bump

Na waoh, people still dey on this matter. I beg, everyone should move on. There's no point flogging a dead horse. The court would decide the case. Let's continue to focus on moving Lagos forward. Fashola is working.

https://www.nairaland.com/939179/lagos-unveils-mega-rice-processing

My goodness the sort of ignorance I see here is quite amazing.

jigawatts:

Dont ever compare Doctors to Policemen..... Even as useless as our policemen are, they are still more important than doctors, they put deir own lives on d line to save us....... A doctor doesnt need to put his life on d line for anyone. Whenever dere is crisis... We still look forward to seeing our policemen at d crisis point. Talking about policemen recieveing 'big bribes'.... Almost all dese doctors av very madt Private hospitals in Lagos metropolis....Thats more dan d bribe a policeman can never accrue in his lifetime.

Is this guy serious? Have you heard about HIV, hepatitis, tb, cholera, lassa fever to name a few? Would it be risking one's life to treat people with these diseases in Nigerian facilities with poor electricity, scarce protective devices and poor follow up treatment? How about handling distraught relatives and mentally ill patients? Do doctors walk around with guns ready to shoot such people in self defense?

lekawo26: ad do you know how much Doctors are also steal? drugs that's meant to be given for free (by WHO) are sold to people or hoarded...people are asked to do unnecessary tests (in the doctor's private hospital) just to make money...to see your doctor, they charge u a leg and arm and now u say policemen make a lot of money..I hate police officers, but the doctors are no better!!!!

What sort of hospital do you visit?
Do you think doctors disburse drugs? How do you know the test is unnecessary? Are you qualified enough to make that conclusion? And you also don't think doctors should charge consultation fees. What planet do you live on?

Wallie: Here are the duties of a doctor, at least in the UK, which should be similar to Nigeria's.

http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/good_medical_practice/duties_of_a_doctor.asp

. . . and those Doctors are remunerated adequately to enable them fulfil their own part of the contract!

Doctors here are also not obligated to work more than 48 hours a week if they don't want to. For any extra hours worked, there is a built in mechanism within the system (locum opportunities) to ensure that they are adequately compensated.

Of course, we all understand that medical practice is supposed to be a vocation and not a means to becoming stupendously rich; however you have to bear in mind that to attract the right people into the 'vocation' you still have to ensure that they are at least adequately remunerated for their 'services to humanity'. Contrary to what some people have been saying, Doctors are indispensable! If they were not, they would not be among the highest paid civil servants in almost all countries of the world. In Nigeria more so, because in spite of the hype the Lagos government WILL NOT be able to replace most of the Doctors it has sacked!

And no matter what people on here are now saying to justify the positions they are taking, Nigerian Doctors are not inherently worse off in terms of their attitudes to work than their counterparts from other parts of the world. After all these same Doctors that are so maligned in Nigeria still go abroad and excel in their various specialities and are able to relate well with their patients. Does that then not suggest that the problem is a systemic problem, located somewhere else and not within the Doctors themselves?

The fact that there is hardly any profession in Nigeria that fairs better in terms of their attitude to work would indicate that this is a systemic problem and not the fault of the Doctors per se . . . so if people really do have that inclination to curse, I would honestly suggest that they start by cursing themselves . . .

At the end of the day, as long as you’re weighed down by the pervasive rot in all sectors in Nigeria, y'all in the same shit with the much maligned doctors, so you really can’t take the moral high ground. If you did you wouldn’t be able to escape being labelled a Hypocrite!

In all sincerity, I think that if people wanted to be fair, they should try to identify the real cause of this whole impasse - this is not the time to play politics or be prejudiced by the negative experiences some people have had with some Doctors. The fact remains that not all Doctors are bad, and in spite of the media's painting of Doctors as cold blooded and heartless creatures, the true villains here if any, are not the Doctors . . . who themselves are just victims of an inept and corrupt system.

People are too quick to forget that some of these same Doctors were still going to work and providing skeletal service to ensure that the lives of the critically ill were preserved during the so called strike where they were asking that the government do what it agreed to do.

If there were to be a villain in this whole thing, the real villain here would be the one that has reneged on its agreement and then gone ahead to use all the resources at it’s disposal to play some kind of macabre 'politics', while remaining impervious to the suffering of the many vulnerable and already broken people who elected it to serve and protect them.

But then, the matter has gone to court. So let the court decide . . .

Men! Naija is a wrong place to practise as a Doctor. Lagos Drs I no envy you at all! I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel, Connect with your colleagues home and abroad and restrategize.

beneli:

. . . and those Doctors are remunerated adequately to enable them fulfil their own part of the contract!

How does one determine adequate remuneration? What does “adequate” mean? Isn’t adequate determined by supply vs. demand?

beneli:

Of course, we all understand that medical practice is supposed to be a vocation and not a means to becoming stupendously rich; however you have to bear in mind that to attract the right people into the 'vocation' you still have to ensure that they are at least adequately remunerated for their 'services to humanity'. Contrary to what some people have been saying, Doctors are indispensable! If they were not, they would not be among the highest paid civil servants in almost all countries of the world. In Nigeria more so, because in spite of the hype the Lagos government WILL NOT be able to replace most of the Doctors it has sacked!

Don’t know what “adequate” means but just like you said, doctors are “among the highest paid civil servants in almost all countries of the world.” Thanks for making my point!

beneli:

And no matter what people on here are now saying to justify the positions they are taking, Nigerian Doctors are not inherently worse off in terms of their attitudes to work than their counterparts from other parts of the world. After all these same Doctors that are so maligned in Nigeria still go abroad and excel in their various specialities and are able to relate well with their patients.

Exactly!!! If they’re not satisfied with their current employment, they’re free to go somewhere else but why hold the citizenry at ransom?

beneli:
The fact that there is hardly any profession in Nigeria that fairs better in terms of their attitude to work would indicate that this is a systemic problem and not the fault of the Doctors per se . . . so if people really do have that inclination to curse, I would honestly suggest that they start by cursing themselves . . .

Conjecture. Where did you get this from?

beneli:

If there were to be a villain in this whole thing, the real villain here would be the one that has reneged on its agreement and then gone ahead to use all the resources at it’s disposal to play some kind of macabre 'politics', while remaining impervious to the suffering of the many vulnerable and already broken people who elected it to serve and protect them.

But then, the matter has gone to court. So let the court decide . . .

Why won’t I renege on an agreement that I signed under duress or wasn’t a party/privy to? If people are suffering and dying, and all I have to do to alleviate the suffering for a while is just to sign a contract, I would sign it.

If your loved one is seriously sick and in need of an immediate life-saving surgery but the surgeon won’t operate unless you write him a $1,000,000 check, would you write it knowing fully well that you don’t have the money?

i can see that some people Will never see the light. These doctors knoW where to go when ill or where to take their family to. You don't. So who Will suffer. Lagos cannot afford this part fash is towing. For all you cursing pray not to get ill or better save better money.0

lets see how this film plays out.

Wallie: How does one determine adequate remuneration? What does “adequate” mean?

I admit that without a ‘Gold standard’ to use to determine what constitutes 'adequate remuneration', one can only be left spewing up ‘conjectures’. To give us some kind of a benchmark, I tried searching for what Doctors in countries, similar to Nigeria in level of development, earn but so far it’s like opening up a Pandora box of doom and gloom! It appears that our cousins in Ghana have also been in the habit of striking and on the receiving end of curses from the rest of the population!

So to answer your question, I don’t know what constitutes ‘adequate remuneration’. What i do know is that before I left Nigeria a decade ago, the amount of money I was earning as a medical officer was not ‘adequate’ to meet my needs. On arriving the UK and becoming an SHO with a similar level of responsibility, the remuneration i was compensated with, was ‘adequate’ for me as a single young man with extended family in Nigeria. It has since continued to increase with my increasing experience and responsibility, such that now that I have family and kids, my remuneration is still ‘adequate’ for the quality of life that I want to give to my family!

Another thing that I can add is that the person who wears the shoe, knows where it pinches - so if the Doctors in Nigeria don’t feel adequately remunerated, then they’re not!

Wallie: Isn’t ‘adequate’ determined by supply vs. demand?

Absolutely!

Wallie: Exactly!!! If they’re not satisfied with their current employment, they’re free to go somewhere else but why hold the citizenry at ransom?

The phrase ‘hold the citizenry at ransom’ is one way to look at the situation that developed following the governments reneging of what it agreed to do. Somebody else may see things as the Doctors and the citizens becoming victims of a government’s lack of integrity and insensitivity to the plight of its citizens. Strike actions, as already stated, happen in so many other countries and in none of them have Doctors ever been sacked!

The situation is as bad as it is now because the government sacked the Doctors and not because they went on strike. . .

Wallie: Conjecture. Where did you get this from?

Not Conjecture sir!

As already stated above I actually have worked in Nigeria as a Doctor. I have also since then had cause to deal with Nigerians of different professional backgrounds in the course of trying to do business in Nigeria or whilst trying to sort out personal matters. So, I do have reasonable experience of people’s attitude to work in Nigeria!

You may want to dismiss the statement as based on some fringe anecdotal exposures, but indulge me a little and tell me which professions in Nigeria can be held up as exemplary in their attitudes to work? If you can then I will so gladly retract my statement!

Wallie: Why won’t I renege on an agreement that I signed under duress or wasn’t a party/privy to? If people are suffering and dying, and all I have to do to alleviate the suffering for a while is just to sign a contract, I would sign it.

Let’s not forget that the agreement was made in 2009 and that Lagos is a state that I am made to understand pays members of legal family more than the national average. It is also a state that can afford to spend up to a billion (?) on the birthday bash of one of its elders! So clearly sir an agreement made by such a party would not be in the same league as one made by an individual such as yourself. And I say this not to belittle you in any way, sir!

Wallie: If your loved one is seriously sick and in need of an immediate life-saving surgery but the surgeon won’t operate unless you write him a $1,000,000 check, would you write it knowing fully well that you don’t have the money?

That’s a tough one!

To be honest I don’t know what i would do in such a rather precarious situation, but I suspect I wouldn’t write a dud cheque though – I never did have the opportunity to acquire that somewhat inelegant Nigerian trait (we're supposed to laugh out loud at this point)!

Armadeo leave them, as I have said there are many chemist, pharmacist, laboratories, nurses, churches, prayer houses and tradomedical/herbal medical practitioners in Lagos. There are even private hospitals run by 'oyibos' and since medicine is humanitarian I am sure they will treat them for free. You have alternatives so use them and leave the useless doctors to their fate.

as far as my opinion goes, the practice of medicine (or trying to nail someone's practice) in nigeria is like attempting to throw a cat on it's back.

No matter which way you manouver it, or how hard you try, just cant be done- it will still land on it's feet.

for most of these doctors, its all about opportunity- closing one door simply helps them open another.


though those positions with the lagos state govt are lucrative and highly coveted ones, but we'll see how it all pans out.

whoever wants to travel abroad should travel sha, and see what their colleagues are "enjoying" there.

allycat: Armadeo leave them, as I have said there are many chemist, pharmacist, laboratories, nurses, churches, prayer houses and tradomedical/herbal medical practitioners in Lagos. There are even private hospitals run by 'oyibos' and since medicine is humanitarian I am sure they will treat them for free. You have alternatives so use them and leave the useless doctors to their fate.

Allycat you're so right, never thought of it this way. Since everyone's doing humanitarian work and it is free....let them choose and let people be. It's a free world, I think we should make no more statements on this, let them say and do as they wish...Lagos state, e ko ni death o!

afrodoc:

Kai! Some Nigerians have made a vow against knowledge and unfortunately you seem to be one of them.do u expect hospitals to be owned by mechanics or architects? you people sit inside your bedrooms and make proclamations that you can't back up.St Nicholas was established by d late Chief Dr Majekodunmi who was the Min for Health as far back as during the Balewa govt in the 1960s.so r u comparing him to the young doctors who are being underpaid now and were not even born when St Nicholas was established? is he one of the "normal doctors o" that you mentioned own those big hospitals? its this type of beer parlour logic that is misleading people

I think people like u should be in the Zoo. i use to believe that being a Doctor is a Humanitarian calling. how can someone that want's to save life, abandon his duty post all in the name increment in salary.(do u know how many people died as a result of their greed). Can u compare the Salary of a Medical Doctor to a class room teacher or even the Nigeria Police? yet they keep making frivolous demands. pls note the following. Lagos state Doctors are the Highest paid state Doctors in Nigeria. therefore, if they (Doc) starts like this, what do u think will be the fate of other state. i think Fashola got this one right. people like u that either Doctors or have friends and Family members that are one should have a rethink. Bleep Lagos State Doctors, Bleep Medical Guilds and Bleep u.

amosy007:
must u insult while posting ur view? I went thru his post nothin like insult.. Do u think insults will make ur post acceptable? U no try at all

ayox2003: Whats the fuse about striking Doctors? Doctor strike everywhere in the world. Even in the west where life and working condition is better. Some NLers are not sane at all. Your governor is the first gonernor in the whole world to sack striking Doctors and some folks are hailing him here. Has he replaced them? People are dying! Plus he doesnt even receive treatments in those hospitals. So the Doctors are asking too much right? 31million additional payment for 1000 people every MONTH is too much, right? Thats less than 1.6% of what he spent on Tinubus birthday for a WEEK! So 200K is too much for a fresh Doc right? Una be mumu. No wonder Nigeria is always backward!
Example of people who voted for GEJ and not PDP.
Go to Marina general hospital and see how Lagosians are suffering.
SMH.

you are approaching the matter from the tail and not the head. The governor didn't kill the dying patients, neither did he initiate the strike, it was the doctors who have chosing to inflict pain on Nigerian and reduce our population by killing innocent people in the hospitals, all bcus you want to add N30m to your fat salaries. U just mentioned 200k for a fresh graduate, bearing in mind that this is a state govt institution, at what level do u earn 200k in the state civil service? answer the question. You guys need to be considerate, remember that God is watching us all. last year u went on strike, the same thing two years ago, are u the only employees of govt? haba!

Yesterday, in Ifako Ijaye GH. 2 doctors were operating on a patient when one suddenly passed out. The other did what he could but of course the patient died. Will Lagos State say anything about this, NEVER.....Lagos is working, fashola is trying,Lagosians are dying. Anyway from what I'm hearing, igbobi, luth, yaba psychiatric and fmc ebutte metta are striking from tomorrow. Na to pray,be careful and watch drama and smile

Some comments here are as useless as the Pope's testicles!