how time flies!
I guess i wasnt fantasing wildly then. Robots are now plausible future realities whose capabilities will rival nd inmost cases exceed humans.

it's no sin. It's just like runaway from that sexy hor.ny boss of urs like joseph did, God gives u thumbs up and bellows "this is my beloved son (and his wife) in whom I am well pleased (watchg dat teen get an an.al from 3 guys )". But in d movie store, wen confused abt which porn film to buy ask d Jesus 4 directions. He is with u and will guide u. If u go with ur wife, 2 of u can hold hands in a prayer of agreement 4 wisdom and direction concerning d po.rn film purchase.. It wud look really romantic seeing husband and wife close eyes,bow head, lock hands in a public place in serious heartfelt sincere prayer (that availeth much). I wonder if angel's laff because God may have to prioritise a wisdom 4 which po.rn film to buy prayer and a other more "important" requests coming in at the same time.. But giv it a try man!

they're actually many sides to this issue.
being a man - it may be out of inconvenience.
Girl is too ugly to consider a sexmate: guy begrudgingly settles for a 'friend'.
The more georgious she is the less likely this it to happen.
2.) long distance relato:
Guy/girl want to tear each others cloths off but for the distance, they grudgingly settle for "friendship"
3.) Guy getting his sha.g else where:
Sex is relaxing - so guy gets his sha.g, and can think calmly enough not to pounce on the "friend" bf him.
4.) Guy stayed friends so long , desire petered out:
this is one lke trying to teach an agbero how to speak queens english, relato too far gone
in friend mode its embarrasing to switch to sex mode.
besides, the feeling is mutual: female will mooch emotionally on the free male under the friend toga.
and the guy will mooch sexually - if he could.
Guys, also mooch emotionally under women in the name of "friend" relationship.
The babe fills the emotional maternal void in their lives while their girl friends fill the sexual/physical void.
its still sponging. And the girls who let themselves get mooched on, like to play mothers to baby men!!

But in some rare rare cases - out of deep respect for each other - sex cannot even be an issue.
even the thought of it may be out of the question. but its rare.

....

----

@fayi google most popular language. Do ur research. The nearer a language is to a speaking/thinking language the more it will b adopted even at the risk of xtra verbiage. because u think (more easily) in the language u speak in. (or write in 4 second language folks). More people adopted java over cpp , c cuz java is nearer english (a natural thinking/speaking language) than its predecessors wtout being as diluted as vb. If ur still confused by ths theory talk it over with ur professors.

lisp is shunned because of psychological rather than technical reasons.

my theory is - once a person learns a speaking language formally,
he thinks in this language and concocts abstractions with it.
therefore after he becomes proficient in using his thinking language,
inertia, reluctance and drag sets in to learn another thinking language.
That is why, people can unconsciously read a headline on a newspaper
while in rush hour traffic (because english etc is their thinking language)
than read a methamatical symbol ,formula.
after they man learnt english, (which takes time but is amelioriated because he started
learning as a child),
he's now conversant with english, unconsciously thinks in it -
so any programming language that approximates the thinking language of the common
man will be more quickly adopted even if its not too unpardonably verbose.
Java is nearer to english than lisp.
c,c++ will never have a large following because of their difference from english
and kids will continue to be scared of maths because of its polar distance from english,
not really that the concepts represented by the garish space saving symbols are
so hard to understand.
Visual basic is the most popular language of all times ? why? - its the nearest to a thinking language(english) there is.
and its nearness to an already familiar thinking tool , makes newcomers forgive whatever
performance flaws it has rather than try to relearn,painfully, a new set of strange
symbols and rules ( a new language).

language(in earlier contexts) = non programming language . speaking language.

@skywalker

in case you dont know what context means - it would be better for you to
read comments and arguments and understand their context before firing.
when r. stallman used the word "libre" to describe the kind of "freedom" he was advocating
he qualified it to mean - free (to alter and modify the program) not socialistic freedom (to restrict or forbid selling the software or forbid a programmer earning money from his labour- though theyre strong elements of socialism in open source software movement).
In the context , i've used here -
i first used "open source" the term to encompass all software that are either
"open" - source code available
or/and - "free" - executable /(source code available).
most people praise open source on moral grounds , which i agree is commendable.
but on other grounds - it is detrimental for the very reason it is free.
the context is clearly understood - the term used is not so misleading as to befuddle
or confuse any thinking person .
so why is the choice of term such an issue here.
from the context of my argument -
closed source software , with opened up source code - will still create this effect
because the source code could be replicated and spunned off and recompiled and redistributed (though not likely . )
besides - most proprietary software RARELY open up their source code.
so the bulk of opened source programs are also libre - in the context stallman explained-
.

--
in your previous post you went to great lenghts to tell me the diff btw open source
and free software.
you said adobe , microsoft, yahoo messenger give away free software but are not free.
this has no direct bearing and is out of context of the point i was making.
microsoft,adobe ,yahoo rake in $Billions of actual dollars a year.
therefore they are economic boosters to their countries economy (and to the world's economy as a whole.
And they still spin off - peripheral industries . much like
non free laptops create jobs for laptop repairers and accessory makers.
debunking the counter point that open source /libre software (e.g wordpress)
create jobs in the peripheral waters)
yahoo and adobe are not economically detrimental- one of the thrusts of
my arguments about open source being evil.
microsoft and yahoo are not "libre" in the sense i meant.
i use "libre" in the sense , richard stallman , used and i used it
with the understanding that "libre" doesnt exactly translate to "free" in english.
it more like free+ (free plus additional qualifications)
qualifications like: free to alter to ones hearts delight not just free to run on ones system.
Again, which software classes fall under the "libre" software i'm talking about?
, if i have to explain this to you or anybody - then maybe you should nt be reading this.
the most popular open source iconic applications are "libre".
- free to alter,modify,distribute,charge money for, sell,resell etc.
this class of products have detrimental value economically which is little talked about.
despite their morally laudable values.


@skywalker - if you dont want to not come off as shallow,
argue to the main point of an argument instead of
engaging in character attacks or making peripheral snide comments.
you've neither argued to the points raised or countered - so why the
petty side talk?

@all - if you're still confused - no reasonable reader will be .
then intereprete it as you think i mean after reading my previous posts.
interprete it in the light of what the average person means by "open source " software.
when the average netizen uses the term "open source" what comes to mind!?

on a drastic note y not contact the company behind d vb decompiler u gat . Table ur problem to them to see if they can assist u.

by nigerian if u mean indigenous workforce and workplace some s/w wont make the list. Systemspecs wont.

^^
you should learn to read the philosophy of a detailed argument fully before spouting half baked comments.
I in the earlier posts I grouped open source and software given away for free as Libre software
and made my point on one aspect of it that is detrimental - mainly economically detrimental.
i dont want to elaborate some more that would be redundant.
come away from your typical mentallity which is the conventional praise of libre software
on moral grounds to access the other darker side of the argument i pushed.
johnbendie couldnt follow the argument i proposed which is a valid argument -
but veered over to praising libre software on its moral grounds -
morally, libre software advocates could (and have ) won national medals-
economically, the detriment of this librality is inevitable. do some thinking on this before
replying.
the devastation of libre software is not only economical but also projectural.
johnbendie said money could be made with open source still, i mean libre software ,
e.g people make money creating wordpress themes.
that's a pale response.
peripheral industries would inevitably have sprung up around any popular technology.
the peripheral industries would generate a tidy sum but not as high as what would be
generated by the commercial rakings of the main technology itself.
in a way the impact is hard to compute because it is an opportunity cost , not an
actual cost that is forgone,nevertheless the opportunity which is still a cost,
runs into (my estimate) $trillions!!.
it is this opportunity cost forgone by the libre spirit that i say is evil!
because an injection of that amount into the world economy - would have generated
lots more money! more billionaires - i'm talking from an objective and capitalist viewpoint.
i know what open source licenses state - dont educate me on that.
if you're to counter fault the core of my argument not tarry on fringe issues.
i grouped free and open software under libre software. my point is not obtuse so
stay on track and reply to the issue i brought up.
".. dont go around saying things like you said here next time.. "
- any sweeping reply. what "did i say here next time" , quote me within context!.

yeah feel u. But its a shame and a big big one if craiglist colonises this turf. This is a problem that shud hav been solved by local enterprise. Anoda reason i think craigslist may score is its brand image. Naijans love associatng wt brand names. But lets see how it plays out.

man, the days of local niche locale based website is over.
Any web based business has to be fully executed cuz corporate honed commandoes are invading
the turf that teens and youths with a pc/lappy tinkering html and css and so on once hoped
to colonise.
Craiglist in africa!! well lets see how it plays out.
for the jobberman thing, i had expressed my sentiments earlier. there's no direct
value correspondence for candidates paying for jobs except for those who are already
favored (no thanks to the various age , so on biases in the industry).
. secondly, there's no actual real value creation or increase from the entry of a match making firm,
the availabe jobs in the country wont triple or double because
a matchmaker website debuted. besides the only way they could prbly aim to try to stay
afloat is not going to go down well with job seekers,
that is by trying to make themselves the main job seeking door way!!
a firm tried it once and got lambasted ,when they tried to make themselves the default
, interview test administrators on behalf of corporations,
people really reacted.
the firm is now history. it died in a hurry.

i hope you guys are getting my drift.
I love libre software - free compilers, free editors , free bit torrent client etc,
but thats for me a developer,
the altruisic spirit of libre software is noble.
the moral objective of empowering the user is applaudable
but the point is libre software aftermaths like carbon and noise emission from
a lister generator cannot not have economic negative consequences which
i care to outline here.
some of your retorts occur because of your unwillingness to ascribe sour truth
to a cause that has been so praised.
ha.
suck the sour grapes sirs. its good for you all.
clear your minds with some alkaline juice..

PARDON THE LONG POST DUDES BUT .. AINT GAT NO TIME TO EDIT..drink the whole slup all of it...
---------
You guys should stop acting as if somebody snatched your feeding bottle. i know you like sucking the open source sup but
clear your head,put the bottle away and think along.
I know you all like this open source thing - me too.
but i'm not ignorant of its impact.
Libre software (software given away for free ) is software that
was designed to empower the users. there's strong pragmatic
incentive for creating libre software , i wont enumerate here.
However, for each libre software that hit the street, commercial
software lost one.
total the domino effect of so many libre software running on pc's
see what income could have gone into the world economic system.

libre software has been good to me as a programmer.
libre software has been good to most poor folks as end users.
but libre software has been a heavy economic meteor on the world it hit. the world is yet to compute the loss so far.

to give you an example of libre instances that were cracked down upon
:
free music sharing --- napster (music industry cried fowl , cracked
down on it seriously. the cried out for
loss of free revenue.

outcome of the napster file sharing application debuting:
most artiste discovered that they were static cows, being milked
by their record labels , who made so much from their sweat and paid
them less.
yes,the music industry is cabalistics and devious.
libre software exposed this but didnt empower the artists
economically. )

ebooks ,edocuments p2p file sharing applications :
limewire,kaaza etc ------ ( gave users access to economic digital goods without pay denying creators of the products any form of economic compensation. civilized society litigated against limewire and the rest, end result: limewire , kaaza were shut down.
what was the grouse of the aggrieved parties against limewire,kaaza,
demonoid?! - denial of economic revenue)

The very nature of libre software is in principle to empower end-users,
but that goal is a two-edged sword, by empowering users by giving away free alternatives - you are equally creating a substitutionary effect
that creates economic ripples.
for every software you or anybody uses or acquires for free,
an commercial alternative is forgone!
this mass effect - is bad for any economy.

do i enjoy libre software sure! - i would have made the progress i've made at the speed i've made it without libre software.
but is it true that many people wouldnt have gotten into programming/web dev if there was no libre software. Yes yes yes.
there wouldnt have been many programmers because of the price tag.
This is the bane of the capitalist system.it will always create
an excluded residue.
But on the good side, software would have earned greater respect,
not all software has acquired any form of respect,
for most classes of software there's as much respect for it as
there is for dirt.that's because these classes of software have
been free for so long.

Please folks, stop the personal diversion, i didnt write the essay because i've been stung by free software, and i never insinuated such
in my statement i dont know where you guys got that from.
My personal qualification has no bearing on what i'm posting,
to make such a comment i dont even need any technical qualification,
this is simply an accessment of a trend on an economic system.

>> Fedora linux (see wikipedia)
was developed at an estimated value exceeding $1B dollars!!
i mean the developers deserve medals for their altruism, great.
give them standing ovations and claps.
but think alternatively,
what if fedora were developed at an actual payout of $1B?
developers would be paid,
the economy would be $1b richer, the multiplier effect
would have increased the money like dough!
but for now, the group of developers have invested $1B worth
of economic effort without any compensation.
When a user downloads Fedora or any linux distribution,
do they appreciate the fact that it is worth $1B+? no.
its like trash , its like other internet dust they gather on their
system. But for the software they shelled out money for
there is appreciation.
With so much free software for grabs, the world has been spoiled
silly by a movement that supposedly decided to go after big
organized companies!! too bad it shot itself in the foot.

>> gratis is nice to have but money is better:

How many people use google adsense world over!?
so many.
why? google isnt giving away free advertising. Google
is a corporation that is profit motivated. And
you only need to look around you at the many web developers,
work at home moms, unemployed folks (fired from the corporate world)
that have made fortunes from a software capitalist.
Because google pays out cash, many folks in 3rd world countries
that would have been looking up to government or roaming the street,
have money in their pocket.
The owner of this forum i bet you would never want to lose his adsense dollars for some altruistic libre enthusiast.

Gratis is disrespectful of the value invested in a product.

if i put in 1 000 hours into a making a frivolous product, and then give it
away for free. then i really dont have much respect for my time or
i had so much free time to burn.
it's even more foolish if i have bills to pay.
if an entire movement makes a goal to create and give away
large chunks of world class products for free,
then they shouldnt blame the end user world for
having a condescending attitude for software.

>> The end user community despises gratis software:

Think of many corporations that hate php.
the use corporation backed software for their development.
think of many who use Oracle ,shelling thousands of dollars,
to buy and use it for data storage.
Think of many who use mysql,but pinch their noses to use it,
furiously planning on vanquishing it with a better commercial
alternative.
so what has free software succeeded in acheiving? garnering
contempt for themselves?!
Think of the folks who steal to buy a blackberry,
hate their pc and dream of a mac!?
think of the movies shown with apple laptops co-starring.
libre software has garnered tonnes of contempt.
thanks for its socialist thinking.

>> Libre software is digital socialism.

you may not like this,but socialist russia and india,
were noted for their austere unbalanced standards.
socialism bred poverty.
only the beaurocracy benefitted from the largesse of
the land. the so called equitable re distribution of
factors of living was a farce.
why so?
because gratis and altruism cannot sustain productive motivation,
but hopes of raking in big money or (small or some money) has
provided high octane fuel to propel people to put in their best
at work.
Most pure libre software are so terribly documented, have
crappy interfaces , are so technical as to scare of
lay users,suffer from poor support, straggles along
commercial variants (Not all the time though)
,its apparent money is needed to prop folks up.

>> most popular libre softwares have benefitted from corporate support
mor than it cares to give credit for.

think of developer tools here:
Eclipse ide - worth 40M (great - but libre guys hate corporates!!)
netbeans ide -
java - (oracle support)
openjdk - (couldnt continue after ibm pulled out!! oops.
)
c++ (brought to limelight and sustained by microsofts visual c++ series)

Basic (would died in academia had microsoft not created vb)

perl ( popularised by oreilly books )

lisp (languishing language for lack of corporate backing..)


>> capitalist software still strongly preferred.

Ask users of c++ ides , they'll tell you visual studio is it.
many hard core programmers use evil empires visual studio
the sell for as high as $5000+ . yeah.
so long mingw and free software.
so long.

>> free software often go been underutilized
(backfiring of over supply)

think for example. i download tonnes of ebooks.
there are some i've not even read or flipped a look
in a long time!!
but i got it cuz its free.
this means i've not gotten as much satisfaction from
their acquisition as i would have if they were more scarce.
The over abundance and ease of acquisition has led to
waste.
how many wasted breathes do you take in a day!?
no thanks to over supply.
on the other hand,
if i had to buy each ebook i bet i'd really want
to consume it thoroughly.
some linux distros have tonnes of software that the
user will never even use!
yet, addicted to the acquisition some users
will download all linux distros out there.
ever noticed how people queue up to buy apple products?
that's because the price of apple stuffs are royal!.
When you get an apple product you want to show off (most people do)
nobody wants to show with the one-laptop-per-child libre
stuff.

>> libre software movement aims to open up any software with a large
user base!
-------
all fundamental software have been "liberated".
Think about the richest people in the world,
they make their money from sellling essentials.
not luxuries.
bill gates sold a software without which a computer cudnt be used.
Mtn sells air time, phone services are essentials.
Wal mart sells groceries and household goods at low prices.
Dangote sells salt,sugar,flour,etc (food)

now, in the software arena,
essential software like text editors,
calculators,
clocks, etc have all been liberated - if this were not the case,
$Billions would have been made of them.
libre software movement has moved to create free versions of
any software with a worldwide user base!!
oops . i see so many software millionaires kicked out of the gravy train.
while you can download 10 text editors for free and delete them
at will, this so called basic applications are outcomes of
expenditure of economic resources.
you may argue that for any libre software they're folks who've made
money by offering side services- true.
but the money made from a side service to a libre software
cannot compare the money that could have been made if the
software were not free.


>> stop re inventing the wheel? (silly advice)
its only in software you hear this.
in other industries they make money by not-innovating!
they re invent the wheel year in year out and rake in
$Billions . in software, the developer has to keep on his toes,
because the last big innovation has been "liberated"! yuck.

>> there's money to be made in software?!
-----------------------------------
of course, there some open niches,but honestly,
that's because, those niches are too peculiar for open source
to invade.
e.g locale based software. tailored to a particular country.

I'll give a case in point.

there are many version control systems.
bitkeeper,subversion,mercurial,etc.
there are also commercial variants.

some use commercial version, others use free versions.
users now have a free alternative and cry foul if
commercial price is to high because they can always dump it
and pick up free- and if free doesnt do what they like,
they can tweak it!
muck.
what it there wasnt even free to start with?
then only commercial wold b available?
and how much would commercial cost! over the roof!
making some guy a millionaire faster.
but the libre enthusiasts have killed the bargaining
power of non-free software. and free software is steadily
dragging price of non-free software down to its hapless level.
the only exceptions here are like i said , niche software.

^^
the term may not fit since it has very little logic in it, but i was using
it
in the sense of the variable being better than the relatively dumb variables we typically use.
But with configuration,like i said before, its smarts could
be upgraded.
in the original original example,the smart variable cud be preset to a certain size,
in later posts i said it could be made to function like a typical scalar variable
- have no histories.

anyway here's the example:
--------------------------------------------------------------

IT'S A BIT CONTRIVED THOUGH ,

say you own 20 shares of traded stocks on the nigerian stock
exchange. you want to know what shares will give the highest
value to your portfolio as the stock prices fluctuate among other

things.
with the best combination of stocks you can make a buy decision
to swell your portfolio.

the stocks each start the day at a particular price.
for the sake of relevance,lets say you're only interested in
price movements that are within a certain significant range.
lets say +/- N10 of the starting price.


for each significant price movement, your total portfolio value
changes accordingly,
the particular stock creates a trend,
so you want to watch the trend created by the volatile stock on its

own,
and the portfolio value trend on its on,
then, you may want to analyse values between changes.
intra period analysis.
you may will also want to compare stocks to one another during the

day.
Your program polls the NSE website ,extracting data, and analysing the

data.

let the 10 stocks be:
A,B,C,D,E,F,G,... to the tenth alphabet.

and lets say stock A had 15 significant changes during the day
(i.e +/- N10)

stock B had 10 significant changes,
stock C had no change (its a dud)
stock D had 18 significant changes
stock E had 6 etc...

if for each individual change in a stock value i want to
compute my networth as well capture the values of all stocks
at that time, i'll be having a factorial computation on my hands.
ignoring the stocks that didnt have any significant change,
because multiplication by zero will mess up the computation.

now with this factorial computation and snapshots performed,
a picture of the stock market at that day has been captured for
every single significant change event.
the problem however is that it is very large! (a factorial)

so in the example i gave:
A changed 15 significant times,
B changed 10
C no change
D 18 changes
E 6 changes

snapshot of portfolio for all changes will be:

15*10*1(for c)*18*6 (and so on...)

and for each change - the picture of my stocks at those moments are

stored.
also remember for each significant change your portfolio's total value
is recomputed, and stored -
the size of the data structure to capture all the portfolio total

value for all changes will have to a factorial (too large for any

practical purpose)

even a super computer would be brought to its knees with too many

computations of this nature not too talk of the memory requirement
of any computer.
it would just too much.
imagine 200 stock analysis! = 200! ( a very large number)

But if the a smart variable is used to store the values of each
stock data during changes,
then the massive information that would need to be generated
for each stock change can still be generated any time.

say stock A is represented with a smart variable,
at the end of the trading day,
stock A, variable's LIFO stack has 15 objects.
the entire program is i.e the variables are serialized,
taken home, run on anoda virtual machine (java speak here)
the stock A , still has its 15 object values,
stock B,has its 18 object values, etc.
the program run at home doesnt need to poll the NSE website to
download data in real time,
it just runs the serialized program you brought from work.

The factorial problem is still there - excessive output -
but with a smart variable, and an ability to analyse capture
on a stock by stock basis,
all you as the end user needs to do is-
ask the smart variable,representing the stock,
to give all the data in its container.
in the case of stock A,it will produce 15 values,
in the form of LIFO order.
You click on a particular value in the list,
and the portfolio value at that point in time is reproduced
for you.
Further analysis could be done on the captured value in the
smart variables container to rank it in ascending or descending
order, but the time value would be lost - since with LIFO ordering
a sense of time is preserved without using time stamps.
you know the last input is the latest input etc.

in an app like this , even if a smart variable isnt explicitly
created, the variable to hold the data would still mimic
a smart variable concept.
e.g
A sequence data structure would be created.(list , vector,stack)
stored in a stock class object.
configured to reject insignificant values (not +/- N10)
etc.
methods to get previous data from the object (histories query)
etc.
which is the point i was trying to score about a smart variable,
a variable that has histories!
you can also see that though the stock data at any point in time
is a double , the stock data cannot be sufficiently represented
as a scalar type. with the primitives that come with
typical languages - .
a stock data changes over time, yet it is still the same entity
and the stock data for a particular stock generates histories
(backreferencing) so why not represent it with a smart variable!

with no explicit smart variable object in a programming language
, programmers are doomed to creating them as one-of data types.



what of the portfolio changes!
again this can be captured in a smart variable!! but
not in this century!!- because it is has factorial size!.
the walk around this is to use an external database with
TERABYTES OF STORAGE SPACE, TONNES OF TIME STAMPS, A QUERY LANGUAGE,
ETC.
but this is where it gets beautiful,
if a smart variable could capture the portfolio summary for each

change,
and that smart variable were serialized,
a client application can now ask the smart variable for its contents,
in the case of the portfolio smart variable,
each cell in its stack will be a table ( containing stock names, stock

quantity, stock price (at time of capture), etc)
a client retrieving the content of this
portfolio smart variable can now
re-rank them in say highest to list,
extract the say 100,1000 highest sets (but time information will be

lost because it wont be strictly LIFO AFTEr this)
and rank the best performing stocks against their value at the

begining of a particular time period say at the beginnning of the day,
week,month)

after this analysis, of the highest sets in the portfolio smart

variable's stack, over time , a trend may be identified e.g
some stocks always make it into the highest set,
a month of this or a 3 or 6 months of this and the portfolio
owner may have concrete evidence to make buy sell decision with.

BUT LIKE I SAID,its expensive.
the walk around would be to use - a huge database,
for the portfolio analysis and data storage - but t his is where it
gets messy.
when the stock analyst/portfolio owner is going home at the end of
the day, assuming all the stock watching occurred on anoda system
and the program isnt run online,
he'd have to replicated the database , and learn a query language,
to do everything that could have been done in one place
if the program had an in-memory database by virtue of its smart

variables containers.

secondly,like i said earlier,
even if the user doesnt explicitly use a smart variable l ike i

proposed to hold the stock data,
if he's to keep the contents in memory, he'll inevitable re-create
a smart variable,
but with a smart variable,
the roll back thing i talked about can be very easy to do.
without it, say the user uses a traditional database,
the code to do the rollback can be very messy.

if the user creates a custom data structure, he may not even remember
to implement features for roll back.
but with a smart variable, to get previous data,
all that's needed is a functioncall. because a smart variable is
custom built to make recalling past value possible.

hope i've been able to make some sense instead of ramble-
like i said, a use may appear more apparent after it is implemented.

naija hackers cant compete if all theyre good at is the internals of a programming language. This domain specific (os , computer archtcture, computer security, etc.) not the kind of stuff xyz in 21days will offer.

@john grow up and stop actng like a sour puss. What's wrong with sharing an idea? Read and digest b4 commentng, i know we all hav shortening attention span but bringing up an issue that had been pain stakingly addressed is bad enuff. " Problem are well known and understood ... ": really? Many ideas are not novel only re-discovered independently . But if as u say it is well understood then papers and articles on this partcular issue shd b rife. Either saying its innefficient/impractical/bunkum/etc or so-so/worth considering. Give citation sir. "immutability could b a way to describing the solution to ur problem": - another premature shot. I never was talking about immutability ONly , of course to have an unbaised history the variable in question wud have to Write-once , once data is recorded it cannot b changed aka immutability, but a smart variable doesnt require an internal stack (data structure) for that. I'm talking about a lot more than immutability. "to understand your problem, write a use case and share it here ": this must b a joke, right. A use case including configurations could take up to 5 classes nd an arbitrary amount of code. I wrote a simple prototype class in the original post and very lenghty follow up posts , if any cant grasp the english then why bother with code? "you need to understand the basic difference btw primitives, data types, data structures " : again ur missing the point and confusing concepts. The only objective item on that list of urs is the data structures and this is only because data structures are objective language-independent mathematical entities every other is arbitray. In some languages arrays are the primitives , in others lists are , in a language like rebol the primitives are even much more complex so to reduce confusion i define a primitive as the basic building block(bbb) u use to build ur program with. In java, c, c++,etc int,char,booleans,strings are bbb's there used to build a program. So a smart variable is a bbb cuz it cud b used to build a program also.it could b the most basic element in a program if need b or mixed with non-smart bbbs. "your trying to build a data structure which if u do cud b a source of revenue": i'm not trying to build a data structure. Why shud i !? Most wat i need is available and i'm not trying to make money. I'm not even trying to implement a so called smart variable. " I need to study up on algorithms and complexity " : i hav and still am open to learng this issue doesnt need advaced algorithm knowledge. Rich hickey and closure : essentially the so called smart variable is a data banking immutable configurable bbbs. So a language with inbuilt database can do what a smart variable can, but the snag is an inbuilt databasr is corruptible cuz any client can access it an change its data but a smart variable cannot have its data changed so it can b more secure . But its not a big issue since db's can b configured. @lordzouga by current architecture (memory especially and processor speed ) a smart variable doesnt make economic sense. Judging it by its economic infeasibilty is evaluating it from todays viewpoint. All things trening tomorrows computers will much much more powerful than what we have today. I'm thinking in terms of say a computer that is 10 - 30x faster /larger memory wise for a basic test run. It could be much much more for signicant apps. I hav an example in mind and may post it later.

@lordzouga "a primitive made up of data structures?" . Yes yes yes. That's the only way the required functionality can be acheived. My case is hypothetical like i had explained in previous posts, the justification 4 the endeavour being that this smart varaible would have a feature current varaibles dont have i.e it's not amnesiac (doesnt forget previous state). You're alarmed that a "primitive" cud have inbuilt data structures! I'm not . I use the word primitive in the sense of an object that is a basic building block in a system. E.g cells are the primitives in the human body but a cell is a very complex composition. So yes, i'm fantasing or musing about a language where its basic building block (it's primitives) is smrter than the what we typically have. Current primitives are simple cells that store only a single value and so by design are amnesiac (forgetful). Dont forget that modern languages have some advanced primitives like the string class. Big integers for arbitrary sized numbers. These are composite data types with containers and some intelligence designed to be used at the primitive level. What i'm proposing is only more complex . On the cost issue, i said they could some work arounds, e.g set container size etc. "it is impracticable"! . If u say this, ur reasoning from todays viewpoint. Tomorrow could provide architectures that are 1000 times more advanced ,speed and memory wise. Remember, java garbage collection and vm was once shut down as no no but those features have set the bar for subsequent post-java languages. So assess the idea with a futuristic mindset where memory is more abundant processor faster etc. @fayimora this isnt functional programming nor an advocacy for that paradigm. Functional programming tackles variable amnesia by making variables write-once , data value isnt changed after it is set, in a way the smart variable i'm talking about is assisted by a stack (LIFO), so it has a history and is state reversible a feature not currently available in popular languages. I proposed this because it mimics real life organisms more. As we go thru life we change states but we dnt forget our previous states and we carry the memories of the past with us effortlessly. "facebook/twitter social graph" "run out of memory!" - u didnt read my last post b4 shooting. I prescribed some cost cutting measures that cud b put in place to reduce overhead. Of corse a purpose built virtual machine wud have to b implemented. I'm not going to repeat myself again. Besides face book social graph is more of a static data structure with people adding/removg /querying nodes. I'm thinking more seamless ai applications that need to vre evaluate past data without losing hold of present. Even if memory were not the issue the cost of making simulations using some of the histories of a smart varaible would be very expensive (run in factorial time). "u find it hard to comprehend.../ gather ur thoughts in few words" - the concept is more multidimensional and unconventional. So it cannot be relayed to an askance audience without washing it with a lot of words. Gather my thoughts into in few words ! On forum that caters to spontanaeity. I'm typing on fly mister not writing a newspaper editorial,mister!. If you dont understand me , re-read and digest my proposition b4 rushing off a premature reply. Have u visited other forums or read other peoples essays thyre some long works weaving a point out there.

free source has had it's much touted good side my post was about the after and dark effect of libre software. Besides free soft while having the noble motive of protecting user freedom has always been anti to commercial software a case exemplified in the spite against ubuntu linux by libre software purists because ubuntu is supported by a commercial enterprise.

the jobberman business model is dicey. We all know that nigerian employers are basically idealistic slave drivers who so into "lookism" : physique/face based hiring criteria inter alia. So the affected parties have no gaurantee of receiving any value for their money! Paying N2500 /m to jobbrman is a gamble if i dont have a pretty cv. So theres no direct one on one value transfer like i'll enjoy if i pay the same amount to mtn for their 3g data plan for web browsing, or for a flight ticket online etc. because a potential customer fears losing his money, patronage may drop. More over connecting a candidate to an employer is no gaurantee of securing a job, candidate cud still fail the interview etc . If they make the fee less say N1000 then it wud considered throw-away money by the gambler (job seeker) and more seekers will come on board. Two, they could make it employer centric (charge employer) not seeker, eliminate advertising (to project a decent corporate image) . Then moree seekers will patronise which will attract more employers and before u know it you've got the google effect.

okay. Let me call this a smart variable. You'll notice its a primitive that is made up of a data structure,and some algorithms. No. I dont intend to give the impression that it will be be used outside the runtime. The debugging example, is just one of the uses i can think of for it. Theyre myriads of others that cud b discovered during usage. It will b very expensive to use to use in todays architecture,if and only if it is not configurable e.g a smart variable cud b configured to operate like todays scalar primitive variables (i.e it doesnt remember previous state) or a variation of that e.g store last x values (x could 1 or 10 or 100) etc so configuration could minimize cost. On the debugging issue, u know software testg and debugging takes more time than the actual programming, so detecting variable state is a real need. But insted of stepping thru code wt a debugger, u could go to run the program and make a particular smart variable printout its histories! While the program is running. Bye bye for loops, bye bye excessive tracing. Anoda point i mentioned is the use of previous state data in real time. With current typical languages i know of, and i dont know enuff, previos data is lost and cannot be recovered after assignation. E.g x=1 (first assgn) x=2 (second assgn . First assgn lost forever!) . To recover previos states, programmer (physically "walks" thru the source code using his eyes). Debugging is just one aspect , anoder could b program recovery and roll backs, for example in the "x" example if the program crashed at an unknown point , the interptreter could asked to run the program but substitute the nth assignment with n-y assignment if it is suspected that the nth assignment was doubtful. Think, of , undo redo at the primitive level . If it exists at the primitve lvl via smart variables it may b easier to create apps with this effect. Add serialization and data compression wt timing and an os can have all applications revert to previos state. Imagine an outage yet ur system desktop can revert back to the state it was 10ms ago. Imagine a stock analyses app where "wha if" analyses are run as stock value changes in real time. Presently databases are used to store data and require a query language but it cud b easier. Fact is primitively smart languages dont compare performance -wise with their imperative counterparts. Lisp,ruby are still slow while c,c++ still ace speed tests.

summary:
Ability is your highest certification (not ocjp,not bsc,not phd certs )
something i've been struggling to drum into bone headed minds.
here's somebody proving it in print!!!

^^
ok. let me try to explain.
what is the use you say?
um -- since this feature isnt in current programming languages - it would be
hard to explain it to a user but if it were i guess people would find a use
for it.
e.g old vb didnt have recursion ? so explaing recursion to a vb user would sound
like greek,but a c,c++ , java user would wonder how ever they coped without it?

potential usefulness:
----------------------
debugging purposes. (this implementation will cripple even a very fast machine cuz
its memory and computationally intensive. but that aside - it really mimics
"real life scenerio . think of "flash back" .
current languages would need meta programming to achieve this effect.
if you use c++ , its complex enough,
if you use java ! reflections is messy enough)

imagine this source code:
--------------------------
class B
{

function a()
function b()
function c()
function d()
function e()
etc

}

now when testing the code.
you want to know where you are!
lay programmers use "system.out.println"
when at function a()
println() prints the location as "function a()"
when in function b() println() prints "function b()"
etc.
problem is say there is a client using class B.
say class Bclient.
when class Bclient calls B.a() - the print out is "function a"
when it calls B.b() - the printout is "function b"
when it for debugging sake , the order of functions calls is important,
like, which function did i trace before the current one?! -
then more boiler plate code is written.
more data structures are called up , like stacks and lists,
it begins to get messy.
But sometimes in heavy debugging sessions - order of execution and a datatype
that "can remember" is needed!!
in typical oop languages there's nothing like this.
when a variable holds it's present value , the last value is lost forever!!
it like oop variables suffer terrible amnesia.
But believe me , if this need were addressed many many many uses would crop up for it.
Kinda,like the naira land function thing i posted sometime ago.
this how the philosophy works.
People use what they have. and if they dont know more they're okay with the status quo
this status quo is "reality" to them.
but when the "reality" is augmented by new implementation - they adopt it.

some measure of this implementation:
in functional programming.
in fp, a variable is assigned once.
and it retains it value throughout the life time of the app.
i.e it doesnt suffer amnesia.
say X = 10.
X will always be 10. (except it is "purged"
this makes debugging really easy. the coder never has to wonder what the "previous value of X was"
in oop.
X could assume infinite values!!! .

say.
X=10 (line 1)
y=20 (line 2)

for(;x<200;x++) {x assumes so many values }

x=x/20 (line 30) etc.

have you ever gone thru your source code , reading it over to find what value x was at each particular time?! (then you're in essence doing what a smart varaiable should be doing-crudely)

or have you seen this in code:

using a tracer (e.g system out.println() or a debugger)

x=10; println("x is "+x)
x=20;//print it out .. (you'r tracing the history of all the storage values of x thru out your program.

USING THE SMART VARIABLE ALTERNATIVE.

SINCE A SMART VARIABLE CAN REMEMBER ALL ITS PREVIOUS VALUES UP A CERTAIN POINT..
to get previous value of a variable you query the variable itself!!

now at line 1000. you're using the variable 'x' .
variable printFunction(variable)
print all variables of x from current value back to initial assigned value.
This will do print 20,10 etc.
bye bye println.
bye bye debugger at 1000 lines below sea level!

contingent decision making:
--------------------------
like:
in typical oop languages - you have to keep an extra variable as the "memory variable"
when you need to remember a value after changing it.
e.g
imagine this real life scenario.

student has a bag of sweets and is asked to come speak infront of the class.
students shorts has no pockets so he gives his sweets to his friend to hold for him
after making the speech he returns to his friend to collect his property.
(this is how most variables are)
but if students sweets is less than original quantity (he'll called friend a theif)
else he'll consider friend as honest.
its a bit contrived ,
but you get the point,he's referencing a past value to make decisions with.
in a variable that can remember its previous state, its going to be like the
student's short has pockets. when the student rises to go make the speech,
its as if the value of sweets in hand has been set to zero , cuz he's hidden the sweets,
after the speech,he goes back to retreive past value (by dipping hand in his pocket)
, he makes a contingent decision after retrieving past value (e.g if sweet less by any amount - then he checks if his pocket has a hole)!!
very artificial example , but , in real life contingent decisions based on past data
does have to be made.
and without smart variables , other variables have to be created.
anyway,point is, some variables are just used to mirror states that fold into one
variable eventually.

well, if it confuses you , just shrugg it off. its just a muse expressed.

this example is in java.

think of this this.
a language that the primitive data type can remember it's last
value!

what for ? i dont know.
but if language are to model real world data systems
- this is realistic.

e.g you can remember yesterday?! can't you- and in a programming language - you are a data type?

so here's the example:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
import java.util.Stack;
import java.util.Iterator;

public class Variable
{
private class type;
private Stack<Object> values;
private Object currentValue;
private static int max_memory=10;
public variable(final Object value)
{
this();
currentValue = value;
}

public variable(){
values = new Stack();
currentValue = null;
}


public void setValue(Object value)
{
if(currentValue!=null)
{
// push it on the stack
if(values.size()<max_memory)
{
values.push(currentValue);
max_memory++;
}
currentValue = value;
}
else
currentValue = value;

}
public Object getValue(){return currentValue;}

public Object previousValue()
{
if(values.isEmpty())return null;
return values.peek();
}

public Class currentType()
{
if(currentValue==null)return null;
return currentValue.getClass();
}

public Object[] previousValues()
{
if(values.isEmpty())return null;
return values.toArray();
}

public void clearMemory(){
values = new Stack();
}

}

---------------------------------------------------------------------
using the variable class.


Variable var = new variable();//null value
var.setValue(10);
var.setValue(20);
var.setValue(30);
var.getValue()->30;
var.setValue(var.previousValue());
---------------------------
what could such a 'smarter variable' be used for?!
don't know.
but it can-remember?! - all its settings -
--
typical variables have no idea of the last data they held?!

e.g

Type t = new Type;
[where t is say - a boolean,char,etc]
t = new Value ; e.g int x = 10;
x = 20;// oops !! x can't remember its previous value.

print x [prints current value only]
print x.previous-value [no such method exception!!!]

software wheels arent round
------------------------------
don't re-invent the wheel . that's what you'll hear when u start computer programming.
but the software industry keeps going against it's own preaching.why?

people are churning out new text editors every day.
what functionality does any one want in a text editor
that can't be found in text editor written decades ago!!

new programming languages are coming out like catarrh from a babies nose.
they just keep dropping. they're so many its impossible to even keep up.

what's essentially the difference btw c sharp and java!

it seems programmers will invent any wheel if just to give it
a name of their own liking.

like- sb doesnt like the name - javascript - so the go the whole
mile to re-invent it again and rename it - jscript!!


the only thing prohibiting cloning some other types of software is not
the lack of desire but the towering high realization cost.
else,
they'd be a different OS on every system.
they'd b thousands of web browsers each with new ways of doing old things.

and after each wheel is re-invented the inventor will try to split the faithfuls of the previous wheel to come join his sect and try to drive the other wheel out of existent by attacking it - on the new wheels wbesite -
and thru mulish loyalists.
man enough holy wars over wheels that are essentially the same.

in a way all these wheely and round trip investments are
a vicious cycle - cuz people roll with the one the like best-emotionally not logically.

they're c die hards in an age of oop. and lisp snobs who look down
on the rest of the world.
c++ wizards who cackle at the cryptic ness and multi facedness of
their language.
asm cave men.
vb purist. the list goes on.

the process keeps repeating itself - code alchemist continue to conjure in their basements -
trying to make the perfect software wheel.

by open source i mean open and free software.

1.) it made software available for nothing.
people think software shouldnt be paid for ,its so hard
for individual developers to compete with free-

2.) software developers have gained the scorn of other professionals who can't appreciate
what it takes to create simple software because
freer more complete version abound on the internet.

3.) open source has festered an entitlement mentallity.
software is the only product people expect to be
created and given away for FREE.
after air no product is free CLEAN AIR isnt free only
bad polluted air.

4.) open source has cost more jobs than outsourcing.
because you can't compete with free.
5.) open source has cost more lost revenue for companies.
because they have to sell for almost-free to compete
banking on mass sales to rake in revenue.
6.) A car manufacture can charge 6 figures for 1 car,
a house can sell for 7 figures
a lawyer can bill clients at $1,000 an hour
no software developer can bill so and stay in business.
a surgery can cost 6 figures and people expect
it to be expensive
but software costing above 100 dollars (3 figures)
and many hours or months of work
gets people looking at the seller like he's a thief!!
- thanks open source!!.

7.) free software shot itself in the foot -
its not really about money but perception.
By giving away so much value for $0 it has only
accumulated contempt from users - much like a woman
accumulates contempt for being an easy lay -
law , accounting, medicine big money professions
on the hand have accumulated respect and prestige
inspite of their atrocious fees.
thank you open source.

8.)
With a degree in computer science -
and your ability to code - you're regarded as an artisan.
people ask and wonder "will you still be programming/designing websites at age X?"
people dont ask will you still b practicing law,medicine,accounting at age X?
this shows how that programming is a field to get away from!
- its unprestigious and menial.
a situation worsened by free software.

still more on the missing aspects stuff. Nairaland developer team please look into this things to make nairaland more intuitive to use. .) reply at a particlar posters box . All replies for now are linear and occur at the bottom i.e they're queued reference to poster is done using an '@' . Problem is poster can not see replies made many many boxes down the queue! Replying to a particular poster years months weeks later is almost impossible or discouraging cuz at that time there may be a wedge of so many posts in btween. This kind of system is implemented on hackerNews .really convenient.

the age thing is archaic thinking in a lightening speed generation. Must FGC drag its archaism into something as innovative as software? Haba! Australean library software or so costing millions of dollars hacked by teenager, 17 year old writes innovative cancer detecting software with 97 percent or so (very high) success rate . Such minors will be in danger of being cheated in a contract , even if theyre not they dont need to share their shine with nobody! Please revise that age clause . It's so so narrow thinking in action.

@whiz tim without critics they'd be no improvement. A critic told the emperor with no clothes that he was naked everybody else was a-cheering. Will develop a large system in c ? Not likely i'd use the most convenient tool available. On the other hand it would be "insane myopic egotistic" to write a device driver in java instead of c! Even java's 3d drawing library was so poor that the author of the book fell short of apologising to the reader for it! Point: different tools for different jobs. However, in the area of general purpose languages java's size is an embarrasment. Because java (standard edition) is so Obese a user will still be learning about java for years. And what's worse - the company behind java keeps adding more and more classes to the language! This is a sign that something is wrong design wise. To mask this or because of this a certification structure is setup , certification wouldnt be a big deal if the language didnt have so many moving parts! Popularity doesnt testify to good design . Any marketing major will tell you that bad products can succeed with good marketing while many good products die out. Google "worst is better" it discusses this. A good tool lets you cut the chase and go straight to work through lots of short cuts. This is why software from the 70s like emacs and vim are still actively in use today. The praise of lisp comes from its macro system partly, so as you use lisp, emacs, or Mathematics (a language) or English you can say more with less. E.g Fyi, imho,wtf, are shortcuts increasing convenience . Java lacks this inbuilt shortcut structure, so at 100k lines of code you are still writing in long hand . Enter the ide to the rescue . Naturally languages like c, c++ dont are terse so you can type less but java is readable a good thing but a bad thing for the typist . Enter the ide to the rescue. With java you need an ide else you'll wear out your wrist and fingers from typing method names. Again, a fallout of poor design.

@javanian
i learnt java without an ide too-
but professional java development is monumental without an ide!- poor design.
professional c ,lisp can occur without an ide!.
ide is to contain the bloat (3,000+ classes with - triple the methods!!)
@kennyusa
i share your sentiments . i too cut my teeth on java!
i know why java is popular - may write on that soon -
it has a compelling side and is fast BUT
java is also a marketed product - with $Billion company backing-
any shoddy product with $Billion marketing is bound to get into every home!!
- fact is most newbies can't tell what a good or bad tool is ! they go with the trends
.
though java swears strictly to OOP dyu notice java wants you to program FUNCTIONALLY
sometimes!
SMART LANGUAGES have short cuts - to shorten the work load - java 7 is realizing
this and trying to bring in some shortcuts- they should have introduced
massive shortcuts and increased overall class size by as many thousands as they want,
so that the fast guys could b more productive but they wont.
they'r inbuild collection classes are so rudimentary that google has to write a whole
slew of faster smarter collection classes - c'mon, this is pathetic design for you.
Another sign of poor language design is - the amount of resources needed to use the language.
with java , latest java , you almost need gigahertz processors, gigabyte ram !!
with lua,c,lisp, u need less resources.
this is a sign of bloat!
c sharp guilty too.

a programmg language should b relatively easy to learn, mayb not so easy to master. The language shdnt b prescriptive , it should have long cuts to ease learning strain at d onset but it shd have short cuts lots of it to reduce redundancy in typing etc. The core language should b separated from the extensions built on the core. Nice2have shdnt b compulsory and may b xcluded from d core. Example of a nice language- the c language : core language has few keywords, its very hands free, easy to pick up, nice2havs are not made language standards, everything else comes in a library. C has survived this many many years because it's all core and lil fluff. Example of a bad design . Java. Yeah, popular all mighty java. To understand java's design issue think of this scenario: a person who was still growing, slim and lithe 9 years ago but now obese. This fellow drives around in a world class suv (IDE) everybody hails his ride, but at home , moving around in the house requires a Vehicle too! So fatso cant move from parlor to bedroom without support he is dependent on a vehicle (ide) and he cant function in a typical house where people dart from parlor to loo to take a piss because he's so damn heavy. Any joe learng java has to accomodate an ide, java is so so obese. In trying to be all things it put on to much weight. More nimble languages always begin their market pitch by pointing out how much lighter they are than java. Ok lets ignore syntax verboseness, java is still obese. Java attacked the complexity inherent in modern software creation by providing so many classes and base libraries in addition to a language core and new versions keep swelling the add ons combine that with readable method and class names and u'd b incapable of doing anything with the language without serious help- an ide.help so serious the ides require software giants to build them. Java's handicap is serious. C sharp suffers the same bloat too. And they ve got billion dollar companies evangelizing them . Now any1 new to programming thinks an ide part of the language core.