Hebrews 1:8-10
"But unto the Son he sayeth, Thy throne, O G-d, is for ever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore G-d, even thy G-d, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And thou, L-rd, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the work of thy hands" (KJV).

As the KJV and the RSV read, this certainly indicates the Son (Yahshua) is the Creator of heaven and earth, which means he not only existed at the time of creation, but was also Deity. Once again, however, the translators evidently did not grasp the true message because they were sold on the doctrine of the Trinity. This translation will not stand the test of other Scriptures. The Moffatt Translation reads as follows:

"He [Yahweh, verse 5] says of the Son, 'G-d [the Father, Yahweh] is thy throne for ever and ever, thy royal septre is the septre of equity: thou [the Son] hast loved justice and hated lawlessness, therefore G-d, the G-d, has consecrated thee with the oil of rejoicing beyond thy comrades' - and, 'Thou [Yahweh] didst found the earth at the beginning, O L-rd [Yahweh], and the heavens are the work of thy hands; ...'" (Heb. 1:8-10, Moffatt).

Two quotations from the Psalms are included in these verses.

"Your divine throne endures for ever and ever. You royal sceptre is a sceptre of equity; you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore G-d, your G-d has anointed you with the oil of gladness above thy fellows; ..." (Ps. 45:6,7 RSV). It is interesting to read the footnote in the RSV: "Your throne is a throne of God, ..." (verse 6). Now for the other quotation.

"Of Old thou (Yahweh, Verses 1, 12, 18] didst lay the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of they hands. They [the heavens and the earth] will perish, but thou dost endure; they will all wear out like a garment. Thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away; but thou [Yahweh] art the same, and thy years have no end" (Ps. 102:25-27 RSV).

As indicated above [with brackets], these verses speak of Yahweh as Creator - not Yahshua. Yahshua's years did, indeed, come to an end. Not so those of the Father, Yahweh. His years never end. He lives forever; past; present, and future. Usually overlooked are the following points:

Hebrews Chapter Two

o The writer of the letter of Hebrews was not only concerned about the creation of the past. He also spoke "of the world to come" - the inheritance of the Saints which is yet future (Heb. 2:5).

o Man (mankind) was for a little while made a little lower than the angels [Heb. 2:6,7; Ps. 8:4-8]. Yahshua too (the same as other men, was for a little while made lower than the angels (Heb. 2:9).

o Everything was originally put in subjection to mankind except the plan of salvation, which was only later developed through Yahshua, the Messiah (Heb. 2:8,9).

o Yahshua "tasted death" for everyone, thus witnessing the grace of Yahweh toward all men (Heb. 2:9).

o "For it was fitting that he [Yahweh], for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make [Yahshua] the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he [Yahshua] who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all ONE ORIGIN. That is why he [Yahshua] is not ashamed to call them brethern, saying, I will proclaim thy name [Yahweh's name] to my brethern, in the midst of the congregation I will praise thee" (Heb. 2:10-12; Ps. 22:22 RSV).

Do I detect here a statement showing that Yahshua had the same origin as other men? I believe so. About half of the English versions read this way. The word "origin" is not in the Greek, but is implied evidently. This agrees with other statements made in the verses below.

o The children (mankind) share in flesh and blood. Yahshua is likewise of the same nature. This was so he could free his brethern who through fear of death were (are) in lifelong bondage (Heb. 2:14,15).

o It is not with angels that Yahweh is concerned, but with the descendants of Abraham, therefore he (Yahshua) had to be made like his brethern IN EVERY RESPECT, so that he might become a merciful high priest (Heb. 2:16,17). Another Scripture speaking of Yahshua, reveals that the spiritual body does not come first (as in a pre-existence). No. The PHYSICAL body comes FIRST, and only later comes the SPIRITUAL body (1 Cor. 15:45,46).

o He was tempted in everything as we are (Heb. 2:18). If Yahshua had been Deity while on earth, he would have had no temptations.

Yahshua was even more faithful in Yahweh's house than Moses was. Every house has a builder. The builder of all things is Yahweh (Heb.3:1-6). To understand all of the book of Hebrews requires careful study.

The one who wrote it admits it is difficult to understand (Heb. 5:11).

Did Yahshua Pre-exist As An Angel?

"For to what angel did Yahweh say, 'Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee?'" (Heb. 1:5).

The answer is obvious, never at any time, has Yahweh ever said to an angel, "You are my son." This is emphatically stated, not only here, but in verse 13 as well, "But to what angel has He [Yahweh] ever said, 'Sit at my righthand till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet?'"

"For Yahweh never said to an angel, Thou art my Son; today I have begotten thee, ..." (Heb. 1:5, New English Bible).


SOURCE: http://frank4yahweh.tigblog.org/post/9606973

hisblud: Hi mr frank... read this my post and answer your question



can you reread this against your bolded

franky Again read what i said



Ok but you have not shown me the original translation? that your so-called scholars have used to conclude that in the context of ps45.6 should be "Judge" being referred to!



repeat what? That Elohim can occasionally mean Judge, Angel or god? And i have humbly asked you, can you give us the hebrew rendering for Judge, Angel or god?



Hmm! you want to now claim that am the one that is saying that Elohim means "Judge"? lets see who is deceptive here




Sorry mate you just shot yourself on the foot. By the above statement you are finally conceding that your scholars whom you agree with are vainly wrong in context to improperly use "Judge" in ps45.6. Therefore you have agreed that you cannot replace in the context of ps45.6, the word Elohim with another word like "Judge".

Here is your statement and one of your scholars whom you agree with initially but now you are conceding that he and all those that agree that its "Judge" and not "Elohim" as been [size=18pt]WRONG[/size].

hisbludy,

And as I have told you ... Do I really need to repeat myself time and time again?

hisblud: ^^ boy what a long talk i simply posted in response to your so called biblical scholars...whom you agree with... Simples ...

Well, do you believe that I deny these scholars or do you believe that I agree with them? Make up your mind!

benalvino:

its funny how he talks like he knows the bible...

It's funny how many think that we are to get our reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness from the words of Kenneth Haggin's book when we are to get this from Scripture (Father Yahweh's inspired prophteic word):

All Scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Yahweh may be perfect, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all righteous works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Well, it seems that we do not need Kenneth Hagins words in a book at all, since we are "THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all righteous works." with Scripture (Father Yahweh's inspired prophteic word). Another problem would be that Scripture never teaches that we are to commune ["pray"] to Father Yahweh in "unknown" tongues which those whose proclaim this false, deceptive and demonic doctrine are only speaking gibberish and acting a fool:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyACodY0hek

We certainly do not need the uninspired (Certainly not inspired by Father Yahweh anyway) deceptive and demonic words of Kenneth Hagin added to Father Yahweh's righteous inspired prphetic word!

Joagbaje:

Does God need interpretation? Ask yourself. It's men that needs interpretation, that means speaking to God is different from speaking to men. There difference between praying to God in the spirit NDU talking to men in the spirit. If I have more time I will give you more illustrations scripturally.

I also speak in a tongue when I communicate with our Heavenly Father and Creator, and that language is English and I do not believe He needs an interpreter and I never said that He did. Nowhere in Scripture am I ever asked to speak gibberish to our Heavenly Father and Creator in communication to Him. When Yahshua's students asked him to show them how to pray as he did to our Heavenly Father and Creator, he did not instruct them to speak gibberish or to speak to Him in an unknown or another language that they did not understand. YOUR so-called speaking in "unknown" tongues is nothing but a prayer show which the Messiah instructed against doing.

If you have the time? Take all the time you need, but the truth is, you can not and have yet to give one illustration SCRIPTURALLY of speaking gibberish to our Heavenly Father and Creator or where we are instructed to do so.

Joagbaje:

There are different kinds of praying in the spirit . Known tongues and the unknown tongues. It may sound gibberish to the uninformed but in the realm of the spirit it's the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

That is just plain foolish! There is no such thing as an "UNKNOWN language." Such a word phrase is an oxymoron. A language would only be unknown to the one who does not understand or speak said language. Shaul clearly instructed that one who speaks in tongues that such a one must be followed by one to interpret said language. Nowhere in Scripture does it ever teach "There are different kinds of praying in the spirit . Known tongues and the unknown tongues.

In the torah it is written, With men of other languages and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear Me, says Yahweh (1 Corinthians 4:21).

It is clear from the above verse that the languages that Shaul was speaking of in the context of the translations his writing as being "unknown" were actual languages spoken by men. One can only concluded that the the word "unknown" that was added by the translators was in reference to languages that one did not understand that were spoken by others.

"The Greek word for 'tongue' is glossa. This word is defined by Thayer's Greek Lexicon as: a tongue, i.e. the language used by a particular people in distinction from that of other nations: Acts 2:11. Throughout the New Testament the word tongue is clearly a language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations. The concept that a tongue is a language unknown to mankind may come in part because of the way the King James Version translates certain passages. The King James Version added the word unknown before the word tongue in their translation. The word unknown is never found before the word tongue in any of the original manuscripts. Understand that the translators of King James Version never intended to show or imply that it was a part of the original writing of Paul. They KJV translators often inserted a word that they felt would help the reader understand what the original text was saying. Because of the great task of translating one language to another (as here they were translating Greek into English) sometimes it is necessary to do this. But when they did it, they put the inserted word in italics. So it says in the text of the KJV, “…unknown tongues…” This lets the reader know that the word unknown is not part of the original manuscripts. And in this case, this probably causes a lot of confusion. If the word “unknown” was used to say that a tongue was a real human language unknown to the person speaking the tongue, then this is a valid insertion of the word. But if we take the word “unknown” to mean a language unknown to mankind, such as an angelic langauge, then this word is wrong. The best thing to do here is read the Bible as written in the original manuscripts and interpreted properly by most modern versions, which did not insert the word 'unknown'.

One of the best examples of the definition of a toungue is found in Acts 2 where the apostles began to speak in languages that they were not able to speak before. We see here that the apostles spoke specific languages that already existed. Speaking in tongues was nothing more than the supernatural ability to speak in a real human language.

Acts 2:6-12 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" NIV

Notice here that these apostles were speaking in known languages and those that heard them speak in tongues heard them speaking in their own language. So we can read clearly that this gift of tongues was not some unknown language. In fact the Bible lists the specific native languages that were spoken."

Excerpt from: http://blog.guidedbytruth.com/unknowntongues.php

Ken4Christ: The truth is that if you do not believe in speaking in tongues and you profess to be a believer, something is wrong with your belief for the following reasons,

1. The subject was first introduced by our Lord Jesus himself and he said speaking in tongues is one of the signs that should follow those who believe. "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17). So if you are a believer and the sign of speaking in tongues is not following, you are invariably saying that you are not a believer. Put in another way, you are an unbelieving believer.

2. The early disciples spoke in tongues. "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4)

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter." (Acts 10:44-46)

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." (Acts 19:1-6)

3. Apostle Paul admonished the Church not to forbid speaking in tongues. "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." (1 Corinthians 14:39)


There are many more reasons but I think these are enough to convince any skeptics that speaking in tongues is scriptural.

It was the one of the secrets of Apostle Paul's success in ministry - "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all. (1 Corinthians 14:18)


A young Christian convert argued with me on this subject just a few days ago insisting that it sounds foolish for her to speak what she does not understand. After convincing her it was biblical, she agreed she was ready to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. As soon as I laid hands on her, she spoke in tongues and she confirmed it was a wonderful experience.

It is better experienced than explained. It is the best way to refresh your spirit and activate the power of God.

It is an experience that follows the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you profess to be born again and not yet baptized by the Holy Spirit, your salvation is not sealed. It is the Holy Spirit baptism that seals your salvation. He is the stamp of ownership upon your life. "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" (Ephesians 1:13)

Remember that the voice of God that spoke from heaven when Jesus was baptized by John the baptist only came after the Spirit of God descended on Jesus. It was for this same reason that the disciples were told not to go anywhere until they receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

There is no way you can serve God effectively and fervently without the Holy Spirit. Apostle Paul was bold when he said, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9)

There are over 20 benefits you get from speaking in tongues which time will not permit me to enumerate in this post. IF you care to know, send your e-mail address to my mail box at the end of this post and I will deliver it to your mail box.

I am having great fun speaking in tongues. It is the key to the supernatural. It is the most precious gift God has made available to his children. Jesus calls it a good gift - "If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? {offer: Gr. give} If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:11-13)

Apostle Peter said that the gift is available to everyone that wants to receive - "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:38-39)

Everything in life has it's use and abuse. The fact that a few folks abuse the gift of tongues should not discourage you from receiving it. The Corinthian church were not using it the right way hence Paul wrote them to instruct them on how the gift is to be used. He however concluded they should not forbid or stop to speak in tongues but should be done in the manner prescribed by him.

Do you ask for the recipe of every food you eat before you eat? You do not have to know what you speak in tongues for you to receive the gift. The way it works is this. If I am praying for financial favour and I have exhausted all my vocabulary on the subject during prayer, I just switch to speaking in tongues. I may not know what I am saying at that moment but I do know that the Holy Spirit is helping me to intercede on the matter as I pray in other tongues. That way, the answer comes faster. That is what Paul meant in Romans 8:26, "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

God bless you all and grant you understanding on this and other subject.

k_macaulay@yahoo.com

It is not that pepole here do not believe that they spoke in tongues as recorded in Acts, but that the speaking in "unknown" tongues that goes on in this time period among the so-called "churches" are nothing but gibberish and not languages at all.

Check out this other thread on this forum where they are trying to say this little 2 year old girl is speaking in tongues when the only language that she is actually speaking is English and a bunch of gibberish along with it:

https://www.nairaland.com/667143/2-year-old-christ-embassy/2

Following is the silly video that they are referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hc03Ii7JS0

As you will note in this video it will advertise the URL pastorsexwife.org. Visiting this site proves that this video is not promoted by someone or an organization that is of the spirit of Yahowah. You will also note in this video that this little girl actually says the following:

"And I am like Pastor Chris! ... Pastor Chris, God ..."

Again, this proves that this video is not promoted by someone or an organization that is of the spirit of Yahowah.

Following is the silly video that they are referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hc03Ii7JS0

As you will note in this video it will advertise the URL pastorsexwife.org. Visiting this site proves that this video is not promoted by someone or an organization that is of the spirit of Yahowah. You will also note in this video that this little girl actually says the following:

"And I am like Pastor Chris! ... Pastor Chris, God ..."

Again, this proves that this video is not promoted by someone or an organization that is of the spirit of Yahowah.

Check out this other thread on this forum where they are trying to say this little 2 year old girl is speaking in tongues when the only language that she is actually speaking is English and a bunch of gibberish along with it:

https://www.nairaland.com/667143/2-year-old-christ-embassy/2

If this is the girl that you are speaking of, the only language ["tongue"] she is speaking is English along with a bunch of gibberish that is not any language ["tongue"] at all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hc03Ii7JS0

As you will note in this video it will advertise the URL pastorsexwife.org. Visiting this site proves that this video is not promoted by someone or an organization that is of the spirit of Yahowah. You will also note in this video that this little girl actually says the following:

"And I am like Pastor Chris! ... Pastor Chris, God ..."

Again, this proves that this video is not promoted by someone or an organization that is of the spirit of Yahowah.

hisblud:

can you reread this against your bolded

franky Again read what i said



Ok but you have not shown me the original translation? that your so-called scholars have used to conclude that in the context of ps45.6 should be "Judge" being referred to!



repeat what? That Elohim can occasionally mean Judge, Angel or god? And i have humbly asked you, can you give us the hebrew rendering for Judge, Angel or god?



Hmm! you want to now claim that am the one that is saying that Elohim means "Judge"? lets see who is deceptive here




Sorry mate you just shot yourself on the foot. By the above statement you are finally conceding that your scholars whom you agree with are vainly wrong in context to improperly use "Judge" in ps45.6. Therefore you have agreed that you cannot replace in the context of ps45.6, the word Elohim with another word like "Judge".

Here is your statement and one of your scholars whom you agree with initially but now you are conceding that he and all those that agree that its "Judge" and not "Elohim" as been [size=18pt]WRONG[/size].

I am not rehashing something that has alraedy been spoken of. If you want to rehash, go back and reread my responces to your foolishness in attempting to prove by twisting a few verses of Scripture YOUR false "Jesus IS God!" doctrine when there is an abundance of verses and passages in the context of Scripture as a whole that clearly proves without a doubt that the Messiah is not our Heavenly Father and Creator. Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh ["God"]. This is what Scripture clearly teaches and ask me to confess and believe. Nowhere in Scripture will you ever find it said that Yahshua is "God." You will also never find Yahshua recorded in the so-called "New Testament" as proclaiming "I am God!"

benalvino:

and paul said it https://www.nairaland.com/1423311/genuin-gift-tongue/1#17871405

Shaul said plenty of things, since his writings take up most of the so-called "New Testament", but he certainly did not teach that believers SHOULD speak in "UNKNOWN" tongues! In fact, nowhere in Scripture as a whole does it evr teach such foolishness!

Bidam: You are a shame to the Jesus you profess to serve(If at all He is the real Jesus).You can quote a wiki that is always edited by any tom,di.cki or harry for all i care.So far as it is in my bible i believe it.Anytime you see that scripture,read it with the eyes of your understanding like this

MARK 16:15-18
15 .. (.Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be
damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils
[ exercise authority over demons and evil spirits in His name]; they shall speak with
new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents [meaning believers won't be harmed if they do so
accidentally, as Paul did on the island of Melital; and if they drink any deadly thing
[accidentally], it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall
recover.

You are the one who should be ashamed of themselves for pushing a "speaking in "UNKNOWN" tongues doctrine that is not even taught in Scripture from where we are to get our doctrine for reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness. You are a shame to the Messiah and to his our our Heavenly Father and Creator that I serve! And like I said, if you really believe what you say is true concerning your belief that believers SHOULD speak in "UNKNOWN" tongues, then you SHOULD also push the doctrine believers SHOULD handle snakes and drink poison.

The ending of Yahchanan Mark 16 is one is just one of the additions to Scripture that are well known. I just used the Wiki source, since it says the same as all other sources on this subject. A simple search on the internet well give you these others sources. There are also other sources that you will find that attempt to support the ending of Yahchanan Mark 16 to no avail in my honest opinion.

Mark 16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16

Bidam: You are missing the point of that scripture. Paul quoted Isaiah 28:11,12 prophecy that was fulfilled in Acts 2:12-13 concerning the Jews who heard the Apostles magnifying God in other languages but instead of believing them,they mocked them that they were drunk at 9 a.m in the morning."That was the sign to the unbelieving Jews".

It was peter's message that really got them converted.Selah#

I am not denying that they spoke in diverse languages, what it is that I am denying is your teaching of "UNKNOWN" tongues as if the languages that they were speaking could not be interpreted by ANYONE to get the prophetic message that was proclaimed. These languages were actual languages spoken by the people of this world at that time. They were only understood by the people who spoke these languages and in turn you have an interpreter. They were only "UNKNOWN" languges ["tongues"] to the people who did not speak these languages.

Gombs:

I speak in tongues daily for no less than 20mins

You shd try it...ask The Holy spirit to give you utterance

Are you a Believer of Jesus' Teachings/Gospel?

If yes, What do you understand by what Jesus said in Mark 16v17-18 MSG

17-18 “These are some of the signs that will accompany believers: They will throw out demons in my name, they will speak in new tongues, they will take snakes in their hands, they will drink poison and not be hurt, they will lay hands on the sick and make them well.”

Hey! How about this for the title of the thread then?:

'Why Believers Should Handle Snakes and Drink Poison'

Mark 16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16

Gombs: Yawns...another (Community of Yahweh church) Cele church member, pls I cnt strt all over again

*unfollows thread

WAKE UP! No, not a "Community of Yahweh church) Cele church member"! Unfollow? GREAT!

Remember, I do not believe that Yahshua pre-existed his birth and that he was born of a virgin, so you are not going to find me being a member of any so-called "church."

Kenny4lyfe:

Matthew 16:4
"A wicked and adulterous {idol/instinct worshipping} generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas" - Jesus Christ

These guys wount believe something unless it agrees with their instinct!

Did I just saw you tryinna quote me?
So, sorry ehn... I wount reply!

Tongues, then, ARE A SIGN, not for believers but FOR UNBELIEVERS; prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers (1 Corinthians 14:22).

Then I should not seek to speak in tongues, since they ARE A SIGN, right?

Surely there is no contradiction between what you say and what Scripturte says!

Bidam: Maybe you should tell him to try it for 5min.

You wan kill am for 20min?

They should not have suggested that I try such foolisness at all!

Gombs:

I speak in tongues daily for no less than 20mins

You shd try it...ask The Holy spirit to give you utterance

Are you a Believer of Jesus' Teachings/Gospel?

If yes, What do you understand by what Jesus said in Mark 16v17-18 MSG

17-18 “These are some of the signs that will accompany believers: They will throw out demons in my name, they will speak in new tongues, they will take snakes in their hands, they will drink poison and not be hurt, they will lay hands on the sick and make them well.”

Yeah! And I heal lepers daily for no less than 20mins! And the evidence that you speak in tongues for the unbeliever? You have none!

I have no need for such foolishness!

As for "Mark 16v17-18 MSG", these verses have been added to complete what was believed to be an incomplete manuscript.

Mark 16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_16

Bidam: Even after i told these guys that i had this experience they would Not believe.Jesus told the pharisees that if you do not believe my words that i came from the father at least believe the miracles na! May God deliver folks from every satanic blindfoldness in the Body of Christ.

How are we to believe you and be a witness to what you are saying when you have yet to present any evidence? You are the one who has us wearing blindfolds!

Bidam: I have read so many errors in that your copy and paste article,but if you are ready to discuss it strictly from the bible(not the article) and bible only as the infallible words of God, not some mumbo jumbo of men philosophical views and traditions,then i am game.

Speaking in togues is "mumbo jumbo"!

Gombs:

I know, thats y I hardly post a reply repeating what av already said. Most folks here are ever learning but never coming to the knowlege of the truth (2Tim 3v7). I must commend Bidam for his continous response to redundant questions, because it's a gift/ministry on him.

1corithians 12: 7-11

7 The Holy Spirit is given to each of us in a special way. That is for the good of all. [b] 8 To some people the Spirit gives the message of wisdom. To others the same Spirit gives the message of knowledge. [/b ]  9 To others the same Spirit gives faith. To others that one Spirit gives gifts of healing. 10 To others he gives the power to do miracles. To others he gives the ability to prophesy. To others he gives the ability to tell the spirits apart. To others he gives the ability to speak in different kinds of languages they had not known before. And to still others he gives the ability to explain what was said in those languages.11 All of the gifts are produced by one and the same Spirit. He gives them to each person, just as he decides.

If he can keep saying same thing over again, it is his grace working, I cant keep doing that dont mean am weary. Jesus' case was different because the Bible said they asked to test him and not to learn, and of course it wasnt believers in his gospel that asked such. With Bidam, he is asked by fellow christians who wanna of course know y he has those views, not to test him (They tested Jesus to see whether they could accuse him.)

I admire his persistence for the gospel of Christ, he cant force it on them, but then the Holyspirit is there to help those who truly wanna learn, and convicts those who dont want to, either way, it's a plus to him.

Cheers

So, do you believe that believers should speak in tongues? If not, then I can not see how you can admire Bidam's persistence, since this is what he is teaching. Also, I have yet to see him post anything concerning the glad tidings ["gospel"] of Father Yahweh's Kingdom. His professing to speak in tongues is obviously a lie and this I can not admire. Now he has taken this doctrine of speaking in tongues even futher and is erroneously teaching one "should pray in an UNKNOWN tongue." There is no such thing as an "UNKNOWN" language. The language has to be known to the one who is to interpret it.

Bidam: Can you provide scriptural reference,these is how false teachers abound in nairaland.Scriptures pls,not your sentiments here.Do you even know the Jesus we are talking about,talk much more of serving Him?
I am not affiliated to any cult groups or organizations.Are you?
Rubbish!! these are your opinions.you are even derailing the thread by talking about tithes and musical instruments here.YOU HAVE BROKEN RULE 1
This is derailment!!!!!!
Thanks and no thanks.Guess you are new here,stick to the discussion of the thread or else you will be BANNED,you've broken the rules already.

One would have to obey Father Yahweh's instruction [torah "law"] to receive His set apart ["holy"] spirit, right? Seems to me that it does have something to do with the topic at hand, since we are to identify the true children of Yahweh by their fruits.

hisblud:

But you have convinced yourself to confusion by denying your biblical scholars outrightly... oh do you disagree?

Believing and confessing that Yahshua is the Messiah the SON of the living Yahweh is far from being confused. There is no room for confusion is such simplistic Scriptural doctrine. Oh, and BTW, I don't have any "biblical scholars" of my own that I deny!

Bidam: The Holy Spirit does not come automatically when a person believes but Jesus says everyone who asks receives (Luke11:9-13)

Actually, Father Yahweh's spirit comes before a person believes the truth! Those who received Father Yahweh's set apart spirit then did not all speak in tongues or other languages. For one to believe the truth, they most certainly did receive Father Yahweh's set apart spirit, since it is Father Yahweh's word that draws them and His word most certainly is spiritual. Father Yahweh's word is the sword of the spirit. This is an integral part of the armour that we are to put on to fight off the wiles of the devil. The weapon of choice, in other words. The only actual weapon, in fact. It is Father Yahweh's inspired prophetic word that edifies Father Yahweh's children, not some so-called "unknown language" that they do not understand and that can not be interpreted by them.

lahchi:

From 1 Corinthians 14, was the same paul taking about an unknown language here? "1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature. 21 In the law it is written: “With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,” says the Lord. 22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. 25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you." Remember Paul still said in the same 14 that it must be interpreted. "1 Corinthians 14:13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in "a" tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the "uninformed" say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? 17 For you indeed give thanks well, "but the other is not edified". 18 I thank my God I speak with "tongues" more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak "five words" with "my understanding", that I may "teach others also", than ten thousand words in "a" tongue." Every word used in the Bible has its reason for being used, do not neglect it.

Just to make it clear, I do not believe in the "unknown" tongues doctrine. I believe it to be false and deceptive. The word "unknown" was added by the translator's and this word is not conveyed in the original text. These tongues or languages were only unknown to those who did not understand. An interpreter would most certainly understand and these tongues would not be "unknown" to an interpreter.

topstar80,

These people are simply deceptively encouraging you to speak in "UNKNOWN" languages (tongues). They are also deceptively flat out telling you that if you do not speak in these "UNKNOWN" languages (tongues) as they do that you are not a true believer and that you lack the spirit of THEIR "God."

Sounds like a satanic ploy to belittle one who is truly seeking to believe the true Almighty One to me!

lahchi: I don't seem to understand or see the difficulty of understanding the book of Acts or was this portion of the Bible turn out of their Bible?
"Act 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them (this meant the tongues were different). 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." The people who heard them made it very clear that it was their language, their language they were born into. "Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”" The bible says "he who has ears let him hear." I am a member of the Church of Christ and am sending my greeting(Romans 16:16) to those who are ready to take the 5 steps (Hear, Believ, Repent, Confess and be Baptised) of salvation and added to the church by the Lord (Acts 2:47).

I believe they propose that the tongues that they speak are different than the tongues mentioned here in this Acts passage. They will use the following verses to propose their belief. They believe these to be "unknown" tongues and "heavenly tongues" or "prayer tongues" in communication with THEIR "God" which are not interpreted, since "no one understands them":

For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit (1 Corinthians 14:2).

Then they will use verse 14 to propose that these tongues were different in that they were not used to edify the assembly, but for the edification of themselves personally:

Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church (1 Corinthians 14:4).

Kenny4lyfe:

1. i love it nd try to work by GOD's commands buh,it isnt coming

Beloved, if you really love {i.e desire} to speak in tongues then, there's no need to "try to work by God's command" {I don't know the commands you're refering to except that the only condition that qualifies you for the in-filling of the Holy Spirit is being born again. I'll say it's not a command per-say, it's a choice.} So, you decide. Do you want to speak in tongues or not?!

2. sometimes i feel holy nd sometimes i feel like d worst man on earth

That's the work of the devil! You ought to declare your righteousness in Christ Jesus imediately such feelings arises. Those feelings are not from your spirit, the devil is using your five sences to play games on you!
1. Resist the devil and he'll flee from you James 4:7
2. Bring your sences under total subjection to God's will for you. Read Hebrews 5:14.

3. each tym derz an opprotunity to receive d spirit wch av longd for,my heart just get easily diversed.

This means you've got work to do. Whenever you find yourself in that atmosphere where the gift will be kick-started then rid yourself of all form of distraction! You can declare words like "In the name of Jesus, I refused to be distracted at this moment. Lord I cast all my cares upon you at this moment!".
Know this: The devil is not always comfortable whenever he knows you're about to break free from him. That's when he'll give it his best shot to keep you dormant. That's when he'll remind you of those unsettled rent bills, school fees, that birthday gift you promised a friend and so on and so forth! All you've got to do is resist him James 4:7! He's a dog, he'll flee with his tail between his legs!

You can as well create that atmosphere wherever you are. All you gotta do is get yourself alone and switch on an atmosphere of praise, an atmosphere of worship; God inhabits such atmosphere, Psalm 22:3. Let it go on and on and God is ever faithful to His promise {Joel 2:28-29, Acts 2:17-18} which He has promised!
God bless you!

NOTE: If you have any Arguement(s) conserning this post, don't quote me 'cus I will not reply YOU!

Resist the deceptive and demonic teaching of speaking in "unknown" tongues topstar80! "Unknown languages"? Most definately an oxymoron!

Bidam:
satan is jealous and angry about what he doesn't understand so he uses willing vessels to achieve his aim as you can see here

Yes, we can see it quite clear in your posts!

topstar80: How can i be endowed wid d speaking......i love it nd try to work by GOD's commands buh,it isnt coming......sometimes i feel holy nd sometimes i feel like d worst man on earth......i dont knw w@s happening to me.......each tym derz an opprotunity to receive d spirit wch av longd for,my heart just get easily diversed.........

What is it that you are saying that you love? It sounds like you are saying that you love trying to speak in tongues and that it does not happen? Those who spoke back then in diverse languages were not trying to speak in tongues! Father Yahweh simply gave them utterance or in other words, simply caused them to speak in diverse languages. One does not attempt to receive a gift. It is simply given to them. Don't believe what Bidham is teaching here about speaking in "unknown" tongues. The "unknown" tongues he professes to speak is nothing but a farse. He does not speak in tongues at all. He is just attempting to make you feel that he is more spiritual than you. Speaking in a so-called "unknown" tongues is not evidence of having Father Yahweh's spirit! Scripture does not even teach such foolishness as speaking in "unknown" tongues! Evidence of having Father Yahweh spirit is in fact taking His instructional word to heart by doing His will, since the sword of the spirit is His word. This is the most integral part of the armour that we must put on to fight off the wiles of the devil. This is why it is said that you will know the children of Yahweh by their fruit that they bear. The righteous acts that they perform in obedience to Father Yahweh's word. This is the true evidence that one is a child of Father Yahweh and that they have received His spirit, not speaking in so-called "unknown" tongues.

For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yahweh, you may receive what was promised. But THE RIGHTEOUS will live by faith. If he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him (Hebrews 10:36-37).

Job and Yahshua the Messiah were both righteous suffering servants of Father Yahweh.

In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job [Afflicted or Attacked]. This man was blameless and upright; he feared Yahweh and shunned evil (Job 1:1).

This is why "it was credited to him [Moshe] as righteousness" (Romans 4:22).

All Scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Yahweh may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all righteous works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Come now, and let us reason together, says Yahweh: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be [white] as wool. IF you are willing and obedient, you shall eat of the righteousness of the land: But if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it (Isayah 1:18-20).

When one is washed clean of past sins by way of Yahshua's sacrifice, and by their turning in obedince to Father Yahweh's instruction [torah, "law"], they in turn are without sin. This is a great position to be in! One must heed the following warning if they choose to turn back to sin [being disobedient to Father Yahweh - 1 Yahchanan [John 3:4)]:

For if we sin [disobey Father Yahweh's instruction {torah, "law"}] WILFULLY after we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the ADVERSARIES (Hebrews 10:26-27).

When one disobeys Father Yahweh's instruction [sins] after receiving the knowledge of the truth they are placed in the same position that Satan the ADVERSARY is placed in "because he knows that his time is short” (Revelation 12:12) and he has sinned from the very beginning.

He that commits sin IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the son of Yahweh was made known, that he might destroy the works of the devil {1 Yahchanan [John] 3:8}.

If one turns back to being in disobedience to Father Yahweh's instruction [torah, "law"], they in turn are letting Satan again take control of their lives by giving into the temptation of sin and they will be destroyed by fire with Satan.

Bidam: No one is righteous before God.

Poppycock!

For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yahweh, you may receive what was promised. But THE RIGHTEOUS will live by faith. If he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him (Hebrews 10:36-37).

Job and Yahshua the Messiah were both righteous suffering servants of Father Yahweh.

In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job [Afflicted or Attacked]. This man was blameless and upright; he feared Yahweh and shunned evil (Job 1:1).

This is why "it was credited to him [Moshe] as righteousness" (Romans 4:22).

All Scripture is given by inspiration of Yahweh, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Yahweh may be perfect, THROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all righteous works (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Come now, and let us reason together, says Yahweh: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be [white] as wool. IF you are willing and obedient, you shall eat of the righteousness of the land: But if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it (Isayah 1:18-20).

When one is washed clean of past sins by way of Yahshua's sacrifice, and by their turning in obedince to Father Yahweh's instruction [torah, "law"], they in turn are without sin. This is a great position to be in! One must heed the following warning if they choose to turn back to sin [being disobedient to Father Yahweh - 1 Yahchanan [John 3:4)]:

For if we sin [disobey Father Yahweh's instruction {torah, "law"}] WILFULLY after we have received the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SIN, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the ADVERSARIES (Hebrews 10:26-27).

When one disobeys Father Yahweh's instruction [sins] after receiving the knowledge of the truth they are placed in the same position that Satan the ADVERSARY is placed in "because he knows that his time is short” (Revelation 12:12) and he has sinned from the very beginning.

He that commits sin IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the son of Yahweh was made known, that he might destroy the works of the devil {1 Yahchanan [John] 3:8}.

If one turns back to being in disobedience to Father Yahweh's instruction [torah, "law"], they in turn are letting Satan again take control of their lives by giving into the temptation of sin and they will be destroyed by fire with Satan.