mjconcept: That theory of evolution is just a simple crap proposed by a troubled mind in the name of science.

Your god never explained to you why you are black.So, evolution stands to be closer and more explainable in reality.

thehomer:

You didn't answer any of my questions. Here they are again.

1. Does this God of yours have a name?
2. Why do you believe in this particular God instead of the others?

People aren't created, they are born. Introducing the word "creation" here is what causes the confusion.

When you were born, I am sure you don't know your parent are your parent. You believed they were your parent when you got to an age and you are told. what of if you are adopted. The book, Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth told us of God. Even all religion pointed to the fact that there is a God behind all creatures. One great atheist once said he did not believe in existence of God but believe in the person that design the thumb. At another time, was faced with life problems which she can't solve and knowingly or unknowingly shouted "oh my God" Pls which God is she reffering to?

Enigma:



Are you tryng to argue that someting called a doctrine or belief is outside the scope of religion or theory?

Meanwhile, I see you are silent on the other point that evangelical atheism in particular has been proven conclusively to be a religion ---- both intellectually and legally/judicially.

Hmmm. . . Theory/doctrine is not = religion.

No matter how evangelical some atheists are, its still not a religion, the same way Stoics, communists aren't religious. Its just a position as theism which is not a religion either. Religion goes beyond a one dimensional position, it involves dogma, morality, faith. .

snthesis:

**typing really really slowly** when i make reference to "you" i expected with the level of intelligence spewing around here that the "You" refers to our specie, Man"

"humans aren't created, they are born" and who gave birth to the 1st human?


are u saying u are a piece of stone

anyways i am teaching based on everyday analogies the "intelligent " folks here can relate with, no need to talk on Virtual particles, radioactive decay, photons bla bla bla.

i defined d word - God.
and gave an explicit relationship between God and the creation.

if you "Man" create a robot
you "Man" are a god unto the robot
and the robot is ur creation.

i also gave an analogy on the attributes of a creation
anything that was not self-made is a Creation and has a Maker, a God.

and i asked simply were you "Man" self made?
if you say yes, then man is a God unto itself, otherwise Man is a creation with a Maker, a God.

I disagree with you. Man is not an object of creation. Ok prove otherwise.

mazaje:

He spoke to you? What language did he speak and how did his voice sound like. Which accent did he use?. . .What did he tell you and how did what he told you change your life, did it make your life in any way better than all the people around you?. . .Is this change unique to only you?. . .

I need a book that can convince me if possible to become an atheist. solution4sucess@yahoo.com

Kay 17:

Hmmm. . . Theory/doctrine is not = religion.

No matter how evangelical some atheists are, its still not a religion, the same way Stoics, communists aren't religious. Its just a position as theism which is not a religion either. Religion goes beyond a one dimensional position, it involves dogma, morality, faith. .

And so too evangelical atheism involves dogma, morality, faith . .

Anyway, I say again that it has been proven conclusively that evangelical atheism is a religion --- from both intellectual and legal/judicial perspectives.

Interesting thread even though I am not an atheist.

I consider myself a deist, in which reason and observation of the natural world is my philosophy. I do believe in a Supreme Architect, but I believe he/she/it rarely intervenes in human affairs or suspends the natural laws of the universe.

" D fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" Psalm 14:1
Christ is waiting patiently for u to confess ur sins &accept His FREE salvation, which cost Him His life @calvary. He won't force u, He only wants u 2come by choice. The Lord is long-suffering towards us, not willing that any should perish,but that all shd come 2repentance. 2peter 3:9. How I wish u'll get wiser, make d right choice &save ur soul @last.
I pray 4u!

[quote author=Idango]

My friend you need to meet him because he truly exists and he is yearning to meet you. True. You cant meet him when you are outside saying there is no God. "For those who come to him must beleive that he is and he is the rewarder of those who deligently seek him" you must first beleive he exists before he show his face

Like I said, I don't want to meet him. I have no use for him and considering all the atrocities he committed according to the bible he should be on trial. I can not worship that god even if he really exist.

I m not suffering from any Schizophrenia, I have experienced God personally, I have received protection from God, I have received divine healing from God and i have personal fellowship with him. Its not an experience you will want to miss if you know of it.

Ok then, but still check with a doctor (Psychiatrist). You never can tell.

You too can experience him. Just in the privacy of your room kneel down and talk to him.Tell him you have being led astray all your life and that you are coming home now. Tell him to forgive you and take over your life, mean it from your heart and you will be surprised at the your experience.

Done that many years ago, no result. Now though, I don't need him or his forgiveness, I am doing just fine on my own. But if he is looking for something to do he should the hospitals, there are people suffering and dying there everyday.

"I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins." Lev; 26:21

Kay17,ea7,harakiri,mazaje,all4naija etc,you guys are just so dumb to realised that things cant just exist without a beginner&that there must be a starting point of our existence.
1. Let us use our life as an example,our life started one day&we too,if likes can create another life by procreation.
2.The fact that we had many inventors&initiators on earth should be enough reason for you realise that something could be caused and not cause by something else.
3.If you guys really understand human spirit/spirituality and all that is entail,you wont denied the existence of one and only creator which is called God.

melek: " D fool hath said in his heart, there is no God" Psalm 14

well, its obvious only a fool is capable of such a thing. The heart only pumps blood around the body. It is not capable of thought. Thus the bible is wrong in assuming the heart can carryout thought. The brain is the only organ capable of that. This is proof that the bible is the handiwork of men with limited knownledge and was not inspired by an all-knowing god.

[quote author=D sage]Kay17,ea7,harakiri,mazaje,all4naija etc,you guys are just so dumb to realised that things cant just exist without a beginner&that there must be a starting point of our existence.

So how did god begin ? How did he or she come into existence ?

D sage: Kay17,ea7,harakiri,mazaje,all4naija etc,you guys are just so dumb to realised that things cant just exist without a beginner&that there must be a starting point of our existence.
1. Let us use our life as an example,our life started one day&we too,if likes can create another life by procreation.
2.The fact that we had many inventors&initiators on earth should be enough reason for you realise that something could be caused and not cause by something else.
3.If you guys really understand human spirit/spirituality and all that is entail,you wont denied the existence of one and only creator which is called God.

Lol. The second someone asks you what is the starting point of the creator, you will just turn around and make an exception to this very point.

1. The substance that we are made of (Energy/Matter) seems to have always existed. No need to create something from nothing if there has always been something. Furthermore, events in our universe appear to be statistical(quantum mechanics) so the universe posses some level of a-causality.
2. Does this not already violate your initial claim. If you make an exception for this thing called "God", why not make it for the rest of the universe. After all God cannot create something from nothing either.
3. As far as I can tell no one seems to understand human spirit/spirituality because no seems to be able to even define what they are supposed to be. No one can even define what "God" supposed to mean for that matter. People just say the word pretending like everyone else just knows the meaning.

Animals and human beings crawled out of nothing and started believing in a God that did not create them? Aren't you boys quite brilliant with your questions and logic.

Keep going around in circles you hear.

maclatunji: Animals and human beings crawled out of nothing and started believing in a God that did not create them? Aren't you boys quite brilliant with your questions and logic.

Keep going around in circles you hear.

maclatunji: Animals and human beings crawled out of nothing and started believing in a God that did not create them? Aren't you boys quite brilliant with your questions and logic.

Keep going around in circles you hear.

How many times will I keep telling this one that there are many Gods. . .The Gods are many. . .Animals and human beings were created from rock by then pantheon of Greek gods. . .keep believing in one god of the arabs that does not exist you hear. . .The gods are many. . .

Enigma:

And so too evangelical atheism involves dogma, morality, faith . .

Anyway, I say again that it has been proven conclusively that evangelical atheism is a religion --- from both intellectual and legal/judicial perspectives.

Proven by who? You and your delusions?. . .

Hello fellow forumites,well what iam going to discuss is a slight diversion from what is on board but it is still in line cos people are just hating and killing them self in the name of religion most especially in this part of the world.I see religion generally as an accident of birth i.e islam,christianity,buduhism,hinduism,traditional religion e.t.c come to think of it e.g your parent happen to be from enugu state,there are 99.9% chance that you will be a christian,likewise if your parent are from sokoto 99.9% chance that your will be a muslim,so my dear you can see that actually where your parent are from is a 99.9% determinate of your religion so pls my brothers and sisters let be tolerant & respect ourselve no matter our reliugious difference pls be good anywhere you find yourself dont be a fanatic.

maclatunji: Animals and human beings crawled out of nothing and started believing in a God that did not create them? Aren't you boys quite brilliant with your questions and logic.

Keep going around in circles you hear.

The Quran responds to your question in ch22 v5:-
O mankind! If you are in doubt about the Resurrection, then verily We have created (Adam) from dust, then from a mixture of drops of male and female sexual discharge we created (adam's offspring), then from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood) then from a little lump of flesh - some formed and some unformed (as in the case of miscarriage) - that We may make clear to you (i.e. to show you Our Power and Ability to do what We will). And We cause whom We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed term, then We bring you out as infants, then that you may reach your age of full strength. And among you there is he who dies young, and among you there is he who is brought back to the old age, so that he knows nothing after having known. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down water (rain) on it, it is stirred (to life), and it swells and puts forth every lovely kind.
( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #5)

all4naija: Your god never explained to you why you are black.So, evolution stands to be closer and more explainable in reality.

THE QURAN HAS AN ANSWER FOR YOU (ch16v13):-

And whatsoever He has created for you on the earth of varying colours. Verily! In this is a sign for people who remember.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #13)

Allah (GOD), He's the First without a beginning and the Last without an ending. He'originated everything from nothing, yet He was not created. He creates something from nothing. He withdraws the day from the night and the night from the day. He brings the living out of the dead (turns sperm into human being), and He brings the dead out of the living (turns a living being into a corpse)

mantraa: @idango
How do you know that you are worshipping the right god?
You did not choose where you were born. If you were born somewhere else you would probably be worshipping a different god.

Have a look at the different imaginary gods that people believe in, than ask yourself if you think your imaginary god is gonna send them all to hell just for being born into a different culture?

AFRICAN GODS
AUSTRALIAN GODS
AZTEC GODS
CARIBBEAN GODS
CELTIC GODS
CHINESE GODS
EGYPTIAN GODS
FINNISH GODS
GREEK GODS
INCAN GODS
INDIAN GODS
JAPANESE GODS
MAYAN GODS
MESOPOTAMIAN GODS
MIDDLE-EASTERN GODS
NATIVE AMERICAN GODS
NORSE GODS
OCEANIC GODS
ROMAN GODS
SLAVIC and BALTIC GODS
SOUTH AMERICAN GODS
SOUTH-EAST ASIAN
TIBETAN GODS

The're all there
http://www.godchecker.com/

THE QURAN GIVES YOU AN ANSWER (CH22V73):-

O mankind! A similitude has been coined, so listen to it: Verily, those GODS on whom you call besides Allah, cannot create a fly, even though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly snatches away a thing from them, they will have no power to release it from the fly. So weak are the seeker (worshipers) and the sought(fake GODS).
( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #73)

@jack65.Fine,if you look at the univers as a whole&the histories,you would realised that notting had ever gone smoothly without any form of obstacle/interuption.And the questions about whether God exist or not is esoteric in nature,infact its beyond human knowledge or ideal.On that basis,we theist concluded that once we ve seen the evidence of obstacle in any smooth process right here on earth,definitely there must be a point of interuption in the process of human existence.That is,if we continue to look for the causes of the cause of the cause,and didnt find it,we must assumed that something is caused and not cause by any other thing(God).
@Idehn. 1. How do you arrived at such claims?
2.did what i wrote actually contradicted?No,what i was saying is that,if ordinary living creatures created by God is capable of inventing/initiating an ideas,why keep doubted him as alpha and omega of our existence.
3.fine,when you knew that spiritually is beyond human understanding,then why are you still doubting the existence of a supernatural forces(God).

mazaje:

He told you he approves of you being his advocate, when?. . . .


God is said to be all powerful and can do all thing by those that put forth the hypothesis, if that is true then he should be able to answer people's questions himself. . .|He won't need you here to be making his case for him if the hypothesis were true. . .

The Quran states;-

And those who have no knowledge say: "Why does not Allah(God) speak to us or why does not a sign come to us?" So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are alike, We have indeed made plain the signs for people who believe with certainty.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #118)

Man is created in haste. I will show you My Sign. So ask Me not to hasten (it).
( سورة الأنبياء , Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21, Verse #37)

I am trying realy hard not to believe heaven and hell are illusions created to keep d world in check. Cus I think d only thing still allowing ppl have little sanity in d fear of after death.

I am trying realy hard not to believe heaven and hell are illusions created to keep d world in check. Cus I think d only thing still allowing ppl have little sanity is d fear of after death.

thehomer:

This is false. If an atheist used to believe but stopped believing due to the lack of evidence, why do you think he wouldn't start believing again if the evidence were available?

The Quran states in Ch2v28:-

How can you disbelieve in Allah(God)? seeing that you were dead and He(allah) gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return (See V.40:11)
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #28)

OR DO YOU DOUBT RESURRECTION? The Quran states in Ch41v39:-

And among His Signs, that you see the earth barren; but when We send down water (rain) to it, it is stirred to life and growth. Verily, He Who gives it life, surely, is Able to give life to the dead (on the Day of resurrection). Indeed He is Able to do all things.
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #39)

mazaje: We are told that god can do all things but I say that is a lie. . .I know some thing that no god can do. . .My question is why can not god heal an amputee and restore his/her amputated limbs back??

The Quran states:-

Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the Help of Allah(God)?" Yes! Certainly, the Help of Allah is near!
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #214)

If an injury has touched you, be sure a similar injury (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allah(God) may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allah likes not the wrong-doers.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #140)

And that Allah may test the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #141)

Logic Mind: @snthesis

Please tell me one thing, only one thing that god can do. something verifiable. not some silly answer like he will make me wake up or make the sun shine. Something unique that he can do that we can witness.

Please tell me what you think about the dinosaurs and how they tie up with the creation story in your holy book.

Many thanks

The Quran states;-

And those who have no knowledge say: "Why does not Allah speak to us, or why does not a sign come to us?" So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are alike, We have indeed made plain the signs for people who believe with certainty.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #118)

Do they then wait for anything other than that the angels should come to them, or that your Lord (Allah) should come, or that some of the signs of your Lord should come! The day that some of the signs of your Lord do come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good through his Faith. Say: "Wait you! we (too) are waiting."
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #158)

I shall turn away from My Signs those who behave arrogantly on the earth, without a right, and (even) if they see all the proofs, they will not believe in them. And if they see the way of righteousness, they will not adopt it as the Way, but if they see the way of error, they will adopt that way, that is because they have rejected Our signs and were heedless (to learn a lesson) from them.
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #146)

Eleeesi:
When you were born, I am sure you don't know your parent are your parent. You believed they were your parent when you got to an age and you are told. what of if you are adopted.

What does this have to do with anything?

Eleeesi:
The book, Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth told us of God.

What book is that? If you're talking about the Christian book, then you need to tell me why I should believe what was written in that book. It seems as if God didn't understand what he is claimed to have created.

Eleeesi:
Even all religion pointed to the fact that there is a God behind all creatures.

There are religions without beliefs in Gods.

Eleeesi:
One great atheist once said he did not believe in existence of God but believe in the person that design the thumb.

So what?

Eleeesi:
At another time, was faced with life problems which she can't solve and knowingly or unknowingly shouted "oh my God" Pls which God is she reffering to?

Have you heard about languages and exclamations? If someone exclaims "Go to hell", it doesn't mean that they are commanding others to literally go there.

D sage: @jack65.
@Idehn. 1. How do you arrived at such claims?
2.did what i wrote actually contradicted?No,what i was saying is that,if ordinary living creatures created by God is capable of inventing/initiating an ideas,why keep doubted him as alpha and omega of our existence.
3.fine,when you knew that spiritually is beyond human understanding,then why are you still doubting the existence of a supernatural forces(God).

1.The conservation laws(matter/energy/momentum) seem to imply that each of their existences are immutable. Since we and everything else in the universe we can interact with are composed of matter/energy, their is no need for anything to come from nothing. The statistical aspects of the universe, I derive from the statistical nature of quantum mechanics. Devices like tunneling diodes and lasers for example rely on this fact. It appears to me that events in the universe are at some level a-causal.

2.I misunderstood what you were trying to say, my mistake. My point however is the same. If everything needs a creator(I do not believe it does), how can anything be a first cause.

3.I have no idea what supernatural forces even means beyond peoples misunderstandings of nature. For example, in this forum there are people who insist that sleep paralysis, a very common and explainable biological phenomenon, is "supernatural" and caused by "spirits". Neither term is ever meaningfully/coherently/clearly defined. They just get thrown around repeatedly assuming everyone in the world has a definition(mention the same one) for them. Whenever terms like spirit, supernatural, God etc. . . are use I must insist on first providing a meaningfully and coherent account/definition of what they are.

ivoice247:

THE QURAN HAS AN ANSWER FOR YOU (ch16v13):-

And whatsoever He has created for you on the earth of varying colours. Verily! In this is a sign for people who remember.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #13)

Does this seem like an answer to you? This is the reason Theists are looked down upon.What he has created FOR you is different from you. Indeed, even created in varying colours does not support any fact why you are black. Color of skin as among one of the characteristics of adaptation in human is not created. So, you expect me to believe this crap and accept that is fact. Please, question what you don't understand than be comfortable with unreasonable quote from you primitive book. I am glad science is finding better answers to debunk this error in human history called religion.

" Dark skin evolved pari passu with the loss of body hair and was the original state for the genus Homo. Melanin pigmentation is adaptive and has been maintained by natural selection. Because of its evolutionary lability, skin color phenotype is useless as a unique marker of genetic identity. In recent prehistory, humans became adept at protecting themselves from the environment through clothing and shelter, thus reducing the scope for the action of natural selection on human skin..." Quoted from Web of Science.

NB: Science may not be perfect and all encompassing but it's more pragmatic and reasonable than doctrines input into people with baseless ideologies.

That idiot quoting the quran, harry potter says'shut up!'. Why do I have to beleive your story book.