i worship @ Daystar Christian Centre

hi sorry, i've not been around for a while.
@justcool,
i got just one question for you, i've read to an extent this book you are talking about,and i see your point of refrence and you source of understaniding and perception.but i am asking for only one single proof to show me that this book is the Truth, and not just the falacy of some people trying to explain with logical reasons what they do not understand? how can you validate the account of this book on the things it says? how are you sure it is not an attempt to cover the truth by giving people a very logical explanation that is perfextly orchestrated so as to blindfold and shield people from the real truth? how can you prove to me that the accounts of this book is accurate? cos if you do not believe in the account of the bible, or betterstill like you put it, if you think the bible's account is not complete or illogical and untrue in regards to most of the miracles, because there is no present day proof, then how can you convince me that this book is also accurate?! Pardon me, bbut i feel that just as much as i can not give you proof that the bible is true, apart from my Personal Testimony of it and its own account, then also you cant give me any proof that your book is tru, apart from your own testimony of its"logicality" (permit that word) and what the book says.so also a Muslim will hold on to his own testimony of the Quran and what the Quran says. Nothing more, no other thing to prove the authenticity of these books. in fact the same question i feel you might want to ask me, the people who wrote this book and gave all this EXPLANATIONS, who explained it to them? is it not a product of majorly their mind and imagination? cos i dont seeanywhere in the book or wherevver they mentioned hte source or their intelligence or knowledge of the topic. i wont mind looking it up if you will give me a link to source out the answer. This book is only a product of somepeolple's mind and imagination and a quest to exzpalin the mysteries they do not understand. well i will be glad to see your reply soonest. thx alot. adios
@fyneguy
hello, how you doing.
mind if we get to have  chat sometime on the net, without all the assles of points and contest?lol just kidding. but a nice and cool discussion would be nice as long as there wont be ARGUMENTS. and all others are invited but strictly no arguements. more info SOON.
@ ALL
i think we have really digressed out of the real topic of this thread, but all good. i just hope we all have been learning from each other and not just arguing.
so thx to you all. eagerly awaiting your reply.

@m_nwankwo,
finally you speak a word of plain sensibility, without being biased! yeah thx a lot for being plain. good. now from this point, may i say that how many people are aware of what peered refreed journals are saying,.my point is what is in circulation is mostly hwat some "hobbieist" i wont call them scientist cook up and feed to the people. check google, there is more than enough garbage about BT to last the entire human race for generations.
@justcool,
i would say 10Q for that explanation, it really does sheda light on the issue of your point and i would admit i learnt from it. thx a lot.
@huxley,
lol, thx for pointing out the fact that i do not speak and explain my words in scientific terms and do not come across with my point as a scientist, but if i am to do that, wont we all be talking from the same point of view, and no one will be outside the box to look at things from a different perspective. cos to my own understanding, if i was to do as you request, then i believe we would have rounded up this thread a little while ago, cos it would end to us agreeing about it all as a gru\oup of scientist would, now not that i am prolonging the discussion, but i feel, someone out of the game is usually necessary to help see, the unseen loop holes left in the game.
besides, my hurray is not one of victory that i won the arguement it was one of sarcasicm, that ipredicyed how you would reply my post.if you read my post well you would see, what i mean.
Now to the point of, what i believe is plauseable about the BT, the metane release,looks good to explain it, and i would say i personally, have thought about the plausability of the thesis, and come to some likeable agreement but still i have some unanswered questions that i have been trying to find answers to.and this questions give me the perspective that this thesis is not accurate( well, wats the point thank God its a thesis and not a Theory).
1. what is the cause of the constant relese of Methane?cos if that can be identified, it gives a litle edge on solving the chaos.
2. if methane is at constant presence in that area, then dont you think thatp alce should be frequented with explosions,( even on water)considering that methane is "xplosive".?
3.Methane being poisonous should inhibit the rate of marine life in that vicinity.
4.where did the planes that were claimed to have disappeared, go to? at least a crash site should be stated, or the reckage submerged if it fell in water.
5.how does the methane or whatever wlse explain, the case of a man who disappeardd for over a decade or so,who now appeared later on, and the fish he caught b4 disappearing was still alive as well.?
and a host of qwuestions like that.
anyway. it simple, more answers will only bring more questions, but i guess we can continue then.

@ hurray! hurray!! hurray!!! huxley,
you performed as expected, you are so predictable, and sorry pls do not this personal, dont you think you are being a victim of the very thing you wrote as your name tag? come on do you have to be so gullible to believe every and anything.come on, grow up.

hello, educate yourself man, visit Wikipedia or google and see for yourself, all the comotion going on. its a rumble and jumble out there. then come back and give me an insightful report. okay. of why no one has been able to give reasonable answers to it all. al dios senio.

@huxley,
hmm, the Bermuda triangle!!! is one very intresting one. . i dont need to be a good scientist by, being to proud to aadmit my lapses, if you dont know something, is it not wisdom for you to say so and open grounds for learning and corrections, instead of just giving opinion, you yourself know you cant solidify. the Bermuda triangle is one of things like that. its still inexplainable from my own point of view,all science is doing is explaining what they themselves do not understand.

@justcool,
you know what,i am a scientist myself, i love science, and one of the things i love about it is that we alsways try to explain everything away in our own terms even those which we do not seem to understand, we look for ways to cloud and shroud and then explain it away. concerning my last post, yes i agree God is not a earthly government that would negate what he has established,Yes. agreed. now how come you only explained away the healing of diseases where did the ascension of Jesus go to, hmm, let me guess he did not really ascend and Elijah was not realy taken up by a Chariot of fire, they were both swept by wind or a large kite was used to take them away or a rope was thrown from heaven and they climbed on it right.? just kidding. but anyway really, if you say miracles are just NATURAL things that are quickened by 'DIVINE ENERGY', then how long would it have taken Mary's egg to have become a baby without a sperm or how long and how much 'divine energy ' would it have required for Jesus walking on water? but dont worry i wont bother expecting you to understand cos you and your bros over here nwankwo,are so full of understanding to be able to explain and sweep anything that does not stand to agree with your perspective into a vortex of Logical explanation. See, i am not trying to convince you of my own perspective, i have been able to see your reasons, and i understand your debate, and i respect it. but all i need for you to know is that speaking as a scientist, Miracles are just natural occurence that are interwined with spiritual backings or like oyu put it, Divine Energy, but as a Christian Miracles are Spritual occurence that are made manifest in the natural realm. this are two parallel views, now as a scientist i agree with your point, yes you are right, and also as a Christian i uphold my ground to say that for every natural occurencce there is a spiritual backing. And i dare say that, without being biased,the spiritual has a whole lot of things that even Us Christians do not understand but are gaining Knowledge in,we admit that. but can we all as scientist really come to admit that that are things in science we do not really understand? There is a whole lot of things we do NOT know about the things we DO know.I n both Spiritual and Scientific, there are unknowns, but you know the thing, how many are ready to admit this unknowns. As a christian, God is the basis of my Spirituality, i do not know him fully, but everyday i nkow him more and more, and for everything i do not understand, i stand yto say that i ask him to teach me, and make me understand,issues like, what happened before the begining that was recorded in the bible? things like that. but you know what. can you as a scientist stand up to own up to thigs you do not understand? and admit you do not undtand, rather than gruging up and looking for ways to explain the unexplainable away. well if everything is explainable and ordinary, then why do we have words, like Extraordinary and Phenomenon.

[size=14pt]ERUJEJE OBA MIMO, KABIYESI,[/size]Thank you FATHER for the breathe of life, you have given US, the gift of LIFE is one we can never repay you for, Thank yoiu for the Gift of SALVATION, Thank you for your everlasting FAITHFULNESS on us even when we are UNFAITHFUL, Thank you for your LOVE for us, for your CARE , What are we mortals that you should care about us, but you remain Good to us and you have always been there for us even when we forget about you, you hold us up even in times when we turn from you ,you preserve us from he that seeks to destroy us, and hold us with your unfsiling love even when we walk away from you. LORD, All we can say is THANK YOU.All we can give you is all we Have and all we ARE. Take it all, and use it as you will, that your Purpose for our lives might be established, cos even if we dont aknowledge you, you still remain God, you remain unchanged,unmoved. Lord you are GOOD.

this is a wonderful thread, heres my first post:
[b][/b] A man'S LIFE is only as good as the QUALITY of his THOUGHTS.

hmmm, now this is sometihng, Science calls the Bermuda triangle a phenomenon, cos it is yet to be understood, christians are already begining to say it is the home of demons and all, wateva, personally for me i'll simply say this is a planetary phenomenon we cant understand, but what i will say is that it is not hell or what ever you want to uderstand it as, hell is not a place you can get to in your mortal bodym its a spiritual place,and we have heard records of people who have disappeard into the triangle and turned out decades later still as if not a second had passed, there was the case of a man fishing, and he caught a fish, and he disappeard in the triangle and when he was to appear decades later the fish he caught was still jumping as if it was just caught, so how do you explain this, well, i tell its not hell, cos, you have to die before you go to hell, and hell is not what kills you, hell is where you go when you diewithout kinowing God, so my i\opinion the Bermuda Triangle is NOT hell.

@justcool

justcool:


Extramists on both sides are always people with pseudo knowledge or half knowledge.

now thats something i totally agree with, anyway, i pray God help people on both sides to see.

i dpnt know bout you all, but i think this is an issue that evn as common as the practice is getin, some ppl are still ignorant of it, aand ppl need to be edeucated about this, so i think it would be a nice avenue to educate thosewho do not know, and to help those who need help.

PastOR AIO
What Superiority?, to who? to gain what?,see thats the problem, looking to prove the other person wrong. when will you understand that you can never bring the two sides of a coin to face each other, but you just have to realise that even though they back each other, they are one and the same? or let me put it this way. i am wearing a pants, the right side is coloured black, the left side is coloured white. now if you were to as a man sitting on my right side the colour of my trouser, he would tell you black because that is what he sees, and if you asks the one my left he would tell you white, because thats what he sees, but you have to realize that i am one person wearing one trousers but two people with two different ideas and perspective about me.Now theses two people are both right from their own perspective,and none of them can be right with his own idea on the other persons plain and terrain,so they are both right, but different perspectives.

@justtocool
i would like to think you are educated on both sides of this issue, now you know this but how many others do,and besides what most people try to do is to prove the irrelevance of the opposing party, now from the illustration you gave,it pretty simple to understand when you have the conciousness of the fact that there is always two sides to a coin.and besides as one who believes in creation, and also a scientist, i would say i thank you for the wisdom of that illustration. and besides to add to it,God is the creator and he himself even instigated science and evolution.i wont say that this or that is how God created everything he created, but lets be sincere to ourselves, the entire issue is deep, but one link i see in both the evolution and creation theory is that they were both instigated by God,but as we both know "creationist" as you call them, and evolutionist are in a race to prove the other wrong, not realizing the fact that there is also a win- win principle, if only they could just put aside their difference and consider their similarities, they would realize the extent to which they are alike and that they have the same route and objective just different perspective.

@Olabowale
men my bro, you need HELP, sorry butthat just what i think. Jesus is no more a man, he died ones as a man, but when he arose again he was not man, He was GOD, it was after he resurrected that he entered a house that ws locked even with out knocking, it was after it that he ascended into heaven, breaking the law of gravity. if mohammed is anything Close to Jesus, he should rise again, even if not as immortal but even as man in the least.Jesus, well i can tell you that you will wait till eternity and not see the fulfilment of Jesus in that grave. okay so HAPPY WAITING okay. lol
@ JeSoul
Api Byday, and pls parcel our cake over the network we go recieve am by FAITH, lol Havce a nice Behind cool yummy bubbly crunchy gooly goody munchy skyly, wat ever you get tyhe message right DAY

Speaking of Postrating: i think thats only an act of respect to who you are postrating for, bowing to your parents is an act of courtsy, and it is very different to reverence to God because the circumstances surrounding it are different, bbut doing that in a situation like, postrating to you parent as an act of worship is defintely out of the question.

@Kunle
yeah i agree that the entire time that tithe was mention it spoke about farm yieldings, but if i may ask you now, i do not farm, so i have no crop yeilding, and like we have established, you pay tithes on a personal basis of what you are led to do in your spirit, now do i have to go start farming to be able to obey this leading? and also where the bible says to bring in your first increase, do i have to go do farming just to fulfill this, even when he has showed me that my purpose is no where close to farming, and neither is my profession. Could you just imagine Jesus in our time now, would he be wearing the robes of those times, and the sandals? no way, He would be wearing nice luvly fitted Suits or watever. now to my own understanding and what the holy spirit made me understand when he was teaching me about tithes, for the bible always referring to farming increases and not money or watever in those scriptures i would say the money that the people had, come fromn selling their farm produce, and if you check the history of those times farming was the major occupation, and even people wealth were not measured with money it was measured by the extent and size of their farmings and not their money, so that was wat their lives depended upon, so that was where their tithe was demanded from, so now agreed tithe is not compulspry, but if yuo wr to by anychance be led in your spirit to pay tithes, how would you pay it? go start farming? no harm meant, and please i was just joking. but seriously lets understand that the Holyspirit interpretes the scripture to everyone in different ways so dont lets just consider the logos but also the rhema. i know that somepple are just ignorant and so just turn the bible upside down but still lets not just conclude by what we read in the letter, but also consult the holy spirit to interprete to us that which he has written. also we should not just depend on what pastor say, but also to seek with God, revelations about his word.

@banni
no one is concluding the 6days as just 6 days and no one is concluding it as 6 million, its not the time line we are talking about, its the wonders of creation against the theory of evolution. and more like we just gave it conclusion, but you ca still raise it up.

@merge
yes it is wrong, you and i both know that,i've got a question for you; what of those who do not?. what do we do, how can we help them or do we condemn them to damnation just because they are ignorant of the thruth? so we need to understand that it is more than we are seeing, we need to spread the message as far as wecan, and for those who have made the mistakes, we have to open our arms to them and give them the encouragement and strength to bear the consequences of their actions and guide them by the word of God to help them have a new life.

hmm, now thats what i call a mature way of settling differences. I really wwant to give kudos to you guys for being matured enough to recognise and deal and manage each other differences.thumbs up!!!

The New Nigeria, that we have being talking about, how possible is it? For me i believe in this country, and i can boldly say that a New Nigeria is coming and it is here already and it is beginingto take its toll and effect on the economy. the Vision 2020 that our government are broadcasting about, even though i got a question for them that how many of them even understand the Vision they are talking about? but i do know that what they are doing whether they know it or not is they are paving the way for those coming to take their places, because they are moving out of those places.

Thank God you believe Miracles happen, but then what exactly do you call a miracle, i would not call something that is bound to happen naturally a miracle right. only sometihng that is not possible, something out of the ordinary. Miracles are not the everyday event you get to see as you walk down the street every morning. Miracles are things that happen in contrary to all reasoning and sensibility, miracles are things and events that has no business occuring as far as nature is concern or reason for that matter. What would you call the instant growth of arms on people without arms, or people who are born blind and instantly begin to see, at least you dont get to see that everyday, even science has not been able to prove or establish a theory on instant cell regenration, so how do yuo explain such events, that contradict nature, they are not even in bible times, they are happening in our present age. Miracles are truly senseless and impossible to human because it contradicts everything we know, that is exactly why it is called MIRACLES. A miracle, derived from the old Latin word miraculum meaning "something wonderful", is a striking interposition of divine intervention by a supernatural being in the universe by which the ordinary course and operation of Nature is overruled, suspended, or modified. So now Miracles are not even to be understood, cos it overrules nature, so if what anyone who is expecting a miracle is not contrary to nature, then we can as well say the pperson is not looking for a miracle, he is just looking for oppurtunity or watevea. You dont go in wild search looking for Miracles. i wont go into the issue of getting miracles or whateva right now, cos i can imagine that will bring up another issue on its own, and we have already digressed from the issue itself which is Does God really Speak to Human? and How? now all these is what we have been explaining that Yes He does, and it happens in various ways, in any way, and He can chose to do it any how he wants it. but you know what he does things thatlook foolish to us just to confound the wisdom and intelligence we claim to have, to show us that no matter our level and intelligencewe can not rule out his Supremacy, so every ones in a while he does something that contradicts what we know, then we begin to wonder about the truth of what we know, and then we begin to engage in arguements like this noe just to get back on our feet to intelligence. So now God can do anytihng. no matter how stupid, impossible, foolish, idiotic, crazy and wateva it might look to us.And besides if i may ask ' what really makes you think that something is impossible for God? is it because it is not possible with man? let me put it this way to you, You invented a robot, is it possible for that robot to outsmart you? or better still, you created a garden with fences around it for you sheep, so that they wont escape, now just because yoursheep are to dump to know that there is a gate to open and then escape, does that mean you also who created the fence and garden would be stupid enough not to know that YOU created a gateway out of the garden? exactly the same thing God created this Garden(NATURE) and put us in there, that does not mean he exist and is bound by the same fences that bouind us, He created the GARDEN(NATURE) and sop he know where the BACKGATE is. so he is not bound by our limitations.
aight. thats cool!!!

men looks like you guys have been doing a lot of talking since i was away!!!

Nwankwo
the mistake you are making is, looking for signs to believe, you want another great big hand to show up in the sky, and a thundrous voice to loudly speak and cause so manythings, but i tell you, you wont find, you want another water to be turned into wine, sorry, you would have to wait a long while, no one is looking for anybody to accept their belliefs, as a christian, i dont bother to trying to convince people to accept my belief, cos, only God himsdelf can open anybody's eyes to see his truth, scripture says, "the god of this world has blinded the people eyes, and closed their eyes. lest they ear and see the truth and be saved." also it says "no one can of himself come to the light except God deaws them to himself" so dont worry i am not trying to convince you of my belief cos i dont expect you to even be able to comprehend it, all i am doing is to inform you, which you can decide to ignore easily or accet, but all the same. IT IS WELL EVEN IN THE WELL!!!

@Kola
thanks for that post. one thing you have to understand Nwankwo is that when oyu are dealing with God you have to drop everything you call wisdom and reasoning, because it does not even measure up to God foolishness,(thats if God is FOOLISH anyway) but you have to understand that no matter your reasoning God is not bound by our boundaries and limitation, he exist outside time, he can do anything he wants. you are complaining about the talking Donkey, Jesus said if man will for a second stop praising God, immediately the stones will cryout praises and worship him, so you haven't even seen anything yet. stop trying to analyse God with your brain, how can a two yrs old boy be trying to correct a professor of english on the alphabets. its unthinkably stupid/.

@Nwankwo
you need to understand that God himself breaks the laaws he himself created, he broke the law of sexual reproduction, with the birth of Jesus, he broke the law of gravity with Jesus, He broke the law of season with Elijah, and so on so i think you should rethink what you say, when you say it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to undo what he did/

@ Elizabetha
and besides the Word of God which you are talking about goes in two dimensions, Logos: the written word and Rhema: the Spoken Word, which He ministers to you directly in your Heart.

@JFK
hmmm, is that supposed to be a compliment or otherwise!!! anyway dont take it personal or watever its my opinion and you can raise yours.

hmmm,

one thing is ask people, when they ask me if God speaks to me? obviously they tell me they dont hear God speak to them, i ask them "Do you hear the devil?"at the end of it all we come to find out that everyone hears the devils, but sadly very few hear God. evryone hears the devil, telling them to do this or that, nudging them towards that girl to rape her, or more simpler telling them to just tale a bite out of the meat or take a little of the money. the devil speak to our minds, and we hear him constantly and we try to resists his temtations as christians, but we fail to hear God's encouragements that he speaks to our heart and to hear is voice telling us what to do, where to go, how to act. Soi'll tell you if you can hear the Devil, then you can hear God, because the will both Speak into your Heart, but it depends on you, who yuo decide to listen to. we are ususally so engrossed trying not to hear the devil we fail to realise that God is speaking and wants us to listen to him, so since we dont hear him we conclude he is not talking. but he is talking we are the ones who usually fail to listen toi him. Just because you cant hear him does not mean he is not talking, just because you cant see him does not mean he is not there.

sorry bout that, just read it and got a little more understanding of yuor points. but if i may ask a question Scriptural or not is it wrong? pastor use of it or watever he does with it. You paying tithe, to me i dont know what happens in other churches but i will say tithe is more of a personal issue. do it or not no one will arrest you. if a pastor is now to come arras a member for not paying tithe;/o\; now that i would really really shout and critise about. Whether it is required of us as christians or not, people do it and get a harvest of it, does that mean they have sinned just because "they did  what is not required of us as christian"? i pay tithes not because some pastor ask me to, but simply because of th understanding i have about it. Tithe to me is a way of telling God, that "hey this thing i'm earning would not have been possible if you had not helped me, so here is your share" even at times i give more than my tithes cos i feel God worths it. so pator or wateva its about what you see about it. some peopl do things just because 'Pastor said so'. but dont you think the one thing that supports each ones believe is really their perspective of it. i have read you post and i see you have a point, but i will tell you that for me your points even as valid as rthey are can not do anything to waver my testimony about tithes in my life. Now, i would say that when its is being fprced, and the people are pressured to do it then something is going wrong somewhere. but tithe, biblical or not perspective defines what it looks like to each person. we have all had our experiences and personal revelations about the same issue, and God is not a author of confusion so i do believe that on this issue you are right and i am right, simply because we are looking aty the same thing from different angles.  Yes i agree some pastors decieve their congregation with it, just to enrich their pockets, but still i wat eveer you do, the person you are doing it to is wha determines if yuo will get a result or not The Pastor or God himself.

Kunle:
in respect to what you just said, i would say i agree, cos i have seen situations where the pastor becomes God to the congregation, he is untouchable, unapproachable. God is to remain God, a pastor is only there to be a person who takes responsibility for the rest, not an intermidiary between God and the people. in fact i would put it as this, the Leadership of the pator is simply related to the Leading Sheep, cos the pastor himself is another sheep in God's flock so wats makes him a shepherd ifg he is also a sheep. to me, a pastor words and vision or watever about a person should only be a confirmation of what God has told you personally, oyu dont just wake up and the pastor comes to tell you this is your Husband or wife and you just go ahead and marry the person. oyu have to h ear God's word about the situation yourself before doing anything or making any decision. Never let your Pastors words overrule God's word on your life cos your pastor is also a human being and can make mistakes.