dademola: wayne rooney's all-round performance has been good. he has neva been the "thru-ball" type, yet he has excelled for us over the years. it isnt his fault that d wingers are in poor form, neither is it his fault dt rvp appears to be losing his temper instead of playing football and scoring goals!! rooney is still contributing his own quota in every possible manner bro!!he doesnt even appear to be kagawa's problem, as d later even appears to find it difficult to be named in a match day squad in rooney's absence **referencing d anfield game*. only GOD knws wot moyes is forced to see in that carrington training complex every morning !!

I can't comprehend the bold. Yet he's being played where he needs to be delivering "thru-balls" on regular basis to the striker. Is that not putting a square peg inside a round hole? This is unbelievably coming from a United fan!

He has never "excelled" as a No 10 for Man United as you have said.

As i have said earlier, i won't blame him for being told to play in that position, i'll rather blame David Moyes. If he had succeeded in getting Fabregas, would he have been playing him out of position? If No, where then would he have been playing Rooney?

I am done with this. Good morning.

dademola: well, i dnt hav much to say. IF KAGAWA PUTS IN SUCH A PERFORMANCE WEN NXT HE IS INCLUDED IN D TEAM, HE WLD SURELY GO BACK TO D BENCH BY GOD'S GRACE!! even if opta says kagawa had a 200% pass completion rate, such performances were definitely not wot attracted man utd to him! wayne rooney might not hav had d best of games dt day, bt considering his overall contribution to d team by taking freekicks, running and scoring( just like u put it), kagawa needs to do a lot more than wot he did that day to even merit consideration for a starting place ahead of rooney

And if Rooney continues to dish out the kind of unproductive and inefficient passes he has been dishing out from that No 10 role and he is continually being played in that position, then Man Utd will continue to suffer until David Moyes is sacked and a sensible coach is hired to do the right thing. Also, we should stop complaining that we are not being creative or not scoring from open play.

What if we don't win a free kick where he can score?

elampiro: Another thing brought me back.

Kagawa played from the left for Japan in the confederation cup. Against slow playing Italy he was marvelous, but against power and fast playing Brazil he was below average and against fast and imposing Mexico he was awful.

And what was Rooney's performance at the last world cup? Even against Algeria.

elampiro:

In the preseason he played in the whole. He was largely uncreative against even Asia teams.

Highly overrated.


Bye.

Don't be ridiculous. We all knew that he wasn't fit to play in preseason. He was only used to generate funds. How else do you say this when he was voted the man of the match in the two games he played.

dademola: ofcourse not. My point is dt rooney's form is decent enof. Considering present form, rooney doesnt deserve to be be shifted aside to accomodate d presently "uncertain" kagawa. Kagawa wld get more chances, bt he had betta grab dem with both hands: d nxt chance he gets, it had betta be an improvment on d lethargic performance he put in d last time.

I disagree with the bold. Rooney's form in the hole isn't "decent enof" I don't know how you judge his form? Is it by running about and leaving your position of primary responsibility? Or is it by being productive with the passes you make in relation to the role (in the hole as in this case) you play in a team?

However, i don't blame Rooney for being picked to play in the hole. I only blame the clueless David Moyes who continues to play him in that position when we have a certain Kagawa who was bought to play in that role. Whereas, Rooney himself admitted recently in June that he wasn't a midfielder but a centre-forward right now. He should be slugging it out with RVP and not Kagawa.

Let's now take the stats of the Westbrom match in which both of them played together in this season so far into consideration. You said Kagawa put up "lethargic performance" in that match while Rooney was "decent enof".

We all know that Kagawa had only 45 minutes on the left side of the midfield while Rooney played 90 full minutes from the hole.

According to Opta stats:

Rooney : Successful Passes - 39 out of 49 which is 74%
Kagawa : Successful Passes - 23 out of 27 which is 85%

Rooney : Successful Passes in Attacking Third - 16 out of 24 which is 67%
Kagawa : Successful Passes in Attacking Third - 10 out of 11 which is 91%

Rooney : Chances Created - 1 (long pass from our 18 yard box to the right side of half field)
Kagawa : Chances Created - 2 (two short passes: one in the 18 yard box of Westbrom and another outside the 18 yard box)

With all these, who do you think was more productive and efficient with his passes at their respective positions in the team? This stats also confirmed that if Kagawa is to swap position with Rooney in that game, he would have performed more than Rooney in that position.

His level of performances in the matches he has played is being over-hyped because of the freekicks he has been scoring and the running around he has been doing whereas most of his passes has not productive. I don't have anything against Rooney playing in the team. He can play and he has played on the left side as well in the past. Why can't DM shift him to that position to accommodate him in the team so that when we have free kicks at the edge of the 18 yards box he will always take them.

David Moyes needs to play Kagawa where he will be more productive and efficient to the team. Kagawa needs a run of games for us to see if he can play that position the way he played it in Dortmund. He shouldn't be playing Rooney in the hole in order to prove what is not to him. He doesn't have to sacrifice the progress and success of the team because he wants to keep Rooney.

DM is the one creating problems for himself and the team. How can he be resting/rotating his defenders for the EPL and UCL at the beginning of the season? This is what SAF won't do at this time of the season when their are no injuries. The season is still very much young for him to be doing this. He needs to be playing them so as to stabilize the back four because that is where the team's attack starts from. You don't make a wholesale change to your back four. By resting some of his back four, i believe he already knows his best defenders. Why not play them consistently except for in the Capital One Cup where you can field entirely new set of defenders. If at all he is going to rest a defender, then one is enough. If our defence is stable and organized then the midfielders will have confidence to play their game.

So also he should be playing 4-2-3-1 instead of 4-4-2 since our wingers are not yet up and running. He should give Kagawa and Fellaini a run of games so that they can blend properly into the team. Rooney and Kagawa should be switching positions in the LM and AM for proper understanding.

He should also be brave enough to drop any player who is not doing well in the team like Ferdinand to challenge his position in the team. It is either he up his game or decide to retire in January. SAF did the same to him and Vidic in the Charity Shield game against Man City when the two were so erratic and this later made Ferdinand improved his game.

If SAF comes out of retirement today with this same team on his hand, i know he will turn this team around within the next two months.

I know @Coogar will love this piece. This lad should getting more playing time to reach his full potential.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2432993/Javier-Hernandez-better-Robin-van-Persie-Wayne-Rooney-Danny-Welbeck.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

SailorXY: Thank God someone else has noticed that Hernandez game is improving to add to his killer instincts, some people go come here dey say he cannot cope with "the magnitude of the games cuz he offers nothing than scoring that's why Welbeck is .... bla bla bla". I swear, the only time Welbeck should play as CF is when van Persi, Rooney & Hernandez are injured @ THE SaMe TiMe or I go shoot person pikin gun for toes
Jones did a very good job as far as I'm concerned, he got in the way, threw himself into challenges & was generally tidy in possession. He was the more reason L'poo couldn't dominate for long spells in the game... Remember he was alongside a 40-year old #who played very well HoHa but can only be used once in a month tho # so naturally all the closing down was his to do
Kagawa & Hernandez were not happy @ being substituted & I don't blame them. They were beginning to enjoy themselves even tho they didn't start very well. #match rustiness
I was impressed with the defense to an extent. Rafael & Smalling did really well, he blocked many shots on goal & had about 5 headed clearances..(Pls Mr. Coogar if you can help with his stats) those wey dey yab Smalling I wonder which match una watch o. Smalling's only mistake was the loose pass on the edge of the box from which Henderson failed to utilize
Nani need game time & I don't see why Young & Valencia should be ahead of him, despite not being 100% he had more attempt on goal than Young & Valencia has mustered throughout this season

Spot on about the striking position. Hernandez and Kagawa needs to be playing regularly in that team. We already know that of Hernandez. He doesn't need to prove anything but Kagawa needs to be playing so as to bed into this team and also know the way we play. If he is not injured, he should be playing with Rooney in that midfield so that they will be interchanging positions to unlock any defence.

coogar:

i am not pleased we waste his talents on the bench. he's the ultimate centre forward. i want to see kagawa play directly behind him for once. we don't even utilise hernandez's skills. the passes to him from the midfield are either too early or delayed too late. with zombies like jones & giggs on the pitch tonight, it was painful to watch.

To me, i believe we have only two out and out striker in RVP and Hernandez and the two are so deadly. I just wish DM realizes this now. Sometimes i fear that we might lose him to another club because of him being under-utilized. But he's a patient, committed and hard working lad. If we use him regularly, he would have even improved more and we all know what that means.

coogar:

he should be starting every game in my opinion. chicharito is always running to get behind the defence which forces the defenders to stay deep thus creating a massive gap at the edge of the box for rooney/kagawa to exploit.

hahahaha - arsenal missed their 2nd penalty kick. it's 3-1 to west brom. 3-2 to west brom & they just missed their 4th kick. west brom are crazy. 3-3!!!

Yeah, that is true. Moreso that he has improved in his overall play with the team. He is so sharp despite not playing so many games this season. Defenders will always keep their eyes on him because of his positioning and just popping up where you expect him to. See the way he deceived and lost Enrique in the process of that goal.

coogar:

hernandez is such a born poacher...
he left enriquez for dead here but what can any defender do here? enriquez did not know where hernandez would run to, he can only follow him, he cannot get ahead of hernandez as he doesn't even know what was on hernandez's mind.

That i believe is the reason why i think DM should learn that if RVP is not playing upfront, then it should be Hernandez. If he had started upfront on Sunday, i believe Kompany and co would have been cautious going forward knowing that if hew gets half a chance he will convert it.

Demaejy:
1 - Yes, just go there and tell them you want to change the service to registered Mail. However, make sure you have all the details of your parcel so they can help you find it quickly.

2- It ranges from 500 - 1k or more based on weight of the parceL. But 10pages document shouldn't be more than 700 Naira

Hope it helps.

Thank you for your response. I went there on the following Saturday because i thought they too will observe the Eid il fitri holiday but on Saturday i was told that the mail had left the post office. It eventually got to the destination on the 9th of this month that's about a month.

I went there to post another 10-pqge document to the same destination. I was charged N1500 but what surprised me was that there was no receipt for the N1500. Is that how they do at post office? Collecting money without issuing a receipt to that effect.

Top Passers at the center today

Ten-man Nikky Butt and Paul Scholes' Man Utd Under - 18 also beat Bayer Leverkusen in UEFA Youth Championship 4 - 3

elampiro:

I was not arguing with you even though I knew you were a Coogar's ally.

We are talking about the match of two days ago. That pass was at least 30 yards. Na today we dey watch match?

Moreover, many papers reported it to be 30 yards. But I thought you saw it na? A 30 yard pass is definitely not a short distance in the football pitch.

Opta do not have monopoly of knowledge. Was it Opta that invented football? Is opta FIFA?

Why did you say i am Coogar's ally? I know the pass you people are talking about and that is why i am saying if we can see the video here then there is a way i will do the calculation and show to you if it is upto 30yards as you have said or not. To me, the way i saw it, it is not up to 25 yards if you take into consideration that half of the pitch is 57yrds. The pass was made from the right of almost half field.

You cannot always rely on what press men wrote. Why do you choose to believe what those press men wrote more than what an organization that is saddled with the responsibility of track and keeping football statistics?

elampiro:

Rooney's pass to RVP last weekend was 30 yards . There might be plus and minus though. I remember the one against Villa was measured to be 39 yards pass. I don't think a 30 yard pass should be categorized as a short pass. What is the length of a football field?


His goal, a 25-yard free-kick after the mercurial Belgian teenager Adnan Januzaj had been fouled by Adlène Guedioura, was merely the embellishment to an outstanding performance by Rooney.

He dictated play, won 50-50 challenges, encouraged Januzaj and debutant Marouane Fellaini and, with a sublime 30-yard pass to Robin van Persie, almost re­created the Dutchman’s goal of the season against Aston Villa last April. On that occasion, Van Persie received Rooney’s pass and volleyed it into the net, yet his chest-trap and volley could only scrape the Palace crossbar this time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/wayne-rooney/10310859/Wayne-Rooney-shows-signs-that-dark-days-of-summer-are-behind-him-after-scoring-in-2-0-defeat-of-Crystal-Palace.html

I am not here to join in your argument but to say my own opinion about this issue and educate ourselves,

Don't you think Opta are in better position to know the distance on each pass made in a game? They have the dimension of the pitch to really determine the distance of those passes. We are very far away from the pitch to know the distance of the particular pass you are talking about. Even those at the stadium cannot know the distance as well.

Whichever angle we are looking at the pass from, we'll only be guessing. The dimension of the pitch is 114.8yrds x 74.4yrds. Half field is 57yrds which makes me think that the pass may not up to 25/30yrds in distance although i am not sure about this. But if i can see the video just like the one @coogar posted against villa, then i may be able to be specific about the distance.

Like i said, Opta should be in a better position to know the distance of each and every pass in a game because that is what they are being paid to do.

I think i have once seen it somewhere where FIFA categorized passes as:

Short Pass less than 10m

Medium Pass greater than 10m but less than 25m

Long Pass greater than 25m.

And also i can't really remember another site where passes were categorized into two:

Short Pass less than 25m or yards

Long pass greater than 25m or yards.

I can't really remember these sites unless i check again.

elampiro:

I can only see three 90 minutes from September to November ending. Or am I missing something?

Sunderland, Arsenal and Bolton.

I can see that you have turned into a chameleon. That was the reason why i asked you to tell me how you determine fitness.

You posted that Hargreaves was out for three months in the first half of the league which brought about your claim of his three full time appearances between September and November.

Is it fitness that determines the minutes a player gets in a match?

What about Rooney, Anderson, Carrick, Tevez, Giggs and Nani who were either not featured or substituted in the match they appeared in? Were they also not fit?

During the same period, non of our midfielders played up to the number of 90 mins that Hargo had (3 full time games).
Carrick 0 full time game
Ando 2 full time games
Giggs 1 full time game
Hargo 3 full time games

Rooney 3 full time games
Tevez 1 full time game
Ronaldo 2 full time games

With your assertion that Hargo could only play 3 full time games because he was unfit, then SAF must have had a bunch of unfit players in Man Utd's team.

elampiro:
If he were fit he would have at least played 24. If any United fan doesn't know Hargreaves wasn't fit that period and even beyond, that fan should redcarded to join Okomu oil fan club. Don't you see he was managed to ruch to fitness for the Arsenal and Liverpool games? Did you not know Fletcher played some games last year just by manage? Does it mean he was fit? Was Michael Owen ever fit for us despite playing a few games? What about Vidic who played in alternative matches last season?

I can see that you know Hargo so well and you also know SAF so well.

If Hargo will play 24 games in the first half of the season, then where goes SAF's rotation policy?

It is a fact that during that first half period, only 27 games was available to be played by any Man Utd player in all competitions. How could Hargo have played 24 games when he wasn't the only and the best midfielder we had then? You are making me laugh.

As a matter of fact these are the number of games started by our midfielders during that first half:

Carrick 16 games started
Ando 12 games started
Scholes 12 games started
Fletcher 6 games started

Wingers/Strikers
Rooney 17 games started
Giggs 19 games started
Nani 13 games started
Ronaldo 20 games started
Tevez 20 games started

Defenders
Rio 24 games started
Vidic 23 games started
Evra 24 games started

Elampiro, stop distorting the facts!

How would Hargo have started/played 24 games when non of our midfielders was even close to 20 games?
Also, the last two seasons Hargo played at Bayern showed that he was even fitter when he got to Man Utd as against your assertion that his injury was being managed and that he wasn't fit.

This is becoming really irritating because the more you keep on posting the more all these your twist and turns, misrepresentation of facts and over exaggeration of Hargo's fitness issues, the more you keep on exposing your deficiencies in the knowledge of Man Utd as a club.

elampiro:

1. How many League, UCL matches are between August and December? Probably 26 or more.

If he were fit he would have at least played 24. If any United fan doesn't know Hargreaves wasn't fit that period and even beyond, that fan should redcarded to join Okomu oil fan club. Don't you see he was managed to ruch to fitness for the Arsenal and Liverpool games? Did you not know Fletcher played some games last year just by manage? Does it mean he was fit? Was Michael Owen ever fit for us despite playing a few games? What about Vidic who played in alternative matches last season?

2. Your chat has the number of 90 minutes played in that period.

3. See my first response above.

4. What do you mean by distorting fact? You refused to accept the truth. Owen was not fit and everyone knew it, perhaps except you and your allies.

These are the reasons why coogar calls you a liar.

elampiro:

We can see things in different ways sometimes, so I wont argue with you too much.

However, argument here so far have revealed that SAF always added a third man midfielder to Scholes and Carrick.

I still stand by my opinion, United need a midfield ball winner which I think we now have in Mr Afro. You cannot have it all, otherwise I need such a player with speed. To me a midfield player who is a ball winner and with creative attributes is also needed in a team to help the shadow markers. At least one.

I know you see things the way Bloggers see them.

elampiro:
I will start from you.

Hargreaves only manage to gain some fitness in the second half of the season. Hargreaves was out for three months in the first half of the season, what happened was that he would be managed in one game or half then his condition sends him out for another long time. We had similar case with Michael Owen, Fletcher and may be we can add Vidic too. Hargreaves was not fit at all.

This is my last post on this issue because it doesn't worth it when you keep on twisting what you wrote in English Language and not Japanese or Dutch.

You posted above above the bold. The first part of a football season in England ends in December and we always have about 4.5 months of active football within this period.

According to his record of appearances that i posted previously, Hargreaves appeared in 11 EPL and 1 UCL matches within that period. He played full time (90mins) in eight of the eleven appearances, average of over seventy mins in the remaining three matches. He spent the least time in a match within this period in the only UCL game he appeared in which was eleven mins.

These twelve matches altogether simply means that he played actively for about three months considering the fact that he played a game per week. Three months out of four and a half months gives us one and a half months that he did not appear in any match.

Where did you now see your THREE MONTHS?

elampiro:

So to you, someone who was only able to play two or three full games from 1st September to almost November ending was fit? He was being managed and playing through pains.

He played eight full time (90mins) games between August 19th, 2007 and December 29th, 2007. The only UCL game was against Sporting on 27th November, 2007.

My question to you elampiro is:

1. How come a player who was not fit could have played full time in eight games?
2. How did you arrive at your two to three full games from 1st September to almost November ending?
3. How do you determine fitness when record shows that he actually played nine hundred and fifty four minutes (954mins) in all competition?
4. Why do you keep on distorting facts?

I am done with this because it doesn't worth it at all when you keep on twisting and distorting facts.

coogar:





if we set up like this tomorrow, we should win easily but moyes might slot giggs into the frame and jeopardise us. actually, kagawa should play ahead of welbeck & nani should displace valencia.

I think i will like to see Kagawa play behind RVP in this formation. He has played two international friendlies in the past 8 days. The only thing that could prevent is maybe Jetlag.

elampiro:

I don't read football articles, I only do when you guys start mentioning 4-4-2 etc which I knew was not correct. We didn't play 4-4-2 in 2007/8 and someone here in a bid to support you guys in this argument has confirmed that we always used three man midfield whenever Scholes and Carrick played.

It was in the process of trying to confirm if you guys were right that I ran into some of these articles. I only further used the articles to corroborate what I know is true.

Another instance was when Coogar said Mourinho never kicked a ball, I was shocked. I had to quickly make reference. When you argue, you sometimes have to double check your opinion to ensure you are actually right or if it is the other party.

In that 2007/08 season Man Utd played mostly two-man midfield. Yes, we played three-man midfield in some few games and in some Hargreaves didn't feature at all.

Carrick/Scholes combo featured in nothing less than 15 games in all competition. We also had Scholes/Ando, Carrick/Fletcher, Hargo/Scholes, Carrick/Hargo, Ando/Hargo, Carrick/Ando, Ando/Hargo, Hargo/Fletch and Ando/Fletch.

Go and check those matches again, you will see that it was in few matches that we used three-man midfield.

elampiro:

I will start from you.

Hargreaves only manage to gain some fitness in the second half of the season. Hargreaves was out for three months in the first half of the season, what happened was that he would be managed in one game or half then his condition sends him out for another long time. We had similar case with Michael Owen, Fletcher and may be we can add Vidic too. Hargreaves was not fit at all.

I don't seem to understand you when you post things like these and when people corrects you, you still keep on posting false in formation. We are no longer in dark ages when there are no records to rely on. Hargreaves wasn't out for three months. There was NO MONTH that Hargreaves did not feature in Man Utd team right from August 2007 till May 2008.

These are games that Hargreaves appeared in that season in all competitions (24 EPL & 8 UCL)
EPL
11-05-08 Wigan Athletic 0 - 2 Manchester United 23
03-05-08 Manchester United 4 - 1 West Ham United 90
26-04-08 Chelsea 2 - 1 Manchester United 76
13-04-08 Manchester United 2 - 1 Arsenal 90
06-04-08 Middlesbrough 2 - 2 Manchester United 23
29-03-08 Manchester United 4 - 0 Aston Villa 28
19-03-08 Manchester United 2 - 0 Bolton Wanderers 90
01-03-08 Fulham 0 - 3 Manchester United 90
10-02-08 Manchester United 1 - 2 Manchester City 17
02-02-08 Tottenham Hotspur 1 - 1 Manchester United 46
30-01-08 Manchester United 2 - 0 Portsmouth 17
19-01-08 Reading 0 - 2 Manchester United 71
01-01-08 Manchester United 1 - 0 Birmingham City 16
29-12-07 West Ham United 2 - 1 Manchester United 80
16-12-07 Liverpool 0 - 1 Manchester United 90
08-12-07 Manchester United 4 - 1 Derby County 90
03-12-07 Manchester United 2 - 0 Fulham 90
24-11-07 Bolton Wanderers 1 - 0 Manchester United 90
11-11-07 Manchester United 2 - 0 Blackburn Rovers 77
03-11-07 Arsenal 2 - 2 Manchester United 90
27-10-07 Manchester United 4 - 1 Middlesbrough 66
01-09-07 Manchester United 1 - 0 Sunderland 90
26-08-07 Manchester United 1 - 0 Tottenham Hotspur 90
19-08-07 Manchester City 1 - 0 Manchester United 90

UCL
21-05-08 Chelsea 1 - 1P Manchester United 90
29-04-08 Manchester United 1 - 0 Barcelona 90
23-04-08 Barcelona 0 - 0 Manchester United 90
09-04-08 Manchester United 1 - 0 Roma 90
01-04-08 Roma 0 - 2 Manchester United 35
04-03-08 Manchester United 1 - 0 Olympique Lyonnais 0
20-02-08 Olympique Lyonnais 1 - 1 Manchester United 78
27-11-07 Manchester United 2 - 1 Sporting CP 11

So where is your three months absence?

Hidden

afrodoc: so according to elampiro
1) Roy Keane played in the 99 final

2) Sneijder is a "lion" who wins 50-50 balls unlike Kagawa

3) Messi started on the left of Barca's attack in 2008 but was chased to Evra's side by Hargreaves .......really?

4) As a corollary to no 3 above Messi was CLIPPED by Hargreaves

5) Hargreaves was preferred in big games to carrick and scholes despite the fact that in the 2nd half of the season Hargreaves started in CM in only ONE match against a top 4 team and only TWO out of 7 Champion's League matches while carrick and scholes started in 6 and 5 respectively.

Bros u might have played with karimu shaibu o but ur football analysis needs some reconfig.

The guy reads a lot of articles from bloggers and he believes so much in bloggers even if what the blogger wrote is totally in contrast to what he himself sees. The moment he posted an article to support all that he had said about Hargreaves, that confirmed what i was thinking that he must have been reading something from somewhere.

@elampiro believes so much in what he reads more than what he sees.

dopeJemi: 2008 champions League final, hau United's Line up Looked Like


Wes Brown--- Ferdinand-- vidic-- evra


HAGFREAVES-- schoLes-- Carrick-- Ronaldo


-------------Rooney--------Tevez-----------


E don do abeg

@elampiro will tell you now that it was 4-3-3 formation and that was why Hargreaves was running after Lampard and Cole. Loooooooooool

elampiro:

Stopping players doesn't mean it has to be a sole responsibility such that you divide yourself and mark them one on one. His presence on the right of the midfield was to be a clog in the attacking build up from that part of the field. Nani could have taken out Cole. But there were other threats.

And the other threats were Lampard and Malouda for him to stop? Hargreaves and Brown already had Cole and Malouda to contend with than for Hargreaves to then be running after Lampard in the central midfield position.

elampiro: .

I am tired, may be I should read this tomorrow.

You are only looking for an excuse after you have been found out.

elampiro: .
But 1. Which of the Lyon matches are you referring to?

Which one did you posted? Don't tell me you were just posting without reading what you were posting. Go back and check what you posted where Hargreaves came on in the 90th min.

elampiro: .
2. Had hagreaves been fit, he would play all maches.

So also if Scholes wasn't injured, Hargreaves wouldn't have played up to the total numbers of games he played when Scholes was injured. This would have reduced the number of games he started and increased the number of games started by Scholes. If Hargreaves was more important and better than Scholes in that team, it would have been difficult for Scholes to regain his place in the team. Instead, Scholes still started 18 games to Hargreaves' 10 in the 24 last games of the season.

elampiro: .
3. United didn't play two man midfield in so many games. Give us the matches and line up let's see the mix of the 3rd midfield player.

How did you arrive at this assertion? Stop saying what you don't know.

Go and check all the fixtures you will find out that Man Utd started two-man midfield in at least 39 games in all competitions.

elampiro: .
4. I repeat, Hagreaves games were managed based on his injury. I think he missed the first three matches of the season, followed by scanty games, just as Michael Owen did for us. But Hargreaves was used in the crucial games.

That is not correct as well. Hargreaves wasn't better than Scholes. The same Injury-case you are putting up for Hargreaves also applied to Scholes just like i have posted. Owen wasn't better than the strikers we had when he came.

elampiro: .
I respect Scholes but my point is he and Carrick were not good ball winners thereby allowing opponents to dominate us. Reason our cry for midfielders since 2009.

That was not the argument. We were never dominated during that season. 2006/07 and 2007/08 were two seasons we played one of the best football in history of the club and during those seasons Carrick/Scholes were played majorly as our two-man midfielder.

elampiro:

You have given the answer partially in the highlighted. Hargreaves was to stop Cole and Lampard, which he alone could do effectively based on his versatility and his energetic skilful style of stopping opponents from terrorizing our defence.

I guess you realize that Nani and Ronaldo played against Barca and many other big matches. Nani was on fire in his first season.

What kind of statement is this? How can Hargreaves be detailed to stop two players playing from different positions? What were other Man Utd midfielders doing or are we playing one man down? And you said that you were once a footballer! This is unbelievable. Hargreaves must have been on drugs to have been told to do that. You should have also included Malouda. Who was supposed to stop Malouda? Or have you forgotten that he also played in that game?

It is only a mad manager that will give such duties to one man. If he is running after Lampard, what would Malouda and Cole be doing? This is a Joke!

So many forum members have said it here that he was detailed to the RHS to reduce the threat of Ashley Cole and nothing more than that.

elampiro:

In how many games did Scholes pair with another in two man midfield in big games? I have mentioned some for Hargreaves.

I think I am done now. I have other things to do with time.

What did you mention for Hargreaves? Against Lyon that he came in on 90th min when Scholes actually started the midfield or your supposed big game that was no longer big game when some regular players were missing. If you must state any big games, you should as well mention the importance/relevance of such games.

Accepted that Hargreaves was a good player but you comparing his importance to Scholes' is really absurd.

This will tell us who was more important to the team between the two in all competitions(56 games):

Scholes was a constant feature at the beginning of that season. He started twelve games out of thirteen before he got injured, whereas Hargreaves started only three games in the corresponding games. Out of these thirteen, we won 10 games, drew two and loss one.

Scholes did not feature in the next nineteen games due to injury whereas Hargreaves started in only nine games during this period.

After coming back from injury, Scholes started eighteen games out of twenty four games as compared to Hargreaves starting ten games.

Who was more important?

Also, Scholes started about twenty two games in a two-man midfield in all competition in that season.

elampiro:

[b]Whenever you argue in bits like this, I won't always be able to respond. I could not even read, but my eyes catches something I just want to respond to.

Hargreaves was our strongest midfielder in 2008. SAF was comfortable adding anyone with him for a two man midfield. But he needed a third midfielder for Scholes and Carrick. FACT![/b]

You must be a big JOKER for stating the bold. Where will you rate Scholes then? In how many games was Hargreaves paired with any other midfielder in a two-man midfield?

You just make blind statement without fact to support such statements.

elampiro:

Now you want to derail the argument to formation. I keep that for another day.

Now, the big games I listed were the ones Hargreaves played without either or both Scholes and Carrick. He played against- Liverpool, Totteham, Chelsea, Arsenal and many others in the EPL. He played against Lyon, Roma, Barcelona and Chelsea in the UCL. He played one or two group matches too.

Who is talking about formation? I only told you that two midfielders combo was used mostly in that season which can only be possible in 4-4-2 which is the traditional formation of Man Utd.

All the matches mention are not convincing enough to tell me that Hargreaves was played only in big games. You need to give me any big games where Hargreaves started.

Anyway @cooger have already answered you in those matches you posted. I can't just imagine you listing a game where Hargreaves came in as a substitute in the 90th minute.

Let us have the number of games started by Hargreaves in the three-man midfield in Big Games. When you do that we can take it up from there. Don't for get that i said that Man Utd played 52 games in all competition in that season.