I can respect that.

Lagerwhenindoubt said it very well. It is a matter of grace vs law. It’s not a matter of lenient that would imply that He is simply letting people off the hook. The question about disasters and whatnot is that God brought them for disobedient but after Jesus lived a perfect life and died for ALL of us we are now under his grace.

Now about Christians having different beliefs, were people dude, no one believes everything exactly the same. Saying that Jesus is not God is not Christian though that person is very confused. The “church” is not perfect it can’t be because it is run by people. Now people want to defend what they believe and by doing that blindly (when something is contradictory) causes problems. Also, it’s not like to be a Christian you have to earn a degree. All that I know I have taken apon myself to learn, if someone chooses not to delve into the Bible and learn they can have beliefs that don’t line up right out of ignorance of the word. God is perfect, we are not. That’s the bottom line.

May I ask a personal question? (I’m going to now regardless cuz I don’t feel like waiting.) What is your interest in God? At first I thought you just wanted to pick fights and try and make ignorant people look stupid, but you seem to have more of a knowledge base than most people which have that goal. This is not a set up for an attack or anything I am just wondering, so I hope you respond in kind.

Yes you have. The harshness you speak of is not as you said of the Christian faith it is Judaism. This seems like a simple matter but it is at the core of what you are talking about. You obviously understand the principles of old and new covenant. We always had a choice as we do now and as you said the difference is God seemed to do a lot more smoting back then right? Heres the rub, it’s a matter of obedience. Obedience does not mean you do not have the ability to choose it means you need to choose to obey. This sounds frightening to many people they think that to be free means freedom from obeying but that’s never the case. In western republics we all hold freedom, that is, just as long as we choose to obey the powers that be. It’s the same principles. I for one would not want the Government to take away my ability to choose even if the fact remains that if I choose wrong I will suffer a punishment for it.

Man can live right. This goes against what I said earlier when I said none of us are good enough; but we can. A man (or woman) can live right if we weren’t born into a fallen system, but we have a generational curse which we all share being sons of Adam. Adam and Eve could have done it and there is no account of how long it was before they fell but they could have I believe that, they were fooled. It’s that first domino that started the whole mess, God gave chance after chance and what seems at first as God giving up on people such as the flood or the division of tongues or the pelages on Egypt were chances after chances to do right. We kept disobeying. So what happened? Jesus, born not of Adam, no inherited sin, curse, or bad habits we all have. Being fully man as well as God; He did it, did what we could not, He obeyed. It is because of Him that we can live how we do now. You are right that we are under Grace and as such (even those who do not believe) are not destroyed in O T ways but, do not minimize the punishment. God is love, and as any psychologist will tell you anger and hate are not the opposite of love at all; apathy is. For Him to say don’t sin for I hate sin, does not mean He does not love. For Him to say do what you want I don’t care, would mean He does not love. We often have a problem wherein we think of God as this big happy grandpa that wouldn’t get mad at us for anything; but we must all stand before the Father one day. The punishments will be real and they will be far worse than any we have even known. For it will be something none of us can know, to be separate from God. That is something we can’t be here, for He is everywhere, but in hell the fire is the least to fear. God’s absents it the true punishment.

There is yet one more factor that I will touch on. Death is far different for us than it is for God. It is written that (2 Corinthians 5: “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” What is a loss and something awful to us is a face to face meeting for God.

This is simple if you think about it; I posted this one another topic but it is about this. The whole thing is a matter of free will, If God stopped bad people from doing things to good people them he is interfering with their free will. Now this is not how He wants it (He never wanted us to suffer, that’s not how he made the world) but it is in accordance to his will. That sounds contradictory but its not. Look at it like this.

God in order to not have a bunch of toy soldiers running about gave us free will. In doing so he gave us the opportunity to not obey him, and even not believe in him. Now if you were God and you made people out of love, wouldn’t you want them to love you? Sure, thing is if they had no choice than it’s not really love. So by giving us a chance to choose to believe in Him and to love Him the love we show is real. But on the other hand we have now the chance to never believe in Him at all nor love Him. This is not what He wants, He wants us to all know and love Him as He loves and knows us. But it was His will that allowed us to not believe in Him at all. Therefore, it is not what He wants but still in accordance to His will.

As far as suffering from other things, like floods, famine ect. That was never how God wanted it to be, we (our forefathers) brought it upon ourselves, and it happens to everyone.

Matthew 5:45 (King James Version) 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Lagerwhenindoubt- I’m trying to understand what you are saying but you have some things wrong and others are just hard to fallow. It sounds as though you are saying you think we have free will but that God is trying to take it away from us, and that Satan had no free will. Let’s just start out with the easy one, Satan did, does and will always have free will all angels do that’s how he rebelled. He is known (among other names) as the cursed one. He wouldn’t be cursed if he was fallowing orders. Two, if God did want us to have free will he could always take it… He’s God He kinda could do whatever He wants. The only way we could have free will is that He gave it to us. Therefore, He is not trying to take it from us He wants us to live a certain way.

Blackcypha- I am by no way saying that God is a different God than the Old Testament they are one and the same. Jesus is God he was there the whole time just as the Holy Spirit was, things were different back then for different reasons. Let’s just get some of them out right quick, he spoke to us through Angles (among other things)this is all fine and great but now he have the Holy Ghost (ie a direct line to God) this is also why we don’t need to talk to the priest and they in turn talk to God. Jesus was sent as a sacrifice the perfect sacrifice therefore we no longer give burnt offerings (Jews don’t either but that’s for a wholly different reason, it has to do with their temple… its long I can go into it if ya want me to. The Jews are no longer the only people of God because Jesus came to everyone. It’s not that’s Jesus omitted everything before (which is where I’m sure it looks like I’m leading) He fulfilled something humans cant no matter how willing they are to try, to live a perfect life. Christians are under a new covenant one made possible by grace.

Let’s show it this way. You seem to have read the Bible so you should get where I’m going here.

O T God, at the Jews requests, picked leaders for the Jews from the Jews. To do this he picked the “best” of them but in the end they turned out to be crap right? David had a guy killed so he could sleep with his wife. Moses asked God to pick another. Aaron, the first high priest, forged the golden calf when Moses was getting the Ten Commandments. It goes on like that, point is people are not perfect even the best of us.
N T Jesus comes, says EVERYONE WHO BEILIEVES IN ME WILL BE SAVED. He pikes everyone, poor, tax collectors, rich, women, children, old, young, every race, the sick, the lame, the possessed, saves them all. What happens? His people kill Him and He comes back. Now who is thought of as one of the best of all the apostles? Paul. Formally known as Saul, of the Pharisees, the sect that had Jesus killed and the best Christian killer of them all. Jesus (after he rose from the dead) came to Saul and showed him He was the Son of God. Saul, now Paul becomes one of the greatest leaders of Christians ever.

What does this all mean?

OT Even the best of us are not good enough.

NT Even the worst of us are good enough as long as we recognize Jesus, are forgiven (ie become Christian) and try. He loves ya dude and everyone else reading this He loves you too. The only thing he asks us to do is acknowledge Him for who He is, ask forgiveness, and try and live the way He showed us too. I know we don’t understand everything about God and we won’t, none of us, until we are with Him. But He is a loving God

That is the exact reason God (Jesus) taught love above all things.
1 Corinthians 13:13
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Matthew 22:36-40
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[a] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[b] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

If God made us love Him or one another than that is not our choice therefore it is not free will. The reason Christians use free will is because it is truth; it is a cornerstone belief of Christianity. If people didn’t have a choice than no one would be accountable for anything; you could not say that anything Hitler did was wrong because he couldn’t choose not to. Jesus most certainly did have a choice he chose to do it. When he said “if it is you’re will” He said He is the servant of the will of God. Did Jesus want to suffer and die? No, that’s part of being human no one wants to suffer but it was because of his love that He choose to do it anyways. That was part of why he came was to show us that you do have the choice do to right even when you seemingly do not benefit from it.
Our hearts are kind, yours, mine, his, hers but that not all there is to it. People get hurt and hurt causes us to hurt others. That’s why Jesus taught love, love everyone no matter what they do. That’s what he wants us to do that’s what Christians are called to do. Are we perfect? No. Are we even good at it…. Well some are better than others but…. We (hopefully) try to be. Truth be told I at first wanted to fight with you. When I read many things you said and saw the distaste you have for my beliefs my instinct is to attack. But that’s my human side, when I thought about it before just acting I calmed down and remembered that that is the very reason I often didn’t like Christians before I was one and even after. But we are all human. I like talking to others and sharing my beliefs. I don’t hate you because you don’t agree; I don’t wish harm to you or anything like that. Now this is not love to the end that God has it for us all but it is a brotherly love. If more people showed even this much love I think a lot of the problems people have with each other and people have with Christians would resolve. But this is a choice we must make every day and not all of us do so.

grace5 thank you, that was as well a teaching on tongues as an I have ever heard

Ok I’ll try to do justice to what Mr. Lewis wrote as I cannot find the direct quote.

Let us use people and free will; I think this will work easier.

God in order to not have a bunch of toy soldiers running about gave us free will. In doing so he gave us the opportunity to not obey him, and even not believe in him. Now if you were God and you man people, out of love wouldn’t you want them to love you? Sure, thing is if they had no choice than it’s not really love. So by giving us a chance to choose to believe in Him and to love Him the love we show is real. But on the other hand we have now the chance to never believe in Him at all nor love Him. This is not what He wants, He wants us to all know and love Him as He loves and knows us. But it was His will that allowed us to not believe in Him at all. Therefore, it is not what He wants but still in accordance to His will.

Does that express my point better?

Why is it that so often when people of two differing beliefs come together to disuse their beliefs the diction deludes into a fight or at best a heated argument?

Look guys you don’t believe in God and I do, I do not think you are stupid for that, while still believing myself to be right. Can that be said of your position? Could there be a way that someone can have a belief in God and not be simple minded or pathetic in your eyes? I would like to continue a conversation on this but I think there is a leave of respect that should be shown by all who participate. That is at least my opinion.

Mazaje, I believe you are mistaken when you said “you always follow the religiuon and god of your parents. . . .” that not true. Though yes it is often true a generation like that cannot be made. Many who are Christian are converts from other beliefs, and within the different sects of Christianity people often change denominations. In years past this would have been unthinkable but shows that it is not a pre-given that if you are a Christian your children will be Christian or even believe in God at all, just as it would not be predetermined that an atheist would have a child that would never believe in God. Now in youths I can understand how you would make that assumption but often people change their mind about beliefs as they grow older. So I do not think that assumption is accurate.

Also Christian and Muslims are by no means the only religions that believe in heaven. Judaism does along with many Hindus, Shinto do not but they do believe in an afterlife as do Buddhists. The old religions of Europe believed in heaven, the Egyptians, the American Indians, Africa, Mexico had many who did as well, and almost all of them in fact so you are wrong on this point.

As for God being a He to Christians it is more just old Jewish terminology mixed with the fact that Jesus was a man. God is said to be the Father because God rules over all things and to relate this in a way the people understood it best He referred to Himself as the Father. Just as Jesus is not truly the son of God (He is God) as he is likened to a son, he obeys the will of the father but still holds authority as a son did in those days. Jesus is God, along with the Hold Spirit they are all one. Now this is such an abstract thought that to explain it to man He broke it down in way of a family as families are something everyone understands and the Jews were and still are very family oriented people. There is no offence in it.

you are right they did expect it to happen then. And again at the year 100 and 1000 and 2000 and 2012 but regardless to what man thinks God said that only the father knows when not even Jesus the Son knows the year, day or hour. God does not care about when we think something should happen He does not work on our time. He will come when He deems it time to come. That is why Jesus said he will come like a thief in the night so be on the watch always. We do not know the time a thief will come nor will we know when God will.

Ok let’s go about this in a different way as I believe we agree a lot more than it may seem but first let me get this tiny thing out of the way. When I spoke about covering ladies with blankets I was addressing the issue you raised when you said that women showing their underwear in church. Now I took that as you meaning people who fainted or did…. I’m not sure what to call it, a trance, if they were showing their underwear just because than that is wholly different and nothing I have seen before. I have never fallen into a trance so I cannot speak on the matter other than as an observer as you do, there for I won’t as I am ignorant about this subject. Hopefully that clears that tidbit up.
Ok let’s try this, I take it you are a Christian and if not than you are at least well versed in the Bible am I right? We both seem to believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit I believe. We both confess that we were not there for the day of Pentecost and therefore we can neither speak first hand as to all the languages spoken how it appeared ect.
You spoke of disunity, I take it you mean in the church as a universal church right. Well, all I can say to that in that is that Jesus said wherever even two come together in my name I will be there. I take that as saying if two are in agreement than there in unity in Christ there among them. Does that stand to reason?
Your next point was that there was evidence of God by way of the sound and the flaming tongue. I agree, was there that when I first spoke, no. But I will say this, I prayed for years to receive the gifts of the Holy Ghost and it was not until a prophet came and (without my request) laid hands on me and told me God said to speak. I lay there silent I didn’t know what to do. He (a nice old country boy) kinda laughed at my confusion a bit and said “Just start talking boy. Let those funny words come out.” When I finally let go and simply spoke I spoke in a full new language, I could hear then a reputation in it like that of a singular language but not like any other I had ever heard. It flowed like water, faster and far easier than if I were to try and pray in front of people in my native tongue. You may think this is me trying to get attention but to what end? You don’t even know my name or who I am nor I yours. All I can say is that I know it to be true because I do it and I am not doing it for anything but to closer myself to Him. and as a born again Christian cannot fully explain what it feels like to give your life to God and have that feeling and relief come over you I can hardly do this justice. All I can say is that as one who does I do not look down in any way on those who do not and I ask that those who do not please extend the same.
As I said a tongue given without interpretation does no harm nor good to anyone but the speaker. No it is not better than winning souls to Christ but it’s not for that. Do I fully understand it, no. I know it’s real because… it’s real, just as I know salvation is real or miraculous healings are real, I’ve experienced them . I can look for answers to sight from others or scripture that I think relates but I can tell you no more than I know, and what I know is thus. I would like to continue this conversation.

You see blackcypha, mantraa knows how to properly pose an argument. Rational thought and beliefs posed rationally as that both parties may exchange their belief and learn from one another and no one gets irritated as all involved show respect for the other and their beliefs regardless to if they agree or not. It’s always hard to disagree with an argument such as that and in this case some of it I completely agree with while disagreeing with other parts.

I do not claim to have the answers to everything I only speak what I believe as you are doing mantraa and I appreciate that regardless to the fact that we disagree about the point at hand. We both agree that thought processes can be manipulated by our teachings what we differ on in that respect is which factor we see as the manipulator and which is the truth. But you can never make complete assumptions, and yes I know I did a similar thing in my post, but not all children born in a religion adopt said religion that would be like me saying everyone born to an atheist family will undoubtedly be an atheist. Generalizations are never wise for anyone about any group, groups of people are far too diverse as people are far too diverse, I trust we can agree on that.

You spoke about China and while I understand your meaning I would like to point out that after communism took hold the sate tries to discourage any religion, yet it is one of the fastest growing arias of Christian growth in the world. In Buddhism they still believe in an eternal soul and an eventual heaven like state (nirvana as I’m sure you know).

Another point you make is that not all religions can be right. Here too we agree, it is my position that Christianity is right. If I didn’t believe that I most assuredly wouldn’t be one. I am curious, as you said you believe that life has a deeper meaning than a world made by a God, what do you believe is more important? I am truly interested for as I see it if we were a cosmic accident than wouldn’t we have no meaning at all? There by making life only as important as one chooses to make it.

The logic in what I said came from a British author from the early 20th century, as I stated in my post, therefore you comment is meaningless and does not have an argument beyond simple contradiction for the point of contradiction

@Bobbyaf

That’s simply not true, I speak in tongues and I have a loving heart. I feel no anger towards you or anyone else who disagrees with me on this subject or most others (I would say any other subject but I’m only human). The fact of the matter is that I agree with you in part but not all. I attend a church wherein we pray in tongues but not one where people as you say run around the church and yell and all that. I don’t think I would much like a church where people did not show the proper reverence for the Lord’s house, I have seen people fall down and as you said about women showing their underthings the churches I’ve been to always have little blanket things to cover them so that is never an issue. However, there are two main things I would like to further discuses.
1. you said “I am yet to come across any biblical account, or for some one who advocates speaking in tongues to show me just one instance where there was a similar behavior in NT worship sessions, where persons walked and run all over the church building uncontrollably; where women's underwear was exposed; etc.” now we were not there to know just how they acted but on the day of Pentecost in Acts. 2:1-18 in 2:13 it says when referring to the way they were acting in king James
“Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.” In a more modern style it says
“But others in the crowd ridiculed them, saying, "They're just drunk, that's all!" which is much the same as people say about it these days is it not? It goes on to say in Act 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he (Jesus Christ) hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Another account is when Jesus received the Holy Spirit in in Matthew 3:16
“As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.” There are those who say that like a dove and not as a dove may mean in the way that a dove descends and not in the form or a dove and like the way that lightning descends and not the form of lightning. What does this mean? Have you ever seen a dove descend? They are not the most graceful the flutter about and often hit the ground in a clumsy heap, we all know lightning is sudden flashy and brash. Now I present this more as food for thought than facts but to me this sounds similar to those who convulse with the Holy Ghost.
2. is simple I do not know if Paul would or would not agree with people talking in tongues these days I know that in Acts Peter defended it and many were saved on that day.
I do not think that it is the only sign of having the Holy Spirit I believe most Christian do not speak in tongues that does not mean I think they do not have the Holy Spirit. It is simply the most common sign is all

he makes me want to mover to Australia

I receive it. please keep me in your prayers my name is Hunter McLeod

To ogajim

I’m sorry that it seemed that way I should have specified better that they were two separate subjects. When I quoted scripture I was speaking in general not specifically to you or anyone else for that matter, again I apologies. I try never to assume things of other whom I do not know. I was only speaking directly to you after I said your name that is all.

As for the assault on the Holy Spirit I was simply saying that the Bible tells of tongues, among other things, as being gifts of the Spirit therefore I would advise against mocking them to any who do, of which there is a lot on this thread. That is not me calling anyone one person out or saying it should not be discussed I believe it should be and in a very frank and respectable way; if for no other reason than one should never mock the beliefs of another regardless to if you agree with them or not.

at Bobbyaf

It sounds to me just as you said, she was most likely possession.  It is not uncommon for those with demons to actively disrupt services I have seen similar things myself.  I have even heard of demons seemingly perusing a particular person.  I priest I once knew told of how while he was in seminary in the 60s he went with a priest to a girls house, if I remember correctly, where the girl had a spirit (demon) she was freed from it and lived out her life but he continued, much later something to the end of 30 years or so, he encountered a possessed man that during his utterances called the (now old priest) by his man.  Thing is he had never told the man his name the demon then continued and told him they had met before and described the earlier encounter.   Demons are not unfamiliar with the workings of God and they are good and mimicking them.   I’ve seen people who at one point acted as though “spirit filled Christians” began to writhe at the name of Jesus and at the sound of angelic tongues.   Simply because the enemy can mimic does not void the truth.  It is sometimes hard to tell I grant you, a tongue spoken at any time neither harms nor benefits anyone but the speaker.  A tongue given with interpretation, as I said earlier, is the same as prophecy and God say that prophecy is tested by whether or not it comes to pass.  If it is false it will not happen to the letter of how it was spoken and those false prophets with have to answer to God not man.

Matthew 12:31-32
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come"
Be careful were your jokes lead you, if you are wrong on this subject you may want to rethink your comments.
To ogajim, you were speaking of tongues sounding the same and having different interpretations and how this seems to be fake right. Well there are two things about that one there are fakes, not everyone but there are some. Two it is often hard for people to understand foreigner language it often sounds as though it is repetitious and meaningless; especially when it does not have the same root as ours. Compare the Asian languages to the romantic ones of Europe of those of Africa they are completely different and confusing. In the case of a tongue given by God we have nothing similar to it on earth so they sound strange and comical to us. The only way one can interpret a tongue from God is by God giving the meaning to the interpreter, this is also why is can be faked however. However a word given in tongues with the accompaniment of interpretation is the same as prophecy and the Bible says that the way to test a prophet is if what is said comes to pass, if it doesn’t it was face plain and simple.

Well thank you Traugott I thought you might like someone else speaking on the same topic as you seeing as how this thread is filled with an array of subjects; and I believe the pursuit of God and knowing him personally is a worthy and honorable thing.

On the topic of dreams the Lord does indeed want our dream to be good I wish I could find the address but he says that a Christian should have sweet sleep. The things that I would like to discus on this topic is that i do not believe one should be so hasty to discard dreams. Personally I think you should sometimes employ an outside source when deciphering a dream. There are symbols in dreams that those, unfamiliar with them, might overlook. In the realm of the believer God has used others to tell the meaning of dreams before such with the case of Daniel. There is also a difference I believe in terms, there are dreams and then there are visions. A dream, as I understand it, is something inward your; mind telling you something about yourself, though often abstractly. A vision on the other hand is from an outside source be it God or demonic. A demon, of course, has no powers comparable to that of God but let us not forget what they are a fallen angel. The word angel means messenger, and as Traugott spoke of, one of the ways a message is sent is through dreams. Therefore, demons can still hold sway over dreams; in the case of believers I believe this to be the most common why in which they attack us directly. To the end of them attacking us there is no question but that is another topic in and of its own. God of course also give visions, those are referred to as prophetic, meaning Of Prophesy and should be treated as such.

On a wholly personal level I have often dreamt in color, the only reason I do not say that I always do so is simply that I have so often that I no long note it unless there is some sort of significance. Those dreams/visions in which I remember color most vividly are those of demonically lead ones, the color of blood or of a demon’s eyes ect. I do not know if I have seen the sun, is there significance to that symbol? I would be shocked if there weren’t I merely am ignorant about it is why I ask.

I apologize, I was more or less saying what I had thought of and was wondering if people agreed or disagreed with me and if so what they thought I had gotten wrong. But thank you for the complement all the same.

I posted this on another thread but it was the same question. I would just like to add that God is by no means dead and while it is through the Spirit we hear, there is nothing in the Word that says we can now hear him audibly.

The Lord speaks at all times; there are those who believe that God is as close to sound as he is anything else. The Lord speaks through the Spirit and it is through the Holy Spirit that we hear Him. Too hear Him better one must learn His voice, pray for clarity and pray to know Him when He speaks. Also, give Him a chance to speak; the world is so full of noise that we cannot hear the sound of our own thought let alone Gods voice. In the The Screwtape Letters C.S. Lewis explains how the enemy has surrounded us by noise so much so that we can hardly hear sounds at all. What is the difference? Sound is important it carries messages, songs, instructions, praise and so forth. Noise on the other hand is never important it blots out all of those things and bring frustration, confusion, hostility and countless other things that are not conducive to a Christian lifestyle. This is why people so often claim nature to be spiritual; it is indeed so but no more than anywhere else in a world made by God. The difference is that when one is alone in a place segregated from others one can hear the things of the Spirit more so.

Thank you?

I have  long thought that some of the best proof that God existence is how every culture worships God, regardless to what they call him or how segregated they may be God is always present.  Something inside of us knowns, Christians (among others) understand this as being from the soul.  Yet, it accrued to me the other day that while mankind seems to never need to be told that there is a God for one to believe that there is not a God they must be taught this belief.  Now it can be argued that religion teaches us about God and that is true but it seems to me that it only teaches about God not that there is a God; that part is assumed.  The Bible, Torah and Qur’an all share the first few books of the Bible and in them all the first line states “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Not God exists.  As far as I am aware, it was not until modern times that cultures have shared belief in no God.  When tribes are discovered they seem to always have some sort of deity.  Among the first man made artifacts are those of carvings believed to represent deatic figures.  And it cannot be argued that it is a matter of advancement or intellect as some (if not most) of the greatest minds throughout history were God fearing people Albert Einstein, king Solomon, Socrates, most of the founding fathers and signers of the U.S. constitution believed in God and many were priest and even Darwin himself became a Christian before he died.  Many people, myself included, will testify that before they became Christians they knew there was a God thou they had not found him yet, something inside them knew, a gut feeling if you would.  Therefore if I am correct by deduction reasoning it would stand to reason that God is by no means a creation of man but truly a world where God does not exist is the work of men.

The Lord speaks at all times; there are those who believe that God is as close to sound as he is anything else. The Lord speaks through the Spirit and it is through the Holy Spirit that we hear Him. Too hear Him better one must learn His voice as Traugott said, pray for clarity and pray to know Him when He speaks. Also, give Him a chance to speak; the world is so full of noise that we cannot hear the sound of our own thought let alone Gods voice. In the The Screwtape Letters C.S. Lewis explains how the enemy has surrounded us by noise so much so that we can hardly hear sounds at all. What is the difference? Sound is important it carries messages, songs, instructions, praise and so forth. Noise on the other hand is never important it blots out all of those things and bring frustration, confusion, hostility and countless other things that are not conducive to a Christian lifestyle. This is why people so often claim nature to be spiritual; it is indeed so but no more than anywhere else in a world made by God. The difference is that when one is alone in a place segregated from others one can hear the things of the Spirit more so.

The Bible talks about piercings from the first book. some scholars believe that Jesus himself may have had his ears pierced as most people of that time who went to sea did. in Genesis 24 it even talks about women with pierced noses and the Jews giving them wedding gifts of nose and ear rings. the belief that one should not pierce themselves comes from there verse where in it states "Your body is the Temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own. You are bought with a price" (1 Cor. 6:19-29) but God never speaks of not piercing you ears ever as far as i know of.

I will try and keep this short and sweet; we will see how I do.

I awoke this morning and went downstairs where I found the fire my father had left smoldering; while tending to the flame I found revelation.  There was only one log left and it had but one small flame on it, below it was a core of small embers mostly covered by ash or outed by the cold.  I took up a stick I keep by the fireplace and poked it; the embers began to glow but little more.  I prodded at the log and stirred the coals and they slowly started to take life, but not as strongly as I wanted them too.  Then I took the stick in my hand and I beat the smoldering log, the white ash atop it fell off and exposed the good wood beneath.  Small embers from the log fell and joined those below the log helping to fuel the flame and while I struck the log the small flame took light and began to burn strongly.  The fire enveloped the log and was soon doing its job warming the house once again.  It is possible to stoke a smoldering fire into a roaring blaze with nothing more than I strong stick and a few strikes.  That’s when I realized the analogy, the end times are often looked upon with fear.  A time where God’s wrath is poured out on the land in such magnitude that the saints in heaven will plead with him and ask when it will end.  Why would a loving God do such a thing?  We are the fire.  The flame of Christianity has been smoldering, no longer doing its job to the potential that it has.  During the time the Bible speaks of in revelation the fire is almost out completely and God will pick up his Holy stick and strike at the world.  The ash, those who are dead to God will be cast off and given to the winds.  The embers that fall to the coals and strengthen the blaze, the Christians who are called up through rapture or death in this time.  And the log which takes flame, the church which will form during this time.  This is not a time that Christians should fear, this is the last attempt of a loving God to show the world himself and give light to those who would have him.  A way to save as many souls as he can, souls who would have either smoldered into ash dead to God or  have simply been left to never catch flame due to the world not being as it should. 

This is my take I would like to know what you think.