is acceptable or pleasing to Him' - Acts 10:31 Later, ask he spoke, they received the holy spirit and got baptized. Naturally, Peter in his Jewish mind will not even knock on the home of a Gentile let alone enter their home and spend 'some days' with them. The vision he received was timely and that shows the wisdom of Jehovah God. There's a part in the Gospel writings that said that Jesus Christ declared ALL foods clean. Initially, there were some foods that were unclean to them I really admire you bro for many things, your zeal and your conviction in the existence of the Creator and how you prove it to these Atheists. You're not just a premium churchgoer. After you, there's no one else I've seen that's not a Witness that shows same spirit but when it comes to WHAT THE BIBLE REALLY TEACHES, I don't want to be egoistic and I don't mean to insult you but you should give us that respect |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 5:45am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: See where you're contradicting yourself I've caught you and it's bad I can't highlight your error Unlike humans, robots are NOT programmed to CHOOSE (or make choices) You've jumped from perfection and sin and freewill to make moral choices into another thing entirely - environment. Man can't fly naturally like birds but they can still fly by planes or skydiving and that is not bad in God's eyes. We can't swim like fishes but we can travel far on or under water with the use of boats or submarine. It is because we're made in God's image. That means we can reflect God's personality and one of his attributes is Wisdom Good morning |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:49am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Anormalguy: This is still the same question you said so I take it, this is Truly the question you intended asking. First your question is not in tandem with the Truth for you impute what is not there. God did not create us to do evil behold, He even kept evil trapped in a fruit. Therefore, we enjoyed the advantage of being good and exercising the freewill of doing all good. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:52am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Aemmyjah: As you have programmed them to not choose. If you wanted your robot to choose, you would programme them to choose. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 6:14am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Aemmyjah: Truth is I respect people who give respect And truth is, you have been very decent and respectful even we do not agree. I love and respect that. I humbly do not like your group because of the choice of Life and Death Choice and I choose Life and run away from death, and I humbly think that some of your thinkings and practices and teachings are inclined towards death most especially when I can reasonably see that it is also fuelled by our natural wishes and desires rather than Truth. Even if I would not like the Truth, I choose that I should be given the Truth. The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. James A. Garfield Inspite of this, I'll stick take The Truth. Half Truth is a Lie and all Lies kill, whereas Truth gives Life. And as I said, I choose Life! Hence I am anti-Lie and and anti-death which is why I attack all Lies and death, hence my attack on your group when the occasion rises. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Anormalguy(m): 6:20am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: No, I did not ask my question with malice and it is my true question. I first modified the original question to fix the error then went to type another post to rephrase my original post. In addition, I was doing some things on the side. My intention is to come to an understanding of the perfection of freewill because I believe everything God creates must be perfect in it's own way but with freewill, I cannot wrap my head around it being perfect since it constitutes the potential for evil. You have to be patient with me as I am still getting used to writing posts on nairaland. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 6:27am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Anormalguy: Alright! I answered it up |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by TenQ: 6:41am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker:Where did you get that? With freewill you can choose either to be dependent or reliant on God or to be totally independent of Him. Dtruthspeaker:You got a computer for a young boy, installed all the softwares he needed on it with a simple instructini. "Under no circumstance should you accept ANY softwares from anyone to avoid risk of infection." Someone told the boy, you have only the latest Nintendo softwares, the old ancient versions of Nintendo is much more interesting. The person who gave you the computer doesn't want you to enjoy your computer that is why he locked up all the old beautiful interesting gaming softwares! So, you boy got this new software installed on his machine. Now, he got a new set of softwares BUT his system is now infected with Trojans, Viruses and Worms! Now the whole computer is misbehaving because of the virus. Your question was, how did this EVIL virus get inside the boys computer? How does a virus get into a computer? |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Anormalguy(m): 7:15am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: I don’t understand this part. Perhaps you are referring to something related to the Adam & Eve story. Please clarify. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Jokerman(m): 7:20am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Freewill is an illusion. No freewill, you'd either end in the lake of fire, or be with Jesus at the new earth and heaven, after this life choices. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Kobojunkie: 7:35am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Jokerman:That one na the lie wey your pastors and mogs, men who know absolutely nothing about God, dey feed una. ![]() |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by orisa37: 7:49am On Dec 18, 2022 |
DON'T FOLLOW FOLLOW. DON'T BE IDOLATROUS. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 7:52am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: Da! Try and read all I wrote in that comments again Man is a moral or freewill agent. Robot are not. Do not try to mix both together. That is why man can obey based on LOVE, loyalty, they can choose from right and wrong, obedience or disobedience. You're the one mixing things up |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 7:52am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Anormalguy: My comments answered your question |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 7:55am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: Show us where the Bible said God kept evil in a fruit If so, where does the wrong desire come in? Satan did not eat fruit but he was already evil Besides,what's your ground for Truth cos we're discussing something that has to do with God himself |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 8:04am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: Lol John 17:17 God's word is truth Truth is a life and death thing so you can't tell me I chose the death choice Like you said, there was choice and there are basis to choices especially as to regards to religion if there is only one true religion in God's eyes. The road is narrow and cramped and FEW are on it. Jesus christ himself gave prophecies about his followers in the last days that they will be busy preaching the good news of the kingdom until the end comes Like Jesus Christ, we honor the father and 'make known his name to all men'. That's why we restored the Divine name to his only book and adopted his name to become his Witnesses Jesus christ said his disciples will be hated and persecuted by all nations but they will be identified for the self-sacrificing love they have among themselves. You can tell us such group here. Love is based on action. Every religion preaches love but in the face of conflict,they kill one another in the spirit of nationalism and ethnicity. Love among God's people goes beyond that, they are not learning war anymore and those among God's people are turning their swords into plowshares and helping others become friends of the true God. Trinity is not biblical; hellfire and purgatory is not biblical; immortality of the soul is not biblical; all souls goes to heaven is not biblical. We based all our beliefs and teaching on the truth of God's word and allow it to refine us |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 8:08am On Dec 18, 2022 |
TenQ: Pls accept my commendation as your illustration was really Epic. My eyes nearing stood up in ovation as I read them |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 8:10am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: I just read Isaiah How does this scripture fit in |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Aemmyjah(m): 8:19am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: When the Bible says Adam was perfect, it meant that he lived up to his standards in creation. For example, in a class, you may mark someone work as good, bad, poor, excellent or perfect. Still God gave him freewill to do what he pleases. That freewill was not to be automatic but his choices should come from his heart. He may choose to obey his Creator or not, do what is bad or not if he wishes. Satan himself was perfect but he misused his freewill too. Joshua even urged his people to use their freewill to serve God when he said that if it seem good to them, they could choose to serve God or not. Adam could eat whatever he likes, drink and breathe. That does not mean that because he is perfect, he can stay without air or just eat any kind of food or climb a cliff to land headfirst. His freewill will help him and us as well to decide what we WANT to do regarding moral laws. Accept them or reject them. God is love and he expects his intelligent creatures to show that same attitude of love towards him. If won't make sense if they were like robots. Jesus christ too was tempted and we all know of his temptation yet he CHOSE to want to obey God. Something Adam and Eve foolishly failed to do |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by hayoholla(m): 9:34am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: This goodness certification is a quality of the work done by the creator, and not a characteristic of the man himself. 1. You're stretching this further and further. How did man got these characteristic if not from God's likeness. Its like making a robot and you'd expect it to just perform the task you built it for, without the necessary programmes and instructions it need to be fed with, to execute it. ![]() If you would stick to what is written rather than these numerous attempts to redefine/redraw that which is written, you will find that it ain't as complicated as you think it is. God created all creatures, He breathed life —the breath of Life which is spirit and belongs to God — into every one of the living creatures that He created. There are no ambiguities in any of what is written as is written. 2. Since God breathed life into every living creatures. I am sure the the carnivorous animal we have today, initially started out vegans ![]() There you go insisting that it should all have been according to how you supposed. Adam was given a choice and made to know the consequence of disobeying said choice. 3. Maybe your error is you believing that I had wanted a perfect world, where everything would have worked out as plan. As if eating the supposed apple wasn't even part of the plan! ![]() In your confusion, you keep forgetting that evil was created by God Himself. You know what, You need to make up your mind whether you want to argue the delusions and musings of you or need to focus instead on seeing what is written as it is written 4. If evil was created by God, what was the intention of him creating it, if he created a perfect world? Are you telling me the all knowing God do not know the probabilities of the outcomes of his own action!!!!! Tell me please. Make me understand. Even of he wanted to test Adam with the tree of good and evil, then he should still know what the outcome will be on both sides, which means God's creation was good in "making" but not entirely good in characteristics. And if this is still the case, God who created evil himself is capable of evil, because he can comprehend what evil is, even if he's not inclined to do so. It's like two side of a coin. Both are inseparable!!!!! So in essence God's creation can only be assumed to be good in aesthetics, and not in their characteristic; of each of his creation. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by hayoholla(m): 9:49am On Dec 18, 2022 |
No matter how y'all spin it. Imperfection has always and will always be part of creation. We only want to turn a blind eye to it ![]() |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by TenQ: 10:56am On Dec 18, 2022 |
Aemmyjah:Thank your sir! |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by TenQ: 10:59am On Dec 18, 2022 |
hayoholla:When the manufacturer creates the laptop computer, does he load it with virus? OR Virus get into the computer because the USER connected an unverified software source accessing the computer? |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by hayoholla(m): 11:26am On Dec 18, 2022 |
TenQ: ![]() ![]() |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 1:08pm On Dec 18, 2022 |
Aemmyjah: I know. That means he was perfect according to the assessment of his Creator, like the Rolls Royce, iPhone, mannequin etc. Aemmyjah: You have said the words of programming which is "God gave him" which means God set him, the same way iPhone and other toys are set in their own way. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by TenQ: 1:09pm On Dec 18, 2022 |
hayoholla:SMH! 1. I didn't speak of ANY computer system 2. Except your solution is that : To ELIMINATE computer VIRUSES, it is sufficient to eliminate all COMPUTERS. A Computer VIRUS is a kind of low level computer program made by a malicious software programmer. In this case, the computer is good UNTIL the user introduces a FOREIGN Trojan gift into it. |
Re: What Is The Point Of Free Will? by hayoholla(m): 1:29pm On Dec 18, 2022 |
TenQ: This is what you said down here� When the manufacturer creates the laptop computer, does he load it with virus? OR Virus get into the computer because the USER connected an unverified software source accessing the computer? And I replied you. I asked if there's no computer system, how will computer virus exist. So Where's the confusion in my reply. You even replied again with this� You even replied that Except your solution is that : To ELIMINATE computer VIRUSES, it is sufficient to eliminate all COMPUTERS So obviously you understood my reply. And also you said, I didn't speak of ANY computer system When you initially started with this� When the manufacturer creates the laptop computer, does he load it with virus? OR Virus get into the computer because the USER connected an unverified software source accessing the computer? Or is it my use of "computer sytem" that's confusing you? |
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