chieveboy:


On not being a celebrity, perhaps you will understand more about metaphors later.

Besides, what stops you from meeting him? I told you he is very much around. This way, you won't need any artist impressions or a nairaland post that is likely fake or fabricated

And why the obfuscation if the person you're talking about is real?

A metaphor is a direct comparison that shouldn't be too obscure for people to understand easily.

You're probably speaking in parables here but I don't see the point in the context of the ongoing conversation.

As for meeting him, why do you want me to meet with a person that you have been unable to prove actually exist ?

How can people meet him if actually he is a real and not just a fictional character in your religious books

An accomplished author by the name Phil Morimitsu has a comprehensive account of his experience with the ECK masters.

The name of the book is " IN THE company Of Eck Masters"

https://amzn.to/40P7SYt

triplechoice:


And why the obfuscation if the person you're talking about is real?

A metaphor is a direct comparison that shouldn't be too obscure for people to understand easily.

You're probably speaking in parables here but I don't see the point in the context of the ongoing conversation.

As for meeting him, why do you want me to meet with a person that you have been unable to prove actually exist ?

How can people meet him if actually he is a real and not just a fictional character in your religious books

The problem is you didn't quite digest the gist, if you had, you will understand that these masters are not in the business of popularity contest or validation not to talk of posting their pictures to the world to say "see o, na me be dis".


Metaphor or drift which seems to still elude you is in the idea of an Eckmaster having an Instagram account. So as to post videos of his/her miracles for people to believe them.

Religious book kwa. Eckankar remains a science just as physics and mathematics. It exists whether an organization exist around the subject or not. This includes books.

People's awareness of them isn't even a concern, so long as this allows them do their job. Someone living in such remote location seeks validation to you?

triplechoice:




As for meeting him, why do you want me to meet with a person that you have been unable to prove actually exist ?

How can people meet him[b] if actually he is a real and not just a fictional character in your religious books[/b]

I think you answered your own question. In the bolded. "To find out" is your answer.

Are you scared of meeting a fictional person? Well they are very jovial and easy-going folks.

chieveboy:


I think you answered your own question. In the bolded. "To find out" is your answer.

Are you scared of meeting a fictional person? Well they are very jovial and easy-going folks.

You ignored ' in your religious books' in my reply

A fictional character is not 'there' and so where would the fear come from?

triplechoice:


You ignored ' in your religious books' in my reply

And I mentioned "In our religions books kwa", did you get that part?

A fictional character is not 'there' and so where would the fear come from?

I would excuse your perception of fiction.

This is because even ordinary quantum physics tells you, no such thing as "fiction".

Any wild fantasy and imagination you can muster is 'real'. All of it. You cannot imagine anything outside 'existence' or 'creation'.

This is another story for another time.

The ECK Masters are real. This is how simple the love of God is. They are here to help humanity.

Maynman:
Rebezar Tarzs, the 500 year old Tibetan Eck Master and “torchbearer” of the Eckankar religion, is a fictional character created by Eckankar’s founder Paul Twitchell.

Aside from the unlikelihood that anyone can live to be 500 years old, the evidence that Twitchell simply made up Rebezar Tarzs is quite strong. Hundreds of paragraphs attributed to Mr. Tarzs in The Far Country (an early Eckankar book that Twitchell claimed was “dictated” to him by Rebezar) were found to have been plagiarized from works by other authors. The main source of the Far Country’s content was actually the works of a Dr. Julian Johnson (1873–1939), an American Baptist minister who converted to the Sant Mat religion. Twitchell's The Far Country (1966) is almost entirely copied from Julian P. Johnson's two books With a Great Master in India (1933) and The Path of the Masters (1939).

Another Twitchell book purportedly based on the direct teachings of Rebezar Tarzs was Dialogues with the Master. Here the 500 year old Tibetan’s teachings seem to have a lot in common with the peculiar philosophy of Scientology’s L. Ron Hubbard, among other vogue occult writers of the 50s era.

Also, soon after starting Eckankar is 1965, we know that Twitchell redacted the names of actual gurus in his published writings with names of Rebezar Tarzs and other fictional characters of an Eck Master lineage. Swami Premananda of Washington DC was one such actual guru (Twitchell lived at his compound for 5 years during the 1950s, before being kicked out for bad behavior). In an effort to distance himself from his actual past, Twitchell replaced Premananda with the colorful fictional name Rebezar Tarzs.

chieveboy:




The problem is you didn't quite digest the gist, if you had, you will understand that these masters are not in the business of popularity contest or validation not to talk of posting their pictures to the world to say "see o, na me be dis".

You're the one , not me, who brought in celebrity an popularity talk and now using it to deflect instead of providing proof that a being who's over 500 years still exist somewhere in the Hindu Kush mountain.

Metaphor or drift which seems to still elude you is in the idea of an Eckmaster having an Instagram account. So as to post videos of his/her miracles for people to believe them.

I'm afraid you're reacting subjectively to my questions. Having an instagram account to post videos is not my idea, but yours because of what you imagine I might be thinking.

Religious book kwa. Eckankar remains a science just as physics and mathematics. It exists whether an organization exist around the subject or not. This includes books.

No. Eckankar is not science just like physics and mathematics. Eckankar is a religion founded by Paul Twitchell. That's what we know, and I don't think you can prove that the religion is the same like the natural sciences.

People awareness of them isn't even a concern so long as this allows them do their job. Someone living in such remote location seeks validation to you?

I'm not asking him to 'seek validation' to me. You're the one imagining that. Just prove that your claims about him are true. Unfortunately, you have not even tried to do so.

You can forget about if you can't. It's not a must .

triplechoice:



No. Eckankar is not science just like physics and mathematics. Eckankar is a religion founded by Paul Twitchell. That's what we know, and I don't think you can prove that the religion is the same like the natural sciences.


.

That's what we're saying...

For instance, we have a Paul Twitchell who is said to found the organization or religion in 1965 while the post is hinting at an existence long before with one said to be over 500yrs living in the Hindu Kush mountains.

Shamus for instance (the one with the hat) is a popular figure in Iran (Persia). Rumi one of his student is much more popular down to the west. Rumi is a follower of ECK.

Shamus was teacher of Rebazar Tarz who you singled out (if my memory served me right). Heck he even has a Wikipedia page. I suppose you would challenge wikipedia for his Instagram handle too for photographer image? He too is much around!


He taught Eckankar as an islamic sage. Again maybe you'll want to ask what then is this Eckankar? Because thousands of Muslims in Iran, Nigeria and many other countries study it too.

It was registered as a 'religion' for the books. In the USA it is either an NGO, or for profit. Paul's job was to reintroduce it to the world once again after the teachings going underground due to persecution.

Even without me saying, we're saying you're not connecting the dots.

Link to Rebazar's teacher Shams

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shams_Tabrizi

Talk is cheap, prove it.

BetterChurch:
The ECK Masters are real.

post=122361067:
Talk is cheap, prove it.

BetterChurch

Don't bother with this one. It's a troll.

chieveboy:


BetterChurch

Don't bother with this one. It's a troll.

Indoctrinated sheep, I’m still waiting for your “ambiguous evidence”.

Realize that as you give love to God, God’s love has already been given to you. Now all you need do is accept God’s love and return it to life.
For in returning it to life, to your fellow man and other creatures of God, you are returning it to God.

—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

So we will continue the thread by the grace of God after a brief break. Stay tuned and pick what resonates with you.

Love and love always!

My job is simply to make you aware that there is such a thing as the Light and Sound of God and then help you become aware of your own divinity.


—Harold Klemp
The Awakened Heart

Yaubl Sacabi (YEEOW-buhl sah-KAH-bee). The ECK Master among the Mycenaeans (invaders of Greece between 2000–1700 BC); he was the leading figure among the Greek mystery cults and is now the guardian of the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, the sacred book of ECK, in the spiritual city of Agam Des, the home of the Eshwar-Khanewale, the God-eaters.

He served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.

More about Yaubl Sacabi:
https://www.eckankar.org/explore/spiritual-teachers/

Towart Managi (TOH-wahrt mah-NAH-gee). The ECK Master in charge of the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad in the Temple of Golden Wisdom in the city of Mer Kailash on the Mental Plane; as guardian his title is the Koji Chanda.

He was the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master in Abyssinia, an ancient kingdom in what is now Ethiopia.

Encounter with ECK Masters
By Sri Harold Klemp


In the late 1960s a woman in Ohio was getting ready to make dinner for her family when she found she was out of bread. So she went down to the food store to buy some.

While she was there, she saw a book on a rack. It was The Tiger's Fang by Paul Twitchell. She bought it and the loaf of bread.

Cont'd.

When she got home, she began to read The Tiger's Fang. It's an account of a spiritual journey that Paul Twitchell took at one time. In the book he describes the different levels of heaven. Knowing about these levels is important because in the dream state people visit them.

St. Paul said that he knew a man who was caught up even unto the third heaven. Christianity speaks of heaven and earth as if there were only one heaven. Yet St. Paul was speaking of the third heaven, which at least suggests heavens one and two. That knowledge has been lost in Christianity; they have no idea what he was speaking of, at least from my past experience as a Lutheran.

Cont'd

As the woman read this book, she started having inner experiences in the dream state. At first she didn't connect them with Paul Twitchell at all.

In her dreams, she began to meet a holy man named Rebazar Tarzs. He was always dressed in a maroon robe. He would show her things that related to her daily life and things that helped her spiritually. Soon after, she found out about the Eckankar organization and that it was connected with Paul Twitchell.

So she thought, OK, I'll send for some information. But when she got it in the mail and looked at it, she said, "This is just another one of those organizations that's out to rip off people." She threw the brochures away.

Cont'd

Shazam X!Po (SHAA-zam KI-pow). The ECK Master among the Gobeps (founders of of the second cities between 22000–11700 BC); he was the leading figure among the Greater Mediterranean mystery cults and is now the editor of the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, the sacred book of ECK, in the spiritual city of Agam Des, the home of the Eshwar-Khanewale, the God-eaters.

chieveboy:


And I mentioned "In our religions books kwa", did you get that part?



I would excuse your perception of fiction.

This is because even ordinary quantum physics tells you, no such thing as "fiction".

Any wild fantasy and imagination you can muster is 'real'. All of it. You cannot imagine anything outside 'existence' or 'creation'.

This is another story for another time.

It seems you derive pleasure in putting the blame of what you don't understand very well on others. You don't really know what quantum physics says about 'fiction' ,and of course , I can see you placed it in quotes.

Instead of excusing my perception of fiction, you should make clear where you're coming from.

There's fiction, if not, we won't be able to differentiate between what is real and not real.

And, it's not even true or correct to say that 'any wild fantasy and imagination' one can muster is 'real' because it's impossible to imagine 'anything outside existence or creation.

An imagined image of a human being or anything in one's head is not the same as that of a being existing outside somewhere in material form. You don't seem to know this difference, and it may be the reason you believe those masters are real, without any outer confirmation they exist or have existed in the past materially.

One would need to confirm first that they exist in material form somewhere before one can take serious any vision of seeing them, if not one is misled.

According to you, your father saw a vision or dreamt of Harold klemp years back before he later got to know that he, Harold, actually exist in a material form in the US, and he's also the spiritual head of Eckankar.

For the Eck masters, apart from seeing them in a dream or vision, have you or anyone else met with them, (especially the over 500 year old Tarz ), physically to confirm they actually exist añd not just your mind playing tricks on you?

In other words have you been able to confirm if Rebazar Tarz actually exist in material form in Tibet or elsewhere he might currently be residing?


The human mind is capable of creating anything we strongly believe in and make us experience it as real. This is what I know and have confirmed for myself.

When she threw the Eckankar information away, she was actually throwing out Paul Twitchell too; she didn't want anything to do with any of it. But she had come to trust this holy man in her dreams, and shortly after that she had another dream with Rebazar Tarzs.

Rebazar Tarzs brought a friend along, and it happened to be Paul Twitchell.

"He's OK?" she asked Rebazar, pointing to Paul. Paul Twitchell and Rebazar Tarzs started laughing and laughing. They thought this was the most hilarious thing they'd ever heard.

Cont'd

Both of these ECK Masters are Vairagi Adepts, people whose only mission is to help others. The ECK Masters work not only on earth but in other worlds to help people find out about the Light and Sound of God. Their only mission, their only purpose, is to help people make their own way home to God.

So the two Masters had a good laugh. When the woman woke up, she said, "I'm going to get more information about Eckankar and Paul Twitchell." She did, and she found there was going to be a seminar in Cincinnati in September 1971.

Cont'd

triplechoice:


It seems you derive pleasure in putting the blame of what you don't understand very well on others. You don't really know what quantum physics says about 'fiction' ,and of course , I can see you placed it in quotes.

Instead of excusing my perception of fiction, you should make clear where you're coming from.

I very much understand what quantum physics says about this. Kindly confirm if you're from that background and let's have a technical discurse on that in another thread.

There's fiction, if not, we won't be able to differentiate between what is real and not real.

You're excused once again

And, it's not even true or correct to say that 'any wild fantasy and imagination' one can muster is 'real' because it's impossible to imagine 'anything outside existence or creation.

An imagined image of a human being or anything in one's head is not the same as that of a being existing outside somewhere in material form.[quote]

Same here

[quote] You don't seem to know this difference, and it may be the reason you believe those masters are real, without any outer confirmation they exist or have existed in the past materially.

The brief on Rebazar didn't say the Hindu kush mountains is a dream I am sure...

Again, a question of how you chose to perceive. With all this, what guarantees do we have if you meet someone who met him? What guarantees do we have should you too meet him?

One would need to confirm first that they exist in material form somewhere before one can take serious any vision of seeing them, if not one is misled.

Kindly refer to the answer above please.

According to you, your father saw a vision or dreamt of Harold klemp years back before he later got to know that he, Harold, actually exist in a material form in the US, and he's also the spiritual head of Eckankar.

Again, you understood what I wrote wrong. Read again. I stated he might have drawn Harold Klemp, only I knew who he drew after joining Eckankar. Till today, he might only be meeting "this white man" as he called it in his dreams. States in the line of "He won't touch Eckankar with a long stick".
Clearly you need to understand first...

For the Eck masters, apart from seeing them in a dream or vision, have you or anyone else met with them, (especially the over 500 year old Tarz ), physically to confirm they actually exist añd not just your mind playing tricks on you?

Yes. Millions infact. Muslims, Christians, Pagans l, animals etc have.

In other words have you been able to confirm if Rebazar Tarz actually exist in material form in Tibet or elsewhere he might currently be residing?

Again "What guarantees do we have..."

'The Tiger's Fang', 'In the Company of ECK Masters', 'Dialogues with the Master's are books of people's encounters with these guys.

The human mind is capable of creating anything we strongly believe in and make us experience it as real. This is what I know and have confirmed for myself.

I can see a classic example here. At least you're edging closer to understanding and redefining what "real" and reality is.

Wanting to Meet Paul Twitchell


The woman wanted to meet Paul Twitchell in person. So that weekend she and her husband and two children went to Cincinnati.

When they got to the hotel where the ECK seminar was to be, there was a sign that said Paul Twitchell would not be speaking at the seminar. She asked someone why not. They said, "Because he died."

Cont'd

The family was very upset when they heard that Paul Twitchell would not be there. They had waited all this time, and her children were in one of the first children's ECK classes in Ohio. They had all wanted to meet Paul Twitchell who was the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master at the time. The woman knew so little about ECK she didn't realize that there is always a Living ECK Master on earth.

So the family went back home. Some months later, she was beginning to get her life back together, beginning to get over this great loss of her spiritual teacher, when she had another experience

Cont'd

Gaze of the Master


One morning she went to a drugstore looking for an astringent called Sea Breeze. She went up to the counter and asked where it was, and the druggist told her to look back in the corner, under the sign Remedies.

So she walked over there in that area and started looking for this astringent. Try as she might, she couldn't find it on the shelves.

Suddenly she noticed an older, smallish man standing right in front of the sign Remedies. He just stood there and looked at the sign, then all of a sudden he turned and looked at her, intently looking her up and down. This is very odd, she thought. But the man kept doing it: looking at her then looking at the sign that said Remedies.

Cont'd

Suddenly he turned toward her, looked her full in the face, and said, "Hello there." And she said, "Hi," grinning from ear to ear as if she'd known this man from her childhood and for as long as she could remember.

She just stood there grinning, looking into his eyes, and this incredible wave of love came over her. She was filled with this stream of divine love, and it lifted her in such a happy way.

She was standing there, just soaking up all this love, when the druggist walked up. "You haven't found the Sea Breeze yet?" he said. And he started to lead her to another section of shelves, away from the old man.

Cont'd

When the woman turned around to look one more time at this old man who had this power of love in his eyes, he had disappeared. Where could he have gone? she wondered.

She and the druggist had taken just a couple of steps away from him. The long aisle led all the way to the other end of the drugstore. This man would have had to walk down it. But he wasn't there.


Cont'd

As she was looking for the man, the druggist was still looking for Sea Breeze. But he was looking where he had taken her, away from this sign. He said, "I put it here right on the shelf myself last night." When they couldn't find it, he came back to the section where this stranger had been standing, in front of the Remedies sign. "Oh, it's down here," the druggist said. "I wonder how it got here?"

It wasn't until the woman left the drugstore that she began to put it all together.

Cont'd