Edeyoung:



You're fighting yourself bro

Benin never had full fledged influence on all the territories around it, neither did the British have full control on every tribe in the now nigeria but the British influence spread across every tribe despite even if the British presence wasnt felt in all tribe



Your problem is you have never studied benin histtory


Benin present wasnt felt in all southern tribe but its economic and political influenced stretched around the now southern nigeria the oba of benin controlled trade of all southern to the Europeans


What caused the benin-British war was benin stoping the core east traders i mean eastern ibo traders from selling to the British without him giving orders and the eastern ibi never really had any benin military or cultural influence on them but his economic influence covered them

The oba of benin later stoped all southern nigeria traders from selling to the British without his orders, traders from core east, ijo, ijebbu and the others trading with the British and they complained to the British reason for no trade, it became obvious that benin had to go down before trade could go on effectively with the British


Benin conquered for trade benefit, they dont just wage war aimlessly

Now you see benin had control over southern nigeria and her presence spread over southern nigeria of today,


Please read more on benin history the British didnt call benin empire for nothing


Stop looping benin in the useless category you put it

The British Empire & Benin are a totally different kettle of fish.
Give me a source which states Benin had total control of the trade between the Bight of Benin to the Bight of Biafra.
Nri had far more influence in the east than Benin yet it isn't an empire.
Oyo arguably had a vassal states yet you do not quality them for empire status.
You even claim that the Sokoto Caliphate wasn't an empire.
I agree with all your statements but that does not make Benin an empire I'm sorry.
For you the only Empire in west Africa was Benin...

ABULARdotCOM:


So no universities in Bayelsa, abi? Well done! Don't let them see this o.

Just say you don't know lol

Edeyoung:



Bro i addressed alk this in my mention to you benin never had conflict wars with any European till 1897,the benin unpreparednes and full military attacks on benin prompted benin early defeat, benin surrender was on the oba orders

The military attacks used to fall benin was used in your so called ashanti and it fell in days lesser than benin who fell minths later

Guy something tells me you have really not extensively read benin-British war or probably you're not thoughtful to reason beyond what youre typing

I'm not even arguing that point, my issue here is the duration of the war, that the Xhosa wars are considered to be one major conflict in history just like the English and French 100 years war.

Plus I'm making very basic statements and you keep going off on a tangent about something else entirely, or misunderstanding what I'm trying to point out.

bonjovi787:


Thanks for your correction on "britain". Why did I make such a silly mistake, maybe it is because I care so much about when "britain" came to existance. I care so much...
Look you are a retard. No need to continue this discussion. Several wars doesn't equal one war. You can't shape reality as you want no matter the Charles "accademic" support which you claim to have; It doesn't matter. It might impress morons, but I am educated and itelligent so I don't buy the b.s.

No need for sarcasm mate, Britain was once your colonial master, show some respect for your nations forebearers.

France has lost a battle. But France has not lost the war ~Charles de Gaulle 1940. This is a very common expression you should be familiar with.

[quote author=ABULARdotCOM post=96836534]

So no universities in Bayelsa, abi? Well done! Don't let them see this o.[/quote

Just say you don't know lol

ABULARdotCOM:


Settlements that they are minorities in! Now you want to compare them to Mongols who have their own country and can boost of influences in Asia and Eastern Europe. Anyway, it is your opinion and you are free to have yours.

Was it not the same Fulani that Yoruba pushed out of their land? I said they didn't have access to the lastest weapons that Yoruba people had, having cavaries with dane guns can not be compared to people who were importing cannons from the west.

Why didn't they attack Yoruba people during the civil war, when Yorubas were most vulnerable? Anyway, you are free to dream up anything you like here also, but the fact remains that they were pushed out of Yoruba land at Oshogbo and not Ibadan. And they never dreamt of coming down south again. You know why?

The Yoruba's had a lucky escape, the British saved their arses otherwise they would have become subjects of the great Sultan to the north.

God Bless the British!

ABULARdotCOM:


Then I think you are fabricating history here. You can't be the same person drumming and also dancing to your beat. Only the opinion of outsiders would hold water here.

Is this assertion also backed up by Ijaw historians, at the least?

Please find me some sources because I've not yet come across any from Ijaw historians, would help me out a lot thanks!

bonjovi787:

So someone compared the anglo-xhosa wars with the 100 year british french war, therefor the anglo-xhosa wars are one and only one war ?

Your brain needs food, it is starving, eat please.

Firstly its the English and French 100 Years War not "British", Britain wouldn't be an entity until 1707...

Read what I said! They have been compared due to their likeness in longevity, which means they have been judged by academics like any other intergenerational conflict. A series of conflicts which contributed to the war as a whole.

Edeyoung:



Benin is an empire, it ruled outiside it tribe, igbo, kogi, urhobo, esan, yoruba and he had military power, economic power, social and cultural influences over vassal sate


And the sit of piwer was a city

Benin Kingdom is restricted to benin and its surrounding villages inside benin

Benin empire is areas like esan, urhobo, ijaw, ibos, yorubas areas it controlled

And it was noticeable

What part of Igboland do you refer to? I would love some sources because by my account I've never heard of Benin having any imperial presence over any province east of the Niger. Perhaps some Western Igbo communities but that's hardly an entire ethnic group is it.

Also Kingdoms can rule others, its the extant to which they rule & enforce imperium that dictates their political status. Benin never ruled the entirety of one single ethnic group or nation, apart from Edo and fractions of smaller tribes. How can this be considered an empire.

The map shows The Kingdom of Benin at its greatest territorial extant in 1580. Benin from this point in the 16th century was on the decline.
Please tell me if the map is accurate or not because based the statements you've made, the entire south west/eastern region should be under the "Benin Empire"

bonjovi787:


1) Actually the Anglo-Xhosa wars were several conflicts, not a single war. I know it arranges your argument to just make it one war and have it start at the beginning of the first war and end at the beginning of the last war. It is though amazing that you thought you would fool everybody with this crooked method.
2) If we shall go by your methods, then we shall say that the Benin-britain war lasted for 3 years. Indeed the first battle was in 1895 when Benin killed some british officers and their canon fodders who were trying to overthrow the Oba of Benin. That was the excuse the british used to justify the next conflict which started 2 years later.
3) Again, the anglo-ashanti wars were several conflicts, not just one !
4) Some Benin generals did continue the fight after the fall of Benin city.

And nobody is exagerating the scope of Benin, it is recorded in precolonial maps, in precolonial notes and all. Reading these precolonial documents is not synonymous to "exagerating".

I think you have low self-esteem issues. And you are extremely dumb. I didn't read all you wrote, In two sentences of your write up, I already had two much inaccurate claims of yours to write about.

No you are wrong, the Xhosa-Anglo wars have been compared to the English & French 100 (116) years war due to its longevity as an unresolved conflict. There were 56 conflicts from 1337 - 1453 between the two European powers yet they're all part of one big major war. The Hundred Years War. The same logic applies to the Xhosa wars, its an issue of semantics.

Again no, the Benin Expedition concluded the war after the British raised Edo to the ground and Benin's administrative and military structure collapsed and the royal family was exiled.

After Benin fell in February 1987 there were small pockets of resistance, yes this is true but the war was over, it was irrelevant.
Japan officially signed the peace treaty with the allies in august 1945 ending WW2, but did you know that some Japanese soldiers did not surrender till as late as 1974 and beyond. Hiroo Onoda was one such man, an intelligence officer of the Imperial Japanese Army who was hiding out with three of his fellow soldiers on a small island in the Philippines. He was only relived from his duty when an old commanding officer came in the name of Emperor Hirohito to convince the old war veteran the war was really over.
Therefore by your logic Japan was still at war with the Allies up until 1974?
No because wars have a start date and an end date, a series of wars is still considered as one overarching war. Once and enemy is totally defeated by conquest or total surrender the war is over.

Also there's no need for personal attacks, this is a healthy debate and we can agree & disagree that's the beauty of discussion, so please don't turn this into a train of insults, keep the discourse gentlemanly. Thank you!.

Edeyoung:



Oyo was nor an emire it was a kingdom made by a confederacy

Qualities which defies oyo to be ancempire


An empire is noticeable: oyo was said to be an empire after the Europeans have settled in nigeria for abour 100yrs and yet it wasn't noticeable to the British or European, what kind of empire is that

It never had military or economic sovereignty over it vassal

All vassal refused they were ruled by oyo or even deniel oyo having sovereignty over it

Only dahomey claim and accept such account, the part oyo ruled on dahomey was the yorubas soeaking part who had migrated due to war

I Agree with you, I have been arguing that Oyo was not an empire, just like Benin

ABULARdotCOM:


And after Togo is what what country? Please stop arguing blindly. Oyo empire fought the Ashanti kingdom in defense of its tributary. I

I never said it reached the borders of Ghana through conquest, but through influence! Those tributaries (the Ga group of people and Dahomey ) relied on Oyo for protection and they paid in return (Thornton, John K. (1999). Warfare in Atlantic Africa 1500-1800. London and New York: Routledge. ISBN 1-85728-393-7., p. 79.) . Same with some Northern Nigeria kindoms like the Borgu kingdom.

Now please share a reputable source for your so called Aro confederacy. And please don't quote some Igbo historian. Thank you in advance.

Now that you have specified influence your statement makes more sense, don't just talk actually make sense when you do so.

The sources are mainly from Igbo historians because guess what... Aro-chukwu is Igbo, you don't expect someone else to write our history for us.
The following links are form reputable publishers.

Here are some sources:
https://www.britannica.com/place/Arochukwu
[/b]Nwauwa, A. O. "Integrating Arochukwu into the Regional Chronological Structure." History in Africa 18 (1991): 297-310. Accessed December 7, 2020. doi:10.2307/3172068.[b]
[/b]Nwauwa, Apollos O. "The Evolution of the Aro Confederacy in Southeastern Nigeria, 1690-1720. A Theoretical Synthesis of State Formation Process in Africa." Anthropos 90, no. 4/6 (1995): 353-64. Accessed December 7, 2020. http://www.jstor.org/stable/40463184.[b]
[/b]The Slave Trade and Culture in the Bight of Biafra: An African Society in the Atlantic World G. Ugo Nwokeji[b]

ABULARdotCOM:


The same Sokoto calipate that ran when they saw standing cameras for the first time and thought they were machine guns?

You don't know how backward they were becoming without contact with the west through the sea. The northern empires were able to grow in the olden days because of its connection to the Arab civilization, but immediately the Arabs were declining, they were even declining faster!

There empires look large on the map because most of those regions they covered were desert regions. No one wanted to live there hence there easy claim to it. A good example of country that they large on paper but only have little people occupying them are Russia, Canada and Niger republic. Most of the so called land mass has no inhabitants, so no one to contest their claim to them.

The Nomadic tribes of the north would have conquered the west eventually, the only reason they stopped at Ibadan was because of the terrain, it wasn't good for cavalry. but they would have overcome it eventually... I don't think you realise the swift devastation of nomadic tribes.

Canada is part of The British Empire (even if it doesn't officially say so)
Russia, along with eastern Europe and most of Asia was conquered by the Mongols who were nomadic very much like the Fulani's.
The Fulani are the Mongols of Africa, they have established countless kingdoms from Senegal to Sudan.

The first map is the Sahel steppe a vast lowland savanna arid grassland which the Fulani have primarily inhabited since at least 900AD, this is why they are present in most west African nations today.
The second map is the Eurasian steppe, which numerous nomadic peoples have inhabited for centuries from the Scythians, Huns, Tuvans to the Mongols etc...

ABULARdotCOM:


Now you see the deceit in your picture without a date? By 1880 Oyo empire was declining or has declined. so it shouldn't be in that map at all. What remained of it was Ibadan, which was trying to replicate its hegemony, and Ibadan didn't rule that region in the map you are sharing.

At it's height the reached the borders of present day Ghana (see the picture below).

nothing I have said is controversial, Oyo never reached Ghana through conquest that is just an outright lie... even the map shows it only goes as far as the Benin Republic, maybe Togo... but certainly not Ghana.

The region was still a Yoruba region controlled by smaller Yoruba kingdoms regardless.

A kingdom in decline is still a kingdom indeed, Britain started to decline after WW1, yet the empire grew larger post WW2... decline does not mean complete collapse.

Edeyoung:




And i proved you wrong

If not for the British, the entire south west of Nigeria would have been part of the Caliphate, that's a fact.

Edeyoung:



Would you shut up before i stone you from here

Shut up your mouth i will tell you 100 reason why sokoto was not an empire nonsense


You see that book, i snapped they detailed sokoto caliphate carefully

Nor go talk wetin u nor go fit defend oo

Schloars dey here

I'm sorry but what I just read is not an argument against the Sokoto Caliphate being an empire, which it undoubtedly was. In fact the system of administration has some similarities to that of the House of Osman during the same time period.

Balogunodua:
I disagree....

care to elaborate?

ABULARdotCOM:


Why are you being mischievous? Where did you take the screenshot from? And why is your false representation of Sokoto calipate including parts of Yoruba land and other Middle belt minority kingdoms?

At what point in history does your false picture depict? Did you know at some point in history the Dahomey kingdom your picture excluded from Oyo Empire, was a tributary to Oyo itself? And what is parts of Kwara doing in the picture?

And can you provide documented proof of the so called "Aro confederacy" you smuggled into the picture? Thank you in advance.

The map is actually rather accurate as it represents the political state of Africa in 1880, I just focused on West Africa.

Dahomey Revolt 1823: the Oyo army sent by Oba Alaafin Majotu was categorically wiped out by the forces of King Gezo of Dahomey, thus ending Oyo's hegemony in the region. [/b]Alpern, S., 1998. Amazons Of Black Sparta. 2nd ed. [Place of publication not identified]: C. Hurst & Co., p.166.[b]
Therefore by 1880 Dahomey had not been a province of the Oyo kingdom for 57 years.

Kwara was formally part of the Oyo kingdom, until General Afonja rebelled and with the help of the Fulani's and local Muslim populations formed the Ilorin Emirate. Upon its formation power switched to Emir Abdusalami dan Salih Alimi -a Fulani- who's reign saw the IIorin Emirate become a vassal of the Sokoto Caliphate. [/b]Lovejoy, P., 2004. Slavery On The Frontiers Of Islam. 2nd ed. Princeton: Markus Wiener Publishers, p.55.[b]
The vassal state of IIorin continued to expand in the 1830's until it was halted at Ibadan where its borders remained relatively the same until 1897 when it was annexed by the Royal Niger Company.

Aro-Chukwu which lasted from 1690 - 1902 had the largest monopoly on trade (mostly slaves) within eastern/southern Nigeran and parts of west Cameroon. Please note that this was a "confederation" not an empire or kingdom so don't get confused. The map simply shows the area under the influence of the Aro-Chukwu trade monopoly. [/b]Chidume, Chukwudi & Nmaju, U. (2019). The Aro Hegemony: Dissecting The Myth And Reality. 8. 76-87. 10.33281/JTHS20129.2019.1.6.[b]

The map below is the full unedited version.