alcuin

A book of fables. How can someone believe in the tower of babel? If God was so pissed with men that sought to build a structure to reach the sky, I wonder what he will do modern space scientist.

Stop poking holes in your argument Bros. The context of the story of the towel of babel never stated God was pissed - get your facts straight. Also, the earliest manuscripts of the new testaments are available for anyone interested in investigating if there accounts are historical accurate or not. Fable is Santa Clause and Father Christmas Bros. Fable is BigFoot and the genie in Aladin's lamp.

The world was flooded in 40 days by rain? Today rain falls for over 100 days in some pacific islands.

Your argument is similar to saying "You were born handsome but when you grew up, girls were not attracted to you". You can't argue from unrelated events.

Virgin birth Now seriously, if ur wife approaches u today and tells u that she's pregnant by the power of the Holy Spirit, would u believe.

I probably won't. Her spouse Joseph didn't either. The uncertainty was cleared up when an angel appeared to Joseph and explained what happened.

How can a reasonable person believe in a book whose writers never saw what are writing about. Paul never saw Jesus. Matthew, John, Mark, Luke are pen names of unknown writers.

Hahaha - another hole in your argument. You never saw Albert Einstein but it relativity theory is the corner-stone of physics. You never saw Alexander Graham Bell yet he is the inventor of the telephone. You can't and don't see the radio waves that travel through the air and displays on your TV yet it happens.

Pauls case is more interesting. Can u imagine Adolf Hitler after killing millions of Jews, taking a stroll to Berlin and said he has changed and started writing Jewish scriptures and expect the Jews to take me seriously?

Are you saying you have never done anything wrong and sincerely felt sorry about what you did and apologized for it?

Let me stop here

Please go on Bros

malvisguy212: Cloudstar. God bless you,base on the quran, no man can have that type of quality jesus had on the quran, it is only God that can walk the earth witou sin and performing miracle, giving life to lifeless clay.

Muhammad even disobey allah command.

Muslims honestly need to be objective if they want to put things in perspective. However, most of them have traded their common sense forthe account of a 7th century illiterate.

Empiree:

You are not a muslim. So one shouldn't expect from you any sense of positive reasoning. Average muslims know there are fabricated ahadith. Sorry, i am no Shia or Sunni by title. You keep saying that but your plan will not work

Awwwww, it seems I have hurt your feelings. No vex Bros. Your problem is that you don't know your religious history. It is sad because you claim to be a Muslim yet you ignore the very same history you claim to know. I don't have to be a Muslim to know Islamic history - my qualification is based on the fact that I can READ. If you are claiming Al-Bukhari is fabricated then you have no business discussing this matter, you are only making a fo.ol of yourself. Al-Bukhari is one of D MOST authentic hadiths that is respected by ALL Islamic schools of jurisprudence.

So, please go do more research before you engage in discussions you have no clue about.

Empiree

The above "hadith" is a fabricated hadith

Hahahahahaha - Fabricated! Coming from a Shia it's no surprise; anything that is Sunni is fabricated . How can you claim Al-Bukhari narrations are fabricated and in defense you used Youtube videos from 21st century Muslim clerics. For the love of God, how does your brain function?

Please take some time and learn about historical evidence. The closer to the source a narration or account is, the more reason to believe it is accurate. For example, Al-Bukhari account is about 150-250 years from the death of Mohammad. Your Clerics you posted are over 1,300 years. So, if we go by history, Al-Bukhari holds more historical reference Bros.

Also, you don't pick and chose which Hadith is fabricated and which is not. If Al-Bukhari is fabricated and his entire Hadiths and everything is them are false. Obviously, you don't hold such views. You guys are pitiful; You don't even know your history - pathetic!

LagosShia

very well versed indeed, to think that "original sin" is an Islamic concept. when you are ready to take Adam (as) as another "god" based on the Qur'an, then both of you would have a case because both Adam and Jesus (as) are "same" as per the Quran

Hehehehe - at this point, I will disarm your argument with two points:

1. Adam doesn't have the power of creation, Jesus does
2. Adam committed sin, Jesus didn't

There are too many holes in your argument Bros. I urge you to read up on your Islamic history.

LagosShia

bring out the verse that forbids "venerating objects", and i will bring you the verse from the Quran that permits "venerating objects".

The Quran condemns taking stones as objects of worship and veneration:

Surah 5:90 = O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.

So, if there is a verse in the Quran that instructs objects such as stones not to be venerated as idol worship and you claim there is a verse that instructs Muslims to venerate stones - why the contradiction? Can't Allah say one thing and mean it? Why is He given conflicting commands on the same issue?

you are resorting to red herrings. he did not marry any 6 year old nor did he sleep with any 9 year old. from historical evidence, before the Prophet (sa) engaged Aisha, she was already married to another man. this is a fact that is often not repeated by the bulk of Muslims for known reasons. and the idea she was 6 or 9 can easily be disproved, and it can be established from the same historical sources that she could have been as old as 13 or even 21 years old. but idiots like you whose holy evil spirit cannot guide them to offer any guidance only depend on how to blackmail others and resort to character assassination that would not do you any good.

If you were unable to read, most people would understand but you decide to go against history all the while proving how senseless you are
Al-Bukhari account which is one of the most authoritative Hadiths agreed on by nearly all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence recorded the following:

From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, a[b]nd at that time I was a girl of nine years of age[/b]."

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).

For Shias like you, you will want to cast doubt on Al-Bukhari Hadiths, claiming otherwise. Until you can write your own Hadith that is accepted as a historical proof, please sit down and learn from your own history

that would be best reserved for you and your likes.

According to Islam's most trusted historical sources, Muhammad used to dress up in his wives' clothing. Indeed, Muhammad even received revelations while dressed in his child-bride Aisha's garments, making him the world's first and only cross-dressing prophet. Can this really be God's last messenger? Can we trust the Qur'an when parts of it came to Muhammad while he was cross-dressing?

Again, let us school you in your own history:

From Sahih al-Bukhari, Hadith Number 2393
Volume Title, “Grace and its Virtues.”
Chapter Title, “What was Granted to the Companions and the Wives.”

Narrated by Ismail, narrated by his brother, narrated by Sulaiman, narrated by Hisham ibn Urwah, narrated by his father, narrated by Aisha who related that the wives of the prophet were divided into two groups. One group consisted of Aisha, Hafsa, Safiya and Sawdah while the other group consisted of Um Salamah and the rest of the women that belonged to the prophet. The Muslims had learned of the great love that the prophet had for Aisha so that if one of them had a gift he desired to give to the prophet, he would delay giving it until the prophet came to Aisha’s house. Then the group who sided with Um Salamah came to Um Salamah and asked her to tell the prophet that he should command the people that if any of them had a gift to give to the prophet, they should give it him in whatever house of his wives the prophet was in at the time. So Um Salamah went and talked with the prophet but he did not respond to her. When the group asked her what the prophet said she told them that he did not respond. So they asked her to go talk to him again until he responds… then the prophet said to her, “Do not hurt me with Aisha, for the inspiration did not come upon me when I was IN (fee) A WOMAN’S GARMENT (Thawb) EXCEPT THAT OF AISHA.”

I will leave you with this Hadith to grind

but he did not murder any 700 Jews. had he done that, one would expect the spot to be identified. nothing as such.

O boy - you are taken lying to a whole new level. Do you read your Islamic history at all? Whenever I make a point, I support it with authoritative Islamic historical reference i.e. Al-Bukhari narrations and Hadith. If you are interested in the historical account if this event, I will engage you.

we do not hate Jews. Muslims have issues with Zionist Jews. there are non-Zionist Jews too. when Christianity was persecuting Jews for killing their "god", it was Muslims who gave the Jews refuge

.

Look at how stupid you are! How many Jews do you personally know who are Zionist and who are not Zionist? The hatred of all Jews stems from Islamic teaching.

well, if you are right, at least we practice what we preach. as for you hypocrite who call yourself "christian", here is what your "Christ" said about them:

Luke 13:34
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

John 8:44
Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together , even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mathew 23:33
"You serpents, you generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell"?

Mathew 12:34
"O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".

Mathew 12:39
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas".

For someone that doesn't believe in the Bible, you sure have a knack for quoting it.

don't let satan fool you and lead you to increase in arrogance

When did Satan come into this matter? So far, I have been engaging you. If Satan is around, he is probably only related to you Bros

LagosShia

that is the hallucination of your "researcher". that is what he chooses to misunderstand. however, in unequivocal terms, this is what the Quran says:

The man has been a Muslim; he had read the Quran back to back. No one influenced him; he arrived at the conclusion himself based on the teachings from the very same Quran you read. He stated:

1. Jesus has the ability to give live to in-animate objects i.e. clay
2. Jesus has the ability to raise the dead
3. Jesus is THE WORD of Allah and THE SPIRIT of Allah. Mohammad doesn't even come close
4. Jesus was sinless by the Quran owns account. In lay man's term - he never sinned, he never had any faults. Which other human-being can you named in the Quran which was sinless?

The man is the video proved very interesting point. He wasn't a Christian or a buddist but a former Muslim.

"They are unbelievers who say, 'God is the Messiah, Mary's son.' For the Messiah said, 'Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with God anything, God shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.'" (5:72)

Apart from Jesus in the Quran - is there anyone else Allah gave the ability to create life, to heal, to raise the dead, to intercede for people and that is not dead but alive in Heaven? Why would Allah grant Jesus the abilities and characteristics of Deity? Why is Allah permitting Jesus to perfectly fit the description and fulfill the criteria which places one within the category of God?

"Say, "He is Allah , [who is the Unique] One, Allah , the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (Holy Quran 112)

There is no denying that the Quran rejects the Deity of Jesus but the Quran attributes titles, qualities and functions to Christ which only Allah can perform. Other titles given to Christ which affirm his essential Deity include the Word of God and a Spirit from God.

The expression "by God's permission" doesn't necessarily mean that Christ was given abilities he did not already have. The statements can be understood in light of the biblical teaching that Christ did nothing on his own initiative, but did everything in perfect union with his Father's will. (cf. John 5:16-30)

In other words, the Quranic expression simply implies that Christ only exercised his divine prerogatives in accordance with the decree of God, never acting on his own behest or initiative. It need not deny that Christ always had these divine attributes and characteristics. This becomes all the more likely when we recall that the Quran describes Christ as God's Word and a Spirit proceeding from God, titles which point to Christ's divinity and pre-existence.

proo212: Oh his facebook page, there's already a price on his head smh

That is the cost of speaking the truth in the Islamic world

Abdulsalam20: bro....we muslim we lovet prophet yisa[jesus..p.b.u.h],we respect him we salute him but we never worship him because he is not GOD because he is a prophet sent to d bani israila and not to the whole world even it is in d bible if u need d verse....and also note jesus is not dead like wat u pple think..if u need d verse in ur book ask.....AGAIN WE LOVE HIM WE RESPECT HIM BUT WE NEVER WORSHIP HIM..BECAUSE ALLAH IS ONE NOT TRINITY..even though ur buk is full of contradiction there's an evidence dat God is one nt trinity and note dat jesus has predicted d comin of prophet muhammed[s.a.w]...d fact is dat if i tel sum christians dat jesus was sent to d israelite they said No then why did u ignore d rules in d old testament u always said its for d israelite....wel dats all i ave to say

Another ignorant Muslim yapping the same 7th century Arabian theology every Muslim chant. You had a Muslim convert that researched the Quran and arrived at the conclusion that Jesus is God and you are hear preaching 7th century Arabian folk-tale

LagosShia:

actually, from past posts, these are arguments when taken further can be used to demolish Christian theology deifying Jesus. the arguments at face value are brilliant. i am not however endorsing whether or not this man was truly a muslim who really understood the Quran in the first place. i am saying this not to discredit his claim that he was a muslim, but because his claims clash with Islamic beliefs. for example, he said Mary (as) is described in the Quran as "free from original sin". in the first place, Muslims from all sects and creeds do not believe in the "original sin" as found in Christianity. in Islam, there is nothing as "original sin".

the claim is that Jesus (as) is the "word of God"-that God used His word (Be) to create- so therefore the word was "un-created" and must be God or part of God.

if any Muslim understands the Quran and is faced with this argument, this argument can be used to demolish Christian theology with a single punch, and also shake the faith of each and every Christian from the 1001 denominations and sects of Christianity that keep reproducing and multiplying like bacteria! going through the Quran, every Muslim knows Jesus (as) is the "word" and "spirit" of God because Jesus was created through God's word/command: "Be" and by God blowing His spirit for the flesh to take life. it is Jesus being made through that "word" in the first place that fondly gives him the figurative title of being "word of God". these actions described (i.e. blowing and commanding) are not literal but figurative, as you will shortly see explained. also every Muslim knows that not only Jesus (as),as per the Quran, was made in this manner,i.e. through the word and spirit of God. check this:

Adam was also "God's word" :

"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." (3:59)

Adam was also "God's spirit" :

"So when I have proportioned him (i.e. Adam) and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down to him in prostration." (38:72)

that aside, both the terms "spirit of God" and "word of God" are figurative as they demonstrate the manner in which these two prophets were created, and the Quran clearly says the similitude of Jesus is as of Adam (as). or else, have you seen a "word" that has a head or hands? it doesn't at all mean that God creating them with His word/spirit so God is sending forth "Himself" to take human form or that Jesus is therefore "God incarnate" as Christianity believes. Jesus being the "word of God" is because the former was created in a supernatural manner through God's command. Jesus is "God's word", but God's word is not Jesus. if God's word is Jesus, then Jesus coming to earth means wherever God is found during that time, God was without His "word" or power to create, i.e. God's word was away on earth!!! and that is indeed fallacious. we are talking here of the same Jesus who is purported in the New Testament to have said: "on my own i can do nothing"! the point i am trying to make by saying that Jesus is "the word of God", but the word of God is not Jesus, is very simple; otherwise, this so called Muslim should show us where the "word of God" is called Jesus (as).

the simple point: if God had willed after He created Jesus to create many more like Jesus, God could have/can still do it through His word/spirit. God's word is not limited or contained only in one being. God's word is not literal nor physical but an abstract concept of God's power to create, which is beyond human comprehension or physical limitations. the power to create (as described through His spirit/word) is part of God's greatness. the word emanating from God and manifesting as Jesus (as) or Adam (as) can still be made by God into many more like Jesus and Adam (as). so this does not qualify Jesus to be divine/god,not exclusive/limited to Jesus (as) and does not vindicate Christians from polytheism when they worship a creature of the Creator, even if that creature was made through the extraordinary/through God's word.

Argument from assumption - if only it made sense . A fellow and former Muslim who seem to be well versed in the Quran arrived at a logical conclusion from the Quran and not the Bible. I applaud his scholarship - simply amazing

usba:

#FIXED

Clap for yourself - you have gained your recognition for the day - 1 Like

true2god: Cloudstar may God bless you, your manner of response is quite commendable. I am highly impressed.
As I have said earlier, and will always repeat, the hypocrisy, al-taqiyyas, and lies in muslims (and Islam) is legendary and unimaginable. The happenings in palestine is bad, but muslims will never believe that the palenstians were launching rockets to Isreal which prompted the Israeli responses.

On the issue of Iraqi ISIS expelling, raping, looting and killing christians in Iraq, to the muslims it is a normal thing. It is a religios duty commanded by mohammed (spit be upon him) against the 'infidels'.

I am very sure, I wont see any muslim protest, in any part of the world, against the atrocities being committed by the Jihadist against the 'infidels'. It is business as usual.

That is because most Muslims here on NL are not objective. I had a debate with one of them about venerating and worshiping objects in Islam. The Quran clearly forbids venerating and worshiping any object. Yet Mohammad kissed the black stone in direct dis-obedience to the Quran. I brought it to the Muslim attention and his response was - if Mohammad did it then it is correct. That is the level of reasoning when it comes to nearly every matter when you are discussing with Muslims. They put their God given reasoning aside and decide on every matter using the criteria - "If Mohammad did it, then it is right".

So if Mohammad married a 6 year old girl and slept with her at 9 then that is the standard. If Mohammad wore women clothing, then it is the standard. If Mohammad ordered the killing of over 700 captured Jews; then that is the standard - it is truly pathetic. We need to always speak the truth and refer to history to confront lies and misconceptions.

That is the same case here - Muslims hate Jews because the Quran said so and because Mohammad said so. You calls others pigs and monkeys just because a 7th century illiterate said so. I am not surprised because I grew up in such environments and at some point entertained the same thought. But thank God for His many mercies and His grace. Where would we be today if it was not for God.

Thanks for your support. I pray God will reveal Himself to all of us including our Muslim brothers in someway that we can understand and relate to. God bless you

Empiree: @Cloudstar

Coming from someone who hate others just because a 7th century Arabian illiterate told him to do so. Truly pathetic

usba: another clown schooled. My job is done here!

Schooled in what? Public display of your stupidity?

Empiree

Jesus christ! you quoted me yet you dont understand what you quote?. Gosh! For the last time, bring me your religious text to back up Jews' claims. It was you who said "God promised Abraham, Isaac and Jacob".

Are you high? I asked you a simple question. Does the Torah and Bible predate the Quran? You are here blabbing rubbish. It's a simple question enough

Thats means you should bring forward Divine Book revealed to Abraham(God's mercy upon him) because as far as I know it all started from him. He's known to Jews, Christians and Muslims as "father of faith". Onus is now on you. We muslims have no problem with God's promise to these men.

Of course you don't. The issue is the account of the Abraham you know. This question can be answered if you are honest enough to answer this simple question. Does the Bible and Torah predate the Quran?

It's clear from your replies that you didnt watch the videos. I am not using Quran for now. I said bring your Book let's talk. Leave Quran alone. But if you will keep wandering around, i wont reply you anymore. The video by White guy explains it all. And he used Jews and christian Bible. i:e your own Book to break it down. He barely used Quran. You getting on my nerve now.

Take a chill pill and sit down. The account of God's promise to Abraham is in the Torah and Bible. My question to you is simple - does the Bible and Torah predate the Quran? Going further - there are early manuscripts that predates when the Torah and Bible was compiled i.e. the dead sea scrolls. Abraham was neither Jew, Hebrew, Arab, Christian nor Muslim. He was from Ur and wasn't a Native of the land he wandered and lived in. He is set apart because He had faith in God and also had a covenant with God.

Empiree

CloudStar, I am not impressed with balderdash wrote up there. It is simple. Bring your religious texts and come forward. Period. You do not have any historical facts other than Jewish and Christian Bibles bcuz you mentioned Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Arabs and Muslims have no problems with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (May God's peace and Blessing be upon them). Anything else you said are irrelevant to this subject. We believe in Divine revealed Books prior to Quran. So bring them forward. If not, I wont reply you. You just wallowing around like cyclone.

Typical circular Muslim reasoning. You can refer to the Quran as a religious text yet you refuse to use other religious text that predates the Quran. Bros, I never used the Bible or Torah as evidence that the Jews and Israelite's own Palestine. I asked who can lay claim to the land. It was there that you went on your Quran rhetoric and started telling us about the revelation in the Quran. It was at this juncture that I informed you that the Quran can't be used as a historic text since it's account on so many issue is inaccurate. I also emphasized that if you are to use the Quran, then you should also use the Torah and the Bible which predates the Quran several hundreds of years.

Can you tell us the divine revealed Books outside the Quran you are referring to?

You dont want to cite religious texts yet you mentioned 3 prophets?. You think the Land was free. If Holy Land has no religion connotation historically attached with it I doubt christians would be supporting these murderers by now. And by our secular law, anyone who aids criminals is equally guilty. Stop talking and come forward with your religious texts. Period

Let me break it down for you so you can use your 2nd grade education to understand. I will ask a few questions:

1. Historically, which comes first i.e. which was revealed or written before the other, the Bible or the Quran?
2. Historically, which comes first i.e. which was revealed or written before the other, the Torah or the Quran?

Your response will clear the fog you are brewing for yourself

usba: ^^^

WHAT!!!!? I do evidence based discussion ask mazaje who got schooled repeatedly, not back and forth with clowns who think they understand foreign politics! If you don't like my answer, Let me explain what I think you should do, first thing is first, u log out of Nairaland and then take any of this 3 options:

1. Seek a strong tree and HANG Yourself

2. Look for a functioning transformer and electrocute yourself

3. Seek an inter-dimensional transport vehicle and transport yourself to the pits of hell, where you should look for the coldest place there and just DIE!

NOW GET OUT OF MY MENTIONS!

The product of watching too much Cartoon Network

Empiree

@ blue quote, I would imagine you seeking references for covenants, Pharaoh's body preservation, Israelite Jews disobedient to God, right?. Well, pls do take your time to watch the videos in full before you reply so that you can object intelligently, if any. Fair enough?

I asked you for historical references - historical accounts are early manuscripts or testimonies from multiple sources attesting the same thing. The Quran is not a historical book, it is a revelation to only one man who claimed an Angel narrated Allah message. For example - the Quran claimed Adam was 60 cubit tall and since then, men has been shirking in size until the present day. We all know that it is impossible to be as tall as a 10 story building. So, using the Quran as a historical source is questionable. The Quran claims stars are Missiles shot at devils. If you have common sense just like I do; you will realize that stars are not missiles but they are luminous globe of gas producing its own heat and light by nuclear reactions (nuclear fusion). The Quran also claimed that the moon was split in two. There are several questionable events in the Quran that has no historical bearing so the Quran is not an authority on this matter.

Pharaoh's body preserved according to Qur'an, (Jews and Christians doubt this). Watch....
Pharaoh's body preserved according to Qur'an, (Jews and Christians doubt this). Watch....

^^^ Refer to my response above

Return Of Jesus in Islam(Sheikh Imran Hosein) 1hr video (the return of Jesus(as), his link with modern day Israel etc)
This 1hr lecture most likely answers your concern or may enlightens you. Take your time and watch. I watched it 10yrs ago.

Who Owns Holy Land, JEWS or MUSLIMS? (this is 47mins video)

^^^ Refer to my response above

Please understand that I am personally not interested in tribes who ones lived on the Land. I believe the Land has always been conditioned for inhabitants. Anytime the people violated the conditions, God threw them out. So from religion point of view is the easiest way to get clear picture.

No it is not. The Quran and it's narrations are 1400 years old. The Torah predates the Quran several hundreds of years and carries more authority on this matter than it does. This issue is a historical one not a religious one. So, please provide a historical reference outside the Quran for scholarship purposes so we can all review.

The reason Muslims (Arabs and non-Arabs) are concerned about the affairs of the Palestinians or Holy Land is because of spiritual connection NOT just the physical land as in worldly material which is what Israel wants or desires. Yes, the Land has God-given worldly materials underneath the earth including Gaza. Israel knows that.

This makes logical sense. People have a sense of deep connection to their home-land. However, this doesn't answer who can make claim to the land or who was there first.

So I am not interested in this or that ethnic groups who lived there thousands of years. That's irrelevant. Even from Bible account, old Israelite-Jews were rescued from slavery and persecution from Pharaoh and brought to the Holy Land by Musa (as). This indicates that they did not own the Land either.

Bros, God is the owner or everything in the heavens and the earth. God made a promise to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their seed to give them their promised land. If you own thousands of land as king and others where living there and you decide to give it to your family, you have the right to do so and your family has the right to stay there. In addition, Moses (not Musa) didn't take the Israelites to the promised or Holy land. Please read up on your history. He took them out of bondage from Egypt.

Finally, let me call your attention to the fact that i said in my earlier post that it's possible Israel will dramatically expands its territory (by massacring Palestinians or consuming them militarily and imprisoning military age men) because it claims Holy Land extends from river Nile to Euphrates. This can only mean one thing, economy and military of Israel dominion over the Arabs. But this will eventually end. You know why? because modern day Israel is not founded on foundation of faith that resembles King David and King Solomon(as). Only religion of Abraham will survive in the Land (Islam). This is hinted in Qur'an (Chapter 21:105).

I think you will not be around to see this Quranic revelation take place. You and I weren't born in 1948, I wasn't in 1967 or 1973 at which time all Muslims tried to remove Israel from the land and failed. I have said it and will say it - Israel is not going anywhere. If you think the wiping of out 8 million Jews is feasible by Muslims; I can tell you this much - Jews and Israelis will not sit by. So, keep wishing all you want.

"And We have already written Psalms [in the book of David] after the [previous] mention that My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth"
Similarly mentioned in the Bible...Matthew 5:5 New International Version (NIV)
"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth". What's meek?, Who are obedient to God and hold on to His covenants? Isn't the Muslims (Arabs and non-Arabs). Or you think it's Israel which restricted its religion to the Jews ethnically?. The Israel that is bombing innocent men, women and children and lying about it?. Same people who killed God's prophets in the past attempted to kill Jesus(as)?. This is not faith and righteousness, is it?

Jews do not believe Jesus was the Son or God neither does Muslims - so that puts you in the same boat Bros. Arabs and Muslims have been killing themselves since the death of Mohammad. The Sunnis hate the Shias and the Shias hate the Sunnis. You guys kill one another and kill non muslims well. Truly a pathetic situation. Look at Sunnis and Shias in Syria and Iraq. Look at the Iraq - Kuwait war. Look at what the Taliban is doing to their own people or people that don't agree with them. Look at ISIS and how it is killing Christian kids and putting their heads on polls. So, keep on with your wishful thinking.

The point is Holy Land belongs Muslims.

- You haven't made any point on this Bros.

That is, anyone who embraces Islam is entitled whether you are White, Black, Yellow or whatever nationality you are. Islam does not recognize "chosen people" as in nationality which is what Judaism is about.

Really? Then why do Shia and Sunni slaughter themselves like chickens? Why did Mohammad say an Ethiopian has a head like a raisin?

Here is Surah 9:97 = The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger: But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.

Al-Tabari, Vol. 2, p. 11, p. 11 = Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.

Continue with your delusion that Islam is not biased. I only feel pity for you.

Those periods are over. What's recognized is "chosen Ummah" i:e Muslims Nation(community) without racial discrimination. Geographically, it's understood that Arab-Palestine who are majority Muslims, ethnically live there fulfilling the conditions since old Jerusalem was destroyed. It doesn't mean Jews and Christians can't live there. They can but they cant claim it as their own (authority). They have lost the contract(covenants).

Again, you are giving no historical references to your argument. Using Youtube or the Quran are not historical references. Imagine this - if I gave the Bible as a justification that Israel has right over the land. The Bible predates the Quran and existed over 600 years before Islam and the Quran. So, if you want to follow earlier sources, the Bible has more authority on history than the Quran on this matter. I certainly am sure that you would dis-agree. However, my logic is correct.

Finally, I do not want to be hard on you or any non-Muslims. We don't know perhaps you might have change of heart and recognize oppression in the Holy Land. You have a good day.

Honestly, I feel pity for you. All I can do is refer you to a Muslim who was a Hamas leader himself to hear his story:

http://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333080

LagosShia

thanks brother Empiree. i wouldn't bother replying to dishonest fanaticism.

Look yourself in the mirror again and repeat the above slowly; you will get a true sense of what it means

i tell him the word "Arab" carries a linguistic and cultural meaning (and not ethnic in most cases), he says its a lie. how can Sudanese, Syrians, Iraqis, Moroccans, Egyptians and Saudis all calling themselves "arabs" be reconciled? if Persians/Iranians, Turks and Indians too, who are Muslims as well, would have adopted Arabic and lost their local languages, instead of preserving them, these nations too would have become "arabs"!

Present day Iran was Persia. Can you tell me after the Muslims invaded it, which part of the Persian culture is dominant in Iran? Saudi Arabia had Christians and Jews before the advent of Islam; Can you show us any major Christian and Jewish heritage that have been preserved in Saudi Arabia today. Your hypocrisy is at best a direct correlation with your delusion

i tell him that voodoo worshipers living in haiti have no right to return to Nigeria to claim the land for traditional religion (at the expense of Nigerian Christians and Muslims), as the European Jews have no right to claim Palestine exclusively for Judaism, he repeated that all blacks have their lineage from Africa. and so what?

All blacks have their lineage from Africa so they can trace it to Africa. How did Islam get a foot-hold in Northern Nigeria - where all Northerners in Nigeria Muslims in the 7th century? No! Yet most Northerners ancestors where forcibly converted or killed hence Muslims can claim the North belongs to them. Since you or I don't know the genesis of the owners of Palestine, it's difficult to say who can lay claim to it. Why didn't the Jews go to the North pole or to remote mountain region in Mongolia to create their state prior to 1948? It is because the land has a significance to both Jews and Palestinians.

most ridiculous, Nigerian Muslims dress like Arabs and have Muslim names, so they too must be Arabs according to him!!! thank God we did not replace our local languages as the Sudanese did with Arabic, otherwise, like the Palestinians (who were once Aramaic speaking), we too would have been told by these fanatics that we should leave Nigeria to Arabia!!! lest he modifies his post and remove his ridiculous claims, i have quoted his response below for the record, not because my reply is directed at him or his claims.

It's hard to debate with Idiots. What is the Quran written in? As a result, do Muslims learn Arabic as a pre-requisite for learning the Quran? Why do you name yourselves Mohammed, Kadija, Ibrahim? Why can't you stick with your indigenious names? Your stupidi.ty almost offends me

Empiree

@LagosShia, the thing is these folks are jealous. They know they going to hell so they want to take muslims down there with them. Christians, especially Nigerian ones can support anything against Muslims. They can support devil against Muslims. They dont care. They are misguided folks. They are very tricky.

No one cares what religion you are. I have said it a thousand times, if you worship stone; don't through it at others. Today you are agreeing with LagosShia , tomorrow when Sunni and Shia have differences and start slaughtering themselves, you guys will put knives at each other throats. If all Muslim radicals, terrorists and fundamentalists where Thai monks, the world will be a better place. Northern Nigeria will be safer for one.

For instance, if you quote those violent verses from Old T, they tend to distance themselves. They would tell you it's for the Jews. Yet, they would quote the same Old T. to support the Jews claiming it's what Bible says. They play Cat/Mouse pooky game.

Are you high? Any Christian that ignores the wars or violence in the OT is ignorant or doesn't know history. No one is ignoring that there was violence or wars in the OT. Most Christians recognized that and have come to terms with it. The context of these wars where clear. Christainity has undergone a reformation - something Islam needs to learn from. Christians are not the ones in Syria and Iraq killing minorities or forcing others to convert or die. So, before you start your two face, double intellectual deficient argument; go read up on history.

Here is the thing though. You really break it down nice. It's up to them to comprehend it or not. Just that Muslims have to accept fate. This event didnt just happen by accident. Jews ultimate returns to the Holy Land is predicted in the Quran. But their return does not mean "rightful owner". According to Quran their return will constitutes their final ruin. It says in sura Isra (ch.17) that if they return with their wickedness, God will also return punishement. Isnt exacty what they doing now?. They have violated the conditions(convenants) again. That's, righteous conduct(obedient to God) and Faith in God. My question to Chrstian supporters is, is modern Israel built on foundation of faith?., Are they holdiing on to Abraham's(as) legacy?. The answer is capital NO.

Only time will tell if your Surah will come to pass or not. While your Islamic "prophesy" is in the making, the reality is on ground. Israel exist and will be where it is. You guys can gather all the Arab armies to move them, the result will be the same as it happened in 1948, 1967 and 1973. You can continue to start minor battles which Hamas and Hezbollah is good at doing but it will not change anything.

On the other hand, it's important for muslims to note that zionists movement did not emerge by accident. While Fir'aun (Pharaoh) was drowning and he declared faith in God, God said to him that now you believe but a while ago you were adamant, rebellious and waging war in rejection of faith-Sura 10:90-92- God said to him(Pharaoh) "today We will preserve your physical body that you may be a sign (Last Age) for the people at later time(and behave like you). But most mankind are heedless of God's Signs. Pharaoh body was discovered in 1898 in the Red Sea. Zionists also established around the same time (late 19th century). Their primary goal was to liberate Holy Land for the Jews from Ottoman Empire. Isnt any wonder there are christian zionists supporting this movement to bring the Jews back to the Holy Land disregarding preconditions mentioned by God in both Bible and Quran. They lie that they dont have to be righteous to own the Land because they are "stiff-neck" people. This claim contradicts God's convenants. They changed word of God.

If you had given a reference or a link to your claim above, I would have taken you seriously

Those jews and christians who form zionists alliance are essentially godless. Muslims are forbidden from making friendly ties with them, Sura Maida ayah 51. Make no mistake of saying the verse is talking about all Jews and all christians. No. Only those zionists alliance and their supporters like Cloudstar. Make no mistake. Israel does not want two-state solution.

The issue here is simple, your Quran, the Sunnah and Sira of Mohammad teaches hate of Jews and Christians. You can white-wash it with modern theory all you want - it doesn't change a thing. You haven't met me or know me but because I take a stand that Israel has a right to defend itself; you automatically call me a Zionist and by Islamic standard - I am to be hated. It is truly pathetic. The same hate is what is driving your likes in Northern Nigeria, in Iraq, in Syria, in the Sudan and 1001 places that Islamic fundamentalism is present. It is truly pathetic. That is the reason your likes hate Israel so much because it was a female Jew that killed Mohammad. Dude - get it in your brain and let it register - Israel is here to stay and it's not going anywhere.

All it wants is entire Land from river Nile to Euphrates. Perhaps, that should give us clear picture of zionists conspiracies in Iraq (the so called caliphate) and in Egypt (deviantly serving zionists' interest).

Muslims like yourself always want to blame problems caused by your likes on others. When ISIS started fighting LagosShia brothers in Syria; you bee-heads stood by and didn't say anything. When they threaten to blow up the Kabbah, you all started condemning them. Can you show us how Israel created ISIS?

Militants may not survive. Eventually they will be wiped out like plague. Gaza will be consumed by Israel. My analysis is that i think militants in Gaza would have to drop weapons and bow to Israel, or refuse to bow and world will witness genocide. And nothing, absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

The issue is not Gaza. The issue is peace between Hamas and Israel. I have stated this several times. Everyone that has signed peace treaties with Israel has lived in peace with them i.e. Jordan, Egypt, Fatah etc. Hamas has refused to recognize Israel and has refused a two state solution. Go figure why

Israel wants to rule the world. I think it was 2011 UN meeting where Nata gave conditions for two-state. I remember Israel said that in order for two state to work, Palestinians will not control their own airspace, their airport will be managed by Israel, they will have no military. So if they cant independently control their own things, how's that independent Palestine. Joke. There is a saying by Israel and her supporters. "A armed (military) Israel is peaceful but armed Palestine poses danger to the region". How's that equality?.

Gaza is only part of the Palestinians state, there is the West Bank as well. The issue is simple - we can have a two state solution with the understanding that Israel is recognized, suicide attacks stop and rockets stop firing at Israel. Lebanon is a sovereign state yet Hezbollah controls the entire south, they have their own militia, weapons and support structure. They can start a war when they want and the Lebanese government has no control over them. Israel doesn't want that to happen.

Neigboring Arab countries will have to open their hands to Palestinians as refugees. Israel will flourish like sunshine. And Chrisitan world will say here we go this is God chosen country. That will be their claim to the truth. What they dont know however is that this flourishment is short-lived. Hell is coming shortly after. This analysis is base on hadith where Prophet had a terrirble dream that Arab will be destroyed if scum poeple prevail. Arent scums prevailing now?.

Yes scums are prevailing - they are in Iraq, in Syria. They are killing children and hanging their heads on polls because they don't believe in their religion. They are kidnapping girls and women in Iraq and using them as sex slaves all in the name of god and the one and chosen religion. They are killing others because they don't believe what they believe. Scums are people that hate others just because a 7th century Arabian illiterate said so.

Anyways, LagosShia, i think you should just ignore from these folks bcus back n fourth arguments dont end. I beg of you anyone pls dont quote me. Thanks

That is why it is called a public forum. People debate and exchange views. Sometimes it gets heated up but our differences shouldn't call for hate speech from the likes of you.

usba

Bros, contribute if you want to. A link on NL is not response to a direct question.

usba:

Since i cant't help you open the link, read and comprehend, please get off my MENTIONS!!! That's all!!!

Debating with your likes is tiring. Go sit down somewhere

LagosShia

the Muslim brotherhood started in Egypt. what's your point? does that negate the fact that Hamas came into being in Palestine in the 80s?

I am not negating anything. I am saying your statement that Israel started Hamas has no grounds. Hamas is an off-shoot of the Muslim brother-hood, it's spiritual leadership and most of it's support came from the Muslim brother-hood.

did history in Palestine start with Solomon and David? did it even start with Abraham? even before Abraham was born, people already inhabited that land. the Israelites met people already living on the land. the Canaanites were there. then came the Israelites and the promise made to Abraham and his descendants/"seed" (whom Palestinians also descended from through both Isaac and Ishamael; Ishamel is mentioned not less than 14 times in the Bible as the seed of Abraham), that God gave him and his descendants the land.

Can you please show us where God gave Ishamel and his descendants the present day Palestine we are talking about. Can you also show us how the present day Palestinians are descendants of Ishamael.

of course that promise came with conditions; that they must be obedient to God. as far as i know, not even as a Muslim, Jews do not believe in your "lord and saviour", and they believe Mary (as) was an adulteress and you know therefore what they think that makes Jesus (as) is left for you to figure in your mind. and of course, they also believe he was an impostor and a fraud. so there goes the condition of obeying God into the drain as per Christianity.

Bros, stop talking trash. I asked youu for historical evidence on the ownership of the land of Palestine. Keep stick to the point and stop going in personal directions.

even as per Judaism, check the Bible and see how many names God called them for their rebellion against Him, and the promise that He will disperse them and they will suffer from other nations, until He (not Zionism) chooses to gather them back in Palestine. after the Israelites/Jews ruled the land, others (Babylonians, Persians, Romans, Turks, British) also came and rule. history did not start there with Abraham.

If history didn't start with Abraham, can you please provide historical proof of who was on the land before Abraham and who owned it.

one thing was certain. all these kingdoms on that land and many came and left. the Palestinians are simply people that lived on the land including Arabic speaking and hebrew speaking people, and those amongst them who practiced Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

Islam was never in the picture. Islam came in 1400 years ago. People lived in those lands before Islam came in. Jews were there and Christians were there.

the Palestinians as a people are descended from many races: Canaanites, Israelites, Jews, Romans, Arabians, and Turks. the main thing is they have lived on that land. check wikipedia for "PALESTINIAN PEOPLE"

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You or I can go to Wikipedia and edit any topic. Please provide an authoritative source for reference or historical authority.

these people belong to that land more than the so callled Jews imported from Europe after world war 2. the palestinians speak arabic through assimilation, intermarriage, islamization, and they were arabicized by being given the language by the powers on the land who came from arabia

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Dude, call it out for what is was - Islam came in by the sword and took over. They didn't come in with diplomacy, they came in with the sword; they killed, forced you to convert, pay the jiydza or be killed. We are seeing their likes in ISIS. So, please gave the entire picture so others can see. Israel has assimilated other jews from other parts of the world, Europe, Ethiopia, Asia, Iran and many other places and provided them a home. Arabs could learn from them and do the same but they prefer to start a fight and complain when they are beaten.

if it is about nacestry, nablus-inhabitied by palestinians-have a number of families (they are muslim and arabic speaking) descended from Samaritans, and Palestinian christians are said to be descended from the first jewish converts to christianity, amongst whom were the disciples of Jesus. Hanan Ashrawi (a female palestinian christian lawmaker) said her family have record in palestine of 5000 years and that her family patriarchial lineage goes back to the days of the Canaanites. also, european Jews have lived in europe for over 2000 years, and they also intermarried with caucasians. does it make sense to you that someone who has lived in europe for over 2000 years should return to a land and claim it from the palestinians, who have lived on the land for thousands and hundreds of years?going to the Jews, not all Jews that came from europe were ethnic jews. they were converts. in other words, this is about one religion taking over palestine and judaizing the land.its not about ancestry and divine promise to a nation or race.

Dude, again you talk and talk without providing any authority on your empty speech. Every jew is of Jewish lineage whether they were born a Jew or not. Just the same way every black person is of negro decent - it's a simple concept Bros. It is based on one's lineage and not on the your religion.

black americans can as well return to Nigeria and claim the land while they pursue Nigerians of mixed ancestries. or because Nigeria was once a land where traditional african religions have roots, voodoo worshipers in haiti and other american countries should return and take over the land from Nigerians practicing christianity and islam, and ask you to go to england and saudi arabia respectively. they will take over houses and demolish properties and displace villages. this is the highest form of inhumanity.

If you had sense you will know what every black man has his lineage from Africa, the blacks in the US, in South America and other places all have their lineage from Africa.

i will tell you what i know. i am not here to argue with you because i dont have the time to, or rather it is waste of time because you are driven by sentiments and fanaticism. check google and you willl find the evidence that hamas agreed to the 1967 borders, and not the 1948 borders which would see israel abolished.

Oh boy - so google is the answer to everything you have said. I shouldn't even be discussing this topic with you

both jordan and egypt agreed to give up on palestine. that is why israel has postponed their own trouble. based on the "divine promise" you as a blind silly zionist christian is driven by, the land of "Greater Israel" extends from the nile (in egypt) to the eupherates in Iraq (encompassing Lebanon,turkey and Syria). israel seeks world domination through genocide, ethnic cleansing, and land theft in God's name. google "Greater Israel".

Malu, they both decided to peace and since they signed the peace treaty they have lived in peace with Israel and vice versa. That is what civilized people do; they find ways to agree and live in peace. Your brothers in Iran has been calling for the destruction of Israel. They use their proxies in Lebanon i.e. Hezbollbah to start trouble when they want and complain later that Israel is heavy handed. Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East where Arabs, Muslims and Jews live side by side. They are a technological power house that every Muslim and Arab country should model and learn from. You accuse be or been biased but your genocidal and enthic cleansing claim shows how one sided you are.

peace with israel for the poor,weak and oppressed palestinians means receiving slaps without complain or shedding any tear. the illegal and racist jewish settlements continue to be expanded in the west bank. is that what you call peace?

Bros, Palestinians and Fatah recognized Israel right to exist. http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000393. So keep talking trash and beating war drums, it won't get you anywhere.

when did israel come into being and how? was it not through zionist terror? they committed massacres before they declared their independence. that made the arabs to respond. read about zionist terror. even the british were not spared of it.

The nation of Israel goes back to King Saul, David and Solomon, the northern and southern kings and even way before that. So, while your arab friends where trashed like kids against people which were out-numbered, they are still trying to pull such stunts again.

if the ANC had rockets back then, i bet they would have fired them on the white settlers. Mandela was imprisoned for 27 years for what? Mandela said: [b]"But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians;

If wishes were horses. Mandela and Gandhi were not militants nor suicide bombers. They didn't teach hate. They didn't call others pigs and monkeys because they didn't agree with them. Nigeria and Cameroon had land disputes; they didn't start several wars about it - they used diplomacy and common sense - that is what grown ups and civilized people do.

the problem is not rockets or bombs, but OCCUPATION.

The problem is Israel right to exist. Israel captured large parts of Egypt that was 3 times bigger than it after the Arabs started the fight; when the Egyptians agreed to recognize Israel, what happened? Israel gave everything back because it's not interested in fighting but it's not scared of it either.

lands do not belong to religions, they belong to people. you dont drive out people because they were forced into a new religion or because they embraced a new religion. going by what israel has done to the palestinians, every muslim around the world, regardless of language and ethnicity, should be sent to arabia. likewise, every christian should be sent to italy, england or bethlehem.

Tell that to all the lands that Islam conquered with the sword over it's 1400 years of history

usthman dan fodio converted people who were already on the land. he didnt import muslims or arabians into northern nigeria. that reminds, look at sudanese. they are blacks and they call themselves arabs. they are arabs because they speak arabic and not african lanaguages. they may as well have intermarried with arabians (ethnic arabs). but they did not come from arabia as a whole. the same in most countries that call themselves "arab". "arab" is a cultural and linguistic term. it is not an ethnic term, except for people of countries in the arabian peninsula

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Cha - ignorance or deliberate lies is one of your hall-marks. Arab is a lineage you malu - it has cultural and linguistic attributes but when anyone thinks of an Arab, they thing of the middle east, they think Saudi Arabia, they think Islam, they think Mohammad. It is an ethnic term you liar; it also carries a religious connotation as well. If Nigerians who are Muslims are not Arabs, why do they dress like Arabs. Why do they bear names that has religious and cultural bearings of Arabs. Christians don't dress like 1st century Jews because Jesus did. Cha - your ignorance and lies stinks so much I can smell it from here

what guaranty is there that if election is held in gaza with international observers and by international standards, israel would accept the results? israel doesnt see hamas only as the enemy. it sees everyone who asks for freedom for the palestinians. israel is enemy to the people of palestine. that simple.

Bros, if Hamas agrees to Israel right to exist and accepts a two party state - then there will be peace. If it doesn't; the story goes on.

usba:

read up https://www.nairaland.com/1848969/french-report-isil-leader-mossad

Bros, I asked you a question not a link to a post on NL. Please provide proof that Mossad started ISIS. I am sure the members of ISIS are not jews or Israelis

usba: ISIS CALIPHATE IS A MOSSAD ENTERPRISE THAT LIKE EVERY CRIMINAL ATTEMPT AT DESTROYING ISLAM WILL FADE . . .

FALSEHOOD BY ITS VERY NATURE IS BOUND TO FADE . . . INSHA Allah THE PURVEYORS OF THIS NONSENSE WOULD SWEPT AWAY FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH LIKE THE 2 HYPOCRITE MUSALAYMAN OR WHATEVER WHERE SWEPT AWAY. AMIN

So Mossad created ISIS? Care to explain

LagosShia

Hamas came into being under israeli maneuvering to outshine Yasser Arafat's PLO, who was a nationalist. they wanted an islamist party that can break the arabism movement that arose with Jamal Abdul-Nasser.

Talking gibberish is one thing, providing fact is another. Hamas is an off-shoot of the Muslim Brother-hood. We don't have to be rocket scientists to figure that out

for you to ask a people who are nationless, and without a country recognized, and whose land was stolen by the same israel you want them to recognize, that is preposterous. when would israel recognize palestine? it is like you asking me to acknowledge that my stolen car belongs to the thief who snatched it from me. silly!

Can you please tell me and show me how the land belongs to the Palestinians? Where was Palestine when Solomon or David was King? Where was Palestine 1000 years ago? Your response will throw some light on the issue

furthermore, you should contact Dr. Google. Hamas at a point has accepted to recognize israel and even went as far as changing its manifesto which called for the abolition of the zionist state.

Really? Can you please provide a written statement from any authoritative figure at Hamas confirming that they recognize Israel right as a nation and to exist?

again, israel is no serious partner to peace and no serious partner for a two state or any solution.

Israel has been living in peace with Egypt since they signed the peace accord. Israel has been living in peace with Jordan and any state that has recognized Israel right to exist. Israel has been living in peace with the PLO and Fatah. Please get your facts straight Bros

do you know why? because israel believes it can do and undo, and it has all the force to impose its will on poor palestinians, who israel always has the right to "defend" itself against by committing massacres. these are the massacres israel will commit and then blame on hamas. in otehr words, when you throw stones at me and you go into hiding, i will force my way into your house and rape your wife and flog your children and then blame it on the husband! that is how israel behaves like a bully.

I find it funny that some Palestinians in the West Bank has no problems with living and recognizing Israel. Egypt and Jordan does as well but Hamas and their likes such as you have refused to recognize Israel.

israel already committed many massacres and religious and ethnic cleansing against the people of palestine. the conflict didnt start with hamas' existence. it started when the inhabitants/indigenes of palestine were killed and their land occupied.

Really! Who started the 1948 war with Israel? Who started the 1967 war with Israel? Who started the 1973 was with Israel? Please go and read up on history

it is OCCUPATION that is the problem.

What happened before Israel occupied these territories?

and as for the terrorist label, Mandela who fought for his people was once a terrorist and so was Ghandhi. the ANC was also called a "terrorist group" by the white apartheid government of south africa. the same apartheid government that israel was the only country to recognize, and even provided it with NUCLEAR WEAPONS to scare and threaten the black indigenous population.

Mandela, Ghandhi and the ANC are not the ones placing bombs in mosque and schools to fire weapons at Israel Bros. Mandela didn't blow up anyone nor did Ghandi teach young Arab kids that jews are pigs and monkeys.

one thing Israel, apartheid white south africa, canada, USA and australia have in common is that all of these countries are built on the cleansing of the indigenous populations and importing a people from distant places to occupy the land.

No doubt that certain figures in these countries have marginalized others. If you are using that same standard, please recognize that there were no Muslims in Northern Nigeria until Usman Dan Fodio started his Jihad campaign and killed thousands. Egypt was never a Muslim country and over the centuries it has surpressed and killed adherants to spread Islam. Iraq and Iran where not always Muslim lands either Bros. So, remember when you are pointing a finger at others, you have four pointing back at you

so the poor palestinians you want them to recognize israel are indeed oppressed and the "recognition" condition is just a bait for israel to continue its crimes and illegal settlements and then have something to say on tv to fool biased people with sentiments, who dont see that the palestinians are humans who also deserve a life of their own.

Bros, 70% of Palestinians in Gaza wants better relations with Israel: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/25/war-weary-gazans-lash-out-at-hamas-over-refusal-cease-fire/. Do you know how many Palestinians have been killed if they show opposition to Hamas?

this hamas you are talking about was elected by the people of gaza in the most free and fair elections that any country or people can conduct. they represent the dreams and aspirations of their people

No one is arguing the results of the election. We are discussing Hamas and it's refusal to recognize Israel. This tic-tac game can go back and forth. Israel isn't going anywhere

TheBigUrban2: ^^^
When you keep calling anyone that disagrees with your religious position "islamophobes", you end up making no point.

A lengthy post wasted.

They usually go in the opposite direction when asked simple questions about violence in their religion. It's almost like asking a thief why is stole and his response is because your great great grand father was a thief as well

Lagosshia/Rafidi

Posting the same thing on multiple threads doesn't change anything. Iran stopped support for Hamas after Hamas decided to support the opposition in Syria. Hamas is in an awkward spot right now.

Another Shia - Sunni rivalry. Why can't other Arab nations ask Hamas to recognize Israel?

TheBigUrban2: ^^^^

Trolling your own thread......wow

Most Muslims are not objective when though questions about violence and extremism in Islam is brought to light. Instead of answering the question, they turn 360 degrees and start talking about Christians.

sino:

I'm sorry, but if all you wrote here is what makes Muslims intolerant, then it's a huge joke!

I mean, you stated it yourself that they will tolerate anything except their women and religion, like what exactly would you want from their women and religion? If i come to your house, shouldn't I respect your beliefs and your family?

And do you carry your bible about everyday?

Please how does Qatar give time limits and restrict your possessing your bible? i don't understand...

And also, how come the intolerance of Qatar attracts Christians, making up 13.8% of their total population?! and they even have churches...

Look at what Muslims are doing to themselves and minorities in Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya and other places. Your Islamic State brothers are telling Christians to pay the jidza, leave, convert or be killed. The minority Yazidi community who are Iraqis are threatened and scared of their lives. Should I go on?

Has anyone quoted Mohammad or his actions? I reckon his actions and teachings in the Quran holds authority on this matter