ekt_bear:

Well, not everyone's ambition in life is to save Nigeria. Most people, they are interested in the benefit of their own self and family, not abstract entities/concepts like Nigeria.

So it is pretty damn useful (for both them and the US)...just not necessarily useful to Nigeria.

Oh well....

CyberG: Does any data exist to compare for Asians, Africans, Caucasians, Native, etc? This will be a good reference point. I believe the major reason why Nigeria does not get the right credit it deserves is the totally useless, generational bad leadership, poor followership leading to a poor image in the international community. Imagine if Nigeria actually is "working" well and progressing as a country? Imagine we're minting bright Ph. Ds, Masters, Bachelors, Professors, nobel laureates, technologists and technicians, competent administrators who are coming together to form a critical mass inventing things in Nigeria, building the infrastructure, expanding international trade, creating rival educational systems to the best in the world, excellent healthcare, a growing and strong military, an effective forward-looking foreign policy, technology, expansive, mechanized agriculture and also given birth to many smart kids to take over, we will be getting a lot more credit.

Yes, it does exist. What I wrote above is based on what I read from a data that exists. Its been long anyway so I'm not sure I can find it, the funny thing is how an Asian tried to explain African performance away.

ekt_bear:

Well, not everyone's ambition in life is to save Nigeria. Most people, they are interested in the benefit of their own self and family, not abstract entities/concepts like Nigeria.

So it is pretty damn useful (for both them and the US)...just not necessarily useful to Nigeria.

You're right. Most Nigerians are really after their personal needs and not exactly what they can offer to Nigeria that has not offered anything to them. I'm inclined to do something for my village than Nigeria. Anyways, indirectly it still helps.

You people are arguing about semantics, but I have to agree with Mallam ekt_bear, that most of you people here on NL and abroad are upper class Nigerians.

How many of the 100million people can afford 3 square meals, not to talk of affording to access the internet, and much more going abroad for further education? You elitists here on NL, are suffering from a dangerous disconnect and ignorance of the human conditions in your own country.

How many of the 20million people in Lagos can afford or will ever have the opportunity to travel and/or visit Abuja/Kaduna or Port Harcourt? Ponder the question and see that you are from the upper class of Nigeria.

Why should Nigerian immigrants who attained an education in the United States go back to Nigeria where their talents and expertise will not be rewarded? I do not understand that mindset. Nigerian communities in the United States are here to stay like the other immigrant communities before us. When people immigrate from their home countries, they do so not with the mindset of going back, but to start a new life in another land.

The United States will continue to attract immigrants not only from Nigeria, but countries from around the world.

CyberG:

This piece of shaite Odedee1 must think it is welcome among cadavers, maggot eaten dead animals talk less of humans! What a biiiigggg fat sore old loser since before 1967 and yet it still remains a core loser! Why has it (dede1) not been buried alive? Well, the time is nigh for your old wide flat nosed obdurate head to be used to carry sacrifices to amadioha you hateful soul.

FYI, it makes it (dedeaccursed) mad to know I am right at the top of the group mentioned. Multiple degrees, inventions, publications that will be googled till eternity and how old am I?

It also pains it that I just painted the imperfect but great country of Nigeria so glowingly, no part of Nigeria will want to secede anywhere else and that neighboring countries might actually want to join such a Nigeria. Ha! Dedefool Tribalist is dead and rotten yet Nigeria remains. The East, West, North and every people remains a united country. . .lol. Keel over and die old dedenbula!

Wetin concern the agberodende1 with the Internet I pay for? Efulefu. Anuofia. Onye beribe.

Any fool such as you who still holds abode at Peckham, London can never be on top of anything not even street pickpocket. If I had to judge a character from the above incoherent drivel, I would easily say an insane maggot. It will amount to ultimate compliment to call you efulefu or Anuofia. If this scenario shall be the case, what the hell is reserved for a domesticated monkey?

ndu_chucks: You people are arguing about semantics, but I have to agree with Mallam ekt_bear, that most of you people here on NL and abroad are upper class Nigerians.

How many of the 100million people can afford 3 square meals, not to talk of affording to access the internet, and much more going abroad for further education? You elitists here on NL, are suffering from a dangerous disconnect and ignorance of the human conditions in your own country.

How many of the 20million people in Lagos can afford or will ever have the opportunity to travel and/or visit Abuja/Kaduna or Port Harcourt? Ponder the question and see that you are from the upper class of Nigeria.

I'm not "upper class" how about that? Most of us went through fire and brimstone to be where we are today and to simplify it with "upper class" would be injustice to the pain we put in. Most of us had no one in the US before we took the plunge.

Sam_Ikenna:

I'm not "upper class" how about that? Most of us went through fire and brimstone to be where we are today and to simplify it with "upper class" would be injustice to the pain we put in. Most of us had no one in the US before we took the plunge.

You are in the minority buddy. Such happens to war victims (not that I am assuming that you were one), I'm glad you survived and are doing well.

ndu_chucks: You people are arguing about semantics, but I have to agree with Mallam ekt_bear, that most of you people here on NL and abroad are upper class Nigerians.

How many of the 100million people can afford 3 square meals, not to talk of affording to access the internet, and much more going abroad for further education? You elitists here on NL, are suffering from a dangerous disconnect and ignorance of the human conditions in your own country.

How many of the 20million people in Lagos can afford or will ever have the opportunity to travel and/or visit Abuja/Kaduna or Port Harcourt? Ponder the question and see that you are from the upper class of Nigeria.

The above assertion is far from the truth. Do you know how many times I have been laughed off on the streets in Owerri for extending ordinary road courtesy to a fellow road user? It is not necessarily true that most Nigerians in USA are drawn from the pool of upper class Nigerians. You are known to have argued against citing International airport in eastern region of Nigeria. Nigeria needs to be completely erased and redrawn.

Most people in USA have not moved beyond the boundary of towns or counties because they do not need to move.

Callotti:

Bravo!

Bravo!

Brrrrrrrrrrrrravo!!!

Waiting for part 2 of this HEAVY CUSS!

My original post had nothing to do with it (Dendebula1) but it attacked the post, what else would anyone expect than put him in his place? How can anyone complain about another's internet bandwidth for which he neither pays or party to? Well, the only reason for his tirade was to extend the perpetual anger for anything in favor of Nigeria, no seccessionist, so the loser attacked the post. What am I supposed to do?

Sam_Ikenna:

Yes, it does exist. What I wrote above is based on what I read from a data that exists. Its been long anyway so I'm not sure I can find it, the funny thing is how an Asian tried to explain African performance away.

Thanks abeg! I would really like to see it if you could point me to the data.

Dede1:


Any fool such as you who still holds abode at Peckham, London can never be on top of anything not even street pickpocket. If I had to judge a character from the above incoherent drivel, I would easily say an insane maggot. It will amount to ultimate compliment to call you efulefu or Anuofia. If this scenario shall be the case, what the hell is reserved for a domesticated monkey?

It's still wriggling, this snake "Dede1", is still in the throes of death. Who will put it out of its misery? Why did the Nigerian military spare any part of your cell in the civil war? Your ilk should have been utterly vaporized and made to watch yourself go off in smoke - poof! Knock it off useless object with a flat head! in the days of the african gods, objects like you were sacrificed to the gods with every small piece divided and taken to the four corners of the okija forest. Loser old man. . .leave me alone paedophile!

Dede1:


The above assertion is far from the truth. Do you know how many times I have been laughed off on the streets in Owerri for extending ordinary road courtesy to a fellow road user? It is not necessarily true that most Nigerians in USA are drawn from the pool of upper class Nigerians. You are known to have argued against citing International airport in eastern region of Nigeria. Nigeria needs to be completely erased and redrawn.

Most people in USA have not moved beyond the boundary of towns or counties because they do not need to move.

How many of the 100-150 million Nigerians do you think have the opportunity to own or drive a car, to the point of being able to extend road courtesy. You must belle full first before you begin find motor to drive. You sir belong to the said upper class. Your only flaw is the limitation you place on your potentials, by your continuous and foolish call for the disintegration of our dear country.

ndu_chucks:

You are in the minority buddy. Such happens to war victims (not that I am assuming that you were one), I'm glad you survived and are doing well.

I think most Nigerians are naturally resillient and would defy the worst odds to survive - that is what our leaders have failed to tap into.

Sam Ikenna.

Not too sure how old you are. But are you saying that your parents were not amongst the upper echelon of education in Nigeria?

The problem is I think some of you are defining "elite" only by the amount of money in someone's pocket.

But the way the world has been for the past 30 or 40 years of so, this isn't the case...if you have brains but no money, you can easily earn an excellent salary.

If your parents went to somewhere like UNN or whatever the best Eastern Nigerian schools were at that time, then I'm not sure it is fair to pretend as if you are just an ordinary guy, or the child of ordinary folk

Not many were able to do what your parents did..

I think part of the thing here is that a lot of us like to downplay certain advantages we've had to sell the story better.

Oppressed immigrant from Africa rising to the upper echelon of US society is a lot more compelling a story than dude whose parents were pretty well-off relative to the median/mean in his country and who were easily in the top 1% or 5% as far as education goes

How many of you NLs or Nigerians who have made it in the US/Europe/etc (or are in the process of making it) have illiterate parents? Impoverished parents? Parents who've never been to university?

ndu_chucks:

How many of the 100-150 million Nigerians do you think have the opportunity to own or drive a car, to the point of being able to extend road courtesy. You must belle full first before you begin find motor to drive. You sir belong to the said upper class. Your only flaw is the limitation you place on your potentials, by your continuous and foolish call for the disintegration of our dear country.

That you disagree with his call does not make him a fool. Foul language is where our problem is. If you have a better option table it before all. In the end I can tell you that one of the reasons people call for disintegration is to stick to it you 'cause they know thats where it hurts you.

Who would not want to go to the US or Eu or anywhere without Visa? Now if I like the idea of going to China or Uk with no Visa what makes you think I want to go Odua or Arewa with papers? People want either a fair treatment of be cut loose, its just that simple. If you dont like his position then tell us what yours is - Like for instance, I like the huge market Nigeria presents but on the other hand I dislike that I might get killed for nothing for either my faith or because I was drinking beer in Zamfara. Now how do we eliminate extremism and retain the market? Lets get to the root of it before you start going for my chin. That I call for disintegration may be a sign that I feel the market is not worth the effort in Zamfara, Imo, or Bayelsa. Anyway, my point is lets get to the root of the matter before we demonize people who're responding to the symptoms.

ekt_bear: How many of you NLs or Nigerians who have made it in the US/Europe/etc (or are in the process of making it) have illiterate parents? Impoverished parents? Parents who've never been to university?

You have a point bro.

Sam_Ikenna:

That you disagree with his call does not make him a fool. Foul language is where our problem is. If you have a better option table it before all. In the end I can tell you that one of the reasons people call for disintegration is to stick to it you 'cause they know thats where it hurts you.

nwanne, to call Dede1 a fool is itself foolish. You should be able to recognize a tonge-in-cheek statement when you see one. I will add however, that you and Dede1 would remain wise if your calls for the disintegration of Nigeria is limited to the internet. If you make that call in your home towns loudly enough, I predict that your own Governor, for starters, will throw you in jail. So don't be foolish.

Divorce is typically the lazy man's way of managing a troubled marriage, particularly when better options, which will not hurt their children, exist.

Nebeuwa: Why should Nigerian immigrants who attained an education in the United States go back to Nigeria where their talents and expertise will not be rewarded? I do not understand that mindset. Nigerian communities in the United States are here to stay like the other immigrant communities before us. When people immigrate from their home countries, they do so not with the mindset of going back, but to start a new life in another land.

The United States will continue to attract immigrants not only from Nigeria, but countries from around the world.

Interesting!
But you should know that it would be hypocritical on your part,and unfair to Nigeria if after you die,your remains are brought back to Nigeria to litter our landscape!
The Nigeria you never gave anything to!

@Ekt Bear, For what it's worth neither of my parents went to university. My Dad had very little formal education actually - But he is one of the most literate, smartest and well traveled Nigerians I know.

Sheer hard work (via entrepreneurship, business etc), and drive to succeed through honest means count. Maybe that's why I'm not as excited about this educational attainment business with the Nigerian immigrant community.

Virtually all of my family are in Nigeria though - I'm currently in grad school here but I have plans to relocate. But Much of the bad news I read here is very discouraging.

ekt_bear: Sam Ikenna.

Not too sure how old you are. But are you saying that your parents were not amongst the upper echelon of education in Nigeria?

The problem is I think some of you are defining "elite" only by the amount of money in someone's pocket.

But the way the world has been for the past 30 or 40 years of so, this isn't the case...if you have brains but no money, you can easily earn an excellent salary.

If your parents went to somewhere like UNN or whatever the best Eastern Nigerian schools were at that time, then I'm not sure it is fair to pretend as if you are just an ordinary guy, or the child of ordinary folk

Not many were able to do what your parents did..

In a way you're right. However, what I dont subscribe to is how some races like to trivialize our efforts. Anyway, lets give it up for Nigerians in the US. In all the schools that I went to most of the black students came from Nigeria, Ghana, and Congo. I only met 3 African American males in my core engineering classes, one female, 2 males - one of the males got stabbed and the other was scared to hell of QM.

solomon111: Well his remains won't be brought back to the abstract entity called "Nigeria."

But instead to XYZ town. The town of his ancestors, who've lived there for 400 years or whatever.

That one doesn't much care about "Nigeria" doesn't mean that you don't care about the welfare of your town, state, people. The latter are a lot easier to connect with on an emotional level at least for me than "Nigeria."

ndu_chucks:

nwanne, to call Dede1 a fool is itself foolish. You should be able to recognize a tonge-in-cheek statement when you see one. I will add however, that you and Dede1 would remain wise if your calls for the disintegration of Nigeria is limited to the internet. If you make that call in your home towns loudly enough, I predict that your own Governor, for starters, will throw you in jail. So don't be foolish.

Divorce is typically the lazy man's way of managing a troubled marriage, particularly when better options, which will not hurt their children, exist.

You're not talking to a 5yr old.

Nnenna1: @Ekt Bear, For what it's worth neither of my parents went to university. My Dad had very little formal education actually - But he is one of the most literate, smartest and well traveled Nigerians I know.

Sheer hard work (via entrepreneurship, business etc), and drive to succeed through honest means count. Maybe that's why I'm not as excited about this educational attainment business with the Nigerian immigrant community.

Virtually all of my family are in Nigeria though - I'm currently in grad school here but I have plans to relocate. But Much of the bad news I read here is very discouraging.

I think you'll always be able to find counterexamples...folks who are making it in the US whose parents are impoverished, illiterate, un or undereducated.

But I think the general trend holds.

However, this very well may be a trivial observation...presumably the vast majority of people who immigrate to the US have some sort of "edge" over the average person of their native land.

My hypothesis though is that the "edge" is higher in the case of Nigerian immigrants rather than say Indian or Chinese immigrants. Of course, I don't have data to back this up, so I could very well be wrong. But I suspect it to be true.

Lmao @ "mallam ekt_bear"

I have zero connection/interest in Islam, just fyi. And if I ever decide to change my religious beliefs, it would probably be to the religion of my ancestors (Shango worship) or agnosticism, not Islam

Ekt bear,


I am not under the impression that bawomolo's father was a "bum" in Nigeria by any means because he worked as a taxi driver to feed his family. I know of Nigerians and Cameroonians with pharmacy and engineering degrees that were previously working at supermarkets and grocery stores as attendants before finding their fit. He could have had trouble getting a higher paying job that he was qualified for because of his foreign origin/background or something as that has definitely happened to a family friend of ours before. But I do know Nigerian parents in real life who are teachers (public school teachers don't make much in the U.S.) or who work in retail and their children are also intelligent and achievers so maybe I'm relying too much on anecdotal evidence here.

But a real flaw I see in the main thrust of your argument is defining those Nigerians who meet the minimum standard for being middle or upper middle class anywhere else in the world as automatically being upper class in Nigeria. Those Nigerians who meet the minimum standard for being middle class in terms of education anywhere else in the world are forming/trying to form the middle class in Nigeria, but when/if Nigeria is deteriorating, they sometimes decide to go and be middle class somewhere else.

Upper class financially in Nigeria does really mean the moneybags who hold executive positions somewhere or who have "XYZ Group of Companies" associated with them and who own oil blocks or have other large business holdings and who live in large gated compounds with massive houses. I don't think most Nigerians in America are from these groups, though some definitely are. The financial upper class is necessarily a small percentage of the population anywhere but I think the same applies to the educational upper class and that's probably why I disagree with you.

Now the educational upper class may be a little harder to define but I would definitely disagree with the idea that every holder of a bachelor's degree in some profession (engineering, law, pharmacy, nursing, etc.) from a decent to superior university in Nigeria is truly upper class educationally in the sense that we would think of it in the western world. These are people who are trying to form the middle class, whereas you seem to believe that when somebody becomes educated in a developing country, they become an upper class person.

I also disagree strongly with the idea that those who have been educated so far have been able to "do what many others were unable to do" and truly automatically constitute the top 1 or 5 percent of the nation in terms of intellectual ability. That was kind of what my whole story about those two families was about. Doesn't every family (or at least the majority of families) need to reach a comfortable enough financial level to where they can focus on educating their sons and daughters at the best pre-university schools (and not just surviving) before you can decide who is really the cream of the crop? I have no reason to believe that the engineer son and doctor son of that poorer family will in any way achieve less over the course of their careers academically or professionally than the doctor son of that rich family.


Also, there was a significantly smaller population in the 70s and fewer universities, meaning that Ibadan, Ife, Benin, Lagos, Nsukka, Abu Zaria, Illorin, Calabar, etc. were the only real universities around, so those people are not elites because they graduated from there even though they might think they are (I mean this in the most non-offensive way possible, for anyone reading who might have graduated in the 70s or 80s from one of these universities. I'm not trying to downplay anyone's effort or hard work but I am questioning the idea of the inherent intellectual superiority over others of those who graduated from these universities at that time). When these are the only universities in the country of course they will be the best ones. There were never any Harvards in Nigeria. No Yales, no Stanfords, etc. It's not as if Nigeria even had an IIT or Sharif University or Tsinghua or any where that there was beastly, ridiculous competition to get into when these Nigerians were getting their degrees there in the 70s or 80s or anything. There was competition no doubt, but nothing that could place someone into the intellectual elite of their country just by graduating from these places.

I agree with the points made by ekt_bear. Most of the Nigerian immigrants in the United States would be considered the elite in Nigeria. I also think the United State immigration policies may also play a role, because the United States does not allow anyone to come to this nation.

The most important factor is that you have the money to provide for yourself, because Americans do not want to add anyone else to welfare. It is not like Nigeria has a border with the United State like Mexico does. You have to have the means to come to the United States and only a small percentage of Nigerians have the money to do that. When you have money, you are more likely to have had a university education as well.

Many Nigerians come to the United States are not seeking asylum, but to gain a better education. The article eludes to that, because the only way many Nigerian immigrants are able to stay in the United States is if they pursue a higher education degree. It makes the more likely to get American citizenship.

First, yes Nigeria's population was smaller in the 70s. But as you say, so were the # of universities and # of spots.

This is a percentile sort of thing...if you were in the top 5% in the 70s when there were X people and are in the top 5% now when there are 10X people, in both cases you are still in the same percentile.

So I think your Harvard/Stanford/IIT/Sharif analogy supports my argument rather than detracts from it.

Nebeuwa: I agree with the points made by ekt_bear. Most of the Nigerian immigrants in the United States would be considered the elite in Nigeria. I also think the United State immigration policies may also play a role, because the United States does not allow anyone to come to this nation.

The most important factor is that you have the money to provide for yourself, because Americans do not want to add anyone else to welfare. It is not like Nigeria has a border with the United State like Mexico does. You have to have the means to come to the United States and only a small percentage of Nigerians have the money to do that. When you have money, you are more likely to have had a university education as well.

Many Nigerians come to the United States are not seeking asylum, but to gain a better education. The article eludes to that, because the only way many Nigerian immigrants are able to stay in the United States is if they pursue a higher education degree. It makes the more likely to get American citizenship.

I disagree with you. Most Nigerian immigrants in the US are not elites but middle-class people who ran to America to make ends meet. You can tell by looking at the parents of these Nigerian-Americans. Most of them are not educated. Most of them lived in squalor when they were in Nigeria.

solomon111: Interesting!
But you should know that it would be hypocritical on your part,and unfair to Nigeria if after you die,your remains are brought back to Nigeria to litter our landscape!
The Nigeria you never gave anything to!

I have connection to Nigeria through my father and maybe one day, my remains will be brought to my ancestral village, but that is not a high priority for me. To be honest, I would rather sponsor my kinsmen to come to the United States and get an education. I am in full support of increasing the number of Nigerians living in the United States. We as an immigrant community should make our mark in our newly found home.

I recognize that we should never forget our "homeland," but in the end, we need to look at what is best for our family. And the United States, not Nigeria has been a beacon for immigrants from all across the world for over a century.

Ekt bear, I've got somewhere to be. I'll be back in an hour or so. I've seen your last comment and I still disagree although I understand the point you're making.