I have spent some time debating some Christians and at least a Muslim on Nairaland. Most of them, I believe, are nice people but when it comes to their religious beliefs, they are almost impenetrable to REASON, LOGIC, RATIONAL THINKING and COMMON SENSE.


You can show a Christian/Muslim the truth and facts over and over and over again and they still won’t get it. I have had the experience of having a Christian repeat something dogmatically, e.g. the absurd idea that morality depends and can only be measured by an objective source like Bible, which was easily disprovable because the so-called holy book contains lots of “un-holy” wickedness/immoralities, irreconcilable contradictions and absurd, irrational claims. I disproved that claim and any reasonable person would have learned and adjusted their views. Not these religious folks! They just keep posting the same tired, easily disproved arguments over and over again in spite of the fact that they have been soundly refuted. Why is this so?

I have done some research and came up with two reasons: Brainwashing and Fear.

[size=17pt]BRAINWASHING[/size]
The Christian and Islamic religions use several known brainwashing techniques to gain and then keep converts. Here is an example: Have you ever been to a church service where you sing the same song over and over and over again? I have, from childhood, just like many others. What the vast majority of church members do not know is that this is a subtle but efficient brainwashing technique. The repetition of the song breaks down mental barriers and puts people in an extremely suggestible state. Observe any praise & worship service / hymn songs or pay attention next time you are in a church service. While in a relaxed, altered state, most people’s defences (and critical thinking skills) are down and what they are taught at that time they will not necessarily think through for themselves. So, while the defences are down, the brainwashing and indoctrination takes place.


Also, our Muslim brothers are hardboiled and trained from childhood to memorise a very large amount of Quranic verses, they are to pray 5 times every day repeating the same thing over and over. I want to give you an experiment. If you chant la illa illa Allah, Muhammad rasull lah (meaning there is no god but Allah, Mohammed is his messenger) if you do this repeatedly like 100 times each day for 3 months, you will start believing with all your heart that there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger.


This is what effective brainwashing techniques do to human brain. It makes a man sees nothing wrong with killing a fellow human being and triumphantly saying afterwards “allahu akbar” (Allah is great) or makes another man sees absolutely nothing wrong with the Hell doctrine of endlessly torturing a living human being for trillions of years in the most agonizing excruciating pain possible.


[size=17pt]FEAR[/size]

FEAR is another tactic that the religion uses and, unfortunately, they use it well. Christians are taught that the Bible is the “word of God” and that they have the only truth. Anything that disagrees with the Bible and/or their denomination’s interpretation of the Bible is a deception. For example, all other religions are a deception. The scientific theory of biological evolution is a deception. If it doesn’t agree with the Bible, it is a demonic deception designed to keep us from believing the Bible and therefore being “saved”. According to the Church, you must believe their way or you have displeased God and are going to Hell forever to be tormented for eternity with no hope of reprieve. The Hell doctrine is nothing more than a heinously cruel fear tactic that has been used successfully for centuries. It should be obvious that the concepts of a Loving God and an eternal Hell are diametrically opposed ideas. With this kind of pressure and these kinds of fear tactics, is it any wonder that Christians don’t think for themselves?


Another side note to this is that hell doctrine is not particularly restricted to Christianity alone; in fact it didn’t start with Christianity. It was an amalgamation of Zoroastrian religion’s hell and Greek mythologies’ Hades. Later Islam copied them and add a more graphic and horrific description of the torture that unbelievers in their hell will go through. This is a very great mind control tool that will work for any religion, if people can believe that religion with all their heart.


When my Christian friends start threatening me with hell, I normally laugh and reply that the way a Muslim hell does not scare him is exactly the same way his own religion’s hell does not scare me, since millions of Muslims sincerely believed with all their heart that he is going to hell too.

I have learnt that the best thing to do regarding my religious friends is to realize that, while they are well-meaning in their beliefs, they have been brainwashed from their childhood. Brainwashed people cannot see the truth that is right before their eyes and they will deny facts that do not agree with their beliefs. Brainwashing combined with fear tactics causes a disconnection in the mind of the religious folks between demonstrable reality and religious fantasy. Reality is filtered out in favour of the religious dogma/fantasy.

It is very important to understand that religion’s extreme practice is harmful and destructive (as we can see with boko haram issue) and that it is not by any means a harmless belief system. Any institution that employs brainwashing techniques and fear tactics to win and keep followers cannot be considered to be a harmless organization or one which deserves respect.

Recovery from life-long brainwashing and the religious fear tactics absolutely is possible!!!

Nairaland, as well as the offline real world, contains many Atheists, Agnostics and Free-thinkers as well as liberal Muslims and Christians who interpret their religion with a healthy dose of REASON, LOGIC, RATIONALITY, COMMON SENSE and adjust their beliefs in the light of OBJECTIVE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCES and SECULAR HUMANIST MORALITY.


These honourable people are those who woke up or are waking up from their religious delusion and are beginning to step into the real world outside the bubble of superstitious delusions.

Cyrexx, you are on point.

I have been aware of their subtle tactics since like 16

Excellent analysis up there

Another tactics they use is Promise of Salvation....which is the reason why a lot of religionists do deeds that contradicts their religions and yet go back and pray for forgiveness....unlike our traditional belief systems where law of karma is instantaneous.

They just keep posting the same tired, easily disproved arguments
over and over again in spite of the fact that they have been soundly
refuted. Why is this so?

Bro! It's called dogmatism. It is so because their mind have been conditioned for a long time to accept the doctrines and dogmas of their monotheistic religions as the ONLY truth.

I always feel quite unhappy whenever my friends refer to Jesus or Allah in most day to day talks of life.... and in my mind I'm always like 'can't they realise they are black and not semites'

Christians like to brainwash early



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNvnLFgH5BU

Muslim brainwashing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3m3t87-dk

ghostofsparta: Cyrexx, you are on point.

I have been aware of their subtle tactics since like 16

Excellent analysis up there

Another tactics they use is Promise of Salvation....which is the reason why a lot of religionists do deeds that contradicts their religions and yet go back and pray for forgiveness.

thanks bro,
your observation is correct.
they will do wickedness and later pray for forgiveness or give a big offering in church and later think that they still have their "salvation" and hope of "eternal paradise"
hypocritical bunch.

i dont think that a god that it followers can deceive with expensive offering is worth being call a god. Even when they do what is bad they go for offering. (Bribe)

Actually, the truth is that religion is guilty big time, in there involvement in the trouble in human history.
I thing god should operate at a very high frequency higher than human's. Frequency.

Eternal torment is absurd.
Not when God says he is love. And not when the person involve are not the originator of the weakness imperfection, they just inherited it.

I wonder what any of my child will do that will make me roast even one of his hand on a burner, i mean for just some minute not to talk of eternity.
Well for me, i will say, its good that not all religion that teaches this.
Peace.

MacDaddy01: Muslim brainwashing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg3m3t87-dk

I have watched this video befor and when I did I felt sorry for all black muslims in Africa specially in Yorubaland..I remembered someone who told me after taking time to explain the flaws and deceptions in Islam to a 11 year old muslim somewhere in Oyo, he said the brainwashed boy broke into tears crying in arabic 'blasphemy against the prophet'....he said if that happened in the north, he's done for.

ghostofsparta:

I have watched this video befor and when I did I felt sorry for all black muslims in Africa specially in Yorubaland..I remembered someone who told me after taking time to explain the flaws and deceptions in Islam to a 11 year old muslim somewhere in Oyo, he said the brainwashed boy broke into tears crying in arabic 'blasphemy against the prophet'....he said if that happened in the north, he's done for.

It is a really sad thing, you know.

Painful to see my brethren suffer in ignorance

Hmm, brainwashing eh?............and what about atheists who convert to religion?

Mr_Anony: ............and what about atheists who convert to religion?

There are very few atheists that do that. But here are the reasons;


1) They are lying to get political or social favours.......christattheists!

2) They were born into atheist/agnostic households who didnt explain what religion is and its problems.

3) They were moved by a shocking moment eg a false miracle, self-fulfilling prophecy or death etc

MacDaddy01:


There are very few atheists that do that. But here are the reasons;


1) They are lying to get political or social favours.......christattheists!

2) They were born into atheist/agnostic households who didnt explain what religion is and its problems.

3) They were moved by a shocking moment eg a false miracle, self-fulfilling prophecy or death etc

............and you know these for sure because......??

Mr_Anony:

............and you know these for sure because......??

An educated guess?

Very few atheists/agnostics really convert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_atheists_and_agnostics

MacDaddy01:
An educated guess?

In other words, you really don't know

MacDaddy01:
Very few atheists/agnostics really convert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_atheists_and_agnostics

I am sure you do realize that your link is by no means a comprehensive list.

Mr_Anony:
In other words, you really don't know


I am sure you do realize that your link is by no means a comprehensive list.

I know. I have friends that are christians for only politcal reasons and I have looked at the stories of some pf the atheists converts, either they have religious families or just relate to a specific "wonder moment" that change them.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/22/prominent-atheist-blogger-converts-to-catholicism/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
http://www.heretication.info/_atheists.html



I dont make declarations out of a vacuum. I read a lot ant explain the facts

Mr_Anony:
In other words, you really don't know


I am sure you do realize that your link is by no means a comprehensive list.

The list is for famous people who have converted from agnosticism or atheism to christainity. It can never be exhaustive but it will always be a shorter list than those converting to atheism because atheism is growing in the West

Mr_Anony: Hmm, brainwashing eh?............and what about atheists who convert to religion?

I think i'm beginning to understand your style, when you are unable to fault the logic of a post, you resort to any of these

1. divert the topic of the thread (like you are doing here, changing the discussions from mind control in religions to inter-conversions between different religions and belief systems).

2. call it a silly argument but fail to demonstrate the "silliness" of the argument. and launch some ad hominien

3. invert the argument, confuse it together with something else, find another unrelated comparison and redirect question/proposition at the poster in a way that is totally unrelated to what he is saying.


thats a good style when understood from the perspective of a soldier of christ (or a muslim jihadist) defending his religion from attackers who are rational thinkers unshackled by confines of religious mind control

kudos

Am from a weak catholic background (in london) minus the dogma & the indoctrination so it was pretty easy for me to findout that all this religion stuff was crap.

It just makes u think that anyone can start a religion & worship let's say the green spaghetti monster just make sure u indoctrinate your members from an early age like in the video so that they become willing participants

cyrexx:

I think i'm beginning to understand your style, when you are unable to fault the logic of a post, you resort to any of these

1. divert the topic of the thread (like you are doing here, changing the discussions from mind control in religions to inter-conversions between different religions and belief systems).

2. call it a silly argument but fail to demonstrate the "silliness" of the argument. and launch some ad hominien

3. invert the argument, confuse it together with something else, find another unrelated comparison and redirect question/proposition at the poster in a way that is totally unrelated to what he is saying.


thats a good style when understood from the perspective of a soldier of christ (or a muslim jihadist) defending his religion from attackers who are rational thinkers unshackled by confines of religious mind control

kudos

My friend, you claim that people hold religious convictions because of brainwashing and fear. All I am trying to do is show that this is not true. The fact that people convert across religions without being coerced negates your claim.

Your position is poorly researched and doesn't really have any logic to it. It is just you promoting your bias.......and that is why you are getting touchy now, because my question exposes the weakness of your "logic".

MacDaddy01:
I know. I have friends that are christians for only politcal reasons and I have looked at the stories of some pf the atheists converts, either they have religious families or just relate to a specific "wonder moment" that change them.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/22/prominent-atheist-blogger-converts-to-catholicism/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
http://www.heretication.info/_atheists.html
I dont make declarations out of a vacuum. I read a lot ant explain the facts

MacDaddy01:
The list is for famous people who have converted from agnosticism or atheism to christainity. It can never be exhaustive but it will always be a shorter list than those converting to atheism because atheism is growing in the West

Well my friend, the number of converts is irrelevant. The mere fact that people can convert and hold strong convictions without brainwashing and fear destroys the claim of this thread.
Besides there are also varying reasons why people convert to atheism including indoctrination. case in point: the atheist states of Communist China and USSR.

Mr_Anony:


Well my friend, the number of converts is irrelevant. The mere fact that people can convert and hold strong convictions without brainwashing and fear destroys the claim of this thread.
Besides there are also varying reasons why people convert to atheism including indoctrination. case in point: the atheist states of Communist China and USSR.

China is a pagan nation. They have a believe system. Contrary to your illogical point up: Adherent of any religions always bear a REASON to convert. MacDaddy has reiterated those reason for atheist who have converted.

ghostofsparta:

China is a pagan nation. They have a believe system. Contrary to your illogical point up: Adherent of any religions always bear a REASON to convert. MacDaddy has reiterated those reason for atheist who have converted.

LOL. it is so funny how you guys often assume that your standpoint is automatically logical. Do you really understand the meaning of logic at all?

By the way, First of all logicboy doesn't know for sure what he is talking about but that's besides the point. The point is that religious convictions can be held strongly absent brainwashing and fear contrary to what Cyrexx would have us believe.

As an aside: Read about China under Mao Zedong and you'll see an atheist forcing his belief non-belief on religions and thereby converting people by means of fear and brainwashing.

cyrexx u trully got it right.it always baffles me when people always put aside logic and commonsence when it comes to religious issues.otherwise intelli.gent people become completely irrational once certain religious questions are posed.

personally i have read books on buddhism,hinduhism,ekankar,grail message,Amorc etc and contrary to what most of my christian friends believe the fundamental message is that of love and it surprises me that most of my christian friends are unwilling to listen much less read other materials.i concluded that as you said most are acting out of fear.

It is outrageous to see how these mindless fans used to the innocent children for propaganda. That should be prohibited by the law ... In fact, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights prohibits such things.
But no one can ask these moral ethics or religious fanatics.

Ptolomeus: It is outrageous to see how these mindless fans used to the innocent children for propaganda. That should be prohibited by the law ... In fact, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights prohibits such things.
But no one can ask these moral ethics or religious fanatics.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights prohibits such things? Hmm...Which article of the declaration exactly?

Mr_Anony:

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights prohibits such things? Hmm...Which article of the declaration exactly?

Estimate.
In another thread I already told you being a xenophobe and a segregationist. But now I must add that you are a real ignorant.
Art.20 Inc.2 These are children who have no right to choice.
There is also the Universal Declaration on the Rights of the Child
(1989), which clearly states that children should not be used for this purpose.
principle 9
The child must be protected against all forms of neglect, cruelty and exploitation. Not be subject to any question.
No child should be allowed to employment before an appropriate minimum age and in no case will be allocated or permitted to engage in any occupation or employment which would prejudice his health or education, or interfere with his physical, mental or moral.

principle 10
The child must be protected from practices which may foster racial, religious or other reasons. Must be educated in a spirit of understanding, tolerance, friendship among peoples, peace and universal brotherhood, and in full awareness that he must devote their energies and talents to serve their fellowmen.

Mr_Anony:
My friend, you claim that people hold religious convictions because of brainwashing and fear. All I am trying to do is show that this is not true. The fact that people convert across religions without being coerced negates your claim.

Your position is poorly researched and doesn't really have any logic to it. It is just you promoting your bias.......and that is why you are getting touchy now, because my question exposes the weakness of your "logic".

bro, you are wrong this time

1. people who convert from religion of their parent dont do it easily. maybe you dont know, i was a bornagain christian for many many years, i used to preach the gospel, i even have a certificate of ministry from one of eminent bible college in nigeria. it took me so many years to fully uninstall those ideology. even my exit was not easy. so claiming that people change their religion does not negate the fact that religion use these techniques to keep their followers. pls read very well before you write

have you ever interacted with anybody outside your faith like a muslim or a buddhist?

2. again you say my position is poorly researched yet you cant point out the "poorness"of my research finding nor the weakness of logic, just like i predicted in point 2 above, all those examples i gave in my posts are real life examples. do you even interact intellectually on religious issues with anybody at all outside your christian faith? i dont think so.

alicia b: cyrexx u trully got it right.it always baffles me when people always put aside logic and commonsence when it comes to religious issues.otherwise intelli.gent people become completely irrational once certain religious questions are posed.

personally i have read books on buddhism,hinduhism,ekankar,grail message,Amorc etc and contrary to what most of my christian friends believe the fundamental message is that of love and it surprises me that most of my christian friends are unwilling to listen much less read other materials.i concluded that as you said most are acting out of fear.

thank you very much,

the fear of eternal hell is the beginning of religious dogma integration in the human mind.

thats part of why christianity and islam has been among one of the most successful and surviving religons on earth.

it greatly motivates their evangelism efforts (christianity) and holy war (islam) hence their worldwide reach and domination of other weak religions.

you can never leave either of these two religions until you loose the fear of their two hells

cyrexx:

bro, you are wrong this time

1. people who convert from religion of their parent dont do it easily. maybe you dont know, i was a bornagain christian for many many years, i used to preach the gospel, i even have a certificate of ministry from one of eminent bible college in nigeria. it took me so many years to fully uninstall those ideology. even my exit was not easy. so claiming that people change their religion does not negate the fact that religion use these techniques to keep their followers. pls read very well before you write

You first started off by describing how religious people adamantly stick to their guns then next you asked "Why is it so?" and the reasons you gave were brainwashing and fear (note: you didn't say brainwashing and fear are probably the reason or that they are among other reasons) This made my job easy, all I now had to do was to show one instance of someone who came to a religion of his own convictions and your claim would be negated.

have you ever interacted with anybody outside your faith like a muslim or a buddhist?

yes I have

cyrexx: 2. again you say my position is poorly researched yet you cant point out the "poorness"of my research finding nor the weakness of logic, just like i predicted in point 2 above, all those examples i gave in my posts are real life examples. do you even interact intellectually on religious issues with anybody at all outside your christian faith? i dont think so.

This is why I say your position is poorly researched: You started with a bias and simply found corroborating evidence to support your bias. This is not good research. You have left out people who came to a religion because they admired it's teachings or admired the lifestyle of it's adherents or witnessed a miracle in their lives or even those who subscribe to a religion for political reasons.
The second part about the weakness of you "logic" is this. Your post is not really a logical statement in the strict sense of the word to start with i.e. premises leading to a conclusion, it is simply an ordinary statement or at best a very weak logic: "religion is caused by brainwashing and fear" you haven't shown exactly how. All you have done is make your statement, then seek supporting material without properly establishing a clear link between brainwashing/fear and religion.

For instance if I said "all boys prefer red shirts to blue shirts" and showed you a video of boys wearing red shirts, I haven't proven anything. A stronger argument would involve perhaps an independent poll that backs up my claim.

It made me laugh when you accused me of resorting to foul play because I couldn't fault the "logic" of your posts

As an aside, I would like you to look up state atheism in Communist Russia and China under Chairman Mao. It will interest you how people were persecuted and brainwashed into atheism.

For the part about how you backslid as a christian, you do realize that you are describing a subjective experience that doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.
Perhaps one day if you permit it we will talk about how you came to lose your faith

Ptolomeus:
principle 10
The child must be protected from practices which may foster racial, religious or other reasons. Must be educated in a spirit of understanding, tolerance, friendship among peoples, peace and universal brotherhood, and in full awareness that he must devote their energies and talents to serve their fellowmen.

Up until this point, I was unaware of a universal human rights declaration specifically for children. Thanks for bringing it to my knowledge. I choose to ignore the manner in which you educated me on it though.

@ Mr Anony

exactly just like i predicted you would

1. did i say brainwashing and fear ALONE? of course, research and knowledge is advancing, others can make further observation and add to my point, but unlike you close minded religionsits, i am open to shift my position if there is any evidence that proves me wrong. This is opposite to you, who approach every issue from the standpoint of "i am right, you are wrong and i want to help you to be right". What is that, if not myopic bigotry under religious delusions.

2. you say others come to religion because they admire it's teachings or admired the lifestyle of it's adherents or witnessed a miracle in their lives. so if i admire buddhism and join them and witness a miracle in my life, does that make it a true religion and others false and thus justifies the wrong belief that all non-buddhist are going to hell? you think you are sounding logical, but you are really displaying some illogicallities and ignorance here.

3. again just like i predicted in my third point before, red shirt and blue shirt compared to religious dogmatism. as much as i'm exercising self-control here, i cannot but call this a very silly argument, just look at it again and see for yourself, what's the correllation. i wont even reply this

4. again, you talk about people being brainwashed into atheism, does that change the fact that religion brainwashes children to their belief. What those Chinese as well as religionists are doing are BOTH WRONG!!!. You just think that by attacking atheism you are justifying your religion. Wrong and childish. I'm not even fighting for atheism. The fact that I am an atheist doesn't mean i want everybody to be an atheist. You will understand if you read my post in its entirety instead of glancing over to see "weak points" where you might attack my logic. read my post again in its entirety, especially the last 3 paragraphs.

5. you said you will like to talk to me personally. i dont mind. though i disagree with most of your views, i hold you in high regards. and i will gladly entertain personal discussions with you
but if your mission is to convert a "prodigal son" then forget it. i'm done with religion FOREVER. dont even waste your energy on me that you can gainfully spend to convert some more "gullible souls". i have not found any evidence of any god/God anywhere. and i aint going back to no religion.