marvrick:


Shut up joor! And they told you that the missionaries were not part of the colonizers abi? Dey play

You are daft.!

Stop jumping into arguments you know nothing about. For them to have separate names means they are different entities and they operated differently and have separate timelines, go and read your history.

babasolution:


It doesn't mean a thing, if people wan mumu may dey MUMU, that's what am saying about this current GENERATION, it's this generation that is MUMU, making the fore parents, not fathers or grandfather's, but for most I mean great-grandfathers GENERATION that were wise and made their children be Christians. But this generation like in the video has bastardized the whole thing

current generation? Muslims act the same way to arabs. Now imagine one of these people becomes a leader of his land and has to negotiate oil contracts and mining rights with whites and arabs. You will then understand Africa in 2023. Do you need me to send you videos of the colbolt slave camps they use to mine in the same Congo? How can you speak to somebody you worship like a man? How many times has northern Nigeria gone into flames for issues that happen in the middle east that doesn't concern us? White pastors who are nobody in America will come to Nigeria and collect money from 100,000 people specifically because of his skin.

Ofodirinwa:


current generation? Muslims act the same way to arabs. Now imagine one of these people becomes a leader of his land and has to negotiate oil contracts and mining rights with whites and arabs. You will then understand Africa in 2023. Do you need me to send you videos of the colbolt slave camps they use to mine in the same Congo? How can you speak to somebody you worship like a man? How many times has northern Nigeria gone into flames for issues that happen in the middle east that doesn't concern us? White pastors who are nobody in America will come to Nigeria and collect money from 100,000 people specifically because of his skin.

Yes,this GENERATION are MUMUs, ancestors of the older generation of many tribes in Africa fought against the whites during colonialism and later for independence.

If this generation chooses to see the whiteman or Arabs as gods is their problems.

People must wise up themselves, nobody will teach them

babasolution:


Yes,this GENERATION are MUMUs, ancestors of the older generation of many tribes in Africa fought against the whites during colonialism and later for independence.

If this generation chooses to see the whiteman or Arabs as gods is their problems.

People must wise up themselves, nobody will teach them

yes, those ones fought because they were not christian. Once they become christian they become weak and foolish. Even in my town/igboland 100% of those that were fighting fulani when they were trying to do Ruga were the 'traditionalists'. When they fulani would come the christian health adult men will start running. If it wasn't for the few traditionalists we have remaining we would not have repelled them. That's when I realized why it was so important for christians and arabs to spread their slave religions.

Ofodirinwa:


yes, those ones fought because they were not christian. Once they become christian they become weak and foolish. Even in my town/igboland 100% of those that were fighting fulani when they were trying to do Ruga were the 'traditionalists'. When they fulani would come the christian health adult men will start running. If it wasn't for the few traditionalists we have remaining we would not have repelled them. That's when I realized why it was so important for christians and arabs to spread their slave religions.

For the Christians,the main problem is the doctrine,which Africans/ Nigerians have taken to the extreme, the Christian doctrine encourages weakness and victimhood( forgiveness, long-suffering etc) which can be good to discourage unnecessary wars, unlike traditional culture that encourages revenge or vengeance which therefore encourages WAR,though the Christian doctrine as good ideals which fosters and encourage development and peace but the downsides which you rightly pointed out that encourages weakness and victimhood is clearly evident.

Therefore today's Africans have to learn to sift these ideals and choose the positives and drop the negative, that is wisdom,they shouldn't just swallow everything anyhow,that is were I point the current GENERATION as mumu,they aren't applying wisdom to it,just swallowing everything like fools.

BitterTruth0001:


You’re missing my point
That hospital and all the other good things could’ve been done through the colonial government , not the church.
Read my first post on this thread. Why were the good benefits like hospitals , schools etc packaged through the church instead of the government if not that it was intended to separate us from our traditional religion and culture

They knew very well that it was not religion that transformed their own societies so why did they sell that idea to us ?

The Colonial Government came to Africa to do business and reap profits for themselves and home country.
The little achievements they made were things that were necessary for their objectives.

Long before British colonialism commenced, different Europeans had been interacting with different tribes in Nigeria as traders and Missionaries.

In 1859, CMS Grammar School, Lagos was established by the Church Missionary Society under the leadership of the Rev Barbinton Macaulay (the son-in-law of Bishop Ajayi Crowther and father of Herbert Macaulay). Several Schools and Hospitals were established by the Missionaries long before Formal colonialism started in 1900.

Ofodirinwa:


The church gives the colonists the authority to colonize, the compromise is the colonist have to allow them to build churches to generate revenue and followers of the church. The Pope was the original UN, so it's equivalent of today's UN recognizing or not recognizing a state of a claim. I don't know if you're aware of the Catholic Church signing a doctrine that deemed blacks and non-christians were sub human, and therefore any crime committed against them is not technically a crime. This is what legitimized and truly launched the slave trade. This is why, no matter what country is colonizing, the Catholic church can have access to all colonies. England is not Catholic

Great post anyways. You're correct

The Colonialists didn't need anybody approval to carry out their mission. The came to exploit the land and they succeeded.

oyatz:


The Colonialists didn't need anybody approval to carry out their mission. The came to exploit the land and they succeeded.

Yes they did, the catholic church. I'm telling you actual history as a historian

Ofodirinwa:


Yes they did, the catholic church. I'm telling you actual history as a historian

The Catholic Church had nothing to contribute to the coloniasm of Nigeria.

In 1885, European powers sat for days at Berlin, Germany to divide Africa (as spoils of wars) among themselves and the areas around Rivers Niger,Benue to Lake Chad was allocated to Britain.

The Colonialists invested little resources to colonised the territory and exploited our natural resources freely.
They also turned the peoples to Labourers producing Cocoa, Timber, cotton ,Hides & Skin and other Agricultural products for British economy with minimal rewards for the producers.

During the colonial era, Nigeria could only import goods from Britain unless the goods weren't available in Britain, then they had to get permission from the Colonial Masters for European trading firms like UAC, PZ, Levers Brothers, CFAO, UTC, Leventis etc to import the manufactured goods from British-Friendly countries like France and much later, Japan.
At that time, British controlled media used to spread propaganda against Japanese goods as being substandard.

Nigeria only started trading with other countries few years after independence.

oyatz:


The Catholic Church had nothing to contribute to the coloniasm of Nigeria.

In 1885, European powers sat for days at Berlin, Germany to divide Africa (as spoils of wars) among themselves and the areas around Rivers Niger,Benue to Lake Chad was allocated to Britain.

The Colonialists invested little resources to colonised the territory and exploited our natural resources freely.
They also turned the peoples to Labourers producing Cocoa, Timber, cotton ,Hides & Skin and other Agricultural products for British economy with minimal rewards for the producers.

During the colonial era, Nigeria could only import goods from Britain unless the goods weren't available in Britain, then they had to get permission from the Colonial Masters for European trading firms like UAC, PZ, Levers Brothers, CFAO, UTC, Leventis etc to import the manufactured goods from British-Friendly countries like France and much later, Japan.
At that time, British controlled media used to spread propaganda against Japanese goods as being substandard.

Nigeria only started trading with other countries few years after independence.

since you seem to be interested and well versed in history. Read this when you get some time. https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/doctrine-discovery-1493

All colonies must be recognized by ordained by the pope, the pope also issued the order that all non-christian lands are not legitmate nations and can be colonized. Again, this is why even though Britian is not catholic, the catholic church is very active in Nigeria.

the pope served as the UN of his time for europeans. If the UN recognizes something, it's offical among nations, if the UN doesn't, it's not.

Ofodirinwa:


since you seem to be interested and well versed in history. Read this when you get some time. https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/doctrine-discovery-1493

All colonies must be recognized by ordained by the pope, the pope also issued the order that all non-christian lands are not legitmate nations and can be colonized. Again, this is why even though Britian is not catholic, the catholic church is very active in Nigeria.

the pope served as the UN of his time for europeans. If the UN recognizes something, it's offical among nations, if the UN doesn't, it's not.

The pope order or papal order was in the time early of slave trade.With the rise of the Protestant movements with England severing from the catholic order and Martin Luther activities, the popes power were weakened

The colonial times were different

babasolution:


The pope order or papal order was in the time early of slave trade.With the rise of the Protestant movements with England severing from the catholic order and Martin Luther activities, the popes power were weakened

The colonial times were different

So then why is the catholic church in Nigeria and specifically brought in by colonialists? Why wasn't it all angelican?

Ofodirinwa:


So then why is the catholic church in Nigeria and specifically brought in by colonialists? Why wasn't it all angelican?

The catholic had missionaries, the catholic also got in before the Anglican, remember the Portuguese,Dutch ,even French were here before the British came

babasolution:


The catholic had missionaries, the catholic also got in before the Anglican, remember the Portuguese,Dutch ,even French were here before the British came

I posted the Doctrine of Discovery. It will show you why the catholic church came with the Portugese (slave traders) and dutch (slave traders) and did really went into overdrive with the English (colonizers/Slave traders).

In order for you to have liscense to sell slaves, and colonize other countries, you must allow the catholic church into the area and offer them land. If you refuse, your claim is not recognized. The Pope is also the one that declared all non-christian land is up for grabs and the enslavement of non-christians is completely legal for all european nations.

Again, I posted the document the pope wrote, you can read it.

Ofodirinwa:


I posted the Doctrine of Discovery. It will show you why the catholic church came with the Portugese (slave traders) and dutch (slave traders) and did really went into overdrive with the English (colonizers/Slave traders).

In order for you to have liscense to sell slaves, and colonize other countries, you must allow the catholic church into the area and offer them land. If you refuse, your claim is not recognized. The Pope is also the one that declared all non-christian land is up for grabs and the enslavement of non-christians is completely legal for all european nations.

Again, I posted the document the pope wrote, you can read it.

Yes ,it was the doctrine back then,most of the popes were evil,probably till now even

babasolution:


Yes ,it was the doctrine back then,most of the popes were evil,probably till now even

The Catholic Church also signed the unprecedented rule that says you can enslave non-christians, and even after they become christians they remain slaves. This is what brought about the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. Without these Papal Bulls European nations would have had to follow their local laws about slavery which they had all abolished by the 1400-1500s. That's why few slaves were taken to Europe. But the Pope ordained that in 'the new world' (the Americas) slavery is 'back' in full swing.

Ofodirinwa:


The Catholic Church also signed the unprecedented rule that says you can enslave on-christians, and even after they become christians they remain slaves. This is what brought about the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. Without these Papal Bulls European nations would have had to follow their local laws about slavery which they had all abolished by the 1400-1500s. That's why few slaves were taken to Europe. But the Pope ordained that in 'the new world' (the Americas) slavery is 'back' in full swing.

Yes,again the doctrine of Christianity and the good it brought is the key thing here

You should also note that many black tribes were ever willing to cooperate and trade with the whites for their benefits, if they didn't trade colonialism would have been prevented

It is not a Coincidence that Ethiopia the only African Country to successfully resist Colonisation by Europeans was an Ancient Orthodox Christian Country

christistruth01:

It is not a Coincidence that Ethiopia the only African Country to successfully resist Colonisation by Europeans was an Ancient Orthodox Christian Country

There's a difference between fighting Italy (weak, backwards country) 2 times, and fighting Britian (most powerful country in the world) for 100 years. The Akan for example fought the British for 100 years until the british finally won. Ethiopia found Italy 1 time and won, a second time and lost.

BitterTruth0001:
Perhaps you’re confusing the European renaissance when Europe modernized itself with the rise and spread of Christianity/Islam. Perhaps not.

But in any case , Christianity already existed for thousands of years before the renaissance . But the remarkable transformation of Europe did not happen right away and infact is not tied directly to any religion.

If anything , the renaissance was linked to the desire by European intellectuals to bring back the glory of classical antiquity .
Classical antiquity was a phase in European history several thousands of years ago before Christianity came . The was the period of the Greek philosophers and early roman period . A lot of progress of was achieved in this era and guess what , they were all PAGANS at the time believing in many gods: Zeus , Cupid, Poseidon etc


My point is that if the British had not come with their way of doing things , we here in Africa would have had our own renaissance at some point . They came and disrupted our way of life . Yes I agree , the Bible is an extremely deep philosophical book of thought. One of the deepest , if not the deepest ever written. But the British and indeed the rest of Europe never at any point attributed their technological advancements to the adoption of religion . If anything , the renaissance opened their eyes and they questioned the dogma of religion ; causing them to focused more on advancing this life here on earth instead focusing on the afterlife .

Therefore it was wrong of them to come and slam their religion down our throats and sell it to us as the solution and key to a better life here on earth when they knew very well that it was not what transformed their societies. In other words, their own religion did not save them

We could’ve accepted the technology and the advancements while remaining true to our culture and our traditional way of life devoid of the disruptively catastrophic interference of foreign religions

Europe become more powerful because religion played less of a role in society.

BitterTruth0001:
Perhaps you’re confusing the European renaissance when Europe modernized itself with the rise and spread of Christianity/Islam. Perhaps not.

But in any case , Christianity already existed for thousands of years before the renaissance . But the remarkable transformation of Europe did not happen right away and infact is not tied directly to any religion.

If anything , the renaissance was linked to the desire by European intellectuals to bring back the glory of classical antiquity .
Classical antiquity was a phase in European history several thousands of years ago before Christianity came . The was the period of the Greek philosophers and early roman period . A lot of progress of was achieved in this era and guess what , they were all PAGANS at the time believing in many gods: Zeus , Cupid, Poseidon etc


My point is that if the British had not come with their way of doing things , we here in Africa would have had our own renaissance at some point . They came and disrupted our way of life . Yes I agree , the Bible is an extremely deep philosophical book of thought. One of the deepest , if not the deepest ever written. But the British and indeed the rest of Europe never at any point attributed their technological advancements to the adoption of religion . If anything , the renaissance opened their eyes and they questioned the dogma of religion ; causing them to focused more on advancing this life here on earth instead focusing on the afterlife .

Therefore it was wrong of them to come and slam their religion down our throats and sell it to us as the solution and key to a better life here on earth when they knew very well that it was not what transformed their societies. In other words, their own religion did not save them

We could’ve accepted the technology and the advancements while remaining true to our culture and our traditional way of life devoid of the disruptively catastrophic interference of foreign religions

Africans are too nostalgic and traditional. Traditional way of life has gotten the country nowhere. Africans believe in the myth of the good ole days trying to live like their ancestors. Let go of this myth. There is a very dark side of tradition.

I'VE READ SO MUCH GARBAGE ON THIS THREAD.

Everybody is WRONG.

The ONLY REASON Nigerians/Africans abandoned their traditional religion was because the colonialists seized NOT just the land, but the resources and riches of the land.

Access to those resources became dependent on your getting a British-style education in one of their wretched 'missionary schools', become a clerk, typist or whatever. A COLONIAL JOB.

(In areas where Islam was prevalent, they made no such demands to abandon Islam.)

Now to gain ADMITTANCE into those ''missionary schools'', you had to renounce your traditional religion, adopt christianity, get baptised, and get an English name, like John, 'Henry', or 'Jonathan'.

So all the chiefs and great traditional leaders began sending their wards to the missionary schools, and those later became powerful leaders who were christian, and who entrenched the new belief systems across their regions. Guys like Samuel Ajayi Crowther and co.

One thing you people need to realise is that Nigerians have been aware of christianity since at least the 1400s.

The Benin Empire had extensive trade relations with Europe, especially Portugal, with whom she exchanged ambassadors in the 1500s.

Yes, there actually was an Embassy of the Benin Empire in Lisbon, Portugal, in the 1500s, staffed by Benin bureaucrats, and an ambassador.

King Alfonso in the early 1500s had tried severally to get Oba Esigie to allow the establishment of churches in the Benin kingdom.

These overtures were bluntly rejected by the Oba, who only allowed the establishment of one or two churches in the kingdom. And no more.

And so it remained for many centuries, until 1897, when the British invaded, bombarded, burnt down and looted the great city of its treasures, like the pack of savage vandals they are, and today display their loot shamelessly in their 'museums'.

SO THIS WHOLE GARBAGE THAT ''Oh, it was because Africans saw that their gods did not work'' etc etc is just that , PURE GARBAGE.

It was ECONOMIC BLACKMAIL BY COLONIAL INVADERS WHO PREDICATED INDIVIDUAL SUCCESS UPON ABANDONMENT OF AFRICAN RELIGION, that forced them to do so.

Ancient Nigerians always saw the christian story as BULLCRAP.

The entire story made no sense to them. They laughed it off as the story of children.

They stopped laughing when the 'holy' christian guns by colonial thieves pointed at them.

If Africans abandoned religions because of military defeat or setbacks, why do the descendants of slaves practice their Yoruba religions till today in Brazil, Cuba, Trinidad and elsewhere?

Why didn't they say ''Oh well our African gods did not save us from being enslaved, so let us run and accept the 'white man Jesus' as our ''personal lord and saviour''?

NONSENSE.

ECONOMIC BLACKMAIL is the answer.

Here's what would have happened if the British had not IMPOSED Christianity on Nigerians.

They would have handed over to an educated leadership practicing a modernised version of TRADITIONAL RELIGION, just like JAPAN is doing today.

Japan's religion is Shintoism.

There is very little difference between Shintoism and African Traditional Religion.

In Japan there are over 200,000 public shrines, many built and maintained by the govt.

When a Japanese man buys a car, he takes it to a shrine where the traditional priest pours a strange concoction over the car, to guarantee safe journeys.

The Japanese simply replaced blood sacrifice with sacrifice of food, flowers, etc. They upgraded with the times.

THAT IS WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN NIGERIA, if the British were not ASSHOLES.

By now we should have BEAUTIFUL SHRINES AND TEMPLES to our various orishas and to the Most High.

Shrine in Osaka, Japan

Rossikk:
I'VE READ SO MUCH GARBAGE ON THIS THREAD.

Everybody is WRONG.

The ONLY REASON Nigerians/Africans abandoned their traditional religion was because the colonialists seized NOT just the land, but the resources and riches of the land.

Access to those resources became dependent on your getting a British-style education in one of their wretched 'missionary schools', become a clerk, typist or whatever. A COLONIAL JOB.

(In areas where Islam was prevalent, they made no such demands to abandon Islam.)

Now to gain ADMITTANCE into those ''missionary schools'', you had to renounce your traditional religion, adopt christianity, get baptised, and get an English name, like John, 'Henry', or 'Jonathan'.

So all the chiefs and great traditional leaders began sending their wards to the missionary schools, and those later became powerful leaders who were christian, and who entrenched the new belief systems across their regions. Guys like Samuel Ajayi Crowther and co.

One thing you people need to realise is that Nigerians have been aware of christianity since at least the 1400s.

The Benin Empire had extensive trade relations with Europe, especially Portugal, with whom she exchanged ambassadors in the 1500s.

Yes, there actually was an Embassy of the Benin Empire in Lisbon, Portugal, in the 1500s, staffed by Benin bureaucrats, and an ambassador.

King Alfonso in the early 1500s had tried severally to get Oba Esigie to allow the establishment of churches in the Benin kingdom.

These overtures were bluntly rejected by the Oba, who only allowed the establishment of one or two churches in the kingdom. And no more.

And so it remained for many centuries, until 1897, when the British invaded, bombarded, burnt down and looted the great city of its treasures, like the pack of savage vandals they are, and today display their loot shamelessly in their 'museums'.

SO THIS WHOLE GARBAGE THAT ''Oh, it was because Africans saw that their gods did not work'' etc etc is just that , PURE GARBAGE.

It was ECONOMIC BLACKMAIL BY COLONIAL INVADERS WHO PREDICATED INDIVIDUAL SUCCESS UPON ABANDONMENT OF AFRICAN RELIGION, that forced them to do so.

Ancient Nigerians always saw the christian story as BULLCRAP.

The entire story made no sense to them. They laughed it off as the story of children.

They stopped laughing when the 'holy' christian guns by colonial thieves pointed at them.

If Africans abandoned religions because of military defeat or setbacks, why do the descendants of slaves practice their Yoruba religions till today in Brazil, Cuba, Trinidad and elsewhere?

Why didn't they say ''Oh well our African gods did not save us from being enslaved, so let us run and accept the 'white man Jesus' as our ''personal lord and saviour''?

NONSENSE.

ECONOMIC BLACKMAIL is the answer.

Here's what would have happened if the British had not IMPOSED Christianity on Nigerians.

They would have handed over to an educated leadership practicing a modernised version of TRADITIONAL RELIGION, just like JAPAN is doing today.

Japan's religion is Shintoism.

There is very little difference between Shintoism and African Traditional Religion.

In Japan there are over 200,000 public shrines, many built and maintained by the govt.

When a Japanese man buys a car, he takes it to a shrine where the traditional priest pours a strange concoction over the car, to guarantee safe journeys.

The Japanese simply replaced blood sacrifice with sacrifice of food, flowers, etc. They upgraded with the times.

THAT IS WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN NIGERIA, if the British were not ASSHOLES.

By now we should have BEAUTIFUL SHRINES AND TEMPLES to our various orishas and to the Most High.

Shrine in Osaka, Japan

Many people willingly abandoned their religion, they weren't entirely forced or coerced,

Again many people willingly abandoned their religion, they weren't forced or coerced.

Oyibos are abandoning christianity also as churches gets empty every day.