@t4cash

Do you really think most women are that naive?
And in 2006? Do you think a woman who believe her man is cheating on her will quietly let it go on and not do the same to him?
Unless you're married to an uneducated individual or someone with little means to provide for themselves, most well-educated individuals know they have the option to leave their men if they choose to (which would most likely be the result if her infidelity is known) and not have to worry about financial woes, etc,

@ babymine

You seem convinced that all men are cheaters. 
I suggest you take Seun's advice and leave them alone then, cause I doubt you can have a healthy relationship or a strong bond with anyone if you can't trust them.

i don't think having sex with a woman you're not married to is called cheating. it can be pasion or i don't know what. i'm not married, but i don't think i would cheat unless .

Dear Nia,

Nia:

@t4cash

Do you really think most women are that naive?

Nothing in my quote indicates this statement i.e. "most women" being naive. You are welcome to re-read. Obviously after many posters came on and said I can swear so-and-so never cheated, I just wanted to throw a dash of some cold reality for "those" people. Including the pastor's son.

Never vouch for anyone, or you may be making a fool out of yourself.

Many men are careless, but some are really good. So good that even their close friends will swear they don't have time for women. I for example, long mastered how to never look at other women even those in body-hugging clothes including if I am walking alone. And when I cheated, it was always during office hours. My coming home time never changed. It was always with people who also had relationships (i.e. we both had something to lose if discovered) hence no phone calls etc. So many polygamists are never suspected talk less discovered.

As for

Nia:

And in 2006? Do you think a woman who believe her man is cheating on her will quietly let it go on and not do the same to him?

Again I do not know where you got that I think so. Let me just say that two wrongs do not make a right. You will get nothing from cheating back.

Only religion can save a Nigerian man.

But again I must state that the fact that most participants in this forum are unmarried people prevents a serious discussion about this topic. Just my 2cents.

t4cash:

Dear Nia,

Nothing in my quote indicates this statement i.e. "most women" being naive. You are welcome to re-read. Obviously after many posters came on and said I can swear so-and-so never cheated, I just wanted to throw a dash of some cold reality for "those" people. Including the pastor's son.

Never vouch for anyone, or you may be making a fool out of yourself.

Many men are careless, but some are really good. So good that even their close friends will swear they don't have time for women. I for example, long mastered how to never look at other women even those in body-hugging clothes including if I am walking alone. And when I cheated, it was always during office hours. My coming home time never changed. It was always with people who also had relationships (i.e. we both had something to lose if discovered) hence no phone calls etc. So many polygamists are never suspected talk less discovered.

As for
Again I do not know where you got that I think so. Let me just say that two wrongs do not make a right. You will get nothing from cheating back.

Only religion can save a Nigerian man.

But again I must state that the fact that most participants in this forum are unmarried people prevents a serious discussion about this topic. Just my 2cents.

It's all good. 
You're explaining your reality and i'm explaining mine. I wasn't trying to attack. Everything I wrote was a response to your assertions. You say that women should assume or accept that their men are cheating and I was saying that people are only human and when a well educated and financially stable woman thinks her partner is cheating, she will most likely cheat too because she knows she'll be fine--financially and otherwise--if her infidelity is made public.  Like you, I am also speaking from experience, and if you do a little research, you will find that this is usually the case, although I am not saying that this is the only reason women cheat.
More and more women are cheating because--unlike in the past--they are now able to take care of themselves without their husbands. Again, this is the reality, not my opinion. I hope that's clear enough.


Peace

@ Nia
Props! I'll co-sign that.

@Nia

You are preaching to the choir. Basically you are telling me that women will retaliate (especially the independent ones).

What makes you believe that I think they should not/ can not/ will not? Or that I even care that/if they do?

If you knew me better you would have realised that I would probably agree with you that women who catch their spouses cheating are entitled to cheat. But mostly I would still say to a female friend who sought my advice about this, "we don't do things because we can, two wrongs won't make a right. Think everything through." believe it or not, I know many men who even want their wives to cheat because they are tired of the marriage, and are looking for a way out.

Many women choose to leave instead.

The state of Nigerian men's mentality is still mainly polygamous. Nigerian women who have become convinced that monogamy is their "right" (remember that this to some Africanists this is arguable) have to deal with this. Each woman who finds herself facing our current situation can make her choice of how to deal with it. Cheat also if you like. Choose not to marry if you like. Whatever! Someone I know uses a private detective and if she finds her husband chreating, she will go to the girls house and beat her up. Some choose to agree with their man he can date others but with caveats.  It's your life.

But trying to live in an immaginary situation that this situation is otherwise (or that your husband/brother/father is somewhat different) I am warning is futile and potentially embarassing. If you are replying me please reply to this.

What women should choose to do is not what I posted on.

@ t4cash

I refuse to be pessimistic. My husband ( when I get married) will not cheat on me cos he'll be Godfearing and Responsible.

@ Nia

I am not convinced that all men cheat. I believe that there are still men who have not and will neva cheat on their wives.

@ davidylan

Thank God for your dad. I trust you'll do same.

babymine:

@ t4cash

I refuse to be pessimistic. My husband ( when I get married) will not cheat on me because he'll be Godfearing and Responsible.

@ Nia

I am not convinced that all men cheat. I believe that there are still men who have not and will never cheat on their wives.

@ davidylan

Thank God for your dad. I trust you'll do same.

I am being realistic not pessimistic. You my dear, is being over-optimistic. You seem to me a simply naive person. Sort of a dreamer.

Well as I said, only religion can keep a Nigerian man monogamous so your targetting "God-fearing " men is somehow in agreement with this.

Your current post is not helpful as most people who can answer the question are not coming forth to avoid being labelled. Although I do not think you are really looking for the answer, it seems you have decided that there are many faithful husbands. As is common on this forum, People start a thread with a question that they have already closed their mind to the answer.

Why not take my suggestion and conduct an anonymous poll saying: How many of you Nigerian men have not cheated on their wives? Only married men please respond. To learn the truthful answer.

But if na dream you wan dream, you are welcome to dream on, sha.

t4cash, don't you believe that there are men who have never cheated on their wives? Is it impossible not to cheat? You make it sound like all men do it. And I don't agree with you.  _{by the way no offence intended} [color=#006600][/color]

Your posting is funny. Where do you get that "I cheat" or think "Every one cheats" My posts are clearly written with "mainly", "traditionally",  etc.  no where does it say "all men."

I am not really interested in your question in the title of this thread. I only advised that if even only 5% of Nigerian men cheat, no one should go out in public and say my husband/brother/father does not cheat. because they may be making a fool of themselves to the people they are telling.

BTW How can you ask a question and be the one answering it. If you already know that "not Everyone has to", why did you start this topic?

You must be a time-waster. So I blame myself for trying to hold a serious discussion with you. I thought I could help you but was obviously wrong. Have a good life.

it's not ok to cheat, but it's not the bigest crime a man can do. i think a good wife should consider forgivness. at least the first 10 times

@dracosh:

The first 10 times?!!! OK. How about the man forgiving the woman too after the first 10 times? Then imagine that's your wife that's done the 10 times.

@Nia,
That psycho write up is good. I like this one in particular:

When a divorce occurs, it is because the infidel can not escape the affair in time or cannot face going back into a marriage in which he or she is now known and understood and can no longer pose as the chaste virgin or white knight spotless and beyond criticism. A New Yorker cartoon once showed a forlorn man at a bar complaining: "My wife understands me.''

There are several divorce cases that can be painted that way - One of the spouse feels guilty about his/her misdeeds, believes he/she cannot be forgiven and as such resort to divorce.

But the truth is that there's nothing like having a forgiving heart. It's difficult though. And like dracosh rightly stated, a good spouse should consider forgiving (genuinely) the other, at least up to a point where indeed you need to go and pray for the straying spouse.

I sometimes wonder how married women who act as actress in Hollywood movies cope with their husbands. Just imagine a man watching his wife being sexed up by several men in some kind of romance movies and the woman comes back to make meals for the man at home. Weird, really weird, this life of ours.

C'mon t4cash, don't take it so personal. Haba, we are not quarrelling now. You are entitled to your opinion and so I'm I. Take care and keep smiling. _{Where's your sense of humor?}[color=#006600][/color]

@babymine 

Haba, I no de vex like that. I had decided that i won't say anything further in this topic that is why I did not respond since.

I can see you have edited and re-edited and re-re-re-re-edited your post accusing me of being a cheating hubby.  So I have to say something.

Its Ok, I forgive you. Big huuuggg! 

Later


BTW, about your question. Is there any man who hasn't ever cheated on his wife? Yes, in fact there are many such men including amongst contemporary Nigerian husbands.

t4cash:

@Nia
You are preaching to the choir. Basically you are telling me that women will retaliate (especially the independent ones).
What makes you believe that I think they should not/ can not/ will not? Or that I even care that/if they do?
If you knew me better you would have realised that I would probably agree with you that women who catch their spouses cheating are entitled to cheat. But mostly I would still say to a female friend who sought my advice about this, "we don't do things because we can, two wrongs won't make a right. Think everything through." believe it or not, I know many men who even want their wives to cheat because they are tired of the marriage, and are looking for a way out.
Many women choose to leave instead.
The state of Nigerian men's mentality is still mainly polygamous. Nigerian women who have become convinced that monogamy is their "right" (remember that this to some Africanists this is arguable) have to deal with this. Each woman who finds herself facing our current situation can make her choice of how to deal with it. Cheat also if you like. Choose not to marry if you like. Whatever! Someone I know uses a private detective and if she finds her husband chreating, she will go to the girls house and beat her up. Some choose to agree with their man he can date others but with caveats.  It's your life.
But trying to live in an immaginary situation that this situation is otherwise (or that your husband/brother/father is somewhat different) I am warning is futile and potentially embarassing. If you are replying me please reply to this.
What women should choose to do is not what I posted on.

@t4cash
I respect your view, but I do not agree with it. Polygamy in Nigeria was not about sex. It was about economics and it was a financial arrangement. The amount of wife you had showed how wealthy you were. The fact that you can take care of more than one woman elevated your status in our culture.  In fact, the reason women rarely spoke out against it was because they were financially secure and were taken care of. In exchange for being taken care of, they did not speak out against polygamy.   
You can still see the result of this in many women who chase after rich men. Some people also practiced polygamy to have many children who can either assist on the farm, and others practiced it to have many children in case some of them die off, etc,, 

In most cases, however,  the people who pracitced polygamy were those who could AFFORD to do so, i.e the rich and powerful. 


Now Fastforward to the 21st century
You now have a culture that has become heavily oversexed and now the issue of polygamy needs to be revisited. What is happening is that some are now trying to justify lack of sexual restraint by claiming that polygamy was part of our culture because the men couldn't say no. I disagree.
Using sex or lack of sexual restraint to justify past poligamy is to do injustice to the real facts behind the emergence of poligamy in our culture.

Most people prefer monogamy because we humans are emotional beings and we need to feel secure in our unions. One reason being that when we marry someone, we want to know that all our investment in that person--time, emotion, care, offsprings--will not be jeopardized.

You say that people shouldn't assume their loved ones are faithful. But the fact is that most people ARE faithful. (Bad) generalizations are never a good bases on which to build anything concrete.

If you believe that your wife is running around with other men or that the child you think is yours might not be yours, do you think that is better than being made a fool of? And if you happen to be wrong? Exactly how will this make the relationship better?

Which is why I can't understand why anyone who wants to be in a healthy relationship will go around thinking every man or woman is a cheater just so they don't look like a fool.

To address your question: people are entitled to monogamy. Like I stated earlier, women were not expected to work or do anything difficult. They were to be taken care of by their husbands whenever they needed anything. This is one of the reason polygamy continued. Today, there's more opportunity for women to better themselves. To work hard to attain what they want without relying on men. Likewise there's no longer a way to justify polygamy.

Wow Nia that was excellent and very true , if i am ever lucky enough to marry i will treat my wife with total respect and love thats the way i was raised anything else would just be a failure.

@Nia

Once again, I try to leave but you pull me back.

You have a sound intellect. I love that. Yet your argument is filled with holes.

Nia:

I respect your view, but I do not agree with it. Polygamy in Nigeria was not about sex. It was about economics and it was a financial arrangement. In most cases, however,  the people who pracitced polygamy were those who could AFFORD to do so, i.e the rich and powerful. 
 

If polygamy is solely economic and not gender-related, why is it that the so many rich women all over the world today have not become polyandrous? Yes, some women cheat or sleep around but how many are living with several men whom they married. Lets be honest, women are naturally monogamous.

A sizable number of men do not cherish monogamy. It is something they endure to make their loved  one happy. PLEASE NOTE I DID NOT SAY ALL MEN. Which brings me to the part where you said:

Nia:

Most people prefer monogamy because we humans are emotional beings and we need to feel secure in our unions. One reason being that when we marry someone, we want to know that all our investment in that person--time, emotion, care, offsprings--will not be jeopardized.

It is women who invest emotions into sexual relationships. Men are usually merely physically involved and emotionally detached. When men do love, they can easily "love" several women. Female emotion is less easily divisible. Of course women will dispute this vigorously.

And as for the statement

Nia:

You say that people shouldn't assume their loved ones are faithful. But the fact is that most people ARE faithful. (Bad) generalizations are never a good bases on which to build anything concrete.

If you believe that your wife is running around with other men or that the child you think is yours might not be yours, do you think that is better than being made a fool of? And if you happen to be wrong? Exactly how will this make the relationship better?

Which is why I can't understand why anyone who wants to be in a healthy relationship will go around thinking every man or woman is a cheater just so they don't look like a fool. 

Read my post please. I did not say or imply "Do not trust your spouse/father/brother" or "go around thinking everyone are cheaters". I said DO NOT VOUCH FOR THEM PUBLICLY. There is a big difference. You see, I always use precise words, you never need to infer things for me. If I want to say "all men" I would never say "many men." If I want to say "Do not trust" I would not say "Do not vouch." This is what is stressing me out. Most often posters infers things that are no where in my post.

As for the example about one's wife. Human beings are ultimately not 100% reliable (that is what it means to say one is "only human". Other posters elsewhere in this forum (mostly women ) have written that between 5% and 30% of children are raised by men who think they are their biological father but are actually not. So at least a significant number of wives cheat to the point of allowing a man to raise another man's child. Do I trust my wife despite this statistic? Yes. Yet she is still a human being. So, let me explain : even if any our kids are not mine, I do not care (because at least they are hers and I love her). If she messed up she must have been a good reason. This is what "trust" should mean in a relationship.

People use the word "Love" wrongly. The word "Love" implies a "no-matter-what." God loves you. Your mother may love you. Most people who claim to be in love are actually not. That is why many modern marriages are failing. Any way lets not go off-topic.

Nia:

To address your question: people are entitled to monogamy. Like I stated earlier, women were not expected to work or do anything difficult. They were to be taken care of by their husbands whenever they needed anything. This is one of the reason polygamy continued. Today, there's more opportunity for women to better themselves. To work hard to attain what they want without relying on men. Likewise there's no longer a way to justify polygamy.
 

This part is funny. Your logic is that monogamy is justified by what women need at a point in time. The men nko? Any way you unwittingly agreed by saying so, that Monogamy is what suits women.

Yes. I agree that people are entitled to monogamy. BUT NOT FOR THE REASON YOU GIVE. It is because most marriages today are coontracts under common law (if it was in Church it is also under Canon law). They have therefore agreed to be MONOGAMOUS. That was why I said, "Guys you gave your word to her, you should keep it "

As for the claims that i am making generalizations I believe I cleared that up in my last post. I still maintain that even if only 5% of men cheat it is enough to take a stance to not go and be vouching publicly for anybody.

@ Nia
Kudos!!

@t4cash
Thank God you've 4given me and you're back on this thread. _{I feel much better now.}

Take care & have a splendid weekend!

@ t4cash
Thanks for the props, I enjoy reading your post as well.



Now if we want to learn from each other, I believe it's important to separate stereotypes from reality.

t4cash:

@Nia

Once again, I try to leave but you pull me back.

You have a sound intellect. I love that. Yet your argument is filled with holes.

If polygamy is solely economic and not gender-related, why is it that the so many rich women all over the world today have not become polyandrous? Yes, some women cheat or sleep around but how many are living with several men whom they married. Lets be honest, women are naturally monogamous.

I stated earlier that Polygamy was about the MAN raising his status. When a man is rich enough to marry--and keep--many women, his status is elevated in society. However, conventional wisdom tells us that this is not the case for women. As it was in the past, a woman who is rich and well-educated cannot elevate her status by marrying multiple men. Why? because she will be labeled a "slut", "ho" and other creative names people can come up with. Her option is to run around and have secret affairs without actually marrying these men so as to avoid all the stigma from society, which has proven to be the case among a number of independent and financially secure women.

Polyandry--the situation where one woman marries several men-- is a reality in Tibet,
although it doesn't receive the same attention as polygamy. It is also present in  parts of India. In Tibet, women practice polyandry because of society and it's demand:  The number of men in Tibet greatly outnumber the women, so you have a case of three to four men married to one woman.

A sizable number of men do not cherish monogamy. It is something they endure to make their loved  one happy. PLEASE NOTE I DID NOT SAY ALL MEN.

Like I stated earlier, most people DO support monogamy, and the people you are reffering to are in the minority.   
I never accused you of saying that all men cheat. But when you tell babymine that she is being "optimistic" because she thinks that "MOST" men are faithful so she doesn't play the fool, it leads to the issue of checking reality with stereotypes.

Which brings me to the part where you said:

It is women who invest emotions into sexual relationships. Men are usually merely physically involved and emotionally detached. When men do love, they can easily "love" several women. Of course women will dispute this vigorously.

I can't speak for you and you can't speak for me. I don't know how or if you're capable of love But this is another stereotype that I feel can only be dispelled by personal experiences. Like I stated earlier, Most human beings need a sense of security, be it emotional or otherwise. 

Within the last year, there have been several cases of African men who live in the U.S. killing their wives after she tries to leave them. Most of the time, these men have invested a lot in these women, (i.e. helped pay for their education and helped them with their career), and are ready to settle down with them, until kata kata bust and the woman desides to pack up and leave. You need to feel secure when you invest in another human being, this is not a case of whether you are a man or woman, but about human beings in general.

Read my post please. I did not say or imply "Do not trust your spouse/father/brother" or "go around thinking everyone are cheaters". I said DO NOT VOUCH FOR THEM PUBLICLY. There is a big difference. You see, I always use precise words, you never need to infer things for me. If I want to say "all men" I would never say "many men." If I want to say "Do not trust" I would not say "Do not vouch." This is what is stressing me out. Most often posters infers things that are no where in my post.

Fair enough, but I don’t think I inferred anything that wasn’t in your post. This is what you wrote on page two:

So I advise the original poster, assume that your husband is a cheat (though do not tell him so). that way you will not be disappointed if you find out he does.

Then on page 3 you wrote:

Blessed are the pessimistic, for they shall never be disappointed. Better to believe that Nigerian men cheat (or as rather, tend towards polygamy) than to live in fantasyland and get hurt needlessly.

I don’t see where the miscommunication is.

As for the example about one's wife. Human beings are ultimately not 100% reliable (that is what it means to say one is "only human". Other posters elsewhere in this forum (mostly women ) have written that between 5% and 30% of children are raised by men who think they are their biological father but are actually not. So at least a significant number of wives cheat to the point of allowing a man to raise another man's child. Do I trust my wife despite this statistic? Yes. Yet she is still a human being. So, let me explain : even if any our kids are not mine, I do not care (because at least they are hers and I love her). If she messed up she must have been a good reason. This is what "trust" should mean in a relationship.

I think it is good for you that you have that kind of bond with your wife, enough to not get upset with raising other men’s children. However, most people are not like that. When I say we are “only human”, I don’t mean that we are not reliable, not at all. I mean that most people who discover their partners are unfaithful are likely to feel rejected and the need to retaliate. 

People use the word "Love" wrongly. The word "Love" implies a "no-matter-what." God loves you. Your mother may love you. Most people who claim to be in love are actually not. That is why many modern marriages are failing. Any way lets not go off-topic.

In some sense I agree with you. Love is not a fairy tale, but it still demands trust, respect, and fairness. Anything less will put it on shaky grounds.

Yes. I agree that people are entitled to monogamy. BUT NOT FOR THE REASON YOU GIVE. It is because most marriages today are coontracts under common law (if it was in Church it is also under Canon law). They have therefore agreed to be MONOGAMOUS. That was why I said, "Guys you gave your word to her, you should keep it "

Again, I have to disagree. Even if we are NOT under common law, MANY PEOPLE WILL STILL DEMAND MONOGAMY. As long as human beings are still emotional beings, and can experience jealousy, etc,  they will still demand monogamy. It is there to keep society civil and because it is the only way to keep baba Mustafa from blowing baba tunde’s head off after he finds out that Mustafa is actually Baba Tunde’s son.

As for the claims that i am making generalizations I believe I cleared that up in my last post. I still maintain that even if only 5% of men cheat it is enough to take a stance to not go and be vouching publicly for anybody.

I think you’re referring to what davidylan wrote about his father. Maybe we cannot always know people who are close to us as well as we think, but then again, we don’t know what kind of relationship davidylan has with his father and we don’t know what kind of man his father is. Logically speaking, since he is the best person who knows his father on this site, then we can only assume that he has more authority on the truth about his father’s fidelity than anyone else on this site.


I hope I have not misunderstood you again.

Peace.

Hmmm, so many things to learn.

Delicious repartee!!!! I concede to you, milady. May we meet on another field.

@ Nia
My dear, is there anyway to put this topic to bed? It seems to be an avenue for some people to convince themselves or their own beliefs. If a person isn't open then they/he/she will never listen. What do you think?

after looking at this thread il conclude that both NIa and t4cash have some valid points.

But Nia il like to add that social status is not the main reason y men marry many women even though it is a major reason.

Men are simply physical and the more money u have, the more women u want to fork. Very simpe. Remove the aspect of forking and i dont think any man would want a woman's problems, not to talk of many women.

When a man wants to marry a woman, one of his major intrests is to fork her. Remove that and most men wont want a woman disturbing their life.

Kind of raw, yeah, but true

@t4cash

Thanks, 
I look forward to more discussions in the future.


@ chinani
Yes, there might be people who prefer to disregard facts and cling to their own version of the truth. But as thinking human beings, we owe it to ourselves to seek out facts and not fall victim to stereotypes and generalizations. Relationships are complicated enough without mixing generalizations and stereotypes. Anyone who choose not to be "open", as you put it, is free to do so. But we don't need to stop discussions for such people.

@ sage


Yes, men and women approach relationships differently. But I don't understand your question.  What we're discussing, is within the context of marriage.  What you do when you're just dating someone is not as relevant as what goes on when you get married.

No, I don't think men only marry women for sex, If this is what you're trying to say. You're free to have sex with whoever you want without marrying them.
I agree that our thinking patterns are different when it comes to many things, including how we approach relationships. 

However, I don't understand how this translates into "problems".

What "problems" do women have?

And what percentage of these women have these problems?

What makes you think that one gender is the only one that have problems? 

No man is an island and men and women ARE NOT solitary animals. We all need each other.

To address your question on sex, our society in the past was not sexualized like it is today. Polygamy was not about sex, like I stated earlier. It was for status, position, and "big man-ism". More people are likely to use sex to justify polygamy today, but that wasn't the case when polygamy emerged in Nigeria. Only those who could afford to practice polygamy did so.

@Nia,

I conceded to you not because I could not still find holes in that wonderful reply but because it was so deliciously put, I didnt want to spoil things by arguing with it. Furthermore, I have learnt that a gentleman must let the woman have the last word.

So I am only here to illuminate what you mention above (at least I hope my comments to follow will be seen by you in this light) not to reopen our previous point of argument.

Humans today are more sexual- true. But do you know why? It is because of the discovery and widespread usage of contraception (and abortion). It has seriously reduced (if not removed) the consequences (children) of sexual activity.

In the past you had to be rich to practice polygamy because if you are poor and you bang anyhow, who will take care of the kids? Now men can afford to have sex without kids following. It affects both sides in the relationship. The question now is if this is so, why is it that more men are taking more advantage of this? Is it because they love sex more? Is it because biologically their involvement in child bearing ends at ejaculation? I do not want to argue further with you. So I will allow you to provide the answer (and will accept it)

My posts about men finding it hard to be faithful were really referring to nigerian husbands (i.e. those living in Nigeria or still in a Nigerian state of mind). In the Western world, artificial CONSEQUENCES have been introduced for sexual activity that have put men in check. If you have a child in or out of wedlockyou have to provide for it. Even if this was whilst you were a teenager. You can go to jail for not doing so. Also if your wife divorces you, you will lose half of your income for life. These consequences are not there in the Nigerian milieu. A woman who packs her bags and leaves because she discovered her husband was philandeering (mind you, in the West the man has to leave), will be sent back by her parents kia kia.


@sage

I will like to correct you that sex is not the reason most men marry. Most men marry a woman because they want a mother for their children (and often for themselves as well). Most also remain in the marriage for the kids sake. Many put up with monogamy (or pretences of such) despite the society's wink at them sleeping around to avoid losing their kids or subjecting them to the problems of seperation. yep! many men are actually married to their children not to their wife. This is the same reason many beautiful women who are not motherly get left on the shelf. Again I speak as a Nigerian not a westerner. In my opinion, Western culture has adopted serial monogamy as its culture.

Which is why i said elsewhere that I will never wish sterility on my enemy. A marriage without kids, especially in the Nigerian society will find it very difficult to survive.

t4cash:

@Nia,

I conceded to you not because I could not still find holes in that wonderful reply but because it was so deliciously put, I didnt want to spoil things by arguing with it. Furthermore, I have learnt that a gentleman must let the woman have the last word.

So I am only here to illuminate what you mention above (at least I hope my comments to follow will be seen by you in this light) not to reopen our previous point of argument.

@ t4cash, Disproving my statements does not make you less of a gentleman, not in my view. You have my full permission to poke as many holes as you can find in whatever i write. I don't know you personally and you don't know me, so it's all good. We should learn from each other and not let formalities get in the way of attaining knowledge.

Humans today are more sexual- true. But do you know why? It is because of the discovery and widespread usage of contraception (and abortion). It has seriously reduced (if not removed) the consequences (children) of sexual activity.In the past you had to be rich to practice polygamy because if you are poor and you bang anyhow, who will take care of the kids? Now men can afford to have sex without kids following. It affects both sides in the relationship. The question now is if this is so, why is it that more men are taking more advantage of this? Is it because they love sex more? Is it because biologically their involvement in child bearing ends at ejaculation? I do not want to argue further with you. So I will allow you to provide the answer (and will accept it)

There is no research to back up what you have claimed. If you have any evidence of this, please provide it, otherwise, we will just embark on long discussions about Hypothesis and formulations without any concrete evidence.
Contraceptives and the right to abortion are important for women.  They have been heavily discriminated against in the past, and this is still the case in many parts of the world. Women have also been told what to do with their body, in one form or the other. As we become more humanitarian, we have learned that individuals should have the right to decide what they do with their own body. I don't want us to digress into PROLIFE vs PROCHOICE argument, cause I feel those types of dicussions usually don't change anything and just wastes time, so I'll leave it there.


Oversexualization in society affects both men and women because most men are having sex with WOMEN, not each other. So if more men are having more sex, then it follows that more women are having more sex too. You seem to be placing this in the context of just men, but the discussion would flow better if it is balanced out and placed in the context of BOTH men and Women and how changes in social norms and stigmas are changing how both groups of people interact with each other.

My posts about men finding it hard to be faithful were really referring to nigerian husbands (i.e. those living in Nigeria or still in a Nigerian state of mind). In the Western world, artificial CONSEQUENCES have been introduced for sexual activity that have put men in check. If you have a child in or out of wedlockyou have to provide for it. Even if this was whilst you were a teenager. You can go to jail for not doing so. Also if your wife divorces you, you will lose half of your income for life. These consequences are not there in the Nigerian milieu. A woman who packs her bags and leaves because she discovered her husband was philandeering (mind you, in the West the man has to leave), will be sent back by her parents kia kia.

I understand that there's cases of people who prefer polygamy among Nigerian men, but majority of the people favor monogamy. And like I stated earlier, their desire for polygamy has more to do with sex than the real polygamy the older generations practiced. When I say things have become sexualized, I wasn't excluding Nigerians. Compared to the way the much older generations were, Nigeria is sexualized, although not as much as the Western world. Our society no longer elevates people for having many wives like it did in the past, so there's no real incentive to practice polygamy except for sexual pleasures or just to have many children. And in these cases--just like in the past--the men must take full care of their spouses.


You wrote:

In the Western world, artificial CONSEQUENCES have been introduced for sexual activity that have put men in check. If you have a child in or out of wedlockyou have to provide for it. Even if this was whilst you were a teenager. You can go to jail for not doing so. Also if your wife divorces you, you will lose half of your income for life. These consequences are not there in the Nigerian milieu. A woman who packs her bags and leaves because she discovered her husband was philandeering (mind you, in the West the man has to leave), will be sent back by her parents kia kia.

I'm posting this quote again to highlight the differences in attitudes about the same subject--polygamy--in different geographical locations. This changes in attitude critically affects how things play out. One of the reasons Polygamy in Nigeria continued to prosper was because women allowed it. One of the reason they allowed it was because they were not offered the same opportunities (i.e. to go to school and have a career and make their own money) like their male counterparts. Women are now deciding to no longer condone it, and a good number of men are also choosing to abandone polygamy which i think will affect societies and attititudes in Nigeria in the long run.

Nia:


One of the reasons Polygamy in Nigeria continued to prosper was because women allowed it.

Nia:

Women are now deciding to no longer condone it, and a good number of men are also choosing to abandone polygamy which i think will affect societies and attititudes in Nigeria in the long run.

I am saving these two for whenever I feel like a hearty chuckle.

So women decide what form marriage should take,  in which society? 

Assuming we are focussing on monogamy in Nigeria. Monogamy is the norm here today because it is the Christian doctrine. We were colonized and adopted it. if the Africans or moslems had done the colonizing it would be different. Of course I know you will reply that even Moslems are adopting monogamy but my dear, all the moslem men I know only observe monogamy on paper. And like all traditions it is not set in stone. In the very West we got it from, 30% of marriages end in divorce and it is under serious duress. Charles Handy the futurist once predicted that the standard lifetime marriage contract should be modified to a 7 year renewable contract (roughly the time most couples last before their marital harmony is exhasted). Monogamy is a comedy of contradictions (because Men are from Mars and women are from Venus  ) but so also is life and we still choose it over suicide.

Nia, sorry let me ask, have you married and do you reside where?

Any way the topic is "Is there any man who hasn't cheated on his wife" we are off-topic.

mnnnnnnnnnnnnhhhhh

Let me say that in ancient societies where women took the lead role (for example the northern kingdoms in nigeria) the women who were even at times rulers did not marry a million husbands. That raises the question as to why it is only men, once they are wealthy that crave for different women.

Taking care of ur whole community back in the days also raised ur social status to whatever u wanted it to be. U did not have to marry many wives to do that.

But really and truthfully, i cant say that their is any one single factor as to y polygamy was beign practised. I guess it was a combination of several factors which included kids, status,sex,customary obligations etc.

I think many factors had a role to play.

@ t4cash

I am saving these two for whenever I feel like a hearty chuckle.

It's good that we can share knowledge and put a smile on each other's faces at the same time. 

So women decide what form marriage should take,  in which society? 

read my post again.

Assuming we are focussing on monogamy in Nigeria. Monogamy is the norm here today because it is the Christian doctrine. We were colonized and adopted it. if the Africans or moslems had done the colonizing it would be different. Of course I know you will reply that even Moslems are adopting monogamy but my dear, all the moslem men I know only observe monogamy on paper. And like all traditions it is not set in stone. In the very West we got it from, 30% of marriages end in divorce and it is under serious duress. Charles Handy the futurist once predicted that the standard lifetime marriage contract should be modified to a 7 year renewable contract (roughly the time most couples last before their marital harmony is exhasted). Monogamy is a comedy of contradictions (because Men are from Mars and women are from Venus  ) but so also is life and we still choose it over suicide.

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I wrote. The focus of our discussion was why polygamy was practiced and for what purpose. Yes, many African countries went through several changes after colonization. However, any kind of marriage institution--be it monogamy or polygamy--needs the approval of both sexes to thrive.

You wrote that "monogamy is a comedy of contradictions", feel free to explain this a little further.

In the very West we got it from, 30% of marriages end in divorce and it is under serious duress.

I hear this from many Nigerians--and other Africans--that Africans are somehow superior to the West because they don't have a high percentage of divorce rate. (Actually, I believe it's more like 50%, not 30%).
Arguments like this, IMO, are one of the worst and most fallible one we could ever use to claim superiority.

Nigerians don't have a high percentage of divorce rates because:

>>>Our society has made marriage a DO or DIE affair. Even if you're miserable in your marriage, you're encouraged to smile and be happy. When this was the case in the West, you didn't have 50% percent divorce rate neither.

>>>No concrete study has ever been done to discover how many people are HAPPY in their marriages

>>>We lack proper infrastructures as a society and an encouraging environment for people to make decisions without fearing social stigmas--unlike in the West where people are free to do as they wish-- and without being punished for doing things that goes against social norms. Don't mistake fear and tolerance for happiness.

>>>We are a heavily superstitious people and we believe heavily in mysticism, i.e. God, the Bible, the Quran, babalawo, evil spirits,  et cetera,

>>We are difficient in providing our people, and especially women, with opportunities for advancement in life, so women are more likely to tolerate a bad marriage when they have no reliable income of their own.

And the list goes one,

Take all these away, and if you don't get your high divorce rate, then you might be onto something. 

Nia, sorry let me ask, have you married and do you reside where?

: ) I'm not sure how this is relevant to the discussion

Any way the topic is "Is there any man who hasn't cheated on his wife" we are off-topic.

Hmnn,   not necessarily. A good amount our discussion here trails back to answer this question or at least shed light on why anyone would ask such a question (i.e. stereotypes and generalizations, vs. reality). And in any case, public discussions might be informative for some people. or at the very least, entertaining.

This is getting better everyday!

@Nia

I am travelling at the moment, so my contributions to our little intellectual tango will be spottier.

You dodged my question Ok then.

I have just 1 minute to go, so I'd be quick. Me thinks the future of Nigerian women is that there will be a lot of single moms.