Pilgrim.1

could you show me even a single verse of the Bible that supported the observance of sunday without conjecturing and suggestions?

God bless,

@dreamnaira,

Yep, I could do that - as soon as you find what verse in the Bible that specifically asks Christians to observe the seventh-day sabbath without conjecturing and suggestions.

Regards.

@DreamNaira, so, if you were around when Jesus Christ performed Miracles on the Sabbath day, what would have been your reaction? Read this Chapter. Matthew 12: 1-21.


Bless you.

Pilgrim.1

you talk much about new covenant, could you show me in the new conenant where  it was stipulated that the seventh day sabbath had been changed from sarturday to sunday? I will need answer without conjecturing or suggestions of what you suppose should be.

If you have no answer as it's clear that the change was of human origin, not an order from God. In THE FAITH OF OUR FATHERS, THE CATHOLIC CARDINAL GIBBONS placed the issue beyond debate when he said ''you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of sunday. The scriptures enforce the religious observance of sarturday, a day we never sanctify.''

It's obvious that protestant churchs that observe sunday have no Bible support, only catholic that wrought the change could defend it by its traditions.
so in a matter regarding the change of the sabbath , instead of one putting tegether passages that has nothing to say about the change, silent is golden.

And to correct you on notion the LORD'S DAY mentioned by John the revelator, it's indisputable that the LORD'S DAY refered by John was not sunday but sarturday.
Read {Ex 20:10} "for the seventh day is the sabbabth of the LORD thy GOD."
Jesus claimed to be the LORD OF THE EVEN OF THE SABBATH {Mtt 12:8}
Jesus did go to the synagogue as his customs was [Luk 4:16}
The sabbath had never been changed when John saw his vision until later in MAR 7, 321 AD. John's vision was before AD100.
Pual the last apostle kept the sabbath

God bless

Ndipe

The chapter your refering me to has it any thing to say about the change of the sabbath?
The chapter you re refering to is talking of doing good on the sabbath day, not that you will see you neighbour dying yuo say because today is sabbath for that will not help him/her.

Well, the pharisees challenged Jesus Christ for His performance of miracles on Sabbath day, stating that it was a day set aside for rest. Now, I have shown you the Biblical verse  (Col 2:14-16) which talks about the irrelevancy of the Sabbath day, and you are still harping on it. Tell me, if the Holy Bible does not judge me for not keeping the Sabbath, then, nobody can judge us non-sabbatarians.

@dreamnaira,

dreamnaira:

Pilgrim.1

you talk much about new covenant, could you show me in the new conenant where it was stipulated that the seventh day sabbath had been changed from sarturday to sunday? I will need answer without conjecturing or suggestions of what you suppose should be.

My dear friend, I was not arguing a "change" of sabbath from the seventh-day to any other day. You have tried to weave this discussion round a question of a verse which you cannot find in the entire Bible - and I offered you to present that same verse yourself. I haven't seen you do so, without conjectures.

Now, it is true that I speak about the new covenant - and I've demonstrated effectively that the seventh-day sabbath was ratified as a law under the OLD covenant. Now, if you're asking that the old covenant be brought into the new covenant, you immediately disregard the essence of the New Testament in order to pursue a vocation under the Old Testament that you haven't been able to defend up until this time.

Several other contributors have provided verses in the NT for you to check out the fact that Christians are not asked to keep a seventh-day sabbath law. I'm surprised that you're rather ignoring such verses and asking for a verse that stipulates that the sabbath was "changed" from the seventh day to another day. Christians who worship on Sunday (or any other day for that matter) are not making a switch over of "sabbaths" - which has been your problem. But just to oblige you as promised, I could show you indeed in the New Testament that God Himself was the One who spoke of another day! Here it is:


Hebrews 4

(3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath,
if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

(4) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day
from all his works.

(5) And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

(6) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached
entered not in because of unbelief:

(7) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said,
To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

(8 ) For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

(9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.


There are three things I'd like you to notice there:

(a) the seventh day was mentioned (vs. 4)

(b) but the people under the old covenant missed the true rest (vs. 6)

(c) even so, God speaks of "a certain day" and "ANOTHER DAY" (vs. 7 & 8 )


Do you see that even in the NT, God had set aside (or "limiteth" a day DIFFERENT from the seventh day?!? For if God is still bending our necks to the seventh day, WHY would He afterwards have spoken of setting aside, or designating, or limiting a "certain day" (called "today" - vs. 7) and "another day" (vs. 8 )? I wonder that seventh-day sabbatarians often miss that point when they ask for a "change" of sabbath from seventh day to Sunday!

@dreamnaira,

dreamnaira:

If you have no answer as it's clear that the change was of human origin, not an order from God. In THE FAITH OF OUR FATHERS, THE CATHOLIC CARDINAL GIBBONS placed the issue beyond debate when he said ''you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of sunday. The scriptures enforce the religious observance of sarturday, a day we never sanctify.''

First, you may have driven a wedge already in your assuming that I had no answers. Why didn't you try to be patient? You asked if I had a verse for my persuasion; I answered that as sson as you proffered one for yours, then I'd oblige you - which I have done just above. Now, do you have a clear verse without conjecture commanding Christians to keep a seventh-day sabbath - with penalty of death if they do not so?

Second, your problem is that you're trying to make this a matter of "changing" a sabbath day law between Saturday and Sunday. I'm sorry, but there is a heavy weight of evidence against that idea to the effect that Christians do not find the true rest on a "Saturday" - but rather in a PERSON! Christ is the true rest, and the Bible clearly demonstrates that Christians who have believed have come into the reality of that rest! Here:

Colossians 2:16 & 17
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ."

Hebrews 4:3
"For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in
my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from
the foundation of the world."

Two things yet again:

(a) the sabbath days of the Sinaitic Law were merely shadows,
and the reality is CHRIST (Col.2:17)

(b) those who have believed in Christ have entered into the real rest
which God intended (Heb. 4:3)

This is why I offered earlier that the true rest is not in observing any day; but rather, it is in the Person of Christ that the true rest for the soul is found (cf. Matt. 11:28-39). God isn't calling us to the observance of a "day" - for anyone still arguing for a Saturday is effectively disregarding the FACT that God Himself has "limiteth" another day! Today, if we hear HIS voice, we ought not to harded our hearts - for above the fastidious observance of any day, we find our salvation and rest in a day called "TODAY".

dreamnaira:

It's obvious that protestant churchs that observe sunday have no Bible support, only catholic that wrought the change could defend it by its traditions.

There again - this is not about a "change" of Saturday to Sunday; rather, it is about finding true rest for the soul!

Even so, those who are seventh-day sabbatarians have no Biblical basis for a New Testament commandment from God to observe Saturday! None whatsoever. For them to keep the tradition of a seventh-day sabbath observance, they would simply have to go back to the Sinaitic Law and clinge to verses where the commandment was given. The point is that, when they do so, they cringe from the real import of what the Law says!

The Law stipulates that anyone who is under obligation to keep that sabbath law is also obliged to observe its penal code - which is death on breaking that sabbath by any chance. Such sabbatarians cringe from its penal code, even though their consciences convict them that the WORD is clear that no work at all should be done among the generation of Israel who were given that Law.

Interestingly, I've had debates concerning the sabbath Law when discussing tithes. However, it is quite amazing that some who argue the Law have very little understanding of its real import and scope. The sabbath law indeed allowed for some types of work to be done - but these were mainly as regards Temple worship according to the Levitical priesthood!

There is no problem with anyone wanting to keep a seventh day sabbath. But for such people to argue that others who worship on any different day immediately fall under a Catholic blast, is to betray the fact that such people do NOT even understand the sabbath law that they argue about!

dreamnaira:

so in a matter regarding the change of the sabbath , instead of one putting tegether passages that has nothing to say about the change, silent is golden.

Rather than assuming there's nothing to say on the subject in the NT, it would indeed have been golden to have a heart to consider that you might be gravely mistaken.

dreamnaira:

And to correct you on notion the LORD'S DAY mentioned by John the revelator, it's indisputable that the LORD'S DAY refered by John was not sunday but sarturday.
Read {Ex 20:10} "for the seventh day is the sabbabth of the LORD thy GOD."
Jesus claimed to be the LORD OF THE EVEN OF THE SABBATH {Mtt 12:8}
Jesus did go to the synagogue as his customs was [Luk 4:16}
The sabbath had never been changed when John saw his vision until later in MAR 7, 321 AD. John's vision was before AD100.
Pual the last apostle kept the sabbath

Lol. . . a few things I should remind you of:

(a) the Lord's day does not translate into "Saturday" on assumption that Exodus 20:10 makes the seventh day a sabbath of the LORD. Exodus 12:16 also marks out the first day of the week to have been as important as the seventh day in the religious calendar of the Jews. But when John speaks of the Lord's Day in Revelation 1:10, he was not speaking of his having been on Patmos on the seventh day sabbath - so I don't see how that could now be turned around to force-fit the idea based on Exodus 20:10.

All the same, cheers.

There are categories of  people in christendom; catholics and protestants. Is either your catholic or protestant as there is no double standing. But there still exist protestant catholics. Yes you may ask me what i mean by protestant-catholics, this group atr catholic though they answered protestant. They could be regarded as extended catholic church though they are hypocritical in the sense that they upheld some of the traditions of the mother chuech which inturn they say they are protesting against.

Catholic church is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH {Rev 17:5}
If catholic is the mother it must have a child oe children? It children are those churchs that upholh some the practice and traditions of the mother church while claiming independent from catholic the mother church.
The examples some of those traditions which you can not find any Bible supports are; CHRISTMAS, EASTER, SUNDAY OBVERSANCE. Those protestant church that adopted all these tradition of catholic church are still catholics but just that they are children concieved out of adultry and go after the woredom of their mother church been drunk in the wine of her fornication.

The second sect of protestant is the one that has not soil itself with any of the indulgance of the woredom woman {catholic church} it protest is stern rebulk.


The two sect would be exposed at the climax of the Great Controversy b/w christ and satan. When is either you catholic or face persecution

Hi Echerem@,

Echerem@:

The second sect of protestant is the one that has not soil itself with any of the indulgance of the woredom woman {catholic church} it protest is stern rebulk.

The problem with the "second sect of protestant" is that she only makes fantastic claims for herself while accusing others with unfounded theories. She may keep herself from SUNDAY, but she's known to have soiled herself with darker and thicker grease and finds it ever difficult to proffer answers when queried for her own indulgences.

Making silly accusative remarks about others when you have not been able to provide clear Biblical answers in defence of your own practices is not the best way to enter a discussion.

Cheers.

Pilgrim.1

  I love your bordness and understood why it seem we couldn't fathom out anything yet.
It's a seed that will take God's Grace to germinate. I pray that God almighty will water His seed.

But i think it will be important for me to establish a new thread which the topic will be on prophecy of Daniel and Revelation maybe that we help us more to understand the true worship which will be accepted by God.

Remain bless till then

@dreamnaira,

I very much appreciate our discussion, and I trust that your foresight to offer a new thread on the prophetic books would be most welcome.

Many blessings.

Pilgrim.1

lest i forget, check out this site www.666man.net as i may not ve the whole time for us in this forum to discusss those prophetic Books {apocalyptic books] in detail because of my limited time and not been fast wth my keyboard.

But let me beg this: you must humble your heart if you must understand those prophecies and if it must mean anything to you.

@dreamnaira,

Thank you for that link - I've taken some time to look at the articles posted there. Some good stuff; otherwise a whole lot do not seem to tessellate with Biblical prophecies. All the same, I've tried to be as simple in reading them; and if there's anything you'd like to point out, I'm open to consider them.

Cheers.