tctrills:
■ There is 100% connection. If you don't believe the words of his apostles then you are not his follower.
John 17.20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Kobojunkie:
So, Jesus Christ, the Law and Truth His followers are called to abide and live by, never said any of what you pretend at all?

tctrills:
■ First his apostles said it and that is good enough for we his followers. He wants us to believe the words of his apostles and what he desires, we do.
Secondly Jesus never said the things you pretend. He never said that you don't receive forgiveness through baptism. You made that up completely.
So who do we believe you, a nobody or the apostles?

Kobojunkie:
Again, So, Jesus Christ, the Law and Truth His followers are called to abide and live by, never said any of what you pretend at all?

P.S. Baptism( born-again) is the only way to partake of the Kingdom of God, become set free from slavery to sin and attain holiness which makes forgiveness of sins available to one. So it is right to state that Baptism is for the forgiveness of sins.

tctrills:
■ Jesus Christ never said that baptism does not give forginess of sin. You are the first person saying it. Who do we believe, you or the apostles?
■ Now Jesus Christ taught that those that believe and are baptized would be saved. This should answer your question. Are you clear now?

Kobojunkie:
My response was not a quote of the person of Jesus Christ but more a summarizing of parts of His teachings. According to Him,
● a man must be born-again to enter into the Kingdom of God.
● Only those who are born-again can then go on to be set free from slavery to sin by the Truth of God.
● God does not answer the prayers of the righteous but He answers all of he petitions of those who are Holy and righteous including their requests for forgiveness of sins

Therefore, Baptism(born-again) is the gate way that lead to forgiveness of sins.

2. John 3 vs 1 - 21 is Jesus Christ explaining that they are indeed saved from Death -- the condemnation of sin(not to be confused with sin itself)-- by way of the bonus Eternal life they receive just by signing up to the Kingdom of God. Jesus did not say anything about them being saved from sin. That assumption or leap was instead made by your person.

tctrills:
■ You are not still showing where Jesus Christ said baptism does not give a remission of sin so I assume that's just your personal opinion right?
■ Neither are you saying anything about Mark 16.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Is it not clear that baptism brings about forgiveness of sin?
■ This is what happens when you don't believe the Apostles of Christ. You end up being confused.

Kobojunkie:
1.

Let me get this straight. Are you insinuating that it is OK to add ones own ideas to God's Law where God has not in fact said a thing?
That's exactly the mistake you are making. Christ never said Baptism does not bring about forgiveness. That is your personal opinion.

2. Saved from what? According to Jesus Christ, one who is baptized (born-again) is saved from Death aka the curse of sin(not to be confused with sin itself) - [b]John 3 vs 1 -21 . Why are you desperate to add your own private ideas to God's Law? [/b]
Now you are confused. Saved from sin and saved from the consequences of sin are not different. Again, you are projecting your opinion into the word of God. You believe that God will save those who are baptized but he will not forgive them? Is it even making sense to you?

3. You believe the Apostles yet you think it makes sense to inject your own delusions into God's Law? I bet they are rolling in their graves right now.

rickleye:
Love this topic and was not surprised to see a certain someone here kobo… as usual I disagree with his POV ( 😜) but let’s address your comments.

■ A sinner by my understanding is someone who sins and dwells in that sin. He is someone who doesn’t even realize that he has committed an offence or has erred according to commandments. He might even know but is not making any conscious effort to get out of it or change.
■ Now, and as an example, I have done the altar call ( this is dogma ) just man’s tradition . You can be born again in your living room on a hospital bed. The reason a mog would say step forward is simply an act of faith and in the presence of witnesses that you have decided to be separate . What would happen next is a follow up to make sure you are armed with spiritual resources to strengthen you on your journey of being born again. You will then want to be baptized .
In some cases it could be one shot - you confess your sins and “ here is water “ step in and be a new creation.

alBHAGDADI:

The truth is you may not be genuinely born again, that is why you answer the altar call every now and then. A genuine born again Christian doesn't need to answer altar calls.

Being born again is a one time thing, not something that you do everytime, especially to escape from sin. When your parents gave birth to you, it happened once. Since then, you have not returned to your mother's womb to be born again by her, neither have you ceased being her child because you will always carry her DNA.

Your problem is that you don't understand what being born again means as used by Christians. The moment you believe that Jesus died for your sins to save you, in that instant, you become born again. That means you have experienced a new birth or a second birth. This second birth involves God who gives birth to you just as your mother gave birth to you. Your mother is a flesh, so when she gave birth to you, she gave birth to a flesh. This means you inherited her traits which includes a sinful nature, which is why you always sin. God is a spirit. When he gave birth to you, he gave birth to a spirit. That spirit now lives inside of your flesh. That spirit cannot sin because it inherited the traits of God who can never sin.

1 john 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That is why true Christians believe you can never lose your salvation. Every sin you commit as a Christian is against your flesh and is committed in the flesh not the spirit. When you fornicate, your flesh is involved, not your saved spirit from God. But I ce you are not saved, your spirit suffers from sin as well as your flesh.

So, my friend, accept it that Jesus has saved you for all eternity and has given you eternal life as promised in John 3:6 for believing. Once you believe, your soul is more than 100% guaranteed of heaven and nothing can ever prevent you from that destination. However, if you sin, your flesh will be punished. For example, stealing is a sin. If you get caught stealing, you could go to jail, which is bad. However, when you die, those sins won't be held against your spirit because Jesus has been punished for them already. He has paid the price.

For more, visit my profile; you are likely to see a topic that will guide you properly.

Kobojunkie:
1. They both state that Jesus Christ is The Way to overcoming one's sin debt since He alone can take away one's sins. How? See John 8 vs 31 - 36.

2. You want me to disobey God's very own teaching and commandment?

erniok:
■ Oh!!!! Now jesus can take away one's sin. Just make up your mind already.

Kobojunkie:
i see you haven't been paying attention at all as you seem here to argue for the sake of arguing.

litigator:
This is one area of our Biblical journey we often shy away from talking about.

I am certain I am not alone in this regard.

How does it feel if at 9. am on a Sunday morning, I come out for an altar call after a powerful heart-shattering and guilt-provoking sermon, give my life to Christ; I am prayed for and declare born again, but I unconsciously commit a sin on my way back home?

And with that guilt, I go back to sin full time like it was before the alter call?

I guess I am not alone in this regard. I have attended church services countless times and listened to sermons and teachings that I can't recollect, and at the end of such endeavour, I obey the alter call one minute, and the next minute, I am back to fornicating. This is one thing that has kept a lot of people out of this spiritual journey.

Even Pastors are not immune to sin, as some have found themselves committing sin at one point or the other. I guess Apostle Paul suffered same in the Bible. And this brings me to my question.


Does being again make you immune to sin, and is it a vaccine against sinning?

Is it that if I sin, it will no longer count against me because I have Grace?

Or is it a merry-go-round of sinning and asking for forgiveness shortly afterwards until we get better at not sinning anymore?

And if the latter is the case, why do churches hate and guilt-shame members when they sin but defend pastors when they do the same?

litigator:
This is one area of our Biblical journey we often shy away from talking about.

I am certain I am not alone in this regard.

How does it feel if at 9. am on a Sunday morning, I come out for an altar call after a powerful heart-shattering and guilt-provoking sermon, give my life to Christ; I am prayed for and declare born again, but I unconsciously commit a sin on my way back home?

And with that guilt, I go back to sin full time like it was before the alter call?

I guess I am not alone in this regard. I have attended church services countless times and listened to sermons and teachings that I can't recollect, and at the end of such endeavour, I obey the alter call one minute, and the next minute, I am back to fornicating. This is one thing that has kept a lot of people out of this spiritual journey.

Even Pastors are not immune to sin, as some have found themselves committing sin at one point or the other. I guess Apostle Paul suffered same in the Bible. And this brings me to my question.


Does being again make you immune to sin, and is it a vaccine against sinning?

Is it that if I sin, it will no longer count against me because I have Grace?

Or is it a merry-go-round of sinning and asking for forgiveness shortly afterwards until we get better at not sinning anymore?

And if the latter is the case, why do churches hate and guilt-shame members when they sin but defend pastors when they do the same?

erniok:

I give up. I guess you need to re-read your earlier posts. Seems you belong to JW sect.

litigator:
This is one area of our Biblical journey we often shy away from talking about.

I am certain I am not alone in this regard.

How does it feel if at 9. am on a Sunday morning, I come out for an altar call after a powerful heart-shattering and guilt-provoking sermon, give my life to Christ; I am prayed for and declare born again, but I unconsciously commit a sin on my way back home?

And with that guilt, I go back to sin full time like it was before the alter call?

I guess I am not alone in this regard. I have attended church services countless times and listened to sermons and teachings that I can't recollect, and at the end of such endeavour, I obey the alter call one minute, and the next minute, I am back to fornicating. This is one thing that has kept a lot of people out of this spiritual journey.

Even Pastors are not immune to sin, as some have found themselves committing sin at one point or the other. I guess Apostle Paul suffered same in the Bible. And this brings me to my question.


Does being again make you immune to sin, and is it a vaccine against sinning?

Is it that if I sin, it will no longer count against me because I have Grace?

Or is it a merry-go-round of sinning and asking for forgiveness shortly afterwards until we get better at not sinning anymore?

And if the latter is the case, why do churches hate and guilt-shame members when they sin but defend pastors when they do the same?

Kobojunkie:
You are not aware of where in Scripture Jesus Christ Himself spoke of being born-again, of obeying His teachings and commandments, of Eternal Life?

litigator:



Your questions 2 and 4 are confusing. I am tempted to think you are a witness. (JW).

Can you juxtapose 2 with the concept of forgiveness of sins?

I will be grateful if you can relate it t your point 4. And my question is, how do you explain the concept of sin?

Cos, if you focus on the sin of the Bible alone, then marrying more than one wife might be considered a sin. Whereas, in Islam or some Western society, it is not.

Are you saying such a person will go to hell?

By my beliefs, I do not think God is affiliated with any religion, and the concept of sin is what your heart defines as one. If God is within you, He will let you know when you sin or are about to sin and rebuke you.

Perhaps I am having a hard time balancing my beliefs as an Omnist with the teachings of the Bible, and this is where I need your expertise.

bUT WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Start attending Church and ask questions from your pastor; he will guide you.

alBHAGDADI:

The truth is you may not be genuinely born again, that is why you answer the altar call every now and then. A genuine born again Christian doesn't need to answer altar calls.

Being born again is a one time thing, not something that you do everytime, especially to escape from sin. When your parents gave birth to you, it happened once. Since then, you have not returned to your mother's womb to be born again by her, neither have you ceased being her child because you will always carry her DNA.

Your problem is that you don't understand what being born again means as used by Christians. The moment you believe that Jesus died for your sins to save you, in that instant, you become born again. That means you have experienced a new birth or a second birth. This second birth involves God who gives birth to you just as your mother gave birth to you. Your mother is a flesh, so when she gave birth to you, she gave birth to a flesh. This means you inherited her traits which includes a sinful nature, which is why you always sin. God is a spirit. When he gave birth to you, he gave birth to a spirit. That spirit now lives inside of your flesh. That spirit cannot sin because it inherited the traits of God who can never sin.

1 john 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That is why true Christians believe you can never lose your salvation. Every sin you commit as a Christian is against your flesh and is committed in the flesh not the spirit. When you fornicate, your flesh is involved, not your saved spirit from God. But I ce you are not saved, your spirit suffers from sin as well as your flesh.

So, my friend, accept it that Jesus has saved you for all eternity and has given you eternal life as promised in John 3:6 for believing. Once you believe, your soul is more than 100% guaranteed of heaven and nothing can ever prevent you from that destination. However, if you sin, your flesh will be punished. For example, stealing is a sin. If you get caught stealing, you could go to jail, which is bad. However, when you die, those sins won't be held against your spirit because Jesus has been punished for them already. He has paid the price.

For more, visit my profile; you are likely to see a topic that will guide you properly.

OBTOREPA:

No sir/ ma for it is written " Shall we continue in sin sin while the grace may abound?
God forbids, how can we who are dead to sin ,sin there after ?".
2 Cor. 5:17. Only said" If any man be in christ,he is a new creature, old things are passed away and behold all things are becomes new"

Kobojunkie:
1. Do you know why in the Old Law of Moses , sinners were required to bring sin/guilt offerings to God in order to be absolved of their sins? My guess is God didn't want them jumping to this same ridiculous conclusion that you here which is pretending God is moved by your so-called penitent heart when it comes to whether you are a sinner or not.

A sinner is an unrighteous individual who commits sin. If does not mater whether said person is actively sinning or does so occasionally. Soon as the person is unholy, that person is a sinner - John 8 vs 31 - 38.

2. What you describe is still nothing but dogma.