Well, you keep smiling like that,

you're welcome!!

Cole ,

if you'd like to know about South Africa , beyond matters such as 2010-World Cup and from a unique perspective, as well the languages and a

about the culture, speak to me,

Cole, you might look forward to your visit - to S.Afr MORE if you know more about and have a small grasp of these (such as very basic isiZulu , a smidgin of Afrikaans ),

COntact me on MSN Messenger: africabible@hotmail.com

Eh!

Stimulus, thanks for your respectful and reasoned approach -> you are no doubt a man who loves God and His WOrd!
Amen?!

However - it is 2 a.m. here - nevertheless in the dark and likely to my dear wife's chagrin I'll make what is likly a good attempt at a bad answer

Hmm, let's remember that the Romans quote is in regard to the Jews and those (like us) who are 'grafted in' and who can 'be cut off' - simply cut off from the Almighty God's favor us-ward. See?

Indeed such would be terrible-horrible, Yes yes YES InDEED God's action of so-doing would be reminniscent of a loving Father (say your's or say mine) adopting you/me as a son (yes? do you see , yes?!) and then 'cutting me/you OFF!!'
That would be painfull altogether to the point of it being oh so very severe!

NOW, my friend, I lovingly ask you to consider the Second Chapter of the Book Of ACTS of the APOSTLES: wherein it is stated clearly that Jesus 'could not be held of death' for he was sinless!!

Refer also to 1 Cor . 15 and there we see (v. 51 , think ) that Jesus died as RANSOM for mankind to RE-PURHASE that which Adam lost FOR all mankind -- Life-right!
We , you Stimulus and me BibleZap die ON ACCOUNT of Adam's disobedience. A baby, too without committing a sin, so dies on account of Adam's sin.

Be very careful of a statement likened unto that which you ask in regards to Jesus becoming "extinct' -never say that!

Without Jesus - ALL are lost!! With Him - ALL are saved! ! Please read John 12 : 32 .

Stimulus, respects man! I look forward to our further dialogue,, keep bringing the Scriptures,

Drusila, of Minesota , you said Africa has much food for its poor people <?> No , ?

Look, in Zimbabwe currently there is severe drought - the riverbeds even are dry , I MEAN dry dry , 'from whence then' and the food was said to have come from commercial-farmers<?> Right <?> where are they ?
The repression: Mugabe (purpotedly a good Roman Catholic) , Morgan Tsvangeri's treatment - shall whites be blamed?
Chimbusa (Nelson) , beaten with steal pipe and now cracked skull (was that the 'white devils or black ones'>?< )

For a fact, there is evil in Society --> oft this evil is less perceptible and sometimes it is more overt.

Did Hitler take his "Christianity' seriously ? Mussolini (in heart of Catholic Italy!)
Most of Hitler's staunchest supporters came from the ranks of the R.C.C. >> for that matter the
traders of Opium, to the (then) demise of China --> perpetrator = head of the C.of england -- can't get much 'whiter'

AS i read though now some of the recent posts I discover some of what is 'fair observation' , some political-intrigue/agenda and undeniable racial overtones and undertones --- much created on account of suppression or percieved repression, as well that the "white people" to whom you refer are (a) historically the Colonisers. (that is one thing) and though (b) is or is not <?> the current white populace in Africa <?> , this has not been defined/

May I ask you define the latter part of the (b) section ?

If, though btw, some feel that there is no distinction between the "white" in terms of the 'original coloniser' versus the current-day established African with a white skin, then it becomes the vitrolic diatribe of Marcus Garvey and (earlier) Malcolm 'X' and more comtemporaneously, Farakhan , hmmm ,

Which is it to be, tweedle-dee tweedle-dum, ?

PS. did/does the Bible ever sanction 'racism' and a 'White God' , premises, premises, proof ! pls

Hard LOOK at yoursleves --- who is " W E "

Hey, hellllo! The premise of this thread is flawed - serious -

READ it, think about it -- you;ve SEGREGATED them and [ us ] .

Why ? -- it perpetuates the official line of Apartheid -- has this racial bunk been INTERNALISED by you?

Sad!

Someone on this FORUM said that Maidiba! was the greatest African, agreed , and then READ what
he (Nelson Mandela) said in regards to the matter of "them and us".
You speak (some at least ) of Europeans - those who are seventh-eighth Generation African are not
European , they've most-part never been to Europe. Never seen nor affiliate with the interests, nor the apspirations of the countries of Europe, Why then, are they classified as "European" and "we" as African , ?

Every serious statement deserves a cogent and intelligent explanation.

(No answer there Seun) ,

Hmmm, little 'slight' borderline racism there cute_ass (Norway) will 'whip there white asses' *SO*
'']

Well. I m true African and white -- put us on the athletics track OR the pool , water polo, or in the ocean
(competitive Lifesaving) as well prone Surfing (known as bodyboarding) and we'll see --

But, Hell ! come to Basketball - I m useless - enjoy watching rugby (has anyone happened to follow the
last few games in the 'Super 14' ?) THe SHARKS (kwa-Zulu Natal) have given some awesome showings and proving to
the 'Kiwis' and others what ARICANS truly are , what WE are 'made of' and can achieve as a TEAM -
regardless of color , AFRICAN rules!

Backslider,
thanks for replying -- "people are evil" --- Yes Jeremiah 7 makes that plain.
God is righteous. Yes, ?

Sorry, maybe it's that I am 'missing something'. I do not quite see the connection, please help.
Thanks again!

I will not here and now post the many Scriptural citatations and the reasoning in view of support for the teaching of 'second death' (ultimate extinction) in opposition to the concept of 'eternal suffering', because no doubt much ground on this has already been covered by significant others (on this forum).
Rather than laying again a 'foundation' I shall first try read all other posts and not whom is "pro and con"

But, believe me when I say that, the Righteousness of the ALL Mighty is incongruent with Eternal Suffering.
One Scripture: "Romans 6:23 - "The wages of sin is death" - See; Not eternal suffering. -Death = Extinction. Yes?

I look forward to explaining that there are TWO SALVATIONS!!

that is what the BIBLE teaches

Not all go to heaven, now most have never even heard of the name above all names wherin one must believe (and therefore be obedient to the point of 'death-of-self-will' in order to 'enter heaven'.

The very fact that so much good is done by non-Christians, and by contrast- so much evil by Christians - should tell us that when Jesus in John 5:28-29 spoke of the Ressurection of the 'Righteous and the non-Righteous' , there are clearly two ressurections!

These two ressurections are emphasized in the last book of the Bible.
In Revelation the first ressurection is spoken of in distinction to the second ressurection!

Yes indeed, Revelation chapter 20 verse 6 gives it to us clearly that those raised first are (1) untouched by death, and (2) they rule over , those raised in the second ressurection (who still can die - they are not 'death-proof').

Just a start of a 'train' of thought - if you are a thinking person and not indoctrinated in a set-pattern:
Consider: who will be ruled over (if those going to heaven are to be 'Kings and Priests' - over themselves?)
Consider: who will inherit the earth (Jesus in Matthew 5 says the 'meek')

- I shall stop there -- looking forward to the responses! fFor More thought-provoking discussion- www.biblestudentsonline.net and click on the Discussion Board/Forum -- it's interactive! smile

Dewise, why??

Dewise, and any one else interested: I spent 11 years as one of Jehovah's Witnesses,

and oh! I would like to 'tell-all' and it's no 'tall-tale to tell'.

The WATCHTOWER-religion; hmmm , is it Biblical??
The matter of this religion must be measured against its 'Biblicalness' or lack thereof!
The reason should be plain! Do not J.W.'s emphasize that only one Religion is true?
Also; the WT (Watchtower) Society claims to have the authority, based on Matthew 24:45 to arbitrate as to what is True and what is False, together with the (so-called) fulfillment of a verse 31 verses earlier in the same 24th Chapter of Matthew - specifically Matthew 24:14; which 'speaks' of the 'World-Wide Preaching Work', okay?

I Propose to 'Look' at the above two Scriptures from Two Perspectives:
(I) Whether the J W interpretation and application is the correct one and,
(II) What alternative explanation is given by the (so-called) Russellite-group:
otherwise known as 'Bible Student Movement' -: which J W 's are told 'no longer exist'.

First, though I hope to see any thoughts from persons posting on this Forum: whether experiences
or Bible-based reasoning. I welcome the comments of both J W 's and those who are either fading or have officially been Disfellowshipped -- ON BASIS OF THEIR BELIEFS - (not for intentional wrongdoing).

Note here please that I am not 'anti-Jehovah's Witness'.
I am not what (your) elder's and Kingdom Ministry might call: an opposer.

Beware of Mind Control, ultimately the one blinding is Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4).

God bless. Biblezap!

I like this FORUM

It s great - (NOT JUST THIS thREAD) - I mean the FORUM , is STRUCTURE and has (believ u me!) a friendly tenor in comparison to some other FORUMS !

SOME are ALL SYRUPPY (spel?) and others all hell-fire and Brim-stone, ohm, helo , that reminds me where I am , oh vey!

Honestly, mate, Ive not read all the posts on this thread --- I -being human -- tend to gravitate toward those
that agree with my P.O. V.

small-testimony is that while at School , A RELIGIOUS EDUCATUION teacher tried to impress upon me
that there is a HELL-fire tormenting SOULS and then - at that time - I began to think he may been right??

Okay, I was 'betwixt and between' and being a minority person in a majority (black) S outh A frica
i could only speak to (x) people -- minority of people -- NO net then -- lot of (ANTI-Cult) literature ,
YOU know, next thing I was 'THROWN' in to a HELL-FIRe!! of sorts -- the ;war against 'the Communist Hordes'

That was 'fighting for the SaDF (South African Defence Force) and there there were thosuands in hospitals
(as we as 'whities' were given the right to work as 'voluntary medics' in black hospitals as Baragwanath and
Kalafang and others in the old Apartheid -regime South Africa) as well . WHAT Dawned on me was that
the "NO Hell _ ers" (particularly the Jehovah's Witnesses) as well Christadelphians : were the
oNES , as whites only were conscripted to 'fuel' the Apartheid MONSTER , by HELL-Believing
APARTHEID - Demons - Leaders ,


THINK abnout it , man , women ,, Friends -: I simply and kindly , sanely and saguely

ASK that you consider the messengers and their conduct and then their message
in-lieu there-of .

If you'd like Scriptures and reasoning and a FORUM (I have a S African Bible Study Forum)
then just P.M. me --- thank you (t y) k ?

Respects to the FORUM ADMINISTRTOR andthe guys and gents who started this FORUM

GOOD JOB

Cant believe what I m hearing

References to Surfing as 'white' thing ,
rather PLAY beach football , ??

LISTEN, slowpoke one and two , I am white, I am African
I surf

Oh, wake up

F Y I I m S African, and have surfed abroad for fame and , "HellO! " ignoramous, there's MONEY in surfing too,

ah, some here know, GLAD,, so good to hear,

FOR the rest -: this is FORUM -- international viewer-ship , and you'd like Nigeria to have visitors/tourists ,

ahhh INVESTMENT. YeS ! , NO ?

Like to see more surfing pic's -- Its my first post -- and likely some 'd like to see it be my last --

gt to know who ' I AM ' and why , what I stand for and where I ve travelelled and what I represent -



YOU ' ll change