As a lot of people are looking for ways to leave Nigeria, thats the way thousands of people come to lagos as the land flowing with milk and honey and we all know that its not true. As long as u are a Nigerian u have every right to live anywhere u please, but the truth is the people that mess lagos up dont care about Lagos. I have had a conversation with someone dumping refuse where it shouldnt be dumped and do u know wot he told me? He said "wetin concern me na my papa land be this?" The govt should and will enforce this street trading issue, i can guarantee that. When Fashola went to speak with the people living at the bar beach a few months ago he gave them time to leave but they didnt leave. When the bulldozers came nobody told them to leave. As London is not for everybody so is Lagos and it is the bitter truth. How much do people pay for congestion charge just to drive their cars in the city in london? How much rent do u pay in London every month? How many people are moving outside london these days? These are just subtle ways of decongesting london and with time its going to get to that in lagos.

Yes farming is respectable and can definitely put food on the table even if u are not rich. So whether we like it or not there has to be a farmer somewhere and a driver and a washman and other things. When they banned Okada in Abuja why didnt the government provide another source of livelihood for the okada riders?

Anyway there has to be critics to the policies a govt chooses to implement all i just have to say is lets wait and see the outcome of wot Fashola is doing. He just distributed over 200 vehicles with communicaton gadgets and bullet proof vests to the police today. He also has put an insurance policy in place for these police officers. Roads are being fixed on a daily basis. So it is obvious that he has a plan for lagos and no form of politicking or biased criticism will stop him from achieving that (i hope ).

Ok, I have changed my mind on this subject. It is a very sore topic, because the banning of street trading and demolishing of stalls, erected illegally is bound to affect one's income. If the government is willing to provide shopping malls, and rent them out at a reasonable price to these traders, so be it. It will cut down on traffic and moreso reduce the chaotic atmosphere in the Lagos arena. I have also read some of the view points offered by some of the respondents. It appears they are fans of this present governor. I dont know who he is, nor familiar with his policies to ascertain if they are legitimate or not. But having been in Lagos in 1991, and witnessing the physical assault on Market women on the sideways by members of the armed forces was a disturbing experience.


For those who are arguing against it on grounds that it is a herculean task, remember that Rome was not built in a day. However, if the likes of one particular governor, who demolished Maroko to beautify the environment is the same tactic employed by the present regime, I cant endorse it at all. Sha, na my 2 cents be that.

It May have worked in abuja but we are speaking of Lagos here. Abuja was nowhere land until just a couple of years ago. We are speaking of Lagos, of the top ten most populated cities in the world for the last 20 years or even less, LAGOS. The city that was built on these street sellers backs. Heck, you rarely find pictures of the city that exclude sites of these street sellers. Street Sellers have been landmarks in lagos and part of what made lagos what it was. You can not do the same thing you did in Abuja in lagos cause when you compare the numbers alone, and the unemployment rate in the state, I am not sure booting them without helping with some affordable option in some way is really going to help the lagos economy. Banning okada in abuja can not be REMOTELY compared to doing same in a place like Lagos. I mean that is like comparing kobo and dollars,  we have a few okada riders in Abuja compared to hundreds of thousands of street sellers in Lagos, I don't think you can even compare those two. You have the consider the magnitude here. The government is once again, for the umpteenth time in the history of lagos, kicking over 300, 000 sellers off the streets of lagos,  300,000 people( I am sure the number is higher)  who did not have alternative employment. I mean that number in America alone is a big deal for the WHOLE country, compared to that number in just one state.  How many farms will you give them?? How many college degrees/ certificate programs can you pay for, for these??


You are right there @Ndipe. No one knows the heart of anyone. I have never met the governor and I am going to sit here and make claims like the one the other dude made about being sure the guy is going to do what he proposed he would. I have heard so many many before him make the same claim and I believe the situation in the state will tell the rest of the story. I am not a fan of the man neither am I against him. I am just a lagosian waiting for the right people to do the right thing by us lagosians and I mean even those sellers who even though some would like to label them as criminals are also lagosians.

I really do hope we now have a man who will do the right thing. Not just for the short term but for the good of the long term economy of the state itself.

You can't win with Nigerians, if they leave lagos as is, people will complain about how dirty the state is, if they decide to take action, the people will complain about the people that will be affected. Gees

rdokoye:

You can't win with Nigerians, if they leave lagos as is, people will complain about how dirty the state is, if they decide to take action, the people will complain about the people that will be affected. Gees

If you tried to follow the thread, you would realize that this has been about doing it a better way this time ONCE AND FOR ALL VERSUS doing the same old thing we have done for at least 20 years now in the same state and expecting better results this time AGAIN @rdokoye

Ndipe:

Ok, I have changed my mind on this subject. It is a very sore topic, because the banning of street trading and demolishing of stalls, erected illegally is bound to affect one's income. If the government is willing to provide shopping malls, and rent them out at a reasonable price to these traders, so be it. It will cut down on traffic and moreso reduce the chaotic atmosphere in the Lagos arena. I have also read some of the view points offered by some of the respondents. It appears they are fans of this present governor. I don't know who he is, nor familiar with his policies to ascertain if they are legitimate or not. But having been in Lagos in 1991, and witnessing the physical assault on Market women on the sideways by members of the armed forces was a disturbing experience.


For those who are arguing against it on grounds that it is a herculean task, remember that Rome was not built in a day. However, if the likes of one particular governor, who demolished Maroko to beautify the environment is the same tactic employed by the present regime, I can't endorse it at all. Sha, na my 2 cents be that.

Thank you.  It is inhuman to treat market women that way instead of the armed forces to put their services towards keeping peace in Darfur.  How can you just start shoving and brutalizing market women all over the place for something that can be solved with decency.  Giving these trigger-happy, idle so called armed forces opportunity to molest women?  

Rome was not built in a day yes!  But when Rome became congested what did the Romans do?  They went outside Rome and left Rome the way it was.  They did not use bulldozers to destroy the whole place.  Rome dicongested it self like London is trying to do now---Increase taxes to ease decongestion---to encourage people to live outside London.  These people wired in the right framework--provided alternatives for the citizens and use the laws to enforce offenders.  Not by destroying life and property.  If there were enough facilities to go round, these market women and men would not be back on the streets of Nigeria not just Lagos! That is how civilized people ought to act.  But not in Nigeria.

femionasan:

As a lot of people are looking for ways to leave Nigeria, thats the way thousands of people come to lagos as the land flowing with milk and honey and we all know that its not true. As long as u are a Nigerian u have every right to live anywhere u please, but the truth is the people that mess lagos up don't care about Lagos. I have had a conversation with someone dumping refuse where it shouldnt be dumped and do u know wot he told me? He said "wetin concern me na my papa land be this?" The govt should and will enforce this street trading issue, i can guarantee that.

When Fashola went to speak with the people living at the bar beach a few months ago he gave them time to leave but they didnt leave. When the bulldozers came nobody told them to leave. As London is not for everybody so is Lagos and it is the bitter truth. How much do people pay for congestion charge just to drive their cars in the city in london? How much rent do u pay in London every month? How many people are moving outside london these days? These are just subtle ways of decongesting london and with time its going to get to that in lagos.

Yes farming is respectable and can definitely put food on the table even if u are not rich. So whether we like it or not there has to be a farmer somewhere and a driver and a washman and other things. When they banned Okada in Abuja why didnt the government provide another source of livelihood for the okada riders?

Anyway there has to be critics to the policies a govt chooses to implement all i just have to say is lets wait and see the outcome of wot Fashola is doing. He just distributed over 200 vehicles with communicaton gadgets and bullet proof vests to the police today. He also has put an insurance policy in place for these police officers. Roads are being fixed on a daily basis. [b]So it is obvious that he has a plan for lagos and no form of politicking or biased criticism will stop him from achieving that ([/b]i hope ).

Spoken like a true Nigerian.  Points well taken.  We shall see if he out-performs Marwa and his "keke" politics in Lagos.  We all wish him "happy bulldozing"!   may I remind you that the Okada riders are back in full force!

rdokoye:

You can't win with Nigerians, if they leave lagos as is, people will complain about how dirty the state is, if they decide to take action, the people will complain about the people that will be affected. Gees

Wonderful.  And you think Fashola is going about it the right way?   Talk about putting old wine in a new bottle.  Can you please suggest that he come up with new ideas not "old antiquated" El Rufairian bulldozing theories!

Kobojunkie:

It May have worked in abuja but we are speaking of Lagos here. Abuja was nowhere land until just a couple of years ago. We are speaking of Lagos, of the top ten most populated cities in the world for the last 20 years or even less, LAGOS. The city that was built on these street sellers backs. Heck, you rarely find pictures of the city that exclude sites of these street sellers. Street Sellers have been landmarks in lagos and part of what made lagos what it was.

You can not do the same thing you did in Abuja in lagos cause when you compare the numbers alone, and the unemployment rate in the state, I am not sure booting them without helping with some affordable option in some way is really going to help the lagos economy.



Banning okada in abuja can not be REMOTELY compared to doing same in a place like Lagos. I mean that is like comparing kobo and dollars,  we have a few okada riders in Abuja compared to hundreds of thousands of street sellers in Lagos, I don't think you can even compare those two. You have the consider the magnitude here. The government is once again, for the umpteenth time in the history of lagos, kicking over 300, 000 sellers off the streets of lagos,  300,000 people( I am sure the number is higher)  who did not have alternative employment. I mean that number in America alone is a big deal for the WHOLE country, compared to that number in just one state.  How many farms will you give them?? How many college degrees/ certificate programs can you pay for, for these??


You are right there @Ndipe. No one knows the heart of anyone. I have never met the governor and I am going to sit here and make claims like the one the other dude made about being sure the guy is going to do what he proposed he would. I have heard so many many before him make the same claim and I believe the situation in the state will tell the rest of the story. I am not a fan of the man neither am I against him. I am just a lagosian waiting for the right people to do the right thing by us lagosians and I mean even those sellers who even though some would like to label them as criminals are also lagosians.
I really do hope we now have a man who will do the right thing. Not just for the short term but for the good of the long term economy of the state itself.

Thanks for your objectivity as always!  Talk about mixing onions and potatos in the same basket! Any reasonable "government" caters for more and above what the citizens need to avoid anarchy. More schools than needed, more social amenities, more alternative transportation services, more real estate and housing facilities, surplus healthcare establishments and so on and so forth. In Nigeria the reverse is the case.

The notion of a "deficit" is very romantic so the privileged can remain so and the under-served would only dream of things to come when they depart this world. There must always be a "shortage" of amenities to create a perpetual environment of frustration. You wonder why there is so much unrest in Nigeria? Now people are finding any outlet to vent out how frustrated they are. Religion, Fuel scarcity, Hunger, Diseases, Tribalism, Militancy, Oil derivation, Illiteracy---name it!

Kobojunkie:


If you tried to follow the thread, you would realize that this has been about doing it a better way this time ONCE AND FOR ALL VERSUS doing the same old thing we have done for at least 20 years now in the same state and expecting better results this time AGAIN @rdokoye

You wonder sometimes what kind of genetic make up links us together as Nigerians.  It is really amazing how some people attempt to reason!  All I can say is thank you again and again for approaching this topic with much needed sensitivity and maturity.

Two basic things i am saying. Just two
1) Because you are doing something to make ends meet, being whatever it is, if iss seen as unlawful in anyway is not right. Regardless if u were swindled to think u could set up a lil shed on the street and have fake papers.
2) I know people have lived in particular regions for generations and all but if the cost of living becomes higher than you can afford (eg cant rent shops, cant rent a place, pretty much cant survive), in my opinion the next best thing is to find somewhere you can survive. As harsh as i might sound, its better than suffering urself i think. But what do i know

My problem with your responses here is that you have not been able to proffer solution to some of the issues you raised. Now you just said that they should go to somewhere they can survive. Though God forbid you are our Governor, you will gladly address those affected people to go to where they can survive. Will you? Be reasonable and remorseful I beg.

ROMBL

OH GOSH!!!!

@ yemmight
Govt dont av to be sentimental wen taking a serious decision like dis. We all know Nigerians pretends to be Ignorant of the law. Av u ever been to Dosunmu market? We av lock up shops and street traders, when Council officials r parading, those on the street will run away,the question is: why are they running?
Cos they know they are not suppose to be there!
They constitute health harzard, they mess up the place and leave it for the lock up shop owners to clean it up.
Thursday morning suppose to be the environmental day,wen u visit a major market, u will never see all these road side traders, they will still be sleeping while others r busy cleaning the environment!!!!
Most of the road side traders sells fake products, n wen u go back d next day, they will not be there again.
Pure water linon is everywhere, nobody to pick them up.
A viehicle may loose its break and thereby killing those on the road side, avn't u thought of that?
If Lagos state decides to sanitise the state, there must av been lots of deliberation and preferred solutions by stakeholders.
Maybe, and I repeat maybe, the govt will build a low income shops for them and ask the buyers to patronise them there.
The buyers also av a big role to play here cos if they refuse to buy by the road side, definitely, those traders will move inside.

Road side trading is not good , its illegal and thats y u see all these task force arresting and packing them.
They have to pay money for bail.
"There is no Trader without a buyer".
Everything we need is orientation by the govt to the public.

Poverty is everywhere, there are poor pple in USA, FRANCE, BRITAIN, GERMANY, JAPAN, etc but we dont av to be ignorant of wat is right in our country if we must develop.
We need to do the right thing thru orientation and re-orientation.
Thats my opinion anyway and I stand to be corrected.

Tawa-Temi:

@ yemmight
Govt don't av to be sentimental when taking a serious decision like this. We all know Nigerians pretends to be Ignorant of the law. Av u ever been to Dosunmu market? We av lock up shops and street traders, when Council officials r parading, those on the street will run away,the question is: why are they running?
Cos they know they are not suppose to be there!

Most of the road side traders sells fake products, n when u go back d next day, they will not be there again.
Pure water linon is everywhere, nobody to pick them up.
A viehicle may loose its break and thereby killing those on the road side, avn't u thought of that?If Lagos state decides to sanitise the state, there must av been lots of deliberation and preferred solutions by stakeholders.
Maybe, and I repeat maybe, the govt will build a low income shops for them and ask the buyers to patronise them there.
The buyers also av a big role to play here because if they refuse to buy by the road side, definitely, those traders will move inside.

Poverty is everywhere, there are poor people in USA, FRANCE, BRITAIN, GERMANY, JAPAN, etc but we don't av to be ignorant of what is right in our country if we must develop.
We need to do the right thing through orientation and re-orientation.
Thats my opinion anyway and I stand to be corrected.

I have some questions for you about your post. Depending on how long you have actually spent living in Lagos state. You mean in the past 20 years, Notice I am giving information to you that you can go look up for your education on the situation in this state, cause I believe people need to do their research to help better move things forward instead of continuing to stay put and wonder why , Did the Governments of past not deliberate in the past? If they did and they decided on this same solution which we know has failed over and over in the state, what makes you believe that this time the same solution will work I would like for you to give me information that you might be privvy to there

My next question, street trading has been a part of the city for decades, heck, I would guess even before you and I were born, why is a car running off the road into these traders suddenly a problem??

Kobojunkie:

My next question, street trading has been a part of the city for decades, heck, I would guess even before you and I were born, why is a car running off the road into these traders suddenly a problem??

Do you wish these street traders well, at all? When these roads were constructed, were they meant to serve as trading points for traders? So they should continue to endanger their lives, by buying & selling along the road, while you sit in your own cosy corner far away from the 'wahala' of Lagos traffic?
Chei!!

laudate:

Do you wish these street traders well, at all? When these roads were constructed, were they meant to serve as trading points for traders? So they should continue to endanger their lives, by buying & selling along the road, while you sit in your own cosy corner far away from the 'wahala' of Lagos traffic?
Chei!!

Let me repeat myself, and I hope you will read my post. These traders HAVE been on these roads for decades now. Selling their wares with the cars and other vehicles right there with them. Why the SUDDEN move to care that a car or something might hit them today as if to say cars have just been introduced or something has changed in the original equation? if you want to put me down so you can play hero, I am good. Just at least ANSWER THE QUESTION AS IT IS WRITTEN, not twist it to earn brownie points or something

Kobojunkie:

Let me repeat myself, and I hope you will read my post. These traders HAVE been on these roads for decades now. Selling their wares with the cars and other vehicles right there with them. Why the SUDDEN move to care that a car or something might hit them today as if to say cars have just been introduced or something has changed in the original equation? if you want to put me down so you can play hero, I am good. Just at least ANSWER THE QUESTION AS IT IS WRITTEN, not twist it to earn brownie points or something

Thank You again.  Lagos does not have any other problems right now than it's "ugliness" that need the urgent "beautification" according to the "Flagrant Fashola"!  Why not start by beautifying all the "shacks" called secondary schools first.  What a country of misplaced priorities! What a trifle! What a beautitude!

I am sure the American government---not perfect mind you-- knows where 14 million illegal aliens are.  They marched on the streets of America some time ago.  Why did the government not round them up and send them to their respective home countries?    Now the American government is forced to find humane means of re-settling these illegals based on the fact that they can "empathize and "humanize" problems.  We need to learn that in Nigeria. 


In Europe and London for example only heaven knows how many illegal residents are there.  But they do not make it a point of duty to go and break down doors in the middle of the night displacing families unless you are caught in a criminal situation.  Then your matter comes up.  Trading on the streets of Lagos is NOT a criminal offence.  Provide alternatives before you decide to destabilize the current set up.  We are so happy to "destroy" things in Nigeria without implementing alternatives and that is my main concern not the idea of "petty" trading and "beautification." Are you guys not sick of it?

Well I'm not following the thread, I'm responding to the first post, is that a crime?

almondjoy:

Thank You again. Lagos does not have any other problems right now than it's "ugliness" that need the urgent "beautification" according to the Flagrand Fashola! Why not start by beautifying all the "shacks" called secondary schools first. What a country of misplaced priorities!

http://allafrica.com/stories/200710010746.html

You really know what you are talking about, dont you?

dcdal:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200710010746.html

You really know what you are talking about, don't you?

No.   But I am yet to see how the money was spent to re-furbish the schools and education in Lagos state.  Do you have some libraries and housing to take care of the students? Or did the monies end up in some other people's pockets afterall--as usual?

But we can see the beautification of Lagos with the proliferation of "refuse" mounds all over Lagos from demolishing and more redemolition over the past 47 years of Nigeria's existence.

rdokoye:

Well I'm not following the thread, I'm responding to the first post, is that a crime?

You are not missing much since we are only repeating ourselves as necessary to educated a set of "slow" learners.    Fashola thinks it is a crime for petty traders to litter "beautiful Lagos".  Even worse than armed robbery or murder!   The real crime is the the beautification of this so-called "Lagos Latrine"  ---a heinous crime against humanity!

Kobojunkie:

Let me repeat myself, and I hope you will read my post. These traders HAVE been on these roads for decades now. Selling their wares with the cars and other vehicles right there with them. Why the SUDDEN move to care that a car or something might hit them today as if to say cars have just been introduced or something has changed in the original equation? if you want to put me down so you can play hero, I am good. Just at least ANSWER THE QUESTION AS IT IS WRITTEN, not twist it to earn brownie points or something

I have answered the question in each of my previous posts. How many times do you want me to repeat myself. It is RISKY selling along the roadside or on the streets or on railway tracks, because the streets & railway lines were NOT designed for such things in the first place. Can you understand that, or is it too 'twisted' for you to decode?

What is bad, is bad. Don't let us give excuses, and say just because the street traders have been there for a long time, so therefore it doesn't matter, let us leave them there.

Someone gave an example of how it was illegal to hawk on the streets of London and other cities. So is it alright to do so, in Nigeria? It is a simple question. The fact that it has been with us for a long time, does that now make it right? A lot of vices have been in Naija for ages, does the length of time matter? Has length of time ever turned a vice into virtue?

I was at Ikeja railway juction a few years ago, when the Chinese people rehabilitated a few trains and decided to put them in service. Some of those who had turned that part of the railway line, into their trading post merely escaped death by whiskers. A few of them were NOT so lucky. It was a sad sight.

Once, I arrived at a popular bus-stop in Lagos, shortly after a danfo had rammed into some street hawkers, who were barely in their teens. Onlookers gazed on speechless, and some started wailing. Would it have brought them back to life? No.

I don't know how else I can make my points clear enough for you to understand. But while I do not agree with your own views, I respect the fact that you have a right to them, just as I would expect you to respect mine, and stop trying to make a mockery of the whole issue, simply because I do not buy into your particular brand of logic.

Those who see nothing wrong in street trading can now have the floor. Am out.

What are your proposed alternatives sir? To put a final end to this vicious cycle?  No it is not wrong to trade on the streets because it has long been the tradition.  It is not really a "moral" issue but a social inconvenience!  That can be remedied using the right channels and faculties---Let us start with "common sense".

Look @Laudate,


it is beginning to dawn on me that instead of reading and answering posts as is, you tend to take your own twist and add your own to it to make it seem that one is playing a game or VICTIM AND HERO with you or something. Do you mind not even bother replying my posts if you CANNOT stick to answering as is without trying to play the I CAN READ YOUR MIND EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE 1000's OF MILES AWAY FROM ME game??

I find it very ridiculous that you would see such a simple question as the one I posted to Tawa up there and then run off with your game with it. Please consider me one of those you should not even bother with since you can not even hold a civil conversation without going off topic every single time.

Tawa-Temi:

@ yemmight
Govt don't av to be sentimental when taking a serious decision like this. We all know Nigerians pretends to be Ignorant of the law. Av u ever been to Dosunmu market? We av lock up shops and street traders, when Council officials r parading, those on the street will run away,the question is: why are they running?
Cos they know they are not suppose to be there!
They constitute health harzard, they mess up the place and leave it for the lock up shop owners to clean it up.
Thursday morning suppose to be the environmental day,when u visit a major market, u will never see all these road side traders, they will still be sleeping while others r busy cleaning the environment!!!!
Most of the road side traders sells fake products, n when u go back d next day, they will not be there again.
Pure water linon is everywhere, nobody to pick them up.
A viehicle may loose its break and thereby killing those on the road side, avn't u thought of that?
If Lagos state decides to sanitise the state, there must av been lots of deliberation and preferred solutions by stakeholders.
Maybe, and I repeat maybe, the govt will build a low income shops for them and ask the buyers to patronise them there.
The buyers also av a big role to play here because if they refuse to buy by the road side, definitely, those traders will move inside.

Road side trading is not good , its illegal and thats y u see all these task force arresting and packing them.
They have to pay money for bail.
"There is no Trader without a buyer".
Everything we need is orientation by the govt to the public.

Poverty is everywhere, there are poor people in USA, FRANCE, BRITAIN, GERMANY, JAPAN, etc but we don't av to be ignorant of what is right in our country if we must develop.
We need to do the right thing through orientation and re-orientation.
Thats my opinion anyway and I stand to be corrected.

Kobojunkie:


I have some questions for you about your post. Depending on how long you have actually spent living in Lagos state. You mean in the past 20 years, Notice I am giving information to you that you can go look up for your education on the situation in this state, cause I believe people need to do their research to help better move things forward instead of continuing to stay put and wonder why , Did the Governments of past not deliberate in the past? If they did and they decided on this same solution which we know has failed over and over in the state, what makes you believe that this time the same solution will work I would like for you to give me information that you might be privvy to there

My next question, street trading has been a part of the city for decades, heck, I would guess even before you and I were born, why is a car running off the road into these traders suddenly a problem??

I await your reply to my question @Tawa

Kobojunkie:

Look @Laudate,


it is beginning to dawn on me that instead of reading and answering posts as is, you tend to take your own twist and add your own to it to make it seem that one is playing a game or VICTIM AND HERO with you or something. Do you mind not even bother replying my posts if you CANNOT stick to answering as is without trying to play the I CAN READ YOUR MIND EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE 1000's OF MILES AWAY FROM ME game??


I find it very ridiculous that you would see such a simple question as the one I posted to Tawa up there and then run off with your game with it. Please consider me one of those you should not even bother with since you can not even hold a civil conversation without going off topic every single time.

Tee! hee! hee! hee! Are you a psychologist? I am impressed! Good job at your diagnosis. You hit the nail on the head! Good job I say, good job! Please carry on.

almondjoy:


No. But I am yet to see how the money was spent to re-furbish the schools and education in Lagos state. Do you have some libraries and housing to take care of the students? Or did the monies end up in some other people's pockets afterall--as usual?

But we can see the beautification of Lagos with the proliferation of "refuse" mounds all over Lagos from demolishing and more redemolition over the past 47 years of Nigeria's existence.

You are not missing much since we are only repeating ourselves as necessary to educated a set of "slow" learners. Fashola thinks it is a crime for petty traders to litter "beautiful Lagos". Even worse than armed robbery or murder! The real crime is the the beautification of this so-called "Lagos Latrine" ---a heinous crime against humanity!

This is your response? LOL

Kobojunkie:

Look @Laudate,


it is beginning to dawn on me that instead of reading and answering posts as is, you tend to take your own twist and add your own to it to make it seem that one is playing a game or VICTIM AND HERO with you or something. Do you mind not even bother replying my posts if you CANNOT stick to answering as is without trying to play the I CAN READ YOUR MIND EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE 1000's OF MILES AWAY FROM ME game??

I find it very ridiculous that you would see such a simple question as the one I posted to Tawa up there and then run off with your game with it. Please consider me one of those you should not even bother with since you can not even hold a civil conversation without going off topic every single time.

And this is likely to be my own last response to you, on this issue.

The last post I made was a direct response to your own question which was directed at me.
You asked a question, and I answered it. No one tried to 'read your mind,' at least not me. So what is your point?

And how did I run off with "your game on it," to use your own words?? You claimed that: "instead of reading and answering posts as is, you tend to take your own twist and add your own to it to make it seem that one is playing a game or VICTIM AND HERO. . . ." In what way did I ''twist" anything, here? Please spell it out in chapter & verse o! Who started the so-called 'game', and how was it played? And what exactly was uncivil in my conversation? Please point it out in black & white!

Kobojunkie, kindly stick to the facts. If you can't, please don't bother to respond. This is a public forum, where different views are aired. Everyone is free to contribute to any topic, they see fit. If God wanted everyone to have the same opinion, He would have created clones!

MAKE THIS GOOD BY SHOWING ME EXACTLY WHERE YOU GET THE STATEMENTS OUTLINED IN YOUR POST THERE FROM WHAT I POSTED HERE

Kobojunkie:

Let me repeat myself, and I hope you will read my post. These traders HAVE been on these roads for decades now. Selling their wares with the cars and other vehicles right there with them. Why the SUDDEN move to care that a car or something might hit them today as if to say cars have just been introduced or something has changed in the original equation? if you want to put me down so you can play hero, I am good. Just at least ANSWER THE QUESTION AS IT IS WRITTEN, not twist it to earn brownie points or something

laudate:

I have answered the question in each of my previous posts. How many times do you want me to repeat myself. It is RISKY selling along the roadside or on the streets or on railway tracks, because the streets & railway lines were NOT designed for such things in the first place. Can you understand that, or is it too 'twisted' for you to decode?

What is bad, is bad. Don't let us give excuses, and say just because the street traders have been there for a long time, so therefore it doesn't matter, let us leave them there.

( What EXCUSES DO YOU SEE ME GIVING IN MY POST ?? PLEASE POINT THEM OUT FOR ALL TO SEE  )

Someone gave an example of how it was illegal to hawk on the streets of London and other cities. So is it alright to do so, in Nigeria? ( WHERE IN MY STATEMENT THERE DID YOU GET THIS FROM It is a simple question. The fact that it has been with us for a long time, does that now make it right? A lot of vices have been in Naija for ages, does the length of time matter? WHERE IN ALL MY POSTS SO FAR DID YOU GET THIS FROM I MEAN MY CLAIMING IT IS ALRIGHT ?? OR ANYONE AS A MATTER OF FACT DOING THAT   Has length of time ever turned a vice into virtue?

I was at Ikeja railway juction a few years ago, when the Chinese people rehabilitated a few trains and decided to put them in service. Some of those who had turned that part of the railway line, into their trading post merely escaped death by whiskers. A few of them were NOT so lucky. It was a sad sight.

Once, I arrived at a popular bus-stop in Lagos, shortly after a danfo had rammed into some street hawkers, who were barely in their teens. Onlookers gazed on speechless, and some started wailing. Would it have brought them back to life? No.

I don't know how else I can make my points clear enough for you to understand. But while I do not agree with your own views, I respect the fact that you have a right to them, just as I would expect you to respect mine, and stop trying to make a mockery of the whole issue, simply because I do not buy into your particular brand of logic.

Those who see nothing wrong in street trading can now have the floor. Am out. AGAIN, POINT OUT JUST WHERE IN ALL MY POSTS SO FAR I HAVE MADE SUCH A CLAIM

and BY THE WAY ,  NOTICE HOW YOU VEERED off the subject and NEVER ACTUALLY answered the Question that was posed?? 


Do you see what I mean now that it is not about you having a different opinion at all but you basically going off topic and then when I point it out, you make it seems I am the one who is not making sense to you??

Kobojunkie:

MAKE THIS GOOD BY SHOWING ME EXACTLY WHERE YOU GET THE STATEMENTS OUTLINED IN YOUR POST THERE FROM WHAT I POSTED HERE

and BY THE WAY ,  NOTICE HOW YOU VEERED off the subject and NEVER ACTUALLY answered the Question that was posed??


Do you see what I mean now that it is not about you having a different opinion at all but you basically going off topic and then when I point it out, you make it seem I am the one who is not making sense to you??

Tee! hee! hee! hee!

I see you are growing as grey as I am.  I love the fact that we shall grow old gracefully instead of "disgracefully". I think you got your work cut out for you in the months to come.  I think you just found your "mate" or should I say drinking buddy on Nairaland.  I am going in search of mine.   Enjoy!

dcdal:

This is your response? LOL

Yes!  Nothing more to add.  We have been "circling the wagon" for some time now and I think I am coming down with some serious "dizzy spells"  I yield to more powerful members.  Cheers!

Kobojunkie:

[quote author=laudate
I have answered the question in each of my previous posts. How many times do you want me to repeat myself. It is RISKY selling along the roadside or on the streets or on railway tracks, because the streets & railway lines were NOT designed for such things in the first place. Can you understand that, or is it too 'twisted' for you to decode? 

What is bad, is bad. Don't let us give excuses, and say just because the street traders have been there for a long time, so therefore it doesn't matter, let us leave them there.

( What EXCUSES DO YOU SEE ME GIVING IN MY POST ?? PLEASE POINT THEM OUT FOR ALL TO SEE ) 

@Kobojunkie, Your excuse was given in a previous post where you said the traders had been on the road for decades:

Kobojunkie:
Quote from: Kobojunkie on Today at 04:28:52 PM
Let me repeat myself, and I hope you will read my post. These traders HAVE been on these roads for decades now. Selling their wares with the cars and other vehicles right there with them. Why the SUDDEN move to care that a car or something might hit them today as if to say cars have just been introduced or something has changed in the original equation?

So my response to you was: "Don't let us give excuses, and say just because the street traders have been there for a long time, so therefore it doesn't matter, let us leave them there." I can see you have a problem differentiating between my own comments to you, and new questions I raised, based on statements you had earlier made.

You also said:

Kobojunkie:
Someone gave an example of how it was illegal to hawk on the streets of London and other cities. So is it alright to do so, in Nigeria? ( WHERE IN MY STATEMENT THERE DID YOU GET THIS FROM   It is a simple question. The fact that it has been with us for a long time, does that now make it right? A lot of vices have been in Naija for ages, does the length of time matter? WHERE IN ALL MY POSTS SO FAR DID YOU GET THIS FROM I MEAN MY CLAIMING IT IS ALRIGHT ?? OR ANYONE AS A MATTER OF FACT DOING THAT   Has length of time ever turned a vice into virtue?

Please go back & re-read my posts again. I didn't say YOU made this statement, in my last post. My exact words were "some one gave an example, " not "Kobojunkie said " even though you had earlier made a comment that:

Kobojunkie:
"HAwk in the streets of London or even here in Columbus?? You will get the TICKET sent to you by mail with a picture of you caught in the act and if you do not pay up. ."

It was clearly stated in your earlier post no.« #94: Yesterday at 07:50:43 PM ». Do you recall? Or would you like me to break it down further for you??! So please do not ask me again, where I got it from. It came straight from you.

Based on that statement, then I now posed my own questions: "So is it alright to do so, in Nigeria? It is a simple question. The fact that it has been with us for a long time, does that now make it right? A lot of vices have been in Naija for ages, does the length of time matter?" I never claimed that YOU said 'it was alright or anyone as a matter of fact doing that'. . .to use your own words. Learn to differentiate between new questions and old comments, and seek for the spirit of discernment.

My reference to length of time, was actually based on your earlier comment « #108 on: Today at 04:28:52 PM » where you stated that the traders had been there for decades (do you recall?) and that 'suddenly there is now a reference to cars'. Now can you understand all this? I asked those questions, based on statements that had been made earlier on by others, before your last post came up.

Please try and understand my posts, before jumping to conclusions, and claiming that I said you made a particular comment.

Any further questions?

Lagos must develop and there should be no consideration for how to please touts, street hawkers and beggars.

Just 2 days ago, I experienced one of these loiterers get knocked high into the air by a jeep whose driver sped away.

I really don't blame the driver though.


Let's restructure Lagos at all cost.

denex:

Lagos must develop and there should be no consideration for how to please touts, street hawkers and beggars.

Just 2 days ago, I experienced one of these loiterers get knocked high into the air by a jeep whose driver sped away.

I really don't blame the driver though.

Let's restructure Lagos at all cost.

Ohwn-Hon!---We have heard.  Anything new? Kobojunkie--over to you please!

Please, lets stop fooling ourselves.

The building of stalls along roads/highways is illegal to begin with, so if the govt demolishes these stalls, it does not have to compensate anyone regardless if the business owners have ten mouths to feed or not. If you want to do business, do it legally by respecting the law. Don't break the law
and expect some renumeration from the government.

dear all,

let get something straight.

1. what are road design for? vehicular traffic or street trading.
2. Supposing a vehicle failed break what happen to the citizens?- death or life
3. supposing it is death? can u praise the government for allowing street trading.

for crying out loud. let be disciplined for once. i see a lot of dis-ordeliness in lagos as the reason why people think lagos is over populated.
have u noticed one thing that most time u can't find the cause of traffic on the roads?. this is because as soon as u encounter any hitch on the road, no body follow the rules of driving. any available space ( both opposite direction) is taken over by motorists ( from Molue to even posh cars). even the side drain covers? do you know the load difference used for designing the side walks and the roads?

democracy is not demonstration of craze it is a respect for rule and order. freedom has responsibilities.

your freedom as a citizen of lagos has its own responsibilities the environment neatness is one.

your freedom to own a store whereever you like has its own responsibilities- allow people to move freely is one. ( common even in the village foot path are clean and nobody plant on them nor can u even pack your bicycle on these paths) but in lagos right at the centre of the road we trade or even stop passagers. common we can't call oursellves human and behave like this.

your freedom to earn a leaving with any means has its own responsibilities- earning the leaving legimately is one.
it is beacause most people seek for freedom without understanding that there is no freedom with responsibility that we have young men of 18 even 15 sleeping under the bridge.

finally because most people don't understand this or better put are unlawfully. it is now the cardinal responsibilty of any freedom giving government to spelt out laws for governance.

what the lagos state government is doing is her cardinal responsibility in ensuring that the citizens enjoy their freedom and express it with the necessary responsibilities that are attached to it.


i don't see any thing bad in it my only concerning is that some of those places already being used as football field should have being upgraded to good football pitch. maintenance of such places would have being even cheaper if not free and also help create recreational grounds.

I throw my hands up on the @Laudate issue. He does not seem to get it that he does not bother to read before typing out a comeback. How do you answer comebacks that are not even remotely related to what is being discussed.

I have watched us Nigerians do this over and over. Infact I can confidently say that is the main problem in africa. We do not spend time on issues before we leap. We jump to pour sand on the roads to fix it for this minute without considering the next minute and 30 years from now and the consequences of our actions. I do hope the new government is at least wise enough to consider the future as he works cause that has been the mistake of the past and repeating it again is just no longer acceptable by those of us who are sick and tired of the way things have been going on for decades in that place now.