Kay 17:

Faith is an identified and treasured aspect of Abrahamic religions, its what's constitutes authority for its holy books. For atheists, you mentioned newspaper!! How disingenious was that!

The ONLY universal belief among all atheists is the DISBELIEF in the religious concepts of Gods. There is no universal alternative, and the question of an alternative is irrelevant.

On all other topics, like afterlife, ultimate realities, morality, family life, economy, spirituality are left to the individual.

does this mean atheist doesnt disbelieve other non religious concept of God?

Can one worship a God without a religion?! Pls be realistic.

toba: does this mean atheist doesnt disbelieve other non religious concept of God?

The difference between religious gods and "non religious" gods is religion. Your god has a religion built around it and we have non religious people here who have their concepts of god. At the end of the day, they are all figments of your imagination.

Martian:

The difference between religious gods and "non religious" gods is religion. Your god has a religion built around it and we have non religious people here who have their concepts of god. At the end of the day, they are all figments of your imagination.

alright. For u as an individual, u believe that all concepts of God(religious and non religious) are false and no God exist

Kay 17: Can one worship a God without a religion?! Pls be realistic.

honestly, it depends on the definition of religion u want to work with. There are pple that believes in God yet are not religious or practising aany religion

there are no similarities. they are the same thing.

toba: honestly, it depends on the definition of religion u want to work with. There are pple that believes in God yet are not religious or practising aany religion

Some believe in God but are not "pious"

PAGAN 9JA:
there are no similarities. they are the same thing.

in some aspect they are the same but not in all aspect

Kay 17:

Some believe in God but are not "pious"

you are right just as some atheist dont believe in evolution, whilst others does

toba: in some aspect they are the same but not in all aspect

what i meant was, though they are outwardly not the same, one is eventually leading to the other. christianity is making people lose faith. .

PAGAN 9JA:



what i meant was, though they are outwardly not the same, one is eventually leading to the other. christianity is making people lose faith. .

thats not true. U can loose faith anyhow. eg if u lost ur loved ones, if u spend too much time on NL, reading the posts of the atheist lOl

toba: thats not true. U can loose faith anyhow. eg if u lost ur loved ones, if u spend too much time on NL, reading the posts of the atheist lOl

So you enjoy atheists posts, eh?

logicboy:

So you enjoy atheists posts, eh?

answer my questions now. no be u talk say there arent similarities between atheism and christianity. are u still hold to such claims?

toba: welcome on board and let's see how far u can go


can u please give the dictionary meaning of faith?

faith/fāTH/
Noun:
1)Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2)Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof


How does that apply to atheists?

toba:
how did u get to know about evolution?

Internet eg wikipedia and youtube

logicboy:
faith/fāTH/
Noun:
1)Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2)Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof

How does that apply to atheists?

does the first apply to atheists and atheism? if the first applys to them, then the 2nd might apply to some God believers

Internet eg wikipedia and youtube

fine. but u believed it as true hence it may or may not have shapened ur belief. Yes or no

toba: does the first apply to atheists and atheism? if the first applys to them, then the 2nd might apply to some God believers


fine. but u believed it as true hence it may or may not have shapened ur belief. Yes or no

I became an atheist because of slavery. The christian support of slavery. Evolution came after


As for faith, you are deceitfully using two definitions. Use one to explain what you are trying to say

stop this cos it wouldnt work with me on this thread. The topic is centred on extracting the similarities between the two beliefs, that we ve done already. Review the thread and u'll see failed attempts by atheists that are older than u, that their attempts ended in futility

logicboy:


I became an atheist because of slavery. The christian support of slavery. Evolution came after

No one is disputing how u became an atheist. My response was in English and unambiguous. Reading about evolution from the internet or in the papers may or may not have shapened ur belief. true of false

As for faith, you are deceitfully using two definitions. Use one to explain what you are trying to say

U are the one making an attempt to drift from the issue here.

Topic is not one side. its about Atheism and christianity. U provided the two definitions. If one is applicable to a belief, then the other should also apply to the 2nd one. Lets stay with the topic

toba: stop this cos it wouldnt work with me on this thread. The topic is centred on extracting the similarities between the two beliefs, that we ve done already. Review the thread and u'll see failed attempts by atheists that are older than u, that their attempts ended in futility No one is disputing how u became an atheist. My response was in English and unambiguous. Reading about evolution from the internet or in the papers may or may not have shapened ur belief. true of false

U are the one making an attempt to drift from the issue here.

Topic is not one side. its about Atheism and christianity. U provided the two definitions. If one is applicable to a belief, then the other should also apply to the 2nd one. Lets stay with the topic

Wrong, evolution did not have much effect on my atheism. I knew that there wasnt a god because there was no evidence for him. None. No god would have allowed the fate of slavery on anyone. Do you what it is to be the property of someone or to be castrated like an animal?

Evolution is not that important when you realise that many people were raised as atheists in Japan. Your evolution had nothing to do with their atheism. There are uneducated people that are atheists just because they were raised as atheists and they see no need for a god.


As for the meanings of faith, you are talking nonsense again. There is a difference in being faithful person and having faith in something. We all know what faith means. If you take the first definition, then you are saying that believing that your egg will boil if kept in boiling water on gas is faith. How illogical

Japanese are extremely religious. I have many Japanese friends. Their religion has helped speed up their advent into the modern world, especially after WWII.

PAGAN 9JA:
Japanese are extremely religious. I have many Japanese friends. Their religion has helped speed up their advent into the modern world, especially after WWII.

Religious or traditional? Religion or culture?


64% of Japanese clearly state that there is no God.

logicboy:


Religious or traditional? Religion or culture?


64% of Japanese clearly state that there is no God.

Religion is interdependant on Culture. I am talking about Traditional Religion. All my Japanese friends are Shinto, and the believe in Gods, nature spitis, etc. .

your statistics are definitely wrong. I am sure. Even the underworld Yakuza clan are staunch Shintoists, so is the Emperor, the high officials, the common people, everyone.

PAGAN 9JA:


Religion is interdependant on Culture. I am talking about Traditional Religion. All my Japanese friends are Shinto, and the believe in Gods, nature spitis, etc. .

your statistics are definitely wrong. I am sure. Even the underworld Yakuza clan are staunch Shintoists, so is the Emperor, the high officials, the common people, everyone.

You dont have Japanese friends and it is clear. Sorry. Any Japanese person will tell you that many japanese do not believe in God. Unlike you, I had a Japanese girlfriend.

As for my statistics. 84% of Japanese do not even have a personal religion. 64% do not believe in god
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan

logicboy:

You dont have Japanese friends and it is clear. Sorry. Any Japanese person will tell you that many japanese do not believe in God. Unlike you, I had a Japanese girlfriend.

As for my statistics. 84% of Japanese do not even have a personal religion. 64% do not believe in god
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan

you are behaving in a deluded manner. you have no idea about my friends. in fact, i can understand that if you have a Japanese girlfriend, it is obvious that she does not care for religious traditions in the first place or she wouldn't be with you. and i don't really believe that anyways.

second, you must read your link properly. it clearly says around 83% of Japanese population are Shinto. first read your own information and then come and argue with me.

PAGAN 9JA:



you are behaving in a deluded manner. you have no idea about my friends. in fact, i can understand that if you have a Japanese girlfriend, it is obvious that she does not care for religious traditions in the first place or she wouldn't be with you. and i don't really believe that anyways.

second, you must read your link properly. it clearly says around 83% of Japanese population are Shinto. first read your own information and then come and argue with me.

1) Did you read the full sentence?

"Figures that state 84% to 96% of Japanese adhere to Shinto and Buddhism are not based on self-identification but come primarily from birth records, following a longstanding practice of officially associating a family line with a local Buddhist temple or Shinto shrine"

Does that mean that they follow the religion or associate it with family tradition? Did you also ignore the following sentences after the one you quoted out of context;


84% of the Japanese claim no personal religion. In census questionnaires, less than 15 percent reported any formal religious affiliation by 2000.[9] And according to Demerath (2001:138), 64% do not believe in God, and 55% do not believe in Buddha.[10] According to Edwin Reischauer, and Marius Jansen, some 70 to 80 percent of the Japanese regularly tell pollsters they do not consider themselves believers in any religion.[1] Japanese streets are decorated on Tanabata, Obon and Christmas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan

2) I caught you lying because no Japanese person would ever tell you that Japan is religious. Unless he/she is lying to you

logicboy:




1) Did you read the full sentence?

"Figures that state 84% to 96% of Japanese adhere to Shinto and Buddhism are not based on self-identification but come primarily from birth records, following a longstanding practice of officially associating a family line with a local Buddhist temple or Shinto shrine"

Does that mean that they follow the religion or associate it with family tradition? Did you also ignore the following sentences after the one you quoted out of context;


84% of the Japanese claim no personal religion. In census questionnaires, less than 15 percent reported any formal religious affiliation by 2000.[9] And according to Demerath (2001:138), 64% do not believe in God, and 55% do not believe in Buddha.[10] According to Edwin Reischauer, and Marius Jansen, some 70 to 80 percent of the Japanese regularly tell pollsters they do not consider themselves believers in any religion.[1] Japanese streets are decorated on Tanabata, Obon and Christmas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan

2) I caught you lying because no Japanese person would ever tell you that Japan is religious. Unless he/she is lying to you

Listen here. you just ignored the sentence that more than 83 % of the Japanese follow Shinto religion and other similar statements because it suits your objective. Now listen to me here. Almost ALL Japanese follow Shinto religious traditions and Buddhism. Infact without it, they wouldnt even be able to conduct proper burials. Also, MOST believe in spirits and appeasing them. Infact, after the recent Nuclear disaster and the Tsunami before that, there has been a resurgence in religious activity.

To help you understand better, let me first tell you that Pagan religions are inseparable from the culture of the people. Why else do you think that a large portion of African religions have survived, disguised behind the thin veil of culture The Shinto do not believe in established religion or such Western concepts. To them, religion is a way of life. No wonder most Japanese are denying any religious affiliation. it is because they do not have any concept of established religion. That is Paganism to you. In our actual form, we do not have an established religion. IT is all part of our way of life, our culture and our identity. The Japanese subconsciously practice it as daily roles of their lives and not as performing religious duties.

This what you get when you interview a Japanese:

Do you believe in spirits?

Yes.

Do you believe in Gods and Budhha, etc?

Yes.


Do you worship @ Shrines and also take part in traditional festivals?


Yes.


Do you sacrifice, perform rituals, prayers, traditional burials, etc?

Yes.


Do you have a religion or are part of a religion?

NO.



In my case, the only reason im calling my religious traditions as "RELIGION" is becasue of the stiff competition against islam and christianity n Nigeria and other parts of the world and also because people will be able to relate better. As for my Japanese friends, i belong to International Pagan group and we have representatives from different ethnic groups and tribes, including the Japanese. and they understands our current goal which is why they said yes. They are aware of what i mean by religion.

now here are two websites. read them. they will give you a better idea of what i mean:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/14/how-japans-religions-confront-tragedy/

http://experiencingjapan./2012/02/01/are-the-japanese-religious/

PAGAN 9JA:




Do you believe in Gods and Budhha, etc?

Yes.

64% do not believe in God and so I doubt that question is real. Buddha is not a god also.


As for you, I wish not to argue with you. I am actuallay happy that you're a pagan. At least you follow your people's tradition/religion unlike the brainwashed Nigerians Christians and Muslims

logicboy:


64% do not believe in God and so I doubt that question is real. Buddha is not a god also.


As for you, I wish not to argue with you. I am actuallay happy that you're a pagan. At least you follow your people's tradition/religion unlike the brainwashed Nigerians Christians and Muslims

Thank you bro. (btw i said Gods "and" Buddha because of Japanese dual religion and syncretism. .)

usually in the past the Samurai were pro-Buddhist while the common man was more towards traditional Shinto.

logicboy:



Wrong, evolution did not have much effect on my atheism.

Im not saying it had much effect or less effect. Im telling u that having read about evolution where ever, it shapened ur belief and resolve about atheism.

I knew that there wasnt a god because there was no evidence for him. None. No god would have allowed the fate of slavery on anyone. Do you what it is to be the property of someone or to be castrated like an animal?

if u are talking about slavery here, im less concerned on this thread cos im not in support of slavery myself but we should try to stay on topic

Evolution is not that important when you realise that many people were raised as atheists in Japan. Your evolution had nothing to do with their atheism.

No, it has a lot to do with atheist cos they use the theory to counter any claims that the origin of man is based on the biblical creation account

There are uneducated people that are atheists just because they were raised as atheists and they see no need for a god.

yes but those uneducated people wouldnt have better explanation on the origin of man. or would they?

As for the meanings of faith, you are talking nonsense again. There is a difference in being faithful person and having faith in something. We all know what faith means. If you take the first definition, then you are saying that believing that your egg will boil if kept in boiling water on gas is faith. How illogical

This is complete BS. What better explanation can u give about the world or source of life without referring to the theory of evolution/natural selection cos u believe it best explain ur position? or do u believe in biblical creation account?

PAGAN 9JA:


Thank you bro. (btw i said Gods "and" Buddha because of Japanese dual religion and syncretism. .)

usually in the past the Samurai were pro-Buddhist while the common man was more towards traditional Shinto.

What do you think about Wicca? Female Wiccans are crazy about sex! Dont know about their paganism but I'm gussing there something about fertility and mother nature there.

I'm content withmy atheism

logicboy:


What do you think about Wicca? Female Wiccans are crazy about sex! Dont know about their paganism but I'm gussing there something about fertility and mother nature there.

I'm content withmy atheism

that is all oyinbo c.rap. i went to one of their sittings. they were all a bunch of fakes with no real spiritual insight. they were just good @ dressing and make-up and talking in loud voices. they have no tribe and nothing. they wont fit, and are just like a bunch of hippies. .

they are trying to imitate ancient fertility rites, but they dont really know how. that knowledge has largely been lost in europe, though it was widely practiced in the ancient days of the tribes. .

no similarity