ubunja:
to be honest I don't follow

You say that dragon exist(ed),I say I do not believe that dragons exist(ed) because there is no evidence,that is the proof for my stance that dragons do not exist,NO EVIDENCE

Originakalokalo:
Look at what God told Israel about Blood..

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's soul.

Leviticus 17: 11.

The life of a creature is in the blood. God instructed them never to eat blood.

God almighty gave Israel the instructions to use the Blood of animals for atonement of their sins...

The sinner must put his hands on the animal and confess his sins. The animal thus takes the guilt of the sinner.....

The Blood of the animal is thus used to atone for the sin committed.

Jesus told the Pharisee...he said... "You will die in your sins if you don't believe in me "

What does this imply?

In the old testament, the sinner places his hand on the animal and confess his sins.

In this dispensation, you must believe that Jesus took your place on the cross and confess it.

It is the same isn't it?

Without the Blood of Jesus, no sin of man is henceforth forgiven.

Christians are in billions. All of us cannot be going to Jerusalem everyday whenever we sin.... How many animals will be required?

How many priests will do the sacrifice? Can the whole Jerusalem contain us all?

God, therefore, had the salvation of mankind in mind (not only of Israel) when he gave us a blameless, adequate and UNIVERSAL SACRIFICE that is done ONCE AND FOR ALL.

My brother and sister, if you don't believe in Jesus, be prepared to face the almighty in your sins.

ALL YOUR SINS ARE ON YOU. THEY ARE NOT FORGIVEN. Jesus told the Pharisee this.

Are u kidding me @bolded
A 21st century man with all the technology and information at his disposal still adopts an iron age philosophy even in the presence of scientific proof


Spits !!
Tueh !!

ubunja:
dude He is the one who came and said THERE IS NO GOD first. He made the claim. He must prove it

The proof is simple,there is no evidence that God(your own description) exists,hence your God doesn't exist
If you could provide evidence to proof that God exists then we would change our stance

MuttleyLaff:
Your body is an earth suit, when you snuff it, the spirit returns back to its Owner but your soul goes to rest and a waiting place pending the day of judgment when you will give account for every careless word spoken, you'll have to explain the reason(s) for your every word, thought and deed. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned, on that day.

How did you get to know all these ?

Mobilia:


You do know that I am only a "creation" and NOT the Creator; therefore I cannot (with a finite mind) answer your question on either Leah's earthly fate nor exactly "why" God has allowed this to occur in this manner.
I can speculate, but I choose not to.
I do know she wasn't ashamed to boldly stand for her Lord and Savior (and the Bible clearly says that those who desire to live Godly lives shall suffer persecution...
2 Timothy 3:12) and He knows and has her...and "good" can come from a tragic situation.
Sometimes it's just not about "us" only....but a bigger picture.
However, "no", I do not see where my prayers are useless..
Prayer has never, nor is, nor will ever be useless if it
is done with sincerity and humility.

No offense but I don't expect you to understand the spiritual aspect of the situation...cause you are thinking with a carnal mind.
I invite you to study the Word of God..prayerfully and with humility through the Holy Spirit's guiding...

Your prayer is useless whether u choose to accept it or not

Seandisputed:
I'm a Manchester United fan but I'll keep saying it..

Asides Man City and Liverpool, other teams are filled with over hyped average players

No Neymar, No Cavani and they couldn't bank on that,

Unfortunately, we are out of the Champions League.

imagine having mata in your team,Mata dat can not chase ball

perousd:
Come make I take you go baba side make he nak u with jazz make you cough money cone out. and then you will start explaining how it happened. Instead to seek for truth, you seek for evidence or rather seek to disprove evidences. Before I move on. do you believe that man is a spirit , has a soul and lives in a Body? Do you understand that man can leave their body and go places?do you believe that a woman or man can manipulate weather ,turn to a bird and fly?
I can help you see these things in case you haven't. I can take you to my village if you don't believe.
There's a God that beats your human capacity; intellect and proofs.
There's a master planner of everything. There's a higher power that render the human senses absolutely clueless.
But I'm serious about taking you to my village for proofs. If you do not believe in God after 3 days, I'll refund you for wasting your time.

Here is a better suggestion
Technology has made things easier and more efficient,If the Op agrees to ur request and goes to the babalawo he would be the only one to witness it,besides it doesn't make sense to follow a stranger to a shrine,what if the stranger is a kidnapper or ritualist, I would suggest this,go to ur Babalawo and make a video of him turning a fowl into a goat or whatever "magic" he can do,post it here so we all can see and in that way u won't convince the Op alone but all other atheists too,both of u can cover ur faces if u don't want ur identities revealed

Mobilia:


They won't be a waste for some of you.
Leah has not been forgotten.
My prayers for her are specific.
My prayers for you guys are also specific.

Why hasn't she been released ?


Don't u see ur prayers are useless

Mobilia:


Yes...Frank.
Something's wrong with me...(heard that a few times).
Prayer is not a "one-time" trick...where I pray once and poof...there's my answer.
God teaches us (patience, faith, trust, perseverance etc) through the art of praying. It's not always about "what we can get"....

I'm not a "numbers-sort-of-gal", so I'm not impressed by them.
I've come to know that "majority" oftentimes, doesn't equate to truth. It just equates to "a lot"..

We are even told in the Bible (and I'm paraphrasing) that "broad is the way that leads to destruction...and many there be that are on that path"...Matthew 7:13.

I guess I haven't been on the site long enough to know the tons of "Christians" who have been deceived....
You guys do work "overtime" though...especially on impressionable minds...who aren't firmly solid on what they believe.
Even if you could produce numbers, that would not phase me at all.
I have only known of one young lady...who I saw a recent change (within the 2 years of me being a member here), that I'm concerned about...and I made that known.
Obinna is the other person (that I know of) who consistently boasts of his "conversion"...unfortunately.
He's very proud and happy....so he says.

But the stories of (his, her) and many folks are not finished just yet..with all due respect.

Frank, that's not a proud thing to be on here boasting and partying about folks who you (and others) are leading to perdition...
Even if an atheist had a conversion back to Christianity he/she would probably be too frightened to speak about it on here.
Some "re-conversions", if I can loosely use that word, we will only know, when we make it into the Kingdom.

A lot of you guys and gals are very intelligent...but that will be the down-fall for some of you.
Trying to intellectually reason (with finite minds) and completely understand an infallible Creator.
It will never happen...
Which is why you guys have no peace.
Surrender so you can have that peace...it's crucial.
God doesn't "force"...the Holy Spirit touches hearts..and transforms them.
But you guys have to be willing to see your need...

I see no atheist achievement.
I see how powerful some of you guys could be if______....let me just let you guys fill in the blank.
What I have is a heart of pity...and an even more steadfast comittment to daily praying, Frank
I'm not stopping sir...
You take care...

Don't waste ur prayers on us instead pray for Leah Sharibu

SarcasticMe:


I obviously can't satisfy your malicious and shady probing... My answers to you are indirectly directed at those Christians you're aiming to lure away from the light.
If your mind can't conceive a perfect world, how would I convince you of its meaning? Work on your mind, and stop spiting what you don't understand.

So why are christaians afraid to die,if you offer 100 Nigerians who are living on meagre income a free visa to travel the U.K along with a permanent resident permit and a 1 million pound check, do you think any of them would hesitate
Now let's switch it to u guys,ur heaven is a perfect place and of course earth is a place of suffering and turmoil but no christian wants to die and go to heaven,you all want to continue to suffer with us on earth,u can imagine some of u praying to live for 100 years on earth with all the problems and difficulties u have especially in this part of the world instead of praying to die and Go to heaven and enjoy

U think say we be MUGU ?

Africanness:

Have u heard his song wt swae lee. Borrowed love.

I would probably check that out

You don't get it yet.
If I told you I LOVE you, is there a scientific instrument to assertain the truthfulness of what I said? If indeed I do love you, is there a scientific means of quantifying the love? Is there even a standard of what one can consider as 100% love?

Christ !!!,you are killing me,so u expect me to provide a scientific instrument like a thermometer to measure love,love is a feeling,it is intangible if I may put it that way,but we know it exists because we can demonstrate it,this is all I have said,I never mentioned anything about quantifying it,so I ask you a simple question
Can Spirituality be demonstrated, if so ,how ?

So many questions begging for answers.Since all these cannot be proven, does it mean Love doesn't exist? That seems to be your position: that since God cannot be proven, he doesn't exist!

First off,love can be proven,do u think otherwise ?
It seems you don't know my position when it comes to belief in God, I understand that a lot of things can not be proven and may well be beyond the understanding of humans but I am not blind to believe or accept any explanation as TRUTH,I may not know the depth of the Pacific ocean,but I am certain it is not 50000000000000000000000000 metres,I may not know how the unuverse was formed but I know that the account giving in the bible and other religions are false,if God is only described as "the entity that created the universe",nothing else attached, and the word " create" in this context simply meaning "influencing the formation of the universe" without any particular pattern or means being referenced, then I am agnostic,I would also consider myself agnostic if u were talking of a deistic,pantheistic or even panentheistic God,but when u describe God as an anthropomorphic being,whose features,nature and will is defined then I must see myself as an atheist in that regard,and I think that is why u view me as such,for the purpose of clarity I would always use the word YHWH so I am not misunderstood, u can use God or whatever u like,I know u are still referring to YHWH

I don't know about proving you to be an atheist. It's not even possible. Only you can decide that.

You said you can not prove your God to me and I responded by telling you in the same way "I can't prove my atheism to you"

The what if Questions I answered very clearly. For your remembrance:

I remember mentioning this in a previous thread,all religions do not agree on what is right or wrong,of course there are certain actions perceived to be right or wrong common to all religions,but there must be at least one act that is right only in a particular religion but wrong in others vice versa,you can not be a perfect Christian and still satisfy the criteria for Anubis' moral scale

You seem to hold a notion that he'll is a blanket judgement. No, it isn't sir.Even heaven isn't a blanket Bliss. Every one is rewarded according to the level of faithfulness or unfaithfulness to love to God and fellow human beings and obedience to God's will.

I rest my case!

Really ?
Tell me more @ the bolded

Wizkid come take style resemble Swae Lee

Ayobami7:
Happy birthday To Me, Myself and I

Why u no type am for Chinese ?

XxSabrinaxX:
Three pages in and the original question by the OP has been dodged epically. Lol , the christians of this forum are wonderful
In case y'all have forgotten (I'm looking @ you, shadeyinka), this is the question on ground:

He asked such question

what if you discover that God really exists,what will be your reaction and response

And I have given him a direct answer, but you know typical christians,then can never assume that they could be wrong, yet we are accused of being proud,they are always insecure,they feel if they give u an answer you would use it against them,see Shadeyinka's first response

Like why believe in Love when you can't quantify it.
Why control fear when it cannot be measured
Why should words of an order be obeyed

They may not be quantifiable but at least they can be clearly demonstrated hence we know they exist, can you demonstrate spirituality ?

Before you start screaming that these are emotions and not personalities! No one can prove the spiritual,!

If the spiritual can not be proved then why do u believe it exists because I am sure you weren't born with such knowledge you picked that up at some point in ur life,what convinced you ?

I don't intend to prove YHWH to you. It's not possible.
Athiesm is a KIND of Faith (in Self as a replacement for God).

It seems you have a different definition of the word "faith" .If it is impossible to prove YHWH to us then what is the point of arguing with ?,I can also claim its impossible to prove my atheism to you,whatcha think ?

I there is 0.001% probability that God exist to you, the fact that either way there is no proof means you are living by your faith.

Yes, you are correct,only that such faith is negligibe

What if you discover that God really exist, what would be your reaction and response

since you are a christian I would assume that you are not referring to a pantheistic or deistic god but YHWH

Let me teach you guys how to answer a What if question,because it is pretty evident that you guys are so insecure and narrow minded that u can not even entertain the possibility that you could be wrong

ASSUMING YHWH actually exists and everything is the way the bible says it is,I wouldn't shudder not a bit,if I die and meet him on judgement day I would spit on his face,worse he can do is throw me into hell,no problem I won't be alone there I would have some companionship,I would have all the Muslims,Hindus,Buddhists,Jews,Zoroastrians,Jains,Sikhists,Aztecs,Mormons,Atheists,Deists,Pantheists,Panentheists,Atheists,Agnostics and free thinkers that ever lived there alongside others groups.I would also have some notable personalities like CAPSLOCK,Seun and all other nairaland atheists,Albert Einstein,Anne frank,Bill Gates,Mark Zuckerberg and the rest

This is my earnest reply

shadeyinka:

Like why believe in Love when you can't quantify it.
Why control fear when it cannot be measured
Why should words of an order be obeyed

Before you start screaming that these are emotions and not personalities! No one can prove the spiritual,!

I don't intend to prove YHWH to you. It's not possible.
Athiesm is a KIND of Faith (in Self as a replacement for God).

If there is 0.001% probability that God exist to you, the fact that either way there is no proof means you are living by your faith.

What if you discover that God really exist, what would be your reaction and response?

.

Insecurity and jealousy is what I see in y'all comments

She is getting blasted for simply taking a picture that every other person does

Christ !!!

But shaa I blame the Op and the Mod wey move this thread to FP

frank317:

U are just all over the place and don't seem to understand even ur own point.
-Does pascals wager focus on other conditions required to be in good term with monotheistic God?
-u accept atheists are against the arrogance of monotheism which is mostly faith based, and u say pascals wager is not a yardstick for faith based belief, now u turn to say pascals wager focuses on monotheistic God. I don't seem to know what u really are about.
Why exactly do u think pascals wager is reasonable?


Believer in what sense? Was he a faith based christian who even u have mentioned does not need pascals wager.


Yet u fail to see the holes we have poked in this "imperfect" analogy.


Yet u call him a perfect God


U only succeeded in making the church look like a confused place. Again, are u saying its impossible for doctrines to change? This article of faith u talk about, is it one sent by God himself? U are saying without article of faith it is impossible to know what certain church doctrines and beliefs are? So how many times do u go to church and u are presented with article of faith as a new member?


How is it a solid agreement? Are things related to making heaven a yes or no issue? Does just believing there is God take anyone to heaven?

The bolded is one of the points I have been trying to make

DOES SIMPLY BELIEVING IN GOD TAKE ANYONE TO HEAVEN ?

Hapi bday to her

She shares the same bday with Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar

It is interesting isn't it

Theists do not believe in Paschal's wager but some how they expect atheists to be convinced,I have pointed the two problems I have with it and I would point them out again

1)there are many belief systems/religions/gods who promise hell or some sort of after life punishment to non-followers so the problem of which to choose arises remember that the wager is simply "logic" hence working based on that if you choose any of the religions your probability of being correct is really small
2)there is no belief system/religion/God who promises eternal bliss to people who simply belief in it,in fact belief is just the first step

For Paschal's wager to make sense the following has to be the case

1) there is only ONE GOD in the picture
2)GOD would offer anyone who simply believes in it eternal life

Apparently the former is the case,hence Paschal's Wager is bullshít as far as I'm concerned

Peace






Originalkalokalo^peace

shadeyinka:

Your tactics don't move me one bit.
Don't digress from the main issue "the Pascal's Wager".

On another thread if you want me to answer that I will joyfully. If you have the time to go through my earlier posts on other threads you can also know my stand.

There are some other responses that u gave that digressed from the topic,u know why u don't want to answer the question
Going through your entire posts just to find where you addressed something similar to the question I asked when u can simply give me a reply,sorry bro,if u ain't answering it forget it

shadeyinka:

The Pascals Wager isn't just about punishment for dissobedience it is about RISK to REWARD ratio. It is JUST Mathematics. The Pascal's Wager if you understand is gives you a scenario of fighting a Battle you cannot Win. There is a similar saying in the Casino "You can't beat the House"!
The Pascal's Wager is perfectly Reasonable!


Pascal's Wager isn't a spiritual view of the Christian Religion and Heaven.
If I had started quoting scriptures wouldn't you have laughed me to scorn?

However for you Atheists, the Pascal's Wager is a Purely Rational and Logical means of looking at your choices with respect to spiritual things.And for me it's a good place to start with you atheists.

From this end you must start before you even try to comprehend spiritual things.

The Paschals Wager would have been reasonable if
1)Only One God is worshipped by humans
2) God would reward people who simply believe in him,and doesn't mind if their purpose is insincere(as in the case of the Wager,believing not because of faith or trust,but because you feel u have nothing to lose)

Apparently none of this holds true,there are many religions which have punishments in the afterlife for people who didn't follow their path as dictated by their belief system(so acknowledging God is not enough),some like Buddhism don't even need you to involve God,so it is not just about believing in God, which do you believe in ?,and I do not want to concur that an omniscient God would grant someone eternal bliss knowing that the individual believed in him for insincere reasons.

Sorry bro,Paschals Wager is not working for me

shadeyinka:

The God of Abraham DOES not have a Book!

The Bible if you want to know is Simply a "Chronicle" of Man's experience of God put down for posterity to Learn and Grow in Knowledge, Love, Character and Faith. The Bible is just a Chronicle of God's interventions in the affairs of men and Man's experiences and response to God's principles and will.

As per does God have a Book? No!

The Muslims however will dissagree with me in the sense that they claim that the Quran is a book that had existed in Heaven even before Prophet Mohammed was born

I should rephrase my question and be more direct,since u choose to be tactful

Does "the abrahamic God" have a book which he inspired ?

shadeyinka:


What I personally believe has no bases for the analysis of the Pascal's Wager as it affects athiesm or theism.
At least a Muslim still takes the words of warning seriously and he wouldn't deliberately dare putting his hands in the pot
Unlike YOU!

You have concluded that
1. No personality penned the warning
2. You are willing to DARE putting your hands in the POT
3. For you believe there is NO consequence

Now, the Pascal's Wager is about the Consequence of You being Wrong versus the Reward you get if you were eventually right

alright,it seems you are scared to give me your answer,don't worry I understand your plight,your are damned if you do,you are damned if you don't

shadeyinka:

I refer to the God of Abraham.

For this discussion, it is sufficient!

Does the God of Abraham have a holy book?,if yes please could you tell me the name

I think I know a little of Hinduism to disagree with you.
No one goes to hell because of the "sin" of Killing "mother cow"! The worst that can happen is that you reincarnate back to the Earth as a lower animal.

whether one goes to hell or returns back as a lower animal,the most important thing is that there is punishment given to those who disobey,and the rules are not he same,what is acceptable in one religion is unacceptable in another

On your second paragraph, I need you to know that the two essential ingredients is
1. Aknowedgement of the Personality behind the warning of the "pot" even though there is no evidence for him other than the writing
2. Taking the words seriously because of the attendant consequence if violated.

The one I provided is a lot better than this,urs would be accurate if simply believing in God would fetch one eternal life,but sadly it is not good enough,the road to eternal life does not end in simply believing in God,so ur analogy didn't solve that problem

HOWEVER,
Personally, the Pascal's Wager is Just a purely Rational way of looking at the Abrahamic religions AND is NOT a means of Justification for Faith in God.The Pascal's Wager is FEAR oriented, this is not the way of the Spirit.

Faith itself is a Produce of Relationship fueled by a desire to Know God!

You should have said this the first time,instead you took the stance that the Paschals Wager was reasonable and u even derided people who don't uphold it,now u see there are a lot of problems with it and u are retreating
Everyone knows that a christian who only believes in God simply because of the Paschals Wager wouldn't be going to heaven,but that is not the issue,we are trying to expose the weakness of that philosophy,only those who align with it should argue against
So take ur stance !

shadeyinka:

Did I tell you they are the same?
1. What I told you is that "the three religions worship ONE God" as in Monotheistic
2. The three religions point to the God of Abraham as their God

Please refer back to my earlier post.
Mark the words in italics!

One question to settle this

Do you believe that a Muslim can go to the heaven portrayed in Christianity ?

shadeyinka:

So happy I am that someone is speaking intelligently about this.

Unfortunately, even though some religion prescribe torment for some humans after their death, it is always for the SIN of WICKEDNESS
And not the SIN of not following a Particular God or Religion . I wish you can prove me wrong on this.

Only the God of Abraham demands an exclusive Obeisance as far as I know!

If you have a contrary opinion, I wish to learn.
Thanks
Like you said,

"Not all who say to me Lord, Lord
BUT
Those who do the WILL of My Father"

My Friend,
It still bore down to acknowledgement of God as God and Obedience to His will.

Very similar to taking the Author of the Script Seriously and taking heed to his instructions about the Pot

I think at this point I have to ask this,which God are you referring to ?

Yahweh,Allah,Krishna, Ahura Mazda,Zeus,A deistic God ,a Pantheistic God,or one not mentioned ?

shadeyinka:

So happy I am that someone is speaking intelligently about this.

Unfortunately, even though some religion prescribe torment for some humans after their death, it is always for the SIN of WICKEDNESS
And not the SIN of not following a Particular God or Religion . I wish you can prove me wrong on this.

Only the God of Abraham demands an exclusive Obeisance as far as I know!

If you have a contrary opinion, I wish to learn.
Thanks

I don't want to dwell much on that,but u should note that "the sin of wickedness" is not a consensus, for instance it is a sin in Hinduism to kill a cow much less eating it,I don't think christians agree on that,I have more important issues to point out so let's move on

As I pointed out in the end of my post,giving that certain religions require more than just believing in their God to get eternal bliss,I think it is not well portrayed in ur analogy,rather it than just getting the gold by simply opening the pot(I.e believing in God),it should be the first step to getting the gold,maybe inside the pot is a map that would lead you to getting the gold if you overcome many other obstacles you would find on your way

Is Pascal's Wager still reasonable

shadeyinka:

Hear yourself speak falsehood!
Do the three religions not claim " the God of Abraham?"
Are the three religions not Monotheistic?

Think before you write

You should open a thread on this if you can and do well to tag me alongside some outspoken christians in this forum
To answer you questions
Yes the three religions claim "the God of Abraham"
Yes the three claim to be monotheistic
Now let me ask you mine,since you claim that the God represented in all thee religions are the same,give a yes or no answer if you can
1) Does God have a son?
2)Which book is inspired by God,the bible,koran or tanakh ?
3)Does God allow polygamous marriages?
4)Is Mohammed God's prophet?
5)Does God give people the inspiration to speak in tongues?
6)Does God request for Baptism ?