Kobojunkie:
Miracles are not exceptions to God's Law and Judgement. Rather, miracles are benefits included in the Law, and miracles do contradict God's own decree.

God's instituted His Law — unchanging— over a thousand years ago for us in Jesus Christ and this Law is everlasting meaning not a single Word of what has been declared will ever change. So, if you think your miracles today or whenever to mean God's Law has changed, you definitely are serving some unfaithful, untrustworthy being that is not the same God written of in Scripture. If He can shift the goalpost around every miracle or millennium, then He most does not fit the description that is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

It is appointed for man to die once.

God has the power to break this by resurecting the dead.

God even didn't allow most of these resurrected people in The Bible to become Dust!

Tell me, what happened to Elijah?
When did he become dust?

TenQ:
■ Lazarus was resurrected by Jesus. The little girl was resurected by Jesus
■ How many in a million deaths for any reason gets returned back?
■ Every Christian believe in miracles : a miracle is a temporary suspension of the natural laws

1. Jesus Christ said His followers have the power to raise those who are dead back to life. The same Jesus Christ also said to someone else, "Let the dead bury their dead."

2. Who cares? I just read of a woman who was declared dead but found alive many days afterward. What has that to do with anything?

3. Adherants to the religion of Christianity believe in miracles don't mean miracles only happen to them. Jesus Christ made clear that God pours out the very same favor/kindness/mercy/compassion on all living beings including the wicked and the ungrateful. Well, you may choose to relate miracles to natural laws but God's Law is not natural Law and His Law is unchanging — everlasting. If you don't know the difference between your "natural law" and God's Law, you have no business pretending to know God.

TenQ:
■ It is appointed for man to die once.
■ God has the power to break this by resurecting the dead.
■ God even didn't allow most of these resurrected people in The Bible to become Dust!
■ Tell me, what happened to Elijah? When did he become dust?

1. Really? Lazarus, the friend of Jesus Christ, likely died more than once. So, it is either you fail to grasp the message intended by the one you quote or you are accusing him or her of falsehood.

2. Rubbish! God does need to break anything. He is the one who instituted the judgment that is called Death in Genesis 3 vs 19 in response to Adam's transgression of His Law. God is also the one who instituted Death as a judgment against Sin in His order Law to the people of Israel in the land of Canaan - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. The same God is the one who instituted Eternal Damnation(complete with an afterlife) as judgment for those in His other law to the sinners of Israel - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. God has no need to break anything since it is all as described in His Law and Plan.

3. Huh?

4. Elijah was a man approved righteous by God in His Old Law at the time he was taken away, only to be reborn hundreds of years later as John the Baptist. For what reason would Elijah have had reason to be turned to dust?

Kobojunkie:
1. Jesus Christ said His followers have the power to raise those who are dead back to life. The same Jesus Christ also said to someone else, "Let the dead bury their dead."

2. Who cares? I just read of a woman who was declared dead but found alive many days afterward. What has that to do with anything?

3. Adherants to the religion of Christianity believe in miracles don't mean miracles only happen to them. Jesus Christ made clear that God pours out the very same favor/kindness/mercy/compassion on all living beings including the wicked and the ungrateful. Well, you may choose to relate miracles to natural laws but God's Law is not natural Law and His Law is unchanging — everlasting. If you don't know the difference between your "natural law" and God's Law, you have no business pretending to know God.

See how you are confusing yourself :
Only God has the right to allow a bend in the normal laws of nature AND He does that to whoever He wills Christian or no Christian!
The result of any such bend in the laws of nature is that praise and honour goes back to God.
Miracles happen sometimes because a Christian prays to God and many times, miracles are not even solicited But God through His mercies does it.

Tell me if a Boeing 747 crash and a person survives that it's not a miracle from God. Don't you realise that EVEYTHING we receive here on earth was GIVEN by God!?
1Cor 4:7:
"For who makes you to differ from another? and what have you that you did not receive? now if you did receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it?"

Kobojunkie:
1. Really? Lazarus, the friend of Jesus Christ, likely died more than once. So, it is either you fail to grasp the message intended by the one you quote or you are accusing him or her of falsehood.

2. Rubbish! God does need to break anything. He is the one who instituted the judgment that is called Death in Genesis 3 vs 19 in response to Adam's transgression of His Law. God is also the one who instituted Death as a judgment against Sin in His order Law to the people of Israel in the land of Canaan - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. The same God is the one who instituted Eternal Damnation(complete with an afterlife) as judgment for those in His other law to the sinners of Israel - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. God has no need to break anything since it is all as described in His Law and Plan.

3. Huh?

4. Elijah was a man approved righteous by God in His Old Law at the time he was taken away, only to be reborn hundreds of years later as John the Baptist. For what reason would Elijah have had reason to be turned to dust?

So there are exceptions to that you argue mindlessly about!?

The spirit of argument has possessed you!

TenQ:
■ So there are exceptions to that you argue mindlessly about!? The spirit of argument has possessed you!

1. Hell has nothing to do with natural Law but God's Law, and if you made that bit clear when you quoted from scripture in your attempts to provide backing for what happened to this atheist's story. So, please stop diving back and forth. Try to focus instead. There are no exceptions provided in God's Law as far as His declarations and judgments.

Kobojunkie:
1. Hell has nothing to do with natural Law but God's Law, and if you made that bit clear when you quoted from scripture in your attempts to provide backing for what happened to this atheist's story. So, please stop diving back and forth. Try to focus instead. There are no exceptions provided in God's Law as far as His declarations and judgments.

As long as even you can attest to the fact that God has power to make an exception out of anything, my case is made.

TenQ:
■ See how you are confusing yourself : Only God has the right to allow a bend in the normal laws of nature AND He does that to whoever He wills Christian or no Christian! The result of any such bend in the laws of nature is that praise and honour goes back to God.
■ Miracles happen sometimes because a Christian prays to God and many times, miracles are not even solicited But God through His mercies does it.
■ Tell me if a Boeing 747 crash and a person survives that it's not a miracle from God. Don't you realise that EVEYTHING we receive here on earth was GIVEN by God!?
■ 1Cor 4:7:
"For who makes you to differ from another? and what have you that you did not receive? now if you did receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it?"

1. Again, you mentioned Hell and Hell applies as far as God's Law, not your idea of natural law. God does not bend His Law, no matter who it is. He does not make exceptions as far as His Law is concerned.

2. God does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous; As He made clear, their prayers are an abomination to Him. So, no, miracles don't happen sometimes because you Christians pray. Rather, God pours out his mercy on all of mankind which is why even those who do not pray to Him experience the same kind of miracles and coincidences that those of the religion of Christianity also experience. Yes, you don't even have to pray to receive God's mercy, and you don't get it more because you wear the Christian badge around with you.

3. Again, God pours out His mercy on all mankind every single day. Even the rain which fails on all is God's mercy/favor on mankind. The sun rising and the setting is of the same. The Moon, the stars.... all God's mercy aka miracles if you want to go that far.

4. What in the world has Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 4 to do with this here conversation by the way?

1 You should think of us as servants of Christ, the ones God has trusted to do the work of making known his secret truths.
2 Those who are trusted with such an important work must show that they are worthy of that trust.
3 But I don’t consider your judgment on this point to be worth anything. Even an opinion from a court of law would mean nothing. I don’t even trust my own judgment.
4 I don’t know of any wrong I have done, but that does not make me right. The Lord is the one who must decide if I have done well or not.
5 So don’t judge anyone now. The time for judging will be when the Lord comes. He will shine light on everything that is now hidden in darkness. He will make known the secret purposes of our hearts. Then the praise each person should get will come from God.
6 Brothers and sisters, I have used Apollos and myself as examples for you. I did this so that you could learn from us the meaning of the words, “Follow what the Scriptures say.” Then you will not brag about one person and criticize another.
7 Who do you think you are? Everything you have was given to you. So, if everything you have was given to you, why do you act as if you got it all by your own power?
8 You think you have everything you need. You think you are rich. You think you have become kings without us. I wish you really were kings. Then we could rule together with you.
9 But it seems to me that God has given me and the other apostles the last place. We are like prisoners condemned to die, led in a parade for the whole world to see—not just people but angels too. - 1 Corinthians 4 vs 1 - 9

TenQ:
■As long as even you can attest to the fact that God has power to make an exception out of anything, my case is made.

That makes no sense. God has power to does not mean God m makes exceptions because God said
■ He does not change His mind — He does not make exceptions.
■ He is a faithful God meaning — He does not break the agreements/Covenants He has made with men
■ His Word is Everlasting — The contract/agreement/covenant He makes never changes and remains ironclad for eternity.

Stop trying so hard to make a liar of God for Pete's sake.

Kobojunkie:
That makes no sense. God has power to does not mean God m makes exceptions because God said
■ He does not change His mind — He does not make exceptions.
■ He is a faithful God meaning — He does not break the agreements/Covenants He has made with men
■ His Word is Everlasting — The contract/agreement/covenant He makes never changes and remains ironclad for eternity.

Stop trying so hard to make a liar of God for Pete's sake.

Tell me that Elijah wasn't an exception!?

Read to understand the Bible
Jeremiah 18, Exodus 32, 1 Samuel15, and Numbers 23

TenQ:
■ Tell me that Elijah wasn't an exception!?
■ Read to understand the Bible
Jeremiah 18, Exodus 32, 1 Samuel15, and Numbers 23

1. How was Elijah an exception? Exception to which of God's laws?

2. What exactly am I looking for as I read through those chapters?,

Kobojunkie:
1. How was Elijah an exception? Exception to which of God's laws?

2. What exactly am I looking for as I read through those chapters?,

When did Elijah die and become dust?

TenQ:
■ When did Elijah die and become dust?

You aren't paying attention at all, are you?

God's judgment in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24 was declared by God over those who reject Him beginning with Adam. Those who fail to obtain eternal life(and afterlife) are returned to dust from which they were made. Elijah was a righteous man of God so why would he have had need to share the same fate with the unrighteous?

Kobojunkie:
You aren't paying attention at all, are you?

God's judgment in Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24 was declared by God over those who reject Him beginning with Adam. Those who fail to obtain eternal life(and afterlife) are returned to dust from which they were made. Elijah was a righteous man of God so why would he have had need to share the same fate with the unrighteous?

My question was simple:

When did Elijah die and become dust?

TenQ:
■My question was simple: When did Elijah die and become dust?

Abel, Noah, Enoch( no record of him dying at all), Seth, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, etc. , examples of men who also didn't turn to dust --- they were all righteous men. So why would Elijah have had to turn to dust?

Kobojunkie:
Abel, Noah, Enoch( no record of him dying at all), Seth, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, etc. , examples of men who also didn't turn to dust --- they were all righteous men. So why would Elijah have had to turn to dust?

Thanks for reminding me of Enoch!

Another exception!?


You cannot put God in your cage bro!

TenQ:
Thanks for reminding me of Enoch! Another exception!? You cannot put God in your cage bro!

Exception to what exactly?

You are here asserting that God is not faithful and hence should not be trusted to abide by His own agreement to men. And you think I am the one putting Him in a cage?

Kobojunkie:
Exception to what exactly?

You are here asserting that God is not faithful and hence should not be trusted to abide by His own agreement to men. And you think I am the one putting Him in a cage?

God made the rule of death for mankind : true or false?
Enoch was an exception to the rule of death for mankind : true or false?

TenQ:

I didn't even mention the name of Jesus nor did I say anything about God.

But the children of hate must live according to the seed of hate in them.

Bottom line based on his Own Report :
He was sick and died
Went to Hell as a Atheist
Received Mercy
No more an Atheist

If you have spare time, answer kobojunkie. She is really a junkie.

MightySparrow:



If you have spare time, answer kobojunkie. She is really a junkie.

I've always thought Kobojunkie is a man. Is she truly a woman!?
If she is, she must be truly caustic and difficult to live with.

TenQ:

I've always thought Kobojunkie is a man. Is she truly a woman!?
If she is, she must be truly caustic and difficult to live with.

Check her profile, she even has her picture there like Jezebel's

MightySparrow:


Check her profile, she even has her picture there like Jezebel's

Okay.
I'll do so!

TenQ:

I didn't even mention the name of Jesus nor did I say anything about God.

But the children of hate must live according to the seed of hate in them.

Bottom line based on his Own Report :
He was sick and died
Went to Hell as a Atheist
Received Mercy
No more an Atheist

A near death experience where the "Bottom line based on his Own Report is He was sick and died".

Surely, it could not have been near if he died, or could it?

Then he goes to hell, as religiously expected, since that's where he's been informed atheists go, and he expects to be believed of course. lol.

Guess he might not have heard of Swedenborg who went to heaven and also to hell without nearing death not to talk of dying.

Wawelexy:



You never had an encounter, you thought you had....

So too did the person in the YouTube "thought he had" but you don't doubt his encounter now, do you?

Is that because you'd rather believe what you see in a YouTube than what a human you can question directly tells you perhaps?

budaatum:


A near death experience where the "Bottom line based on his Own Report is He was sick and died".

Surely, it could not have been near if he died, or could it?

Then he goes to hell, as religiously expected, since that's where he's been informed atheists go, and he expects to be believed of course. lol.

Guess he might not have heard of Swedenborg who went to heaven and also to hell without nearing death not to talk of dying.

If you had checked carefully, I was careful to let him speak his Own testimony.

All I ask is that you ask yourself the question : Could this have being an eleborate fabrication?

He saw himself in a bad loveless place!
For want of language, the nearest word would be hell.

The conclusion :
He stopped being an Atheist!

TenQ:

The aim of my post is just one: that Atheists consider the evidence that beyond death is not oblivion. That live exists beyond the physical (God, Angels , Demons are real).

The thread is Not doctrine in any ways that is why I didn't make it religious in nature

Please, TenQ, this thread is doctrine.

Everyone who lives knows that though from inside our mothers do we come forth, dust is what we return to when we die despite all the claims we wish to make about near death which is not death!

TenQ:

Lazarus was resurrected by Jesus
The little girl was resurected by Jesus

How many in a million deaths for any reason gets returned back?

Every Christian believe in miracles : a miracle is a temporary suspension of the natural laws

It also seems to be the temporary suspension of the use of the brain if you asked me.

But perhaps that's why "Christians", some at least, never hunger, because manna miraculously falls into their mouths from heaven, and despite God being written to have supposedly stated otherwise, that you would sweat (work) before you eat!

TenQ:

I laugh with you too.... VERY FUNNY!

Except this is a blatant fabrication, I honestly don't understand how a dead person on his bed can see outside his room and seeing his weeping wife.

I've been laughing at this too. Very funny!

Ah. And there was me thinking you believed it.

My apology is tendered

budaatum:


So too did the person in the YouTube "thought he had" but you don't doubt his encounter now, do you?

Is that because you'd rather believe what you see in a YouTube than what a human you can question directly tells you perhaps?

I have been there myself, so I know what he's talking about.... Someone who has never been to China can never describe how it looks to you that have been there severally.... From his description, you can always tell if truly he's been there or maybe someone told him or better still he saw it in a book or video... Hope you get my point?

TenQ:

If you had checked carefully, I was careful to let him speak his Own testimony.

All I ask is that you ask yourself the question : Could this have being an eleborate fabrication?

He saw himself in a bad loveless place!
For want of language, the nearest word would be hell.

The conclusion :
He stopped being an Atheist!

It could be an elaborate conscious elaborate fabrication, like Swedenborg's, or an unconscious elaborate fabrication brought on by his mind while he was near death. Fact is, it is not a experience of a real thing that actually happened.

Wawelexy:

I have been there myself, so I know what he's talking about.... Someone who has never been to China can never describe how it looks to you that have been there severally.... From his description, you can always tell if truly he's been there or maybe someone told him or better still he saw it in a book or video... Hope you get my point?

Let me post my passport below so you can check for yourself if it has China entry visa stamped on it or not, then perhaps we can look to see the point to be gotten.

budaatum:


First. Triple, everything any of us says is just our opinion based on our experiences or what we've learnt somewhere or been taught or told or made up in our own heads.

Now, I myself have experienced almost dying twice, once when I drank up all the water at the Bar Beach, and another time when 30, 5 milligram valium tablets found a way to jump down my throat.

At both instances were there what many describe as near death experiences, but the clue is clearly in the "near", which implies not exactly dead, and which means brain (and nervous system) activity has not exactly stopped, though I must confess that no one measured how close to death I actually was since they thankfully were more focused on keeping me alive.

budaatum:


Let me post my passport below so you can check for yourself if it has China entry visa stamped on it or not, then perhaps we can look to see the point to be gotten.

Well, your near death experience does not in any relate to having an encounter with the most high, near death experiences are natural but rare, while having an encounter with God is sacred and for only the chosen one, that's the difference you failed to see....