DID not know that this Lagarde was an IQ expert beside being an economic empress. But when she carried out the IQ test on 160 million Nigerians, she did not publish her findings. In her bid to massage SLS' ego she has gone out and insulted 160 million Nigerians. She should be arrested and prosecuted next time she steps into Nigeria.

Sagamite:

The interest the Euro Central Bank pays on its bonds.

That should reflect the risk of the Eurozone failing and being unable to pay the periodic interest and the final principal of the bond. They also reflect monetary policy.

The ECB does not issue bonds; it trades in the secondary markets by buying and selling sovereign bonds but even that is very rare. It had to buy Italian and Spanish bonds this year to stop the cost of borrowing for those countries from rising.

There are talks of the ECB issuing Eurobonds for the 17 Euro countries but this was shot down by Germany because it would mean stronger nations paying for the profligacy of wasteful nations such as the southern European countries. Some Americans also suggested recently that the ECB issue Trichet Bonds similar to the Brady bonds for Latin American countries in the 80s.

The interest rate you are referring to is the rate of financing which sets inter-bank financing rates, mortgage rates, etc
Lastly issuing of bonds falls within Fiscal policy; that is why it is government's that issue bonds and not Central Banks.

Sagamite:


Why don't you give me a brief lecture on how interests rates are set on bonds then?

I am happy to learn if you know a different way. Maybe my understanding of interests rates on security as  something linked to risks is utter tosh. It will me interesting to learn the new paradigm you are proposing from "out of the box".

No 1, wtf are you talking about when you say "We offered returns of 7% on the Euro bonds".

No 2, So what if low interest rates devalue bonds? It devalues it for you to BUY it CHEAP. If it is low, you pay low and hope the interest rate go up. What is your argument?

Please go deeper and explain "out of the box" understanding of the link between interest rates and risk. I would love to know if box is a synonym for mind.

The coupon rate (yield) that you receive on a bond stays the same until you either sell or redeem. It doesn't change for you but it changes for those that want to buy that particular bond.

Permit me to use an example I used on another thread

The general rule on yields is as follows:
Bond priced at:    Then:
A discount    = Coupon Rate < Running Yield < Redemption yield
A premium =   Coupon Rate > Running Yield > Redemption yield
Par Value =    Coupon Rate = Running Yield = Redemption yield

See example of a bond (Ghana) that was issued at $100
A discount ($85) = Coupon rate (8.5%) < Running Yield 10%
A premium ($134.92) = Coupon rate (8.5% > Running Yield 6.3%

The investor that bought this bond would have paid $100 to receive a yield of 8.5%. Suppose that 2 years later, Oil was discovered in Ghana, the risk of Ghana defaulting would have reduced leading the yield to fall to 6.3%. The $100 bond would start trading at $134.94 to new investors but the coupon rate for the original investor would remain 8.5% so a new investor would pay a premium to receive higher interest (8.5) on a bond with a lower yield (6.3).

Now suppose that five years later from the initial offering, there is news that the president of Ghana is stealing all the proceeds of oil. The market would immediately re-access the risk and would demand higher interest rate on that bond or new issue. A new investor would expect a discount to receive a coupon rate (8.5) on a bond that is trading at higher yield (10) but for the original investor, he would continue to receive the coupon rate of 8.5% even though the bonds are trading at 10% yield in the secondary market.

houvest:

DID not know that this Lagarde was an IQ expert. But when he carried out the IQ test on 160 million Nigerians, he did not publish his findings. Na wa for ego-massaging.

I suspect Lagarde was being condescending because of reports by some Nigerian commentators for Sanusi to have been in the running for the IMF job which Lagarde eventually got. Don't forget she is French.

Sagamite:


Again, I will say it.

Educational attainment is not equal to superior intelligence. Being a professor is not a sign one is more intelligent.

I agree actually. But there is really nothing about Sanusi's articles, or his familiarity with Marx, Foucault, or whoever else he chooses to cite in his various articles that is really proof of having higher intelligence than the eggheads at those universities. After all, those professors may have read just as widely, if not more so, but choose to deliberately focus on one area that they can possibly make an impact on.

And those professors have their own articles (and books) too, and when you look up some of them, you see concrete studies and analyses of issues that are relevant to economics and directly relevant to Nigeria's economic development. Not fragments of their political and social philosophy laced with seemingly impressive references to philosophers whose fundamental ideas are inherently questionable (like Sartre, Marx, etc.). Sanusi has too much of the latter and not much of the former. Those who are easily impressed by the "banker as a philosopher" novelty of Sanusi are according him a level of higher intelligence and competence which he almost certainly does not have.

Katsumoto:

The ECB does not issue bonds; it trades in the secondary markets by buying and selling sovereign bonds but even that is very rare. It had to buy Italian and Spanish bonds this year to stop the cost of borrowing for those countries from rising.

There are talks of the ECB issuing Eurobonds for the 17 Euro countries but this was shot down by Germany because it would mean stronger nations paying for the profligacy of wasteful nations such as the southern European countries. Some Americans also suggested recently that the ECB issue Trichet Bonds similar to the Brady bonds for Latin American countries in the 80s.

The interest rate you are referring to is the rate of financing which sets inter-bank financing rates, mortgage rates, etc
Lastly issuing of bonds falls within Fiscal policy; that is why it is government's that issue bonds and not Central Banks.

The coupon rate (yield) that you receive on a bond stays the same until you either sell or redeem. It doesn't change for you but it changes for those that want to buy that particular bond.

Permit me to use an example I used on another thread

The general rule on yields is as follows:
Bond priced at:    Then:
A discount    = Coupon Rate < Running Yield < Redemption yield
A premium =   Coupon Rate > Running Yield > Redemption yield
Par Value =    Coupon Rate = Running Yield = Redemption yield

See example of a bond (Ghana) that was issued at $100
A discount ($85) = Coupon rate (8.5%) < Running Yield 10%
A premium ($134.92) = Coupon rate (8.5% > Running Yield 6.3%

The investor that bought this bond would have paid $100 to receive a yield of 8.5%. Suppose that 2 years later, Oil was discovered in Ghana, the risk of Ghana defaulting would have reduced leading the yield to fall to 6.3%. The $100 bond would start trading at $134.94 to new investors but the coupon rate for the original investor would remain 8.5% so a new investor would pay a premium to receive higher interest (8.5) on a bond with a lower yield (6.3).

Now suppose that five years later from the initial offering, there is news that the president of Ghana is stealing all the proceeds of oil. The market would immediately re-access the risk and would demand higher interest rate on that bond or new issue. A new investor would expect a discount to receive a coupon rate (8.5) on a bond that is trading at higher yield (10) but for the original investor, he would continue to receive the coupon rate of 8.5% even though the bonds are trading at 10% yield in the secondary market.

Abeg, what is Running yield.

PhysicsQED:

I agree actually. But there is really nothing about Sanusi's articles, or his familiarity with Marx, Foucault, or whoever else he chooses to cite in his various articles that is really proof of having higher intelligence than the eggheads at those universities. After all, those professors may have read just as widely, if not more so, but choose to focus on one area that they can possibly make an impact on deliberately.

And those professors have their own articles (and books) too, and when you look up some of them, you see concrete studies and analyses of issues that are relevant to economics and directly relevant to Nigeria's economic development. Not fragments of their political and social philosophy laced with seemingly impressive references to philosophers whose fundamental ideas are inherently questionable (like Sartre, Marx, etc.). Sanusi has too much of the latter and not much of the former. Those who are easily impressed by the "banker as a philosopher" novelty of Sanusi are according him a level of higher intelligence and competence which he almost certainly does not have.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here.

My perception of Sanusi's intelligence is not limited to his economics. I am just talking about general intelligence and that is my assumption of what Lagarde is saying.

Obviously there are tons of economic professors in Nigeria that will know more about economics than him.

I am looking at him as a holistic person in terms of ideas, utterances, actions and problem solving skills.

SapeleGuy:

Dear Sagamite,

Because the IMF/World Banks record in Africa is an ode to failure, I can afford to be crass perhaps not as crass as the purile person who said Sanusi is the most intelligent man in Nigeria.

I know you are an excellent researcher, so I am hopeful that you will be able to come up with the Tangible achievements of IMF in Africa - Good luck in your quest

Best regards
Sapeleguy

Sagamite:

Even if you think IMF have made an "error" before, I would expect you to have done an evaluation of intent and evolution of philosophy.

Is your assessment of "their error" that of wilful intent or local-application ignorance?

Even if your assessment of "their error" in certain past years was the former above, why do you think it will be the same in the future? It is the same people in the IMF in 1980 that are there now and will be there in 2020 and 2050?

Your statements are similar to those I look down on when someone tells me "USA is evil and against the black man because of what happened in the 70s. So that is what they are doing now and I don't trust them. They will never change". I look at the person and wonder how some can say what Nixon did in the 70s is a determinant of what Obama will do today. The person might well tell me that what Lincoln did in 1865 is what Obama would do in 2012.

This whole whiteman is out to destroy us should be above you. You should leave such to cap28 and his psychotic disorder.

Look at your statement I labelled crass again.

You guys can look through or buy and read in full the 1999 book coauthored by none other than Soludo for an overview of how the IMF and SAP failed in Africa:

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=xRaiPlp28hUC&oi=fnd&pg=PR5#v=onepage&q&f=false

Some interesting information there.

Sagamite:

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here.

My perception of Sanusi's intelligence is not limited to his economics. I am just talking about general intelligence and that is my assumption of what Lagarde is saying.

Obviously there are tons of economic professors in Nigeria that will know more about economics than him.

I am looking at him as a holistic person in terms of ideas, utterances, actions and problem solving skills.

I guess I did misunderstand you then.

But even the part in bold, I'm not sure that I would agree with.

Maybe Lagarde is surprised at encountering an African whose apparent intelligence equals or exceeds her own and imagining that he's the most intelligent person in that country is her way of coping with or countering the possibility/realization that the people in that country might generally be more intelligent than she (or other Europeans) would think.

Sagamite:

Abeg, what is Running yield.

Running yield is the yield (interest) on a bond in the secondary market. Running yield is also the same as coupon rate on the date of issue of the bond.

Redemption yield is the IRR for an investor from the date of purchase until the bond is redeemed or matures. I thought I should answer that as well.  

Katsumoto:

Running yield is the yield (interest) on a bond in the secondary market. Running yield is also the same as coupon rate on the date of issue of the bond.

Redemption yield is the IRR for an investor from the date of purchase until the bond is redeemed or matures. I thought I should answer that as well.  

Thanks, men.

PhysicsQED:

I guess I did misunderstand you then.

But even the part in bold, I'm not sure that I would agree with.

Maybe Lagarde is surprised at encountering an African whose apparent intelligence equals or exceeds her own and imagining that he's the most intelligent person in that country is her way of coping with or countering the possibility/realization that the people in that country might generally be more intelligent than she (or other Europeans) would think.

If you put him next to alot of public figures like Jonathan, Sinators, representatives etc he shines like a million star.

The only people in his class that I know are Fashola, Okonjo and maybe the Niger State governor but I don't see them having the guile and maverick of Sanusi. Sanusi is ready and willing to upset whoever to make Nigeria progress and he says what he needs to say to show these.

Katsumoto:

I suspect Lagarde was being condescending because of reports by some Nigerian commentators for Sanusi to have been in the running for the IMF job which Lagarde eventually got. Don't forget she is French.

SLS, been in the running for the IMF job? That is the greatest joke of the century, isn't it? There were ONLY four candidate including Christina Lagarde, NONE was from Africa let alone Nigeria. I really don't know where these Nigerian commentators got their news and source from.

manny4life:


SLS, been in the running for the IMF job? That is the greatest joke of the century, isn't it? There were ONLY four candidate including Christina Lagarde, NONE was from Africa let alone Nigeria. I really don't know where these Nigerian commentators got their news and source from.

Of course he wasn't in the running. But some NIGERIAN commentators were suggesting that he should have been in the running in the same way some British commentators were suggesting that Gordon Brown should have been in the running. Anyone can make noise within their country but would risk being laughed out if they try it internationally.

PhysicsQED -Don't expect Sagamite to even acknowledge this book - It doesn't come from the approved reading list!

Sagamite:

Is your assessment of "their error" that of wilful intent or local-application ignorance?

Their error? more like an encyclopaedia. Old boy you no go take laff kill person. Although i'm sure this is quite unintentional on your part

Sagamite:

Even if your assessment of "their error" in certain past years was the former above, why do you think it will be the same in the future? It is the same people in the IMF in 1980 that are there now and will be there in 2020 and 2050?

Your statements are similar to those I look down on when someone tells me "USA is evil and against the black man because of what happened in the 70s. So that is what they are doing now and I don't trust them. They will never change". I look at the person and wonder how some can say what Nixon did in the 70s is a determinant of what Obama will do today. The person might well tell me that what Lincoln did in 1865 is what Obama would do in 2012.

My guy leave that thing. Nah money we dey talk here - personal and common interests are the primary drivers, race is secondary or even tertiary. The World Bank and IMF were set up for the sole benefit of the Western World in 1945.  What you are writing here is against the DNA of the organisation.

Sagamite:

This whole whiteman is out to destroy us should be above you. You should leave such to cap28 and his psychotic disorder.

Look at your statement I labelled crass again.

These institutions can't promote the betterment of Africa to the their own detriment.  No amount of selling out or 'Uncle Tom' optimism can change that. I like results and could be convinced by successful and proven examples of IMF good practice that you care to reference - if you can find any.

sanusi is suffering from``smartest in the class kid syndrome`` which actually
got IMF chief of a woman confused.

SapeleGuy:

PhysicsQED -Don't expect Sagamite to even acknowledge this book - It doesn't come from the approved reading list!

Their error? more like an encyclopaedia. Old boy you no go take laff kill person. Although i'm sure this is quite unintentional on your part

My guy leave that thing. Nah money we dey talk here - personal and common interests are the primary drivers, race is secondary or even tertiary. The World Bank and IMF were set up for the sole benefit of the Western World in 1945.  What you are writing here is against the DNA of the organisation.

These institutions can't promote the betterment of Africa to the their own detriment.  No amount of selling out or 'Uncle Tom' optimism can change that. I like results and could be convinced by successful and proven examples of IMF good practice that you care to reference - if you can find any.

Now I am not about to absolve the IMF or world bank of any wrongdoing.

The IMF and World Bank are lenders of last resort. When a sovereign nation goes to the IMF, it is because it doesn't have a choice. The IMF and WB will come in and ask the nation to implement a series of programs that is supposed to make the nation leaner and meaner. Afterall, if there was good management in the first place, you wouldn't approach the IMF or WB. The perception of the IMF or WB in most countries where the IMF mandated these programs is usually bad because the citizenry will usually face austere measures. Unfortunately most of the countries that have faced these austere measures are third world countries in Africa, Latin America and Asia. But there are rich world examples as well.

You don't have to go far for rich world examples. Greece, Portugal and Ireland are all implementing IMF mandated Austere measures. The UK, one of the founders, of those institutions had to implement Austere measures in the 1970s. The top rate of tax in the UK was 83% because the Labour governments of Harold Wilson and James Callaghan were profligate. The IMF demanded cuts to public spending and a tax rise because the UK applied for a loan of $4 Billion. Even when Thatcher reduced the top rate to 60% in 1979, she introduced stealth taxes to plug the reduced revenue.

The citizens will feel the effect of IMF policies regardless of whether the policies are implemented correctly or not. The IMF or WB is similar to a loan shark. If you owe money to a loan shark, you can't be sending your kids to the choicest schools and buying fur coats for the wife. The loan shark will demand that you only keep enough to feed your family and put a roof over their heads. If you drive a BMW, he will demand that you sell it and buy a skoda.

Having said all these, I am not ruling out IMF complicity in political intrigues.

Good points well made.

However, cost cutting beyond 2 years is neither sustainable nor a substitute for growth and this is where the Bretton Woods twins fail woefully. I love your analogy - the loan shark doesn't want you to be debt free - it is bad for business.

The loan shark wants you to be dependent, despite promises to the contrary the structural adjustment programmes do not work, IMF simply want their money, hence they come with such draconian terms.

most intelligent aboki

SapeleGuy

Nigeria needs 'No retreat, no surrender' patriots who will put our interests first. You don't need to go to school to have honour or courage.

@ ^^ Very well said***** bro! about the concept of HONOUR and COURAGE. Our so called power and ruling elite lack these qualities hence we are permanently in a mess and vulnerable to all manner of spurious economic ideas by Dr this/ Prof. that .

Mad Hatter

Sanusi most intelligent man in the country. I go die laugh. Joker

Not sure how many Nigerians Christine Lagarde has met to come to this conclusion.

Quite frankly if IMF and World Bank are cozzying up to your Reserve Bank and Finance chieves I think you should be worried!

Between 1914 amalgamation and making Jonascam our president, which one is a greater mistake? I didn't vote for him o.

hustla242: Lagarde also gave a nod of approval to the economic team that has dared to deal with the political hot potato that is the oil subsidy removal.

“It is unpopular, but absolutely necessary and in the interest of the Nigerian economy,” said Sanusi, who Lagarde described as “the most intelligent man in the country.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/imf-chief-warns-nigeria-that-europes-debt-crisis-could-affect-africas-most-populous-nation/2011/12/20/gIQAqy8b6O_story.html

Now, I'm not against Sanusi he's cleaned up the banking sector which was excellent. "The most intelligent man in country"? Inflation in double figures, Naira at record low, borrowing rates at record high?? Yes I not we're not a manufacturing economy blah blah blah, but under Sanusi the economy has actually worsened due to his stringent policies. Islamic banking during such a delicate period Intelligent C'mon!!!

This shows that you only have little knowledge on how economy works. Monetary policy of a country has little impact on nation's economy compare to the fiscal policy. Do you even know the difference between the two? What do you expect in a single year (2011) in a country where almost #3trillion was looted through forex? You need to read more on macro economy, you don't need to go back to school. Okay?

He deserves a nobel prize for his Sanusinomics

Less Oil Money = Education is Evil (Boko Haram)