budaatum:


This is just utter nonsense. If a remedy effects a cure, it has worked. And that work is the evidence of its efficacy. And scientist will search to discover why it works because that's what scientists do, they find causes for effects, and effects for causes. And if one scientist ignores that effect or cause, many others wouldn't so science can not ignore. But who goes looking for "no evidence it can effect a cure" just because "people are already using it everywhere to treat themselves with perfect results"? Hasn't research shown numerous so called cures that have had no effect despite the user claiming they have? Should objective evidence of a cure not be ascertained before you claim it works?

I guess its to do with how your brain works. But I would however leave you with some wise words once uttered.
https://www.nairaland.com/6589774/sandra-ezekwesili-prophet-tb-joshua/6#102467464

If I found a way to ascertain it works , what is wrong with that ?

Do you know the reason why some herbal products in the market comes with this disclaimer , 'the claims of cure in this product is not yet proven '

triplechoice:


If I found a way to ascertain it works , what is wrong with that ?

Do you know the reason why some herbal products in the market comes with this disclaimer , 'the claims of cure in this product is not yet proven '

If you found a way to ascertain it works, nothing is wrong with that at all. Just that we will ask you to provide us with the tests and studies you did to ascertain it works, and we will perform those tests ourselves to ascertain it works too. We wouldn't just take your word for it.

"Herbal products in the market comes with this disclaimer" because it has not been proven to cure what they claim. Its like if you found a way to ascertain it works but refuse to provide evidence of your claim for scrutiny or scrutiny of your tests failed to ascertain what you claim you ascertained, when you bottle it to sell, we will insist you label it with "the claims of cure in this product is not yet proven", and that's provided you prove it's not toxic, in which case we shall not let you sell it all. Snake oil would come under that label except those who sell it leave it off to deceive.

budaatum:


If you found a way to ascertain it works, nothing is wrong with that at all. Just that we will ask you to provide us with the tests and studies you did to ascertain it works, and we will perform those tests ourselves to ascertain it works too. We wouldn't just take your word for it.

"Herbal products in the market comes with this disclaimer" because it has not been proven to cure what they claim. Its like if you found a way to ascertain it works but refuse to provide evidence of your claim for scrutiny or scrutiny of your tests failed to ascertain what you claim you ascertained, when you bottle it to sell, we will insist you label it with "the claims of cure in this product is not yet proven", and that's provided you prove it's not toxic, in which case we shall not let you sell it all. Snake oil would come under that label except those who sell it leave it off to deceive.

You don't still get it.

There's a difference between ,'it works ' and 'what makes it to work .

There are herbal remedies in the market , right now,which are very effective in curing some ailments that main stream scientist have yet to find a cure for .

Most people, who use them, know they work , not because they carried out any scientific studies or test of their own before usage ,but because it has helped them personally to treat a particular ailment they once sufferred from ,and also know of millions of others who have also benefited in the same way .

The product manufacturer may have carried out scientific research on his own to know why it works and is sure about that ,but not yet confirmed by other scientist .


Scientific analysis or study done by others in the main body of sciences to determine if an herbal product , or claim ,can effect a cure goes through a very strict and rigorous process.. In most cases ,it usually takes time and huge amount of funding to conduct .

Scientists and regulatory agencies , don't always have all the funds available each time to ascertain all claims of cure ,or any other kinds of claims ,made by anyone, or group of persons . Different claims keep coming up every now and then .



Another another thing you need to know is that , the person who is making the herbal claim is not allowed to provide the funding for such confirmation in order not to unduly influence what other scientist will be doing to validate it.



It's because you are unaware of what goes on within the scientific community ,you just assume that if an individual scientist or group of scientist present their own research findings for just about anything for verification, then it will be investigated immediately . Not so.

You have used to personal pronoun ,we' as if you are a trained scientist and so know better when infact you are clueless about some of those things .Don't pretend what you are not to win argument . Be yourself .

Everything is not investigated and not everthing will be investigated . You as an individual will sometimes need to do that yourself instead of waiting lazily all the time for scientist to come up with something before you start taking advantage of it.



Those in the main body of the sciences are not too keen to validate herbal claims ,especially if there's already an orthodox cure available . We all saw that during the covid 19 pandemic .

There's politics in the sciences too. Morever ,Scientist are also humans with their own
personal bias which sometimes influences their decision making .

I'm not against scientist or science ,far from it ,but only follow it with common sense, and not just swallow everything and end up being used as a guinea pig , or start acting irrationally based on wrong conclusion arrived at in the sciences which will be later abandoned for another .

However ,there are enough reasons to trust scientists more than pastors ,but one should always apply common sense .



People are always coming up with different claims of cure ,some very good ,others empty claims .

So in the absence of scientific validation by the 'we' ,how do we know which claim is true or false ?

It's by verifying it ourselves , and using it ,if not toxic, while waiting waiting for confirmation from the ' we'


. If it's not toxic and works ,without scientific validation, use it. .



This is my position .

And why are you against this and don't want me to speak my truth which others who don't know about it could benefit from ?

The worst part you have not provided any reasonable alternative .

Is precognition a possibilty and are there benefits for possessing this ability

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/202107/the-possibility-precognition%3famp

triplechoice:



You don't still get it.

There's a difference between ,'it works ' and 'what makes it to work .

There are herbal remedies in the market , right now,which are very effective in curing some ailments that main stream scientist have yet to find a cure for .

Most people, who use them, know they work , not because they carried out any scientific studies or test of their own before usage ,but because it has helped them personally to treat a particular ailment they once sufferred from ,and also know of millions of others who have also benefited in the same way .

The product manufacturer may have carried out scientific research on his own to know why it works and is sure about that ,but not yet confirmed by other scientist .


Scientific analysis or study done by others in the main body of sciences to determine if an herbal product , or claim ,can effect a cure goes through a very strict and rigorous process.. In most cases ,it usually takes time and huge amount of funding to conduct .

Scientists and regulatory agencies , don't always have all the funds available each time to ascertain all claims of cure ,or any other kinds of claims ,made by anyone, or group of persons . Different claims keep coming up every now and then .



Another another thing you need to know is that , the person who is making the herbal claim is not allowed to provide the funding for such confirmation in order not to unduly influence what other scientist will be doing to validate it.



It's because you are unaware of what goes on within the scientific community ,you just assume that if an individual scientist or group of scientist present their own research findings for just about anything for verification, then it will be investigated immediately . Not so.

You have used to personal pronoun ,we' as if you are a trained scientist and so know better when infact you are clueless about some of those things .Don't pretend what you are not to win argument . Be yourself .

Everything is not investigated and not everthing will be investigated . You as an individual will sometimes need to do that yourself instead of waiting lazily all the time for scientist to come up with something before you start taking advantage of it.



Those in the main body of the sciences are not too keen to validate herbal claims ,especially if there's already an orthodox cure available . We all saw that during the covid 19 pandemic .

There's politics in the sciences too. Morever ,Scientist are also humans with their own
personal bias which sometimes influences their decision making .

I'm not against scientist or science ,far from it ,but only follow it with common sense, and not just swallow everything and end up being used as a guinea pig , or start acting irrationally based on wrong conclusion arrived at in the sciences which will be later abandoned for another .

However ,there are enough reasons to trust scientists more than pastors ,but one should always apply common sense .



People are always coming up with different claims of cure ,some very good ,others empty claims .

So in the absence of scientific validation by the 'we' ,how do we know which claim is true or false ?

It's by verifying it ourselves , and using it ,if not toxic, while waiting waiting for confirmation from the ' we'


. If it's not toxic and works ,without scientific validation, use it. .



This is my position .

And why are you against this and don't want me to speak my truth which others who don't know about it could benefit from ?

The worst part you have not provided any reasonable alternative .

Most pharmaceutical drugs are “herbal”.

A person coming up with a herbal drink that’s medicinal is practicing Science already.

Is “science” synonymous with “white” people?


All these people selling herbs in the market know how fermentation and other scientific method works and its effects to produce it. They know what leaves contain which and which vitamins, all these are part of “science”.

Maynmann:

Most pharmaceutical drugs are “herbal”.

A person coming up with a herbal drink that’s medicinal is practicing Science already.

Is “science” synonymous with “white” people?


All these people selling herbs in the market know how fermentation and other scientific method works and its effects to produce it. They know what leaves contain which and which vitamins, all these are part of “science”.

I agree with you mayman ,but your observation is not the bone of contention here .

I have advised you before to go back and read how it all started so you don't misconstrue me again and again .

And where did I say science is synonymous with white people ?

triplechoice:

There's a difference between ,'it works ' and 'what makes it to work.

Of course there's a difference in cause and effect, but you only find out what makes a thing work after you have ascertained sufficiently that it works, and both require detail records of the method used for both which is what science is.

triplechoice:
It's because you are unaware of what goes on within the scientific community ,you just assume that if an individual scientist or group of scientist present their own research findings for just about anything for verification, then it will be investigated immediately . Not so.

Of course "not so"! You first have to have competence in the chosen field and your research has to show significant improvements on previous research for anyone to bother, and the reason they would bother is because there's money in doing so. And it's not true you can't fund your own scrutiny. Companies do it all the time, and even pay to have results fiddled, though they are usually rumbled in the end.

triplechoice:

If it's not toxic and works ,without scientific validation, use it. .

This is my position.

Coming from a home shared by a medical professional, I can't possibly be that stupid and ignorant.

Cure for temperature amongst many is to cover the shivering person in lots of clothing which rises their temperature even further. Some don't have fits but many do and die, but ask those who live and they'd claim it works.

Once, ma got called by a parent in the neighbourhood. Her daughter was burning hot, please help. On arrival, ma took child's temperature, quickly took child's clothes and blanket coverings off child and dunked (I exaggerate small), child in the woman's Coca-Cola cooler. Minutes later the child's temperature dropped and after being treated for malaria the child was well a few days later.

That's why we do science, as in keep objective records of the tests we do that prove a thing works or not. This objective evidence we record is what shows whether a thing worked or not, and if it works, we do more science to find out what makes it work.

triplechoice:

And why are you against this and don't want me to speak my truth which others who don't know about it could benefit from ?

The worst part you have not provided any reasonable alternative.

Your subjective truth, you mean, which you are trying very hard but failing to present as some sort of objective truth?

Seriously, I am surprised you'd think your claims would not be scrutinised here. You'd think your time here would have thought you it would, but I guess you might have failed to consider the feedback you been getting.

The alternative, which I am very certain many others get here is, use your senses to check all spirits. It's even in a book read by many, though I don't expect you to see it in that context.

budaatum:


Coming from a home shared by a medical professional, I can't possibly be that stupid and ignorant.

Cure for temperature amongst many is to cover the shivering person in lots of clothing which rises their temperature even further. Some don't have fits but many do and die, but ask those who live and they'd claim it works.

Once, ma got called by a parent in the neighbourhood. Her daughter was burning hot, please help. On arrival, ma took child's temperature, quickly took child's clothes and blanket coverings off child and dunked (I exaggerate small), child in the woman's Coca-Cola cooler. Minutes later the child's temperature dropped and after being treated for malaria the child was well a few days later.

That's why we do science, as in keep objective records of the tests we do that prove a thing works or not. This objective evidence we record is what shows whether a thing worked or not, and if it works, we do more science to find out what makes it work.


Your subjective truth, you mean, which you are trying very hard but failing to present as some sort of objective truth?

Seriously, I am surprised you'd think your claims would not be scrutinised here. You'd think your time here would have thought you it would, but I guess you might have failed to consider the feedback you been getting.

The alternative, which I am very certain many others get here is, use your senses to check all spirits. It's even in a book read by many, though I don't expect you to see it in that context.

You failed already and just grasping at straws .

How can you scrutinize what you are clueless about ?

What do you know about most of the things I have mentioned . Nothing.

Do they teach them in regular schools? . No

Do you have any direct experience on any of these things. No .

So tell me, what have you been depending on to examine them ?

Can t you see you have been acting irrationally with your failed attempts to make mockery of what I have so far presented ?

I have advised you before ,Stick to what you know so you don't continue to overreach yourself . You have fumbled already ,and without shame still want to continue .

You don't know the difference between precognition and premonition .

You don't know what a 'third eye ' refers to . You think it's a real third eye in the middle of ones head .Lol . I Shared a link to educate you ,but won't read it because you think you know everything .

You don't know the technical meaning of NDE ,nor do you know the difference between OBE and NDE,.

The worst part you don't know what constitute a valid scientific research ,or what scientific evidence really means amongs scientist who use that technical expression all the time .

Despite not understanding any of these ,you want to believe you are in a position to advise me to use my senses , when you have learnt how to use yours very well? I think something is really wrong with you .You need help

The only thing you are good at is clowning yourself with you other fiend


BTW none of the things I have mentioned are my subjective truths ,but truths about the human being and the world we live iñ ,which most people are not aware of.

They have become my own truths because I have earned them from some of the understanding I have gotten from how my consciousness operates . Are you aware of how yours. You should channel your attention there ?

Please just ignore me if what I present here is causing you cognitive dissonance . Both of us cannot have the same life experiences . Look to yours and learn from it .

Sages of old have advised ,'man know thyseif ' what do you know of yourself ?

What are you ?

You like to use the Bible , and it says , 'the kingdom of God is within you . What does this mean ?


I replied Lordreed, not you .Give him the space to respond if he wants to and don't derail my conversation with him.

If you think my claims are not scientifically proven, ( you don't even know what that means ) then don't buy my 'herbal products '

But as long as I have issued a disclaimer , I acted responsibly and so free to 'sell'. Please look elsewhere for your cure . I don't have what you are looking for .

Thank you .

budaatum:

Of course there's a difference in cause and effect, but you only find out what makes a thing work after you have ascertained sufficiently that it works, and both require detail records of the method used for both which is what science is.

Not everyone is properly trained to carry out scientific research concerning the things they use or consume . You didnt make any sense here.

Of course "not so"! You first have to have competence in the chosen field and your research has to show significant improvements on previous research for anyone to bother, and the reason they would bother is because there's money in doing so. And it's not true you can't fund your own scrutiny. Companies do it all the time, and even pay to have results fiddled, though they are usually rumbled in the end.

You answered your previous comments here . There must be competence in carrying out research . Not everyone can do it .

The local woman who sells local herbal remedies lack competence to scientifically explain how what she sells work .

As long as it's not toxic, please allow her to sell her products in peace . Look elsewhere for your cure .

At least you see the sense why products manufactures should not do so .

budaatum:


This is just utter nonsense. If a remedy effects a cure, it has worked. And that work is the evidence of its efficacy. And scientist will search to discover why it works because that's what scientists do, they find causes for effects, and effects for causes.

You are yapping nonsense because you don't know the difference between anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence . And why did you not specify what remedy this time .

You want to deceive yourself . We are talking about herbal remedy which sometimes is not scientifically proven and not any other kind . Stick with that .

And if one scientist ignores that effect or cause, many others wouldn't so science can not ignore. But who goes looking for "no evidence it can effect a cure" just because "people are already using it everywhere to treat themselves with perfect results"? Hasn't research shown numerous so called cures that have had no effect despite the user claiming they have? Should objective evidence of a cure not be ascertained before you claim it works?

I guess its to do with how your brain works. But I would however leave you with some wise words once uttered.
https://www.nairaland.com/6589774/sandra-ezekwesili-prophet-tb-joshua/6#102467464

Gibberish and irrelevant nonsense you brought in.

I'm not interested in guess work to know how my consciousness work. If you depend on that ,goodluck .i

People don't have cognitive dreams because they believe in it
It has nothing to do with believe It's a natural phenomenon . Even atheist have such dreams that come to pass .

triplechoice:


Not everyone is properly trained to carry out scientific research concerning the things they use or consume . You didnt make any sense here.




You answered your previous comments here . There must be competence in carrying out research . Not everyone can do it .

The local woman who sells local herbal remedies lack competence to scientifically explain how what she sells work .

As long as it's not toxic, please allow her to sell her products in peace . Look elsewhere for your cure .

At least you see the sense why products manufactures should not do so .

You should at least be sufficiently "properly trained to carry out scientific research concerning the things" you plan to sell to the public don't you think? Most societies have their NAFDAC to ensure not properly trained you don't sell your untested snake skin oil to the public.

triplechoice:


You are yapping nonsense because you don't know the difference between anecdotal evidence and scientific evidence . And why did you not specify what remedy this time .

You want to deceive yourself . We are talking about herbal remedy which sometimes is not scientifically proven and not any other kind . Stick with that .

Gibberish and irrelevant nonsense you brought in.

I'm not interested in guess work to know how my consciousness work. If you depend on that ,goodluck .i

Triple, let us not rely on guess work. Gods forbid, but if you fall ill I am guessing you will not go to a herbalist for a herbal remedy that is not scientifically proven unless you are broke and poor. Tell me you wouldn't go to a scientifically trained medical doctor instead.

triplechoice:

If you think my claims are not scientifically proven, ( you don't even know what that means ) then don't buy my 'herbal products '.

Your claims are not even properly reported anecdotes not to talk of scientifically proven, but no wonder you are so pained. buda is spoiling your market.

If you were conscious you'd have known this is the wrong place to set up stall to sell what you're selling, but you'd learn eventually I suppose.

budaatum:


You should at least be sufficiently "properly trained to carry out scientific research concerning the things" you plan to sell to the public don't you think? Most societies have their NAFDAC to ensure not properly trained you don't sell your untested snake skin oil to the public.

See d kind person I dey argue with . Chai.

Not everyone can do so doesn't mean some people aren't doing that or have done so in their own way . People can use a product base on anecdotal evidence pending the time it would be scientifically proven .

And how do you know if I have not done my own reseaech concerning the things I know?

These are natural abilities people are born with ,and can be also developed if you know how . So don't get it twisted with something external to the individual . I have put herbal products in quotes, in my recent reply ,and again you were blind to it .

. Scientist use the placebo effects in drug trials ,even when they don't yet know why the brain makes it work . Why dont you go ask them to stop using it since it's not yet scientifically proven .

Not everything people use and consume has been validated by main stream scientists . Some of it would probably be investigated later, others not ever

And as they usually say around here , know that ,and know peace .

If you want to know how to have precognitive dreams , learn to meditate and write down dreams . Do this stop and stop being an extremely cynical person who doubts everything unless proven to them .

With that ,you will have your own prove and stop bothering me .

Too much of everything is bad . It's good to be sceptical , but too much of it according to trained pyschologist is bad for ones mental health which may lead to poor decision making .

There are studies on this if you check the net


Good day .

https://www.reddit.com/r/TikTokCringe/comments/14hh824/he_crushed_this_explanation/


One of the submersible people had an OBE prior to the implosion. But he is now without a body because his turned into toothpaste upon vessel implosion. He is in need of a body and would like to ask the experts in the house if and how he can acquire a new one.

budaatum:


Triple, let us not rely on guess work. Gods forbid, but if you fall ill I am guessing you will not go to a herbalist for a herbal remedy that is not scientifically proven unless you are broke and poor. Tell me you wouldn't go to a scientifically trained medical doctor instead.

If orthodox medicine cant treat it ,you look for a good alternative to save your life if you value it .

Some people who find themselves in a situation like that have done so and got cured .

I once found my self ,in such a situation .

And after four years within and outside Nigeria meeting with different doctors running tests of different kinds ,medications ,in both tablets and injections ,It was easily cured using an alternative ,not yet proven scientifically , at a cost of only 2 thousand naira .

I went for text after and nothing is showing again .

It has been over 8 years now ,not repeat of those hellish times .

So I learnt something , if I exhaust all the things main stream science can provide for me through doctors and nurses ,and don't find solution ,then I look elsewhere . It has simple that.

This is what I do now . How you choose to live your life depends on you . I can only share my experiences for others to learn from . It's your prerogative to accept or reject . .



All of that aside ,what we are currently discussing is a deviation from the actual conversation I was having with Reed , and it's because you went off on a tangent .


The main focus is , did consciousness or mind emerged from brain or matter , I said no, and
have given my own reasons, which some other people around the world also accept and agree to.

But you , have never for once answered the question to enable one know where you stand on the matter .

So once again ,tell us ,based on what you know, has mind or consciousness emerged from matter ? Yes or no.

The last time you refused to answer and I hope you don't do so again.

And if you don't answer directly this time ,then it means you are engaged in deceptive arguments .


You cannot argue strongly for and against something at the same time . Only a confused person would act that way and end up contradicting himself along the way .

And that's what has happened to you when you suggested ignorantly that the brain is what causes precognition .

No neuroscientist has ever affirmed that the brain is responsible for precognition .What they normally say is either we don't know or it's concindence or chance .

The reason they say so is because of the knowledge of the natural laws which controls the functioning of the human brain ;

mind, according to science ,cannot separate from the brain to make one have an external visual awareness of something A.K.A OBE..

Mind should not be confused for consciousness ,the real person, inhabiting a physical body and using it to experience live materially .

Precognition is a kind of OBE where the individuals consciousness expand beyond the confines of the physical body and the brain, to perceive events in the future time track to know what is to come . It can happen in the dream or waking state . Most people only know of the latter and conclude based on that, it's just a dream . One can experince precognition with one' s eyes wide open ,with what is seen, viewed in one's inner mental screen like a movie ..

The brain cannot make this happen due to its limitations . There's a limit to which it can preceives anything . The knowledge of how the brain works is why neuroscience says precognition is not possible from a scientific point of view, and have been coming up with all manner of speculatory theories to explain it away,yet everyday in different parts of the world people continue to have the experience. It's a case of seeing the evidence and denying it.

But however ,the honest one's who are not in denial ,will simply say we don't know, or it can't be explained . That ends the matter .

But you buda, who is ignorant of all of the science behind how the human brain works has suggested ignorantly and naively, it's the brain . Just go and prove it then ,and earn a nobel prize in the sciences . Goodluck

If you going to reply to this ,first of all state your position ,without which the conversation has ended .

I don't have the time to discuss with someone who maintains an ambivalent position on something being discussed . That's the typical behaviour of a deceptive and dishonesty argumentator who wants to talk frolm both sides of the mouth to avoid being pinned down on anything he cannot defend .

You cant deceive me Buda.. Tell us where you stand and stop hiding behind Lordreed .Use your own brain to think and share your own thoughts first, before sharing wikipedia articles in support .

That's how it's done .

budaatum:


Triple, let us not rely on guess work. Gods forbid, but if you fall ill I am guessing you will not go to a herbalist for a herbal remedy that is not scientifically proven unless you are broke and poor. Tell me you wouldn't go to a scientifically trained medical doctor instead.

I admit it's anecdotal evidence and not reliable, and that is why added until scientifically proven , to make you understand my position on it. .

If you cannot find what is scientifically proven , you can try the one's proven anecdotally ,to work ,pending the time it will properly investigated by scientist who may end up after all confirming it's good . If they say it's not good or toixc ,then abandoned it.

Even in the sciences ,people are sometimes adviced to stop using a particular medication once further test proves it's harmful or can cause adverse side effects .



Most discoveries in the sciences are inspired by anecdotal evidence .

I know you don't know this , hence the reason you have regurgitated what you read online about anecdotal evidence , without giving a thought to at all to how it can be helpful .

I'm afraid you are displaying extremist thinking , Buda.

triplechoice:

Not everyone can do so doesn't mean some people aren't doing that or have done so in their own way . People can use a product base on anecdotal evidence pending the time it would be scientifically proven.

People give their money to gods too, and digest sniper that has been proven to kill, so I'd hesitate at using what people do as evidence.

triplechoice:
And how do you know if I have not done my own reseaech concerning the things I know?

I know because whatever evidence you have so far presented is anecdotal at best, and of little quality and value.

triplechoice:
These are natural abilities people are born with......

Sorry, but I do not do "natural abilities people are born with".

People used to call on my ma at all hours, some caught short and not being able to get to hospital. At nights it was mostly labour, a woman on the verge of birth giving. My job was to ensure water was boiled and towels were at hand to receive the arriving baby.

It always amazed me that the babys were not born with the most normally expected natiral ability to breath, and only learnt by reacting to their new environment.

If we did not teach humans how and where to shìt they'd be shítting on themselves due to the lack of the "natural ability" to know better.

triplechoice:
Scientist use the placebo effects in drug trials ,even when they don't yet know why the brain makes it work . Why dont you go ask them to stop using it since it's not yet scientifically proven.

You should try reading instead of focusing on your market. It will help you learn to improve your product

budaatum:
"This is just utter nonsense. If a remedy effects a cure, it has worked. And that work is the evidence of its efficacy."

The placebo works. And for your information, there's sufficient knowledge out there about why and how it works that you can go find out if you are not too lazy to do the work.

And it's you who's hell bent on "why it works, and not me. I don't know why nor how NDEs or OBEs or even dreams work and people still claim to have had them.

triplechoice:
Too much of everything is bad.

This is true, Triple, very true indeed. I myself apply it to writing on here by not writing long senseless tirades that only muddle and deduct from conversations. Those who write too much tend not to be listening to themselves and have problems reflecting. Point is, after the above, I stopped reading. My time is too precious to be wasted on nonsense.

triplechoice:

If you cannot find what is scientifically proven , you can try the one's proven anecdotally ,to work ,pending the time it will properly investigated by scientist who may end up after all confirming it's good . If they say it's not good or toixc ,then abandoned it.

There's different sorts of anecdotal evidence. I've used 2 stories from my past so far as anecdotal evidence of my claim, and I don't expect you to believe nor accept my anecdotal evidence as scientific evidence for my claim because it isn't.

There is so much "scientifically proven" out there to try before you get to "proven anecdotally", Triple, though I confess that depends on the environment one is in. If one were poor and healthcare cost tons, one would need to consider the financial cost of a cure and thereby go for alternatives than more expensive proven cures for instance. I have a friend who tried alternatives. She had breast cancer and refused the scientifically proven treatments, preferring the alternative herbal treatments. She died in 3 years while a neighbour of mine survived for 25 years of the same breast cancer because she went to hospital.

"Scientifically proven" does not necessarily mean a thing has to be investigated by scientist, since any individual can investigate if a thing works themselves. We do it with all medications we take be they herbal or more rigourously tested medicines. We take them, and if we survive, they've worked. And that's us doing science, as in, using our own senses to judge a thing. If I then recommend that cure to someone else, the least I could do, if I'm the honest educated sort, is keep records of the outcomes, which is just more science, as it gives me data that I can objectively consider. That's the sort of "science" the TB Joshuas of this world don't do that makes us skeptical of their claims. At best they present anecdotal evidence. In reality they are scammers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTfKpAWkgJY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZbR5DMksDE

triplechoice:

So once again ,tell us ,based on what you know, has mind or consciousness emerged from matter ? Yes or no.

Yes, Triple, if matter means physical substance in general, which occupies space and possesses rest mass, and despite my hesitance at the word, "emerge".

Mind and consciousness are inherent in living things (as opposed to your "emerged" ), which are matter because they have physical substance which occupies space and possesses rest mass.

That is not to say all physical substance which occupies space and possesses rest mass has a mind and or consciousness as one would note from observing a rock.

[url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%E2%80%93body_problem]Here's a link[/url] to some reading explaining how the mind and body (matter) are interlinked. It should get you up to speed.

triplechoice:



[b]So once again ,tell us ,based on what you know, has mind or consciousness emerged from matter ? Yes or no.

The last time you refused to answer and I hope you don't do so again.

And if you don't answer directly this time ,then it means you are engaged in deceptive arguments .


You cannot argue strongly for and against something at the same time . Only a confused person would act that way and end up contradicting himself along the way .

. [/b



You cant deceive me Buda.. Tell us where you stand and stop hiding behind Lordreed .Use your own brain to think and share your own thoughts first, before sharing wikipedia articles in support .

That's how it's done .

@ budaatum, you have started to deflect again . Just answer the question first ,then will gladly respond to you mentions .

Where do you stand . Has mind emerged from matter .? Yes or no

Lordreed and others have stood for something and been defendiing it .

You cannot deceive me with your chameleonic antics

budaatum:


Yes, Triple, if matter means physical substance in general, which occupies space and possesses rest mass, and despite my hesitance at the word, "emerge".

Mind and consciousness are inherent in living things (as opposed to your "emerged" ), which are matter because they have physical substance which occupies space and possesses rest mass.

That is not to say all physical substance which occupies space and possesses rest mass has a mind and or consciousness as one would note from observing a rock.

[url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind%E2%80%93body_problem]Here's a link[/url] to some reading explaining how the mind and body (matter) are interlinked. It should get you up to speed.

Good .
Then provide evidence in support of your ,yes,

It must be peer reviewed ,not wikipedia articles which contains soeculatory theories .

budaatum:

There's different sorts of anecdotal evidence. I've used 2 stories from my past so far as anecdotal evidence of my claim, and I don't expect you to believe nor accept my anecdotal evidence as scientific evidence for my claim because it isn't.

There is so much "scientifically proven" out there to try before you get to "proven anecdotally", Triple, though I confess that depends on the environment one is in. If one were poor and healthcare cost tons, one would need to consider the financial cost of a cure and thereby go for alternatives than more expensive proven cures for instance. I have a friend who tried alternatives. She had breast cancer and refused the scientifically proven treatments, preferring the alternative herbal treatments. She died in 3 years while a neighbour of mine survived for 25 years of the same breast cancer because she went to hospital.

"Scientifically proven" does not necessarily mean a thing has to be investigated by scientist, since any individual can investigate if a thing works themselves. We do it with all medications we take be they herbal or more rigourously tested medicines. We take them, and if we survive, they've worked. And that's us doing science, as in, using our own senses to judge a thing. If I then recommend that cure to someone else, the least I could do, if I'm the honest educated sort, is keep records of the outcomes, which is just more science, as it gives me data that I can objectively consider. That's the sort of "science" the TB Joshuas of this world don't do that makes us skeptical of their claims. At best they present anecdotal evidence. In reality they are scammers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTfKpAWkgJY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZbR5DMksDE

Nonsense .

I explained how I tried othordox medicine first , in and outside Nigeria for years . Why did you miss that part . Do you know where I went to and the money I spent ?

As for scientific proven you don't know what it really means in the sciences ,just like you don' also know what is scientific theory.

I saw how you displayed your ignorance in another thread concerning that .

Meet with a real scientist to teach you, one on one, what both really means ,and stop depending on what you read on Wikipedia.

What is scientific evidence ,

https://theconversation.com/scientific-evidence-what-is-it-and-how-can-we-trust-it-14716

triplechoice:

Meet with a real scientist to teach you, one on one, what both really means ,and stop depending on what you read on Wikipedia.

What is scientific evidence ,

https://theconversation.com/scientific-evidence-what-is-it-and-how-can-we-trust-it-14716

I'm certain we can agree that you have not done anything that is described in the link you posted. And that's why we claim your so called evidence lacks credibility.

triplechoice:


Good .
Then provide evidence in support of your ,yes,

It must be peer reviewed ,not wikipedia articles which contains soeculatory theories .

Dude, I do not need to provide you with evidence that your mind is a part of your body since I am offering my subjective opinion and not some objective fact, and because it's perfectly okay with me if you don't think your mind is part of your body.

Besides, evidence is me educating you, and it's not like you paid school fees or deserve to be taught by me.

budaatum:


I'm certain we can agree that you have not done anything that is described in the link you posted. And that's why we claim your so called evidence lacks credibility.

SMH. Why should I should I do so when I m not traned scientist .

I not surprised you will read the article and misinterprete it

Scientific evidence is information , but the question is ,what can of information is accepted as scientific evidence within the scientific community ,and the people capable of providing it , so one doesn't foolishly demand it from anyone .

The article provided a of set cretaria to enable one judge correctly what is scientific evidence different from any other kind of evidence that are still acceptable as valid prove of something .



I have always declared that the claims I make here are not fully supported by science ,but doesn't mean they are not true . And after saying so ,I usually provide information, evidence in support of my claims .

But because your mind cannot process them due to cognitive bias ,you erroneously think they are not valid ,and still insist I provide scientific evidence , as if you even know what that means . SMH.

Now that I have exposed your ignorance on the matter ,you are looking for where to hide your face as you usually do .

Pride and ego is why you will never accept that all along you have being mis using term by asking for scientific evidence for just about anything .

Only scientific illiterates pretending they are knowledgeable in the sciences behave
that way .

And you are one of such persons . I'm not the only one who have told you that .

Go get further education in the sciences if you like to use it all the time to interprete the worid around you so you stop fooling yourself ..

triplechoice:


SMH. Why should I should I do so when I m not traned scientist.

You should test your product before you bring it to market, Triple. Or you might arrive at the market and potential non-buyers call you fake.

budaatum:


Dude, I do not need to provide you with evidence that your mind is a part of your body since I am offering my subjective opinion and not some objective fact, and because it's perfectly okay with me if you don't think your mind is part of your body.

Besides, evidence is me educating you, and it's not like you paid school fees or deserve to be taught by me.

And where did I say my mind is not part of my body?

You are confused or something ?

The question is ,what is the source of the human consciousness? Matter or

Answer that if you know it, and stop twisting and turning .

budaatum:


You should test your product before you bring it to market, Triple. Or you might arrive at the market and potential non-buyers call you fake.

I have done that and millions of others in the world who also subscribe to the same thing ,which they know is true, 'have also done the same before announcing it to whomever cares to listen .

I'm not selling anything tangible to you . If I were ,I would not ask anyone to accept or reject it .That would be self sabotage.

The herbal products analogy is not understood by you yet. Besides I put it in quotes .

You continue to forget that because you want to grasp at straws

triplechoice:


I have done that and millions of others in the world who also subscribe to the same thing ,which they know is true, 'have also done the same before announcing it to whomever cares to listen .

Then simply present here the details of your tests instead of asking for anecdotes to be believed please. If one studys your evidence and finds what you found one might end up advertising it for you even if one finds no use for it oneself.

Those who care to listen to you will. I've been partially listening to you because I care too, and what I'm finding is unbelievable.

triplechoice:


And where did I say my mind is not part of my body?

Well, you did ask me to 0r9ve to you that it was, do it wouldn't exactly be remise if me to assume you thought otherwise.

triplechoice:
The question is ,what is the source of the human consciousness? Matter or

Answer that if you know it, and stop twisting and turning .

Your question is as senseless as asking what the source of the universe is. Hopefully, you are aware these things came into existence long before I did and any claim I may make about their source would be in the form of "dem say", which I have derided you for doing on here from the onset and so would not do so myself.

Fact however remains that consciousness, and mind, are inherent in living things which are matter, and thinking otherwise is to assume matter itself came out of thin air.

P.s. You might benefit from downloading and listening to Aristotle extensive writing on this subject.

https://archive.org/download/aristtl/Aristotle/Aristotle%20-%20Metaphysics.m4b

I sure would benefit if you do as it would bring you up to a level where you are competent to discuss the topic. Do note that more modern writings exist too, like Karl Popper for instance. Reading such books will reduce your belief in the rubbish you been spilling here, and give you insight into the relevant skills to help you determine if you think right or wrong.