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Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 10:58pm On Apr 15, 2013 |
Bidam: By looking at the world today, you should know the hell threat is useless. It insults God more than it scares any thinking person. And it's just plain false. Worship the loving God because you truly love Him and believe in His righteous and just ways, not because you fear He'll burn you eternally. Clearly, the Bible shows that the idea of burning humans alive in fire did not come up into God's mind, calls it an abomination. Jer32:25 'And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination , to cause Judah to sin.' It was common pagan practice of Baal worshippers to sacrifice life children in fire and it disgusted God. It's a big insult to God and an obvious work of Satan to say God will do same. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 11:20pm On Apr 15, 2013 |
TroGunn:WRONG.the reward of eternal life is NOW. John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. John 5:24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES ARE JW TWISTING AND DISTORTION TO SUIT THEIR PERSONAL INTERPRET IONS..OFCOS YOU ARE ONE AND THERE IS NO POINT ARGUING WITH THE WATCH TOWER ANYWAY...I SMELL THEM ALL OVER THIS THREAD AND THE LIKES OF FROSBEL WHO CLAIM HE IS NOT..SUCH HYPOCRISY. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 11:26pm On Apr 15, 2013 |
Bidam: WRONG.the reward of eternal life is NOW. Kindly explain John 14:3 |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by shdemidemi(m): 10:42am On Apr 16, 2013 |
[quote author=frosbel][/quote] John 14 v 3 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by shdemidemi(m): 11:19am On Apr 16, 2013 |
We must understand that salvation was for only the Jews and proselytes before the death of Christ. The condition for being righteous was different under the law. Therefore, everyone that died before the death of Christ won't be judged by Christ cos they were saved under the law through sacrifices for atonement. In the above verse Christ is telling us He will go prepare a place for people who believe in him. (This exclude those who had died before the death of Christ) |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by shdemidemi(m): 11:25am On Apr 16, 2013 |
Our faith and confidence is the hope of His coming. He shall come to get the church "the living and the sleeping saints" just as He has promised. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 12:50pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
frosbel:and why should i? Until you tender an apology for editing, misapplying, misrepresenting and misinterpreting what i said before i obliged you. Infact why should i anyway, i don't give that which is holy to dogs and neither do i cast precious pearls before swines least they trample on them like you are doing to others in this thread and other threads. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by ijawkid(m): 12:51pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
Bidam: WRONG.the reward of eternal life is NOW. Lol @ the bolded..... So there is no more ""he that endureth to the end is the one that would be saved""?...... Eternal life is futuristic my bro...stop saying things you don't really know...if you have eternal life now then I guess you aren't gonna get old in this world........... Bidam if I see grey hair for your head we go fight ...........if you ever get old we go fight too........ |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 12:55pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
Bidam: and why should i? Until you tender an apology for editing, misapplying, misrepresenting and misinterpreting what i said before i obliged you. Infact why should i anyway, i don't give that which is holy to dogs and neither do i cast precious pearls before swines least they trample on them like you are doing to others in this thread and other threads. You were misapplying the word of GOD as you are apt to do. Repent from your error lest you mislead others to ruin. The resurrection whether spiritual or physical for the dead in Christ is at a future date, no one, except Jesus has resurrected, and his resurrection is significant in that he has elevated us into heavenly places, but this does not mean we have resurrected. Why can't you guys if you have the truth provide an answer to one simple question, if the dead are in heaven or hell then the resurrection is worthless , a pretend event, a show and a deceptive one at that. Answer this simple question , what does John 14;3 mean , if you cannot answer then ignore rather than say more misleading things that might come back to haunt you. btw , why did you run away from my other thread on the resurrection and it's significance ? You provided a somewhat haphazard response which was in no way aligned to my questions. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 12:57pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
shdemidemi: Our faith and confidence is the hope of His coming. He shall come to get the church "the living and the sleeping saints" just as He has promised. but if the sleeping saints who existed at the time of Jesus are in heaven with him, why was he telling them in John 14;3 that he is coming back for them, did he come in some secret rapture that no one is aware of ? |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 1:30pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
frosbel:you twisted what i said just like you twisted scriptures about hell.The bible did not mince words when describing hell. hell is hell. you only quote scriptures to suit your mischief when you notice you are about to loose an argument. Repent from your error lest you mislead others to ruin.LOL..who is the false heretic teacher on nairaland? let others judge NOT you. The resurrection whether spiritual or physical for the dead in Christ is at a future date, no one, except Jesus has resurrected, and his resurrection is significant in that he has elevated us into heavenly places, but this does not mean we have resurrectedphysically maybe..BUT in the spiritual context i don't agree.Do you know what it takes to be born of the Spirit? Why can't you guys if you have the truth provide an answer to one simple question, if the dead are in heaven or hell then the resurrection is worthless , a pretend event, a show and a deceptive one at that.The scriptures are in symbolic codes..you are looking at those scriptures with the eyes of JW. Repent and Christ will show you His mysteries. Answer this simple question , what does John 14;3 mean , if you cannot answer then ignore rather than say more misleading things that might come back to haunt you.For swines this scripture will be difficult to understand.since you have your own personal interpretation which is literal i believe. if i tell you what Jesus meant will you believe? btw , why did you run away from my other thread on the resurrection and it's significance ? You provided a somewhat haphazard response which was in no way aligned to my questions.i never did. i just quoted some scriptures for you to ponder on. but i guess it will be futile trying to show you your folly. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 1:36pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
ijawkid:that is always the problem with JW.LET US START WITH ELEMENTARY STUFF. WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND BY THE WORD FAITH? IS IT NOW OR FUTURE? |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 1:51pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
TroGunn: By looking at the world today, you should know the hell threat is useless. It insults God more than it scares any thinking person.OK. now i get the picture. the philosophies of men has now taken over what God has said in your bible abi? And it's just plain false. Worship the loving God because you truly love Him and believe in His righteous and just ways, not because you fear He'll burn you eternally.that's where you err my brother. you neither know the scriptures nor the power in it. we love GOD because He first loved us and not the other way round. that was why i asked you why did JESUS has to die for sinners? YOU ARE YET TO GIVE ME A REASONABLE ANSWER. Clearly, the Bible shows that the idea of burning humans alive in fire did not come up into God's mind, calls it an abomination.your personal interpretation no doubt which has nothing to do with eternal judgement. Jer32:25 'And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination , to cause Judah to sin.'since the devil can deceive people like this and is disgusting. Don't you think the devil is no fool concerning the wrath to come? the might deceive you and others concerning hell just like eve was beguiled and deceived but not saints who understand the will, mind and purpose of God. 2 Likes |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by true2god: 2:47pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
Pygru: Frobel is very deceptive!R u just aware? 2 Likes |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by ijawkid(m): 3:03pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
Bidam: that is always the problem with JW.LET US START WITH ELEMENTARY STUFF. WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND BY THE WORD FAITH? IS IT NOW OR FUTURE? Lol...talking about living forever it is futuristic....I don't understand how you want to obtain eternal life now without God bringing an end to this system......why on earth do you think you need to endure to the end??...why are you still suffering from old age and death??..... Faith is what would make one endure to the end....... |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 3:55pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
No wonder Nigeria is in an abject mess, if these are the calibre of Christians left we are almost doomed, but I know God has reserved a few who have not bowed the knee to baal. Bidam is a true reflection of all that is wrong with the Nigeria brand of Christianity, seeped deep in biblical malpractices, cannot properly divide the word of God, will not debate with facts, rather chooses blind faith and tradition, dumps reason and logic in favour of irrational beliefs etc. One in his team, in the same article, talked about demons drinking blood while belonging to a church that spends 90% of their efforts on chasing perceived enemies, including witches, demons, wizards, monsters and all manner of creatures. Tell me, how can these people who rely on the whims and caprices of men, ever come to a knowledge of the truth? |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 5:23pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
Bidam: OK. now i get the picture. the philosophies of men has now taken over what God has said in your bible abi? that's where you err my brother. you neither know the scriptures nor the power in it. we love GOD because He first loved us and not the other way round. that was why i asked you why did JESUS has to die for sinners? YOU ARE YET TO GIVE ME A REASONABLE ANSWER. My point is that only the truth from the Bible can lead to real change in people, not false eternal fire punishment scaremongering. Now I answered clearly with scriptures why Jesus came to die so we can have a release from the shackles of sin and death that Adam's got us into. Do go and reread my post again, slowly. If you have a point to make, please do and back it up with the scriptures. You must know that God cannot contradict himself, since God is not confused. It's wrong and deceitful to pick scriptures out of context that seem to fit your preheld, centuries old, pagan-derived doctrines and completely ignore the numerous other verses that clearly indicate something different and gives a more holistic view of the matter. A real Christian believes all of the scriptures and comes to an understanding or belief that is not contradictory to other key biblical teachings, such as the resurrection. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 6:26pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
TroGunn:you are still not getting it are you? i don't have the time for frosbel and is heretic teachings but it's like you have a good HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDERS THAT IS WHY I AM REPLYING YOU.Nobody is disputing the fact that OUR GOD IS A MERCIFUL, LOVING FATHER.YOU are just picking one part of the scripture and discarding others.This is NOT a pagan derived doctrines BUT REALITIES FOUND IN SCRIPTURES. AM NOT THE ONE SAYING THAT GOD WOULD PUNISH SINNERS BUT IT IS THERE IN THE BIBLE. Have you NOT READ OUR God is a consuming fire, a God of vengeance and wrath? you also go read the bible.it is indeed a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the LORD. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 6:49pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
^^^ Learn The Origin of Hell-Fire in Christian Teaching |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by true2god: 7:01pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
frosbel: No wonder Nigeria is in an abject mess, if these are the calibre of Christians left we are almost doomed, but I know God has reserved a few who have not bowed the knee to baal.To start with, which church/assembly/congregation are u identified with? Who is ur role model in this contemporary christian era? Having noticed the 'mess' in christianity in naija, do u have a ministry dat attempt to set things staright? Jesus called the pharisee, 'wolves in sheep clothings'. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 7:05pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
true2god: To start with, which church/assembly/congregation are u identified with? Who is ur role model in this contemporary christian era? Having noticed the 'mess' in christianity in naija, do u have a ministry dat attempt to set things staright? Jesus called the pharisee, 'wolves in sheep clothings'. I belong to the church of God which is his body, not some man made organisation created to fulfill the vision of one MAN. Just to let you know, Pharisees are those who put burdens on the children of God and make their walk with him greivious. "Yes," said Jesus, "what sorrow also awaits you experts in religious law! For you crush people with unbearable religious demands, and you never lift a finger to ease the burden." - Luke 11:46 |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Pygru: 7:41pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
frosbel:and what about the first allegation. |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 8:16pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
Bidam: you are still not getting it are you? i don't have the time for frosbel and is heretic teachings but it's like you have a good HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDERS THAT IS WHY I AM REPLYING YOU.Nobody is disputing the fact that OUR GOD IS A MERCIFUL, LOVING FATHER.YOU are just picking one part of the scripture and discarding others.This is NOT a pagan derived doctrines BUT REALITIES FOUND IN SCRIPTURES. AM NOT THE ONE SAYING THAT GOD WOULD PUNISH SINNERS BUT IT IS THERE IN THE BIBLE. Have you NOT READ OUR God is a consuming fire, a God of vengeance and wrath? you also go read the bible.it is indeed a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the LORD. It's getting cyclic now. Sure, God will punish the unrepentant wicked along with Satan. Good you mentioned God is a consuming fire. He can't have the wicked consumed as by fire and at the same time keep them alive eternally? Another look at an oft quoted verse misapplied for eternal torment for the wicked: Matt 25:41 'Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels'. Clearly, the devil and his demons were the first to be condemned. They are spirit beings so literal fire couldn't have been implied. This becomes glaring when other verses like in Revelation are compared. Rev.20:14,15 'Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire'. The fire symbolism becomes clear - death and Hades (Greek for place of the dead, also sometimes translated as hell) are also thrown into same fire the devil is thrown into. Surely neither death, nor grave is a person to be tormented. The meaning is clearly a final removal of the devil, his angels, death, graves. So no more dying thus no more graves, no more Satan. Destroyed completely as if by fire. All the major pagan religions believe in a place of torment of sorts, and like other pagan-influenced beliefs, some people thought it cool to try to taint Christianity with it. In the end, we can argue till we are blue in the face but if you don't have the right attitude to reason and think for yourself, then it's all a waste of time. Much better to follow this advice: Rom 12:2 'Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect'. -New Living Translation (©2007) |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by truthislight: 9:47pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
Bidam: and why should i? Until you tender an apology for editing, misapplying, misrepresenting and misinterpreting what i said before i obliged you. Infact why should i anyway, i don't give that which is holy to dogs and neither do i cast precious pearls before swines least they trample on them like you are doing to others in this thread and other threads. See this day light liar. Keep quite! You said Resurection has already occured. What has spiritual death to do with the rich man and lazarus story? Your character tells alot about you. The day you cry because someone dies is the day your foolishness will show you how extremely foolish your statement hear is. Why not die now since it is a good thing for you? Why do people cry when this good thing you talk about happens since that is not what God wants to remove? Why did Jesus give way to tears about lazarus death since his friends death was a good thing? Why did Jesus have to bring him back from heaven to have to suffer and die again? That there is a spiritual death means there is no literal death abi? Your misrepresentation of God will be God's place to deal with. This is the reversal of what happened in eden: "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:2-4) ......................................... I supposed that ^ is a "spiritual death" to you. Smh for this your rubbish. 3 Likes |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by alexleo(m): 11:24pm On Apr 16, 2013 |
@frosbel, Thanks for your responses. From your responses it appears you didn't really understand some of my submissions but its ok. We have our different convictions about this issue. And like u said in one of your post here that you stand by your convictions on the judgment day I equally say that I stand by my convictions about this matter too. It is very easy for me to believe what you are teaching since after all the punishment is much lighter than the one I believe but the conviction is not there at all in me. There are some teachings you posted that I got convinced about some part of it and I changed my views but I ve not experienced such on this issue so I stick to my stand. I like the way both of us discussed now. Its not a must that we ll agree but one learns one or two things in such cool discussions than when we are fighting. Am sorry too where I offended u in my reactions the other time and ijawkid. As long as this tempo is maintained am ok with discussing. Whatever stand I take on any issue here is based on my personal convictions and not because of my church that's why I don'like my church to be brought into it. When we want to discuss church we do it sperately. Thanks |
Re: The Rich Man And Lazarus by Nobody: 10:33pm On Jul 17, 2013 |
FYI |
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