haibe:

here is what perceive mean:

per·ceive /pərˈsēv/
Verb: 1. Become aware or conscious of (something); come to realize or understand

2. Become aware of (something) by the use of one of the senses, esp. that of sight

how does perceive mean to talk to?

haibe:

so how can you explain this:

haibe:

you are now changing it to perceive, after saying the bible says saul TALKED to samuel. you won't cease to amaze me.

do you know the difference between talking to someone and to perceive something?

haibe:

okay what does your own bible say, the kjv uses perceive, some other versions use recognize

haibe:

Excuse me don't you have a bible verse to support your claim, you said the bible said saul TALKED with samuel and I want to know where that is in the bible, please show me, we learn everyday and I want to know where that is in the bible.

haibe:

am waiting for a reply, I want to go to bed

haibe:

Jesus!! where in that post did I say saul TALKED with samuel ghost.

So are you even depending on my point, so you didn't see that in the bible and you said it confidently? lol.

haibe: @itsfact am I your bible? you said the bible said saul TALKED with samuel and I said show me that from the bible.

where in my post did I say saul TALKED with samuel?

dont you have a bible verse to back your point?

haibe:

can you show me where the bible said saul talked to a ghost?

but mr man why are you dodging my question, Jesus said he wasn't a ghost, what is your definition of this ghost, is it a dead man apparition or spirit like God?

haibe: They thought they saw spirit(ghost) doesn't mean spirits exist.

Saul saw samuel's ghost doesn't mean it was actually samuel.

We have wizard here and there who help to invoke the dead to speak with the living, demons can deceive human beings to think they are their relatives but that doesn't mean they are actually their relatives.

The belief of ghosts have been in place even till today, the disciples lived in an environment where people believed in ghosts and so when they saw someone who was dead face to face, the first thought that would come to them is that this is a ghost according to the belief system, and so Jesus told them he wasn't a ghost like they think, simple.

So ghosts do not actually exist, devil can only make someone feel he is seeing a dead relative of his but he is actually dead in the grave.

haibe:

The word ghost was actually synonymous with spirit in early english unlike now which the word ghost means a dead person's apparition, so it won't be right to use the word holy ghost in today's modern day english.

That is what i have been trying to explain to @itsfact that ghost mean the dead's apparition today but he is still confusing it with spirit beings(eg angels).

haibe:

Let me just get what you think Jesus meant by ghost.

Is it a dead man's apparition or spirit being like angel, demon, God?

haibe:

Jesus said he wasn't a ghost

What did he mean here, is it a dead man's apparition or spirit being like angel, God, etc.

What is your definition of this ghost in simple term not story?

haibe:

Just answer the questions above you, then i would reply.

haibe:

From your posts now, i can deduce that according to you:

Spirit and ghost mean the same thing.

God is not a ghost: since God is not a ghost and you say ghost is the same with spirit, it means God is not a spirit.

How can you reconcile this with John 4:24 ?

haibe:

That's why i asked: what is your definition of ghost as used by Jesus in that verse, please answer first now.

haibe:

Apparition is simply an appearance, i believe in apparition of spirits beings, i do not believe in apparition of ghosts(because they don't even exist), do you get it now?

haibe:

Thanks for making it clearer, i do not believe in ghosts(disembodied spirit of the deceased coming to life) but i belief in spirit beings(like angels demons, God etc)

Jesus became a spiritual being after resurrection, so i believe in spirits, i do not just believe in ghosts.

I think what is confusing @itsfact is the use of words.

haibe:

Jesus said he wasn't a ghost.

What is your definition of the ghost as used in this context?

haibe: They thought they saw spirit(ghost) doesn't mean spirits exist.

Saul saw samuel's ghost doesn't mean it was actually samuel.

We have wizard here and there who help to invoke the dead to speak with the living, demons can deceive human beings to think they are their relatives but that doesn't mean they are actually their relatives.

The belief of ghosts have been in place even till today, the disciples lived in an environment where people believed in ghosts and so when they saw someone who was dead face to face, the first thought that would come to them is that this is a ghost according to the belief system, and so Jesus told them he wasn't a ghost like they think, simple.

So ghosts do not actually exist, devil can only make someone feel he is seeing a dead relative of his but he is actually dead in the grave.

haibe:

This is contradictory, they can't be ghosts and demons at the same time.

If you say ghosts exist, it means those dead people appearing are not demons but the real dead person.

If you say they are demons posing as the dead, it mean they are not actually ghosts and thus ghosts don't exist.

The both are mutually exclusive, they can be the ghost of the dead and demons at the same time, get it?

haibe:

This is contradictory, they can't be ghosts and demons at the same time.

If you say ghosts exist, it means those dead people appearing are not demons but the real dead person.

If you say they are demons posing as the dead, it mean they are not actually ghosts and thus ghosts don't exist.

The both are mutually exclusive, they can be the ghost of the dead and demons at the same time, get it?

haibe:

The bible didn't use the word "ghost" for samuel, the bible said "saul perceived it was samuel", so it wasn't infact samuel.

My question is how do you know Jesus did not later tell them that no dead man can actually appear to the living? Or that ghosts don't exist? Do you think it is every single thing that is recorded in the bible?

haibe:

If i describe a zombie according to people's superstitious description of it, does that mean zombies exist?

haibe:

If they are most likely demons posing as the dead, are they really the dead?

haibe:

Φƙα̲̅ψ.

1) What is a ghost?

2) What is a spirit?

"...And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the water"(Gen 1:2)

3) Can we say: and the ghost of God moved upon the face of the waters?

"And declared to be the son of God according to the spirit of holiness" (Romans 1:4)

4) Can we say Jesus was declared the Son of God according to the ghost of holiness?

haibe:

You are still confusing the word ghost with spirit after all the explanation i gave about the words? Later if i say you are dull now it will look like am saying something bad, lol.

haibe:

@itsfact answer this first

haibe:

You are very dull bro, am sorry but you are giving me this impression.

The wizard of endor made saul recognize what he would call the ghost of samuel but was it really samuel? No, if it wasn't samuel, then it mean what he saw wasn't a ghost but perhaps a demon or saul was made to experience an illusion of seeing samuel. ghost' s existence is a mythology, demons only take the form of dead ones to make you feel they are the dead but its not actually the dead.

Are you sure you have ever read that passage, you have a poor interpretation.

haibe:

Are you too dull to understand an archaic use of a word and modern day use of a word?

The word ghost is an archaic word for spirit and so they were used interchangeable, the greek word translated ghost and spirit is pneuma', they mean the same thing

Language is dynamic my brother, the use of some words get obsolete over time, today the word ghost is used to explain a dead person who appears to the living(this is a myth, no sound christians would tell you a person who is dead can appear to the living), the word spirit is simple used to denote a supernatural being or the animating force in man.

Now my point is ghosts do not exist but you say they do exist, i asked for scriptural prove but you couldn't give anyone, does that not show you don't even know what you are saying? Jesus was not a ghost when he resurrected, he became a spirit being(God is a spirit, angels are spirits), that's why i said the right word to use is ghost in that verse because Jesus infact became a spirit being like the angels after resurrection, not disembodied spirit in man like you people believe, but a spirit being like angels, angels do have bodies, you just can't see them with physical eyes unless they put on mortal flesh.

So the fact remain that Jesus wasn't a ghost but a spirit being after resurrection, he had body a spiritual body which the disciples could not see and so took on the flesh of mortal man in order to be visible to his disciples.

Ghosts do not exist, spirits do exist, ghosts are dead who interract with the living in mythologies, spirits are living beings who are invisible to human but can materialise to be made visible, example is God, angels, demons etc.

If you say ghosts exist, then it means a dead relative of yours can still come and relate with you while alive, mr man i will urge not to believe ghosts, demons would only take the form of your dead relative to deceive you, the real dead relative is in the grave awaiting resurrection, you and ravgach are the first christian that i know believes in the mythology of ghosts and i am really ashamed to call you christians, lol, its a disgrace to christendom.