Snowwy:

@goshen,
You didn't contribute to respond to my post to you.
I only responded based on what your yourself said on having nothing more to contribute, I wonder how what i think matters in this case.
Don't worry, my thoughts shouldn't concern you.
Pleased to meet you, the NL name is Snowwy. (e-hand stretched out for e-handshake).

Kindly read the link i posted, if you care. However, we are brothers in Christ, tithe or no tithe should we disagree on this. I don't have to respond because you want to stay on your point and I want to stay on my point, so we don't have any means of rightly dividing the word of truth. However, am willing to that we look critically into this should you be will to drop your idea and am willing to do same, not arguing but putting line-by-line to see what exactly the word of God says about tithing, not who is right or who is wrong. Then we can go ahead. I am not ashamed of the Gospel neither am I running away. I have found out that we aren't getting anywhere arguing and that is why I stayed out. Ok. (My e-handshake extended also)

goshen360:

Kindly read the link i posted, if you care. However, we are brothers in Christ, tithe or no tithe should we disagree on this. I don't have to respond because you want to stay on your point and I want to stay on my point, so we don't have any means of rightly dividing the word of truth. However, am willing to that we look critically into this should you be will to drop your idea and am willing to do same, not arguing but putting line-by-line to see what exactly the word of God says about tithing, not who is right or who is wrong. Then we can go ahead. I am not ashamed of the Gospel neither am I running away. I have found out that we aren't getting anywhere arguing and that is why I stayed out. Ok. (My e-handshake extended also)

(Takes e-hand and shakes)

Ok. I took a peek at the contents of the link you posted and could already pull out biases from a number of points you made and in some cases your trying to even relate what has nothing to do with tithe to tithing.
One of the biases was where you said and I quote:

In the seventh year, there was to be no planting, no reaping, and no tithing. (Lev. 25:1-7) Do tithe-preaching pastors give their congregation a break every 7 years? I haven’t met one yet.

From that very point, you said there was no planting, no reaping and ofcourse no tithing as there was nothing to tithe on in the first place. The people had no produce in the first place, so what would they have tithed on? This means as long as they reaped, they tithed. Is there any year in the present that people rest and do not work? Do you get the bias in that your statement?

On Abraham, we have discussed at length on this thread. The spoil was the victors - in this case Abraham and his men that fought the battle. His vowing not to take the anything that related to the King of Sodom did not hinder his tithing on it, that was why he told the king of Sodom to take the rest AFTER giving his (Abraham's) men their portion of the spoil. Abraham, therefore, did not take his portion (the funniest thing is that that alone shows the spoil was the victors even without supporting it with other verses) and Melchizedek was not just some random king he decided to give the tithe to. He was the Priest of God. And it was only ONE account that we see that Abraham and Melchizedek met. If we decide to discuss we can compare scripture on the point of Abraham.

From the post-moses era, I also noticed you jumped straight to Malachi totally ignoring the times of Hezekiah and Nehemiah when they tried to steer the people back to God and following His word and also telling the people to give to the Priest & Levites their portion. Of which without mentioning, they knew the portion of the priests/Levites was a tithe.

Even in Malachi, all you did was ask a question? Actually you questioned the word of God concerning the benefits of tithing. When I actually have time to respond to your thread, we can discuss further on this.

Except I missed it, for the new testatment part you never mentioned where Paul talked about the support of those that preach the gospel as I quoted on this thread.


The truth is there is no basis for disagreement. The idea of tithing is not my idea hence it's not a question of me dropping it. It is not a case of who is right or wrong either but as all are persuaded in their hearts based on God's word. We rightly divide the word of truth by studying. Our discussion will make us go back to study and speak life to the hearers.

I am willing for us to discuss, objectively, and not argue on the points you made on your thread, or on this thread. Let us discuss like we would just as brothers in Christ if you care to.
And, if you accept to and before we proceed, state your rules of this engagement.

Cheers.

(EDITED)

Snowwy:


The truth is there is no basis for disagreement. The idea of tithing is not my idea hence it's not a question of me dropping it. It is not a case of who is right or wrong either but as all are persuaded in their hearts based on God's word. We rightly divide the word of truth by studying. Our discussion will make us go back to study and speak life to the hearers.

I am willing for us to discuss, objectively, and not argue on the points you made on your thread, or on this thread. Let us discuss like we would just as brothers in Christ if you care to.
And, if you accept to and before we proceed, state your rules of this engagement.

Cheers.

(EDITED)

Thanks my brother. I know this will take us a very long time (if not months) to do but am also willing we do it, and do it right. It doesn't matter how long as long as we are both willing to do it right.

Our rules and objectives will be:

We must agree on one step or view (comparing both's view) before we go on to another/next issue. In other words, we both look critically at definitions and all things surrounding. Again, we need to know which group you belong. The pre-law category who believe in tithing or the tithing under the law? Also, every of our statement must be backed by scriptures. Our personal idea or interpretation is not needed. We both keep open mind to learn through each other's view. (I leave you to also contribute your rules here alongside with mine)

In my view and understand, Jesus was born under the law and the law (Ten commandments and tithe inclusive) was done away with and no longer needed. I hope to hear your view here and we agree before we can progress. It is going to really interesting as I will definitely learn from you and you will also learn from me. Let's go step-by-step.

The Messiah always referred to fulfilling the Scriptures, that is, the Law, the Psalms and the Prophets. If many Christians haven't got basic things like the Sabbath, the times, assembly/church and the scattered sheep of the House of Israel correctly, how would they not misinterpret tithes, offerings and first fruits? Lawlessness

Remember what Paul wrote about the Bereans, how they compared the Gospel with the Scriptures.

amor4ce:

The Messiah always referred to fulfilling the Scriptures, that is, the Law, the Psalms and the Prophets. If many Christians haven't got basic things like the Sabbath, the times, assembly/church and the scattered sheep of the House of Israel correctly, how would they not misinterpret tithes, offerings and first fruits? Lawlessness

What exactly are you talking about? But the Law and Prophets concerning Jesus as prophesied in the Prophets and laws as shadow of things to come had already been fulfilled when Jesus came and died. What exactly are you saying?

The prophecies concerning the scattered sheep (redemption of Israel) for instance have not yet been fully fulfilled (John 10:52), including His taking away of our hearts of stone and replacing them with hearts of flesh (Deuteronomy 30:6; Jeremiah 3:16; Ezekiel 11:16-20, 36:24-27). Recall the end-time prophecies in the Book of Ezekiel? This was one of the reasons why I referred to the origins of the New Yam festivals and other similar feasts and their comparison to the offering of first fruits.

When He gathers His sheep as prophesied in the Book of Ezekiel, won't the people offer the offerings as in the past? There were some things that God told the people to observe as statutes forever e.g. Exodus 12:14, 17,24,30:21, Leviticus 3:17, 16:9, 23:14, 21, 31; Deuteronomy 11:1. I don't know if it is written that God His people to forsake the Law. Please do not misconstrue my intents, I'll summarize my views with two questions:

If one is of the descendants of Jacob, should that person being under grace see it as an opportunity to violate the Law seeing that he/she is not condemned by it?

If we are not to violate the Law including the Sabbath, can someone who does otherwise be said to be born again?

Remember that David understood grace (Psalm 51:16-17) but also obeyed the Law (Psalm 51:18-19; 112;119:151-152). Abraham understood grace but also walked blameless before God. How could he have walked blameless if he didn't obey God? Furthermore, I've been wondering whether or not the people of the kingdom of Judah including Daniel who also understood grace (Daniel 9:3-20, especially verse 4) could have observed the Law while captive in Babylon.

The Apostles also observed the Sabbath (Acts 18:4).

@Amor4ce
How many of the over six hundred mosaic laws do you observe?

I don't know, but I know I'm under grace. Shouldn't the ones that can be observed be observed? Note that I have not claimed to know the true position concerning this topic; rather I want to learn more.

if paying of tithes is 4 d jews y do som of  u hypocrites who claim 2 b gud xtians obey exodus 20.was dat nt 4 d d jews too.please dnt drag d wrought of God on urselves,it is nt ur place to judge the doings of the MOGS.

did u annoint them?y not obey Ecclesiates 12:13-14.and stop running ur ignorant mouths.

Jokingly:

if paying of tithes is 4 d jews y do som of  u hypocrites who claim 2 b gud xtians obey exodus 20.was dat nt 4 d d jews too.please dnt drag d wrought of God on urselves,it is nt ur place to judge the doings of the MOGS.

Sir, please stop threatening us with touch not my anointed here. All children of God are men and women of God. Pastor is a gift in the body of Christ and they can be corrected or judged by same believer(s) should they err. And again, please don't derail this topic. Let's stay on the subject of tithing. My friend and brother, Snowwy have decided to treat the topic thoroughly again. So please, lets stay focus. God bless you.

amor4ce:

I don't know, but I know I'm under grace. Shouldn't the ones that can be observed be observed? Note that I have not claimed to know the true position concerning this topic; rather I want to learn more.

The laws and the prophets to the best of my knowledge has been summarized in two: Love the Lord your God and Love your neighbor as yourself.

The position of this topic is that, some folks here say we must continue to pay tithes in this christian age while other folks says tithes are no longer required in these christian age.

Why do many who cannot show that they are Aaron's descendants but call themselves priests collect tithes, offerings and first fruits? If Aaron's true descendants are still around is there a possibility that we've been forsaking them and that the MOG who collect the offerings are living as impostors? If such MOGs guilty of this and we have forsaken the Levites (who may have forgotten their roots) the implication would be that tithes, offerings and first fruits still apply but they should be taken to the true priests instead, and if we can't identify these priests today that should not preclude us from resisting these MOGs.

From what I have read in the Bible, if we love God we would keep His commandments (1 John 5:3). My take is that Daniel while in Babylon must have observed the the aspects of the commandments that could be kept. David wrote about grace and the commandments in Psalm 103, verses 17-18 in particular.

@goshen,
sorry for the late response. It's going to be a busy weekend for me & even I might not be responding as I should, but I will try to.
Your question on if I'm off the pre-law or law group can be answered in Romans 3:21-22.

On the contrary Christ did not do away with the ten commandments, Read Matthew 22:34-40.
Read the ten commandments again and see how all relate to the new commandment of loving GOD and your neighbour as yourself.
As I said earlier, Jesus Christ had every opportunity to castigate tithe but He did not. He said do not leave it undone.

You have basically given the ground rules, I can't think of any for now and I'l respond when next I can.

As I said earlier, Jesus Christ had every opportunity to castigate tithe but He did not. He said do not leave it undone.

Yes, do it PER THE LAW.

It boggles my mind to try to understand how anyone with even a little bit of intelligence can think they are following God's tithing commands.

Jesus did NOT say you ought to tithe any way you please just as long as its a tenth of something.

This blog, without any doubt, proves how church goers have been brainwashed into believing a man-made tithing scheme as though it came from God. This is so sad.

NO ONE is following ANY tithing commands or examples given in scripture. Therefore, what you are doing is not Biblical.

@goshen360,
what versions of the bible do you suggest we use or do we compare?
Are we going to deal with the points you made on the thread you created.
Cheers

@ Snowwy,

We stay here to release the knowledge. We will compare as many as possible translations to establish our point. The main point is we are both bible student and we must reason together in the holy Ghost and agree so we continue.

Roman 3:21-22 (New Living Translation)

But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago.

We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

I think this translation is clear enough that our righteousness is not by keeping the requirements of the law even though the law bear without to the righteousness which is faith in Jesus.

Also, we must establish establish every thing we say by biblical verses and we must both agree on what such bible verse is talking about should we need to check as many as possible translations. King James version is sometimes hard but other translations can help simplify matters.

We must also establish where we both stand so as to agree where we kick-off from. I am NOT of the pre-mosaic groups that still support tithe neither am I of the Law group that supports tithe. Where do you stand? let me know and let's agree and that is where we start from.

@ Snowwy,

After we agree on above post, I hope to post how the bible is divided in context and in original scroll format to you apart from the easy readability format of the bible we have today. I will also back up with valid scriptures.

Romans 3:21-22 (KJV)
'21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law & the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference'

Amplified Version
'21 But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets,
22 Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah ). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction,'

NIV
'21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,'

Tithing occured pre-law,  during the law and the prophets as well. Many things that Jesus said, the law bore  witness.
Therefore, if I didn't get wrong, if you are telling me that you are neither of the pre-mosaic group or the law  and the prophets group regarding tithing, then I do not think we have much to discuss, as those bare witness to the support of God's ministers as spoken by Paul.

You mean in the 21st century , there are still people supporting tithes and offerings

Wonders will never end

frosbel:

You mean in the 21st century , there are still people supporting tithes and offerings

Wonders will never end

So you mean you are also against giving offering as well? Wonders indeed.

Old Testament offerings.  Don't just look at my titles for each one.  You need to actually read the verse in context.  We do NONE of these offerings today.  There were all done away with at the cross.

Ex 30:10 -16 Annual atonement
Ex 29:18 Burnt offering
Ex 13:12 First offspring of every womb
Ex 29:40 Drink offering
Lev 3:1 Fellowship offering
Lev 22:18 Freewill burnt offering
Ex 29:41 Grain offering
Num 5:15 Grain offering for jealousy
Lev 5:15 Guilt offering
Num 5:26 Memorial offering
Num 28:14 Monthly burnt offering
Lev 7:37 Ordination offering
Lev 19:24 Praise offering for new fruit trees
Num 19:17 Purification offering
Num 5:15 Reminder offering
Ex 29:14 Sin offering
Lev 7:12 Thank offering

Offering is a principle, I said earlier, don't get into the petty petty of wave offering ,or sin offering. Those are for the Jews . What counts is that you cant say you are worshiper of God without offerings. Offerings and tithes are based on same principles . Principles are eternal.

Principles are eternal.

As long as you have the true principle.  But principles that come from false interpretations are false principles.

What is the "principle" of tithing?

THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe:  to support the Levitical Priesthood.
Principle:  I see no principle for this tithe.  God reserved a tenth of crops and animals from HIS increase and gave it as an inheritance.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.
Purpose of this tithe:  “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”
Principle:  Maybe that people should take time out and get together to eat before the Lord - sort of like we celebrate Thanksgiving in the US.

THIRD TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
Purpose of this tithe:  to feed the poor.
Principle:  To feed the poor.

Now maybe someone should go through all the different offerings in the Old Testament to see if they see any principles that would carry forward.

The New Testament gives us many principles for giving freely.  Why we would need to go back to the Old Testament and try to find principles for giving is beyond me.

In any case, a tenth is not the principle. The tenth, or tithe, was the most legalistic part of the tithing commands.

If you claim the principle of the Levitical tithe was to support "a priesthood," then the principle would be the need to support a priesthood, NOT that it had to be, or should be, a tenth.

What is the principle of our tax system? Is it the percentages, or is it a way to pay for government services?

"Tenth" is an exact, not a principle.

I have a suggestion based on an attempt to use the Berean model of Bible Study. How about starting a Bible Series of threads on each Book of the Bible where attempts would be made at arriving at thorough understandings of each chapter. The first could be on Genesis for like 2 weeks (or whatever acceptable threshold) followed by Exodus and so on in that order with each thread beginning with a compilation of suggested topics for discussion and clarification, and no reference to the next Book such that the Book being discussed would have as its foundation the discussions of previous ones. By the time the New Testament is reached there should have been enough grasp useful in seeing clearly issues in the New Testament like Tithes and the Law. God is merciful and I am sure HE wants to guide us. What do you think?

amor4ce:

I have a suggestion based on an attempt to use the Berean model of Bible Study. How about starting a Bible Series of threads on each Book of the Bible where attempts would be made at arriving at thorough understandings of each chapter. The first could be on Genesis for like 2 weeks (or whatever acceptable threshold) followed by Exodus and so on in that order with each thread beginning with a compilation of suggested topics for discussion and clarification, and no reference to the next Book such that the Book being discussed would have as its foundation the discussions of previous ones. By the time the New Testament is reached there should have been enough grasp useful in seeing clearly issues in the New Testament like Tithes and the Law. God is merciful and I am sure HE wants to guide us. What do you think?

GOD BLESS YOU MY BROTHER. I HAVE CARRIED SAME BURDEN IN MY HEART  FOR LONG BUT I WILL SUGGEST WE DO THE NEW TESTAMENT ONLY RATHER THAN THE OLD. THERE ARE MANY THINGS WE CHRISTIANS NEED TO KNOW BECAUSE MANY FALSE TEACHERS ARE DECEIVING MANY CHRISTIANS TODAY AND IT BASICALLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO SOUND AND DEEP BIBLICAL STUDIES. AM 100% IN SUPPORT OF THESE. ALLOW OTHER TO CONTRIBUTE SO WE DECIDE WHERE DO WE START FROM, OLD OR NEW TESTAMENT. THANK YOU.

Snowwy:


Tithing occured pre-law,  during the law and the prophets as well. Many things that Jesus said, the law bore  witness. Therefore, if I didn't get wrong, if you are telling me that you are neither of the pre-mosaic group or the law  and the prophets group regarding tithing, then I do not think we have much to discuss, as those bare witness to the support of God's ministers as spoken by Paul.

Yes, You didn't get me wrong. Exactly what am saying, I do not believe in pre-law and law of tithing anymore EXCEPT GIVING. I believe in giving. If you say we do not have much to discuss, I will take that from you BUT I believe we have much to discuss except you dont want us to do deep studies. If I dont believe in pre-law, I must be talking from an understand and If you believe in pre-law of tithing, you must be also be talking from understanding. So it is imperative for us to look deeply into this matter and be rooted deep in sound doctrine. My reasons are based on my understanding of the bible based on the above highlighted and I explain below:

The bible in context as a whole is NOT based on how it is divided into laws (Genesis - Deuteronomy), The Prophets (Former: Judges to 2 kings; Major: Isaiah to Ezekiel; Minor 12: Hosea to Malachi) etc. The bible is divided as mentioned just to allow easy accessibility and readability. This is where many people are confused. We often talk about the Pre-law. Where does that fit in the divisions of the bible if the bible division actually starts with the law? This is what I found out in my studies about the division of the bible IN CONTEXT and AS A WHOLE. Allow me to share this with you:

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NIV)

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven

The bible is simply divided into OLD and NEW TESTAMENT. A testament means, a will, contract, agreement or covenant which God established for/with man. Under the Old testament, two (2) periods of time/ages occurred namely: 1. The Patriarch/Father Age (This is what many refer to as Pre-Law; Genesis to Exodus 19). During this time, God spoke directly to the Patriarchs and sometimes through Angel to communicate HIS WILL or testament if you choose.

2. The Israelite/Jewish Age: Started from Exodus 20 where the nation of Israel was formed and ends with the death of Jesus. During this time, a lot of things took place such as, God appointing a law giver, Moses; God appointed Kings; Judges; Prophets etc. and this is the main reason why we have the bible divided into aspects like Prophets, Wisdom writings, etc. It is just for easy accessibility and readability. Imagine the bible merged together without these proper divisions? The way the bible is divided is also different from its chronological orders. Christ being a Jew, was born and lived under this period. For this reason, He had to obey and fulfill all the Jewish Law during His days. With Christ's death on the cross, an end came to the Law of the Jews, all of it was cancelled and taken away.

Hebrews 9: 15-17

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.

3. Christian Age: Beginning with Acts of the Apostles to Revelation. The is the time we are now and it is named after Christ. It includes us today and will continue until Christ returns. Acts 11:26 (NLT).

When he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. Both of them stayed there with the church for a full year, teaching large crowds of people. (It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians.)

Explained is my understand why I dont believed anymore in the pre-law and the old testament which ended after the death of Christ as a whole. It is clear from my explanation that we now have a better covenant or will or testament. The New testament is NOT a book from Matthew to John, they are ending books to the old testament in context when you interpret Hebrews 9:15-17 above into context. I hope this makes it clear to you.

Hence, am willing to discuss the pre-law (Genesis to Exodus 19/20, where the nation of Israel was instituted by God after they left Egypt) with you on tithing if you wish. I guess you also believe the pre-law was later included in the law. If this is what you believe, I have shown you that the old had been taken away and the new established. If you dont believe the pre-law was included in the old that was taken away, then we can still take about it as related to tithing.

garyarnold:

If you claim the principle of the Levitical tithe was to support "a priesthood," then the principle would be the need to support a priesthood, NOT that it had to be, or should be, a tenth.

What is the principle of our tax system? Is it the percentages, or is it a way to pay for government services?

"Tenth" is an exact, not a principle.

Joagbaje cannot really explain what he meant by principle. He does not have a clue. The aim is to confuse the congregation knowing they are never going to ask for explanation.

goshen360:

I guess you also believe the pre-law was later included in the law. If this is what you believe, I have shown you that the old had been taken away and the new established. If you dont believe the pre-law was included in the old that was taken away, then we can still take about it as related to tithing.

Snowwy believes pre-law tithing continues to operate outside of the mosaic law. This is something i have been trying to get snowwy to understand. Pre-law tithing was either nailed to the temple wall or was subsumed into the mosaic law (levitical tithe). If Melchi had surfaced at the time the mosaic law was in operation, he would not be receiving tithe unless he was from the tribe of Levi.

@goshen360,
since you said I didn't hear you wrong then I maintain there's no need for discussion. I read a complete bible and not just a part.
I also assume you are saying nothing in the old testament is applicable for us today.
You talk like 'giving' was coined from the new testament only.
When the Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, gave his son to GOD, gave to strangers and the Israelites brought all their tithes, offerings of thanks, helped and gave alms to the less priviledged, gave in respect to building the temple, gave to prophets, gave to family etc, what were they doing then?

You are trying to over-spiritualise things.
Even Jesus talked about the 'measure you give'.

If they could give so much in the OT, we have no excuse as the OT beareth witness.

If they could give so much in the OT, we have no excuse as the OT beareth witness.

Keep in mind, the children of Israel, except for the tribe of Levi, were GIVEN without any charge, their land with everything on it. No rent to pay. No mortgage payment. And it was ONLY those who were given all this that were commanded to tithe. No one else tithed. So don't go comparing what "they" did in the Old Testament without also acknowledging what was given to them as their inheritance.

Don't include what was REQUIRED to be paid or given and compare that with how much one should freely give today. You are comparing apples to oranges.

In the Old Testament, much of what was paid or given went to run the theocracy. Now we pay taxes to run the government. So to compare apples to apples, you would have to include everything we pay in taxes. For me, that includes US Federal Income Tax, California State Income Tax, State and Local sales tax on purchases, gas tax, property tax with many additional assessments, hotel tax when I stay at a hotel, utility taxes, telephone fees and taxes, etc.

Zikkyy:

Joagbaje cannot really explain what he meant by principle. He does not have a clue. The aim is to confuse the congregation knowing they are never going to ask for explanation.

I hardly read your posts they are empty .

Snowwy believes pre-law tithing continues to operate outside of the mosaic law. This is something i have been trying to get snowwy to understand. Pre-law tithing was either nailed to the temple wall or was subsumed into the mosaic law (levitical tithe). If Melchi had surfaced at the time the mosaic law was in operation, he would not be receiving tithe unless he was from the tribe of Levi.

Stop talking about what you don't know, rather sit and watch ,

@snowy,
I never cease to be amazed at your ability to endure this much on this issue. Many righteous men have left the argument seeing it as waste of time .but at least some individuals are still learning one or two things from you.

Snowwy:

@goshen360,
since you said I didn't hear you wrong then I maintain there's no need for discussion. I read a complete bible and not just a part.
I also assume you are saying nothing in the old testament is applicable for us today.

The principles if God transcend dispensations . Either they originate under the law or before the law. These are spiritual truths.  People just ignorantly give a blanket assumption .why does paul make reference to certain things in the law.

The things done away in the law are the things Christ fulfilled. Tithe has no connection with Christ death. The only connection is his priesthood. Which is forever . As long as there's a high priest ,there must be tithing.

You talk like 'giving' was coined from the new testament only.
When the Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, gave his son to GOD, gave to strangers and the Israelites brought all their tithes, offerings of thanks, helped and gave alms to the less priviledged, gave in respect to building the temple, gave to prophets, gave to family etc, what were they doing then?.

THANK YOU. If they are against tithing but believe in offerings . It's hypocrisy. And if they don't believe in giving offerings to God. Then what is their sacrifice.  "FREEWILL" it's also part of old testament principle. You can't chose one part to take.