@ascony

If you think God is nature and universe, or the sum of existence, then God is a wrong term to use, because its a term lost to religion and have a religious meaning and value.

Also, you have been clear that you dont understand God, yet you say a lot about his intentions. However, do you believe HE is life?

As an atheist, what I really found hard to understand was how an all powerful supreme God would create a world like this with all the evil, injustice and lack of order in it. So the problem of the atheist is not really that God did not create, the real problem is that God did not do a good work; that his best wasn't good enough. I mean, if God is so powerful then why didn't God create a perfect world?
But think about it, what if this is the best that God can do? Maybe God is not actually omnipotent as exaggerated? If that be the case, are we then supposed to abandon God rather than accepting that this life and everything we see in it is the best that God can offer? Seeing then how we can work together with God to make things better?

Religion to me is nothing but a bunch of groups trying to make sense of God; trying to understand God's nature, what it wants and how it works, well some religion may have done a good job in doing that and some still far behind, who really knows?

Notice that I always try to show my uncertainty in everything I say. I never claim to have answers cos am still on this journey of discovery. My position is not really that there is a God with certainty, my point is that, there has to be a God and all am doing is trying to make sense of that God. 'Maybe someday when I 'find' God, I will bring him/her/it here on NL for a proper introduction and interview.

Ascony:

As an atheist, what I really found hard to understand was how an all powerful supreme God would create a world like this with all the evil, injustice and lack of order in it. So the problem of the atheist is not really that God did not create, the real problem is that God did not do a good work; that his best wasn't good enough. I mean, if God is so powerful then why didn't God create a perfect world?
But think about it, what if this is the best that God can do? Maybe God is not actually omnipotent as exaggerated? If that be the case, are we then supposed to abandon God rather than accepting that this life and everything we see in it is the best that God can offer? Seeing then how we can work together with God to make things better?

Religion to me is nothing but a bunch of groups trying to make sense of God; trying to understand God's nature, what it wants and how it works, well some religion may have done a good job in doing that and some still far behind, who really knows?

Notice that I always try to show my uncertainty in everything I say. I never claim to have answers cos am still on this journey of discovery. My position is not really that there is a God with certainty, my point is that, there has to be a God and all am doing is trying to make sense of that God. 'Maybe someday when I 'find' God, I will bring him/her/it here on NL for a proper introduction and interview.

Interesting, I have given up on the God idea because its something you just can never know IMO. . .Is there a creator or are there creators of the universe? Its very possible, how can a person know? No evidence to show that the creators/creators of the universe have anything with the Gods that men created and worship. . . .All I know is that the Gods that men worship are all a creation of men, There is NO Allah God, NO Jesus God, NO Hindu Gods, all these are a creation of ancient men and their various superstitions. . .I can see you are now in the game of creating your own God according to your thoughts and giving it what ever attributes you feel and imagine, that's something all the ancient God creators did. . .If believing in what ever concept or model of God will make you happy and give you peace then ride on and keep such beliefs. . . .

@ascony

I disagree with you, that this is the best God can do. Its rather a "perfect creation" is a necessity to prove a perfect designer. However for the lack of that, Nature evidentially is the perfect candidate as the watchmaker - blind watchmaker - Nature provides a simpler explanation, whereas God who is himself far complex than the supposed creation and is a problem rather than a solution.
NATURe could be said to be "God" - merely meaning a designer -

@ascony I can relate to you somewhat. . .

I do not doubt in the existence of God, my doubt lays mostly with the many fraternities that try and depict God or claim ownership over this Being.
I'm in limbo currently because I fear to follow a wrong path. However in my confusion I cannot doubt there is a God. The very fact that there are so many makes me to believe that there is because there has to be an original in order for a counterfeit to exist.

What I'm wrestling with currently is how to make a connection with the original God in the midst of so many false depictions. I try not to comprehend God via a rational mind even though sometimes I fail. I used to measure God using a worldly barometer. I wanted him to prove his power through the things I could see. However I learnt that the things I cannot see are by far more real than the things which I see. I feel as if I'm trapped in this literal maze when I could be actually understanding through my mind's eye or spiritual antennae and not being dependent on physical imagery.

However whenever I am confronted with the thought of this Being my mind automatically hovers on the God that I have been reared to believe all my life - The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My mind doesn't capture the Hindu, Muslim, Pagan etc god(s) when the subject is brought up. . .so I feel I have been conditioned or I'm not free/unbiased in my thoughts. Yet in order for anyone to accept or reject any concept they must first understand it. I've read the bible but I still do not understand and I believe depending on our abilities (i.e. I am an artist) that is how we interpret certain dogmas.

I'd rather I sought knowledge and failed than never bothering to seek for fear it was all a mirage.

From time immemorial till today, a huge majority of humans have always believed in some form of God or supreme authority or watever u may choose to call it. The buzz is just way too much for us to simply rule out the possibilty of its existence.  you can even call it nature if that makes u more comfortable, nature is the sum of everthing that exists both seen and unseen abi? nature can also  act in ways that defy human explanation init?

"However whenever I am confronted with the thought of this Being my mind automatically hovers on the God that I have been reared to believe all my life - The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My mind doesn't capture the Hindu, Muslim, Pagan etc god(s) when the subject is brought up. . .so I feel I have been conditioned or I'm not free/ unbiased in my thoughts."
Posted by: emofine

i can relate with u there bro. but u can't help it cos the hindu man can also not help but be filled with the mental image of the hindu idea of God. i always bring myself to the understanding that a God is rather too big to be bottled up in a particular religion

@emofine

Almost everyone has been in your shoes. Doubt. Its powerful and revealing. I think what causes your "dis"focus is you are placing preconditions on your rational self which shouldnt be. If God actually exists, doubt and reason will only confirm HIM.
@ascony
does the "God" u suggest have any bearing with the religious Gods?

i think religion is doing a good job trying to understand God. yet one thing they(religions) all have in common is that they all acknowledge its existence. its one thing to acknowledge this "supreme authority", but its another thing to comprehend the way it operates

@mazaje. hahaha.lol u think am on the root to creating my own God? first of all IMO i dnt think any religion created God, rather i think wat they are all trying to do is to understand God with the best of their abilities. Well honestly i dnt mind if this journey leads me to create my own religion  and i also dnt mind clinging to any of the already existing religions if i find it necessary. My mission is God.

If you want to find the true creator, then cling on to no religion. Freedom of your mind is your most valuable asset in finding the creator within you. Cling to any religious dogma and you lose the plot immediately. Strong and free counseling, that.

Ascony:

well honestly i dnt mind if this journey leads me to create my own religion and i also dnt mind clinging to any of the already existing religions. my mission is God.

Wrong, ascony. Religion is not trying to understand God. It is trying to label it, bottle it and OWN it. And it has shed so much blood of the innocents(and not so innocents as well) over many centuries trying to do just that.

Ascony:

i think religion is doing a good job trying to understand God. yet one thing they(religions) all have in common is that they all acknowledge its existence. its one thing to acknowledge this "supreme authority", but its another thing to comprehend the way it operates

.

@ jenwitemi. well its ur opinion to think contary to my notion that religion is trying to understand God. also if u say i shouldn't cling to any religion, what if for instance any particular religion is able to reveal God to me in a provable way. should i adopt pride and go ahead to ignore that religion?

Ascony:

@mazaje. hahaha.lol u think am on the root to creating my own God? first of all IMO i dnt think any religion created God, rather i think wat they are all trying to do is to understand God with the best of their abilities. Well honestly i dnt mind if this journey leads me to create my own religion  and i also dnt mind clinging to any of the already existing religions if i find it necessary. My mission is God. 

You keep referring to the the creator of the universe assuming it has a creator is a single entity, how did you come to that conclusion?. . . .There might be multiple universe, and the universe if created could be created by many many entities. . . .NO body knows every body is JUST guessing. . . .The problem is that religion deludes people with is FALSE stories and narrative into thinking that they alone have an idea of what is right about the creator of the universe when the adherents are only adhering to the imaginations, concepts, culture and way of life of the founders of their various religions. . .Religions are very misleading and all of them are FALSE , they are nothing but a creation of men. . Nothing more. . .

Jenwitemi:

Wrong, ascony. Religion is not trying to understand God. It is trying to label it, bottle it and OWN it. And it has shed so much blood of the innocents(and not so innocents as well) over many centuries trying to do just that,

Very true words here. . . .

Ascony:

@ jenwitemi. well its your opinion to think contary to my notion that religion is trying to understand God. also if u say i shouldn't cling to any religion, what if for instance any particular religion is able to reveal God to me in a provable way. should i adopt pride and go ahead to ignore that religion?

Gods of all religions do not exist. . .They can not exist independent of the minds of their adherents. . .No God can be shown to exist independent of human stories, mythology, imaginations, conception, societal acceptance, and human influence. . . .No religion is trying to understand anything, all religions claim their God to be the only true God, but it has been shown that all Gods of man made religions are man made. . . Allah, Yahweh, Jesus, Shiva, Zeus etc all these Gods are simply a creation of men, a simple study of their history will reveal that to you. . .For example there was no God called Yahweh 20,000 years ago, the God came into existence when the ancient Jews brought up that God concept. . . .The Allah of Islam came into existence like 1600 years ago it only came into existence when Mohammed and his cronies invented that God concept. . . . 10,000 years ago the only God in Egypt was the sun God Ra. . .Religions have some truths when it comes to some aspect of morality, but any other claim they make as regards to the origin of the universe or what happens after one dies is False and a big lie. . .

^^

You are still swimming in the vast ocean of delusion, well if it makes you happy , I got no issues with it

Guys let me give you something to think about. Let say God appeared to a stone aged man and revealed to him that he is God and gives him instructions on how to serve him. And thousands of years later the same God reveals himself to Albert Einstein the same way he did the stone age man, do you think they will see God the same way Or rather would these two men of different time and mind have similar concept of God?

Ascony, world religions are not interested in revealing your creator to you because that would only empower you, something which they do not want. World religions seek to OWN you by owning and boxing your mind and soul into their little dogmatic BOX. And since they cannot box somebody who is empowered in, they first dis-empower you by locking you in a religious dogmatic box before they start feeding fat off your substance, your essence(faith in dogma and financial contributions through tithes). If you feel that you have to cling unto a religion to know GOD, then i truly pity you because i know exactly where you'll end up and what you'll end up as(see bigot frosbel). Not pretty.

If you want to keep your spiritual freedom, then steer clear of religions and their doctrines. A word is enough for the wise.

Ascony:

@ jenwitemi. well its your opinion to think contary to my notion that religion is trying to understand God. also if u say i shouldn't cling to any religion, what if for instance any particular religion is able to reveal God to me in a provable way. should i adopt pride and go ahead to ignore that religion?

frosbel:

^^

You are still swimming in the vast ocean of delusion, well if it makes you happy , I got no issues with it

You believe in the writings, superstitions, mythology and delusions of UNKNOWN men, yet you have the audacity to call some one deluded. . . . . . . You are the one that believes in PLAIN lies that have no evidence not me. . .

U re right my sis

From my understanding of the scripture, I would say God is interested in religion and the only religion He is interested in is the Gospel which he brought to us through His Son jesus christ. Everyother religion we see this days are myth to create confussion and to reduce the numbers of God lovers, the devil is actively working to win as many people with himself to hell, he knows he is destined to be in hell he doesnt want to go there alone he wants as much as many as he could deceive to believe in religions that are not recognised by Elohim, God is not a God of confussion he wouldnt approve of different religions and to confuse His children as to not knowing which to choose. He says no one comes to the father except through me (Jesus) and jesus didnt tell us of any other religion that he brought to us other than the Gospel

Sorry, but this is just bigoted hogwash in my view. Nothing more to add to that.

dalebutt1:

From my understanding of the scripture, I would say God is interested in religion and the only religion He is interested in is the Gospel which he brought to us through His Son jesus christ. Everyother religion we see this days are myth to create confussion and to reduce the numbers of God lovers, the devil is actively working to win as many people with himself to hell, he knows he is destined to be in hell he doesnt want to go there alone he wants as much as many as he could deceive to believe in religions that are not recognised by Elohim, God is not a God of confussion he wouldnt approve of different religions and to confuse His children as to not knowing which to choose. He says no one comes to the father except through me (Jesus) and jesus didnt tell us of any other religion that he brought to us other than the Gospel

@ jenwitemi, maybe you would make more sense as to why is hogwash and bigoted. you havent said anything to disprove it yet its hogwash. you do not have to be rude to peoples comment it doesnt make you any smarter it would only make a more smater person look at you asif you were lacking in knowledge

Ha ha ha. typical "my religion is better than others" syndrome mixed with " the devil did" syndrome. Hogwash indeed. What else is new?
The people that time forgot.

^^^

Rather have faith than fallacy.

There is nothing to be said here, brethren. Anyone who has spent a while on this forum would quickly know why your post is total hogwash bigotry, because bigoted posts(like yours) are very easy to spot. We've debated and debunked this "my religion is the only true religion" claptrap that you religionists come up with on here on daily basis, so no need for any repeat.

Your claim that GOD is interested in religion and that religion is YOUR religion only. That is nothing but utter bigotry. Can you prove it beyond any reasonable doubt that the CREATOR of the universe is interested only in your christianity? I know that you will fail to prove anything conclusively but humor me, please.

dalebutt1:

@ jenwitemi, maybe you would make more sense as to why is hogwash and bigoted. you havent said anything to disprove it yet its hogwash. you do not have to be rude to peoples comment it doesnt make you any smarter it would only make a more smater person look at you asif you were lacking in knowledge

You dey mind am?

plaetton:

Ha ha ha. typical "my religion is better than others" syndrome mixed with " the devil did" syndrome. Hogwash indeed. What else is new?
The people that time forgot.

dalebutt1:

From my understanding of the scripture, I would say God is interested in religion and the only religion He is interested in is the Gospel which he brought to us through His Son jesus christ. Everyother religion we see this days are myth to create confussion and to reduce the numbers of God lovers, the devil is actively working to win as many people with himself to hell, he knows he is destined to be in hell he doesnt want to go there alone he wants as much as many as he could deceive to believe in religions that are not recognised by Elohim, God is not a God of confussion he wouldnt approve of different religions and to confuse His children as to not knowing which to choose. He says no one comes to the father except through me (Jesus) and jesus didnt tell us of any other religion that he brought to us other than the Gospel

Ha ha ha. typical "my religion is better than others" syndrome mixed with " the devil did it" syndrome- the source of every conflict in human history. Hogwash indeed. What else is new?
Typical ailment for the  people that time forgot.

Ascony, the right term that describes your belief is Deism. One that only believes God exist but doesnt believe in Organized Religion. I used to be one before i became Agnostic.

plaetton:

Ha ha ha. typical "my religion is better than others" syndrome mixed with " the devil did it" syndrome- the source of every conflict in human history. Hogwash indeed. What else is new?
Typical ailment for the  people that time forgot.

But what do you have to offer them

Nothing but disjointed theories with no concrete proof or evidence, illogical gibberish from the white man and his philosophies.

I am beginning to think that there is a pattern to your stance on this most important issue and there has to be a cause, this cause cannot be of an intellectual nature .

It is most certainly a product of some certain mishap or grievance or abnormal lifestyle.

It is a proven fact that those who love their dark deeds despise the light.