Kobojunkie:
The words of Jesus Christ, God's Law, is recorded in the Gospels, not in the epistles where Paul himself, on several occasions reminded you of this by his own submissions,but you conveniently refuse to accept his admissions...

Hear Paul:

NKJV Ga 1:11-12: "¹¹ But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. ¹² For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Nobody taught Paul what he preached and taught but Jesus himself by his Spirit, and yet you claim the words of Jesus aren't recorded in the epistles!

In his letter to the Corinthians you are referring to, see what he said also:

NKJV 1Co 11:23-24: "²³ For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; ²⁴ and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”"

Paul wasn't part of the original apostles who ate the Lord's supper! The way he "received it from the Lord" was by revelation! Jesus even taught him about the Lord's supper himself!

And now someone is undermining his revelation from God just because he said this:

NKJV 1Co 7:25,40: "²⁵ Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. … ⁴⁰ But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment— and I think I also have the Spirit of God."

Paul merely said he didn't receive this part by revelation from Jesus as he did the rest of what he teaches; yet you fail to notice that even then he said he was giving it by the Spirit of God!

See how another version puts it:

NLT 1Co 7:40 ...and I think I am giving you counsel from God’s Spirit when I say this.

So even though he didn't have a revelation from God same as others here, that didn't stop him from giving teaching by the Holy Spirit too!
The only difference being that he was merely speaking as a man with the Holy Spirit like every other believer and not an apostle! How do I mean?

There are requirements to be called an apostle. One of them is that you must see Jesus!:

NKJV 1Co 9:1: "¹ Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?"

NKJV 1Co 15:3-4,7-8: "³ For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, ⁴ and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, … ⁷ After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. ⁸ Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time."

Of course not every believer will see Jesus! But to be an apostle, one MUST! Paul did, and also received special revelation from him in a way a normal believer doesn't, as part of his calling to be an apostle! The one time Paul said he was saying something which wasn't by revelation as he received all his other teachings, he emphasized that it was still through God's Spirit yet! He clearly said that did he not??! The only diff was that he was talking, not as "Paul the apostle" with special revelation from God, but as "Paul the Christian" with the Holy Spirit just like any other believer! He said "he too had the Spirit of God" the same way any other believer did, and was giving counsel from him! Yes not by special revelation, but still from the Spirit of God! He clarified this at the end!

Steep:

He/she is confused.

I mean! Loool...

What is surprising is that until now she cannot see this! When you have to throw away common sense and refuse to answer something so simple, that on every other day she can answer right from her sleep, without even thinking, but all of a sudden "miraculously" cannot because it'll show her doctrine for the sham that it is, then she should throw away that doctrine!

I've tried my best. This is obvious to everyone else in the whole world who can see this but her. She's hell bent on sticking to something that defies simple reasoning from scriptures hence can't be helped

Nairalanders comman see something o
I asked someone said he has MUCH MORE to say but cannot say it yet cos they can't understand. I now asked a very simple English question that someone just learning English should be able to answer:

"Does it mean this person is finished with all they have to say?"

Dasall o

See how somebody is sweating to answer what should be a very simple question on any other normal day!

"Parambulating" all over, simple English question!

Can anybody else help me with a simple answer to what this very simple question will normally be under any other circumstances?

Kobojunkie:
I already more than addressed them.

In order words, you CANNOT, even if your life depended on it, answer simple questions like "what did Jesus mean by saying he has much more to say. In simple English if someone has MUCH MORE to say but can't say it yet, does it mean what he has to say is finished?"

This one is even a rhetorical question. One a normal day, with simple English, we know what this means. In SSCE or JAMB, we know what this means. But suddenly common sense reasoning is lost so as to defend one's doctrine at all cost. You cannot give simple English answer to simple English question again all of a sudden, simple English reasoning is lost on you

And you cannot see that this is a problem, even if your life depended on it!

Smh

Kobojunkie:
My bad.... was trying to do eat and do laundry and type at the same time..

I meant your questions are based on assumptions that contradict Jesus Christ.

Give the assumptions, and answer the questions! After all those questions are straight from the words of Jesus Christ! How hard can it be!

What you're doing is called "dogmatic" reasoning. Inability to face/confront new facts that directly oppose what you believe, but sticking to them anyways. You will NEVER be able to address them even if your life depended on it, but you'll keep repeating things that cannot confront those facts regardless
What a wonderful sight!

She say question make assumptions
How can questions make assumption?
Oya answer the question while giving the assumption the "question makes" na, no.
Lol!
And you cannot see that this is a problem. Persist in your ways jare

Na wa ooo! See the way you're "parambulating" rather than answer two very cheap questions!

Questions are the easiest way to show ppl the error of their ways! In order words, if you cannot safely, in good conscience, answer two very simple questions, how can you be confident in what you believe such that it cannot address things as simple as these!

You know why you won't answer those questions? Because those words of Jesus, taken literally for what they say, directly contradict everything you keep saying! You simply CANNOT answer them without shooting yourself in foot, yet you will persist regardless!

Jesus Christ, "God's truth", himself is saying things that stand in direct contrast to your beliefs. Rather than confront this, you will run everywhere, anywhere, here and there, ANYTHING but address what Jesus very plainly said. You will NEVER be able to look Jesus' words in the eyes and directly respond to them without seeing the folly of what it is you're saying, but you'll persist anyways.

Suit yourself.

Cheers!

Kobojunkie:
Your questions make a lot of assumptions that directly contradict Jesus Christ's own teachings. For this very reason, I keep leading you back to understanding the place Jesus Christ aka God Law in the Kingdom of God occupies where it concerns God's Truth and Gospel.

Jesus Christ gave His followers about 100 commandments to live by - continuous submission and obedience. He said those who love Him are those who obey His commandments. Obviously, what this means is that no follower of Jesus Christ would teach any idea that contradicts Jesus Christ in any way of form. Not even God's own Holy Spirit, whose very job is to cause His own to carefully obey His commandments - Ezekiel 36 vs 27 - , would contradict God's own Truth.

I hear you. Answer my questions though. Very simple questions, just two in number. That's all i ask, then we take it up from there

Kobojunkie:
Again,....The words of Jesus Christ, God's Law, is recorded in the Gospels, not in the epistles where Paul himself, on several occasions reminded you of this by his own submissions,but you conveniently refuse to accept his admissions, anything to continue avoiding the very Truth of God Himself

That you would rather believe God Himself, Truth personified, came down to earth yet gave an unfinished law only to then have men(liars by nature) who you claim to be filled with the holy spirit give you what you call greater truths than what God handed you while He was on earth speaks volumes of where your heart belongs. You trust doesn't seem to be in God at all but in the very words of men which God warned you vehemently against placing above His.

---

When that which is stated by men contradict the very declaration of Jesus Christ Himself, a problem arises called a contradiction and God Himself gave law as to how such contradictions ought to be resolved. If God's law is ignored then how can the end be of God?

Kobojunkie:
The words of Jesus Christ, God's Law, is recorded in the Gospels, not in the epistles where Paul himself, on several occasions reminded you of this by his own submissions,but you conveniently refuse to accept his admissions, anything to continue avoiding the very Truth of God Himself

That you would rather believe God Himself, Truth personified, came down to earth yet gave an unfinished law only to then have men(liars by nature) who you claim to be filled with the holy spirit give you what you call greater truths than what God handed you while He was on earth speaks volumes of where your heart belongs. You trust doesn't seem to be in God at all but in the very words of men which God warned you vehemently against placing above His.

1. When Jesus said to his apostles "I have very much to tell you but you can't yet understand them now", what did this mean? That his teaching was

A) completely finished

B) unfinished

2. How did Jesus solve the problem of them not being able to understand the "very much" that he had left to tell them?

Let's start from there. I await your honest and scriptural response

Kobojunkie:


Why do you ignore the Words of Jesus Christ

I can ask the same of you. Why do you ignore the words of Jesus Christ as recorded in the epistles? The greater truths he sent his Holy Spirit to teach to the church, now in a position to understand deeper truths?

This is true, but actually scriptural mediation goes one step further:

NKJV Jos 1:8: "⁸ This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night..."

"Meditation" means muttering God's word with your mouth! That's why that scripture says that. It is what some call "confession" which is really speaking God's word over and over again until it takes root in your spirit

Kobojunkie honestly i struggle to see why you love to argue with what's written clearly. It seems to be a habit of yours, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

John 16:12-13 CEV 12 I have much more to say to you, but right now it would be more than you could understand. 13 The Spirit shows what is true and will come and guide you into the full truth. The Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He will tell you only what he has heard from me

1) In Jesus very plain words, could the apostles understand what other things Jesus wanted to tell them, or Jesus was just a plain liar? Was it only a little more Jesus had to tell them or much more??

2) If Jesus had MUCH MORE to tell them, what happens to the rest of his teaching? Does it automatically become "finished" once Jesus goes to the cross and says "it is finished" like you seem to have claimed, or does Jesus find another way to teach them those things?

3) If Jesus found another way to teach them, what way was was this, was it not through the Holy Spirit WHO CAME TO TEACH THEM AFTER IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY FINISHED like you claimed?

scripture :

John 14:26 CEV But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place. The Spirit will (number 1) teach you everything and(number 2) will remind you of what I said while I was with you.

4) You seem to think that the Holy Spirit taking from Jesus to teach to them was him reminding them of what Jesus had ALREADY SAID before while on earth, since "everything was finished". So now look at scripture, the very words of the Lord Jesus Christ again. Did Jesus indicate that the Holy Spirit "teaching them all things" was a very different thing from him reminding them of the things Jesus ALREADY TAUGHT EARLIER, or not? "Teaching them things" and "reminding them what Jesus taught" are they the same?

5) If they're not the same, and "teaching them all things" is a very different thing than "reminding them of Jesus teaching" which Jesus already taught them, doesn't this then mean that what the Holy Spirit will teach them is BRAND NEW, WHAT JESUS NEVER SAID BEFORE (or else it'll really be him reminding them again what was already said, which we can see is not the case?)

6) This brand new teaching the Holy Spirit will teach them that Jesus never taught before, aren't they as much the words of Jesus or not since he clearly said the Holy Spirit took it from Jesus AFTER THE SO-CALLED "IT IS FINISHED"!

7) Since the epistles contain those brand new teachings, from Jesus through the Holy Spirit, with the Holy Spirit telling them Jesus new words that Jesus couldn't teach them on earth, and since they're now in a position to understand them being more mature, on what basis do you reject JESUS OWN WORDS TAUGHT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT! Are these of not more relevance than what Jesus taught on earth, since they are taught to those more mature and in a position to now understand greater truths?

I'm watching closely to see if you will again argue with the words of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, or you'll like a child simply accept them for what they're saying, though they may contradict what you felt you already knew. Are you humble enough to accept God's word, or too big to take correction from it, blindly sticking to your beliefs against clear scripture, looking for new ways to argue against Jesus Christ?

We shall see...

Kobojunkie:
I am aware of what Jesus Christ said in John 16 vs 12 - 14. However, what I find interesting is how you all gloss over the highlighted part of what Jesus Christ said.

On the contrary, that highlighted part is the reason I say what I say; that the epistles contain the words of Jesus, because the Holy Spirit took from what Jesus would have taught them that they couldn't understand at the time to tell the apostles

Kobojunkie:
So if Jesus Christ is who He claims to be, God's Covenant and agreement signed and sealed - declared finished on the cross - Matthew 26 vs 28 - 30 - then doesn't that mean it it against God for any man to add , change or remove doctrines and rules from the Truth of God as established by Jesus Christ?

I'm not understanding. So because Jesus said "it is finished" therefore even his teaching or doctrine is finished too with no more truth to be taught? Wow! This is a gross misunderstanding and misapplication of scripture! Jesus DID NOT SAY DOCTRINE IS FINISHED! In fact, He specifically said doctrine IS NOT FINISHED!. He specifically said he will send the Holy Spirit TO ADD TO WHAT HE TAUGHT THEM, BECAUSE HE COULDN'T TEACH IT ALL since they at the time could not understand! Or did you not read that in the scripture I sent, the very words of Jesus HIMSELF!

NKJV Joh 16:12-14: "¹² “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. ¹³ However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak... ¹⁴ He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you."

If they couldn't bear them at that time, but later when the Holy Spirit came he'll tell them what Jesus couldn't, doesn't that indicate to you NEW doctrine that Jesus couldn't teach them at the time? You stretch this "it is finished" WAY TOO FAR! It is YOU who is right now negating Jesus' own words that The Holy Spirit was to add further doctrine he himself couldn't teach! Or you truly cannot see that Jesus himself taught this? This is what i meant by arguing with what is clearly written. If you will even argue argue with the words of Jesus, I can't help you there!

The work of redemption is what is finished! Not teaching of doctrine. Jesus, very very clearly, declared it is UNFINISHED! Will you argue with the Lord and savior that by force that must be finished??

For this reason Jesus gave apostles, prophets, teachers, etc, to teach doctrine in addition to what he taught but couldn't finish! The teaching of doctrine WAS NOT FINISHED, don't argue with what Jesus himself very clearly said!

Kobojunkie:
As I already explained before, I don't believe in scripture. Instead I believe in the Word of God, God's Truth and Law in the Kingdom of God.

Cheers then!

You will do well to mind these words:

Jesus plainly stated he had more to say but couldn't say them because they won't understand them, and said the Holy Spirit will come and teach them those things he wanted to say, taking from Jesus and giving to them whatever he hears from Jesus.

NKJV Joh 16:12-14: "¹² “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. ¹³ However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak...¹⁴ He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.""

Therefore the epistles contain the words of Jesus too, by the Holy Spirit, which is even higher than what Jesus himself taught because the apostles didn't at the time have the ability to understand all things he'll have taught, which the Spirit now taught!

NKJV 1Co 2:6-7,13: "⁶ However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. ⁷ But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, … ¹³ These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

The epistles are for the MATURE! Unlike in the gospels when they were NOT mature and couldn't bear to learn it all! In words which the Holy Spirit teaches which they then teach in the epistles! In what he, the Holy Spirit, hears from Jesus!

Therefore they are more relevant to the church. They are also direct letters written to the church.

Kobojunkie:
.You don't have the energy to do that yet you are quick to assume...,

Not assuming. I can do it with way too much typing. No energy to do that. You'll again argue with scripture. I can see it, but cannot expend energy teaching fundamentals again here!

Too much energy required. I can't. Cheers

Kobojunkie:
Can you prove that any of what I have stated so far is Antichrist aka against the very Truth of God Himself or do you simply conclude instead that what I say is against what is written simply because it doesn't align with the conclusions in your mind there?

Everything you have stated does not even agree with Jesus Christ Himself, and in scripture is found written Even the Words of Satan along with the doctrines and traditions of men which Jesus Christ said were all lies meant to deceive you away from God's Truth , that which was declared by Jesus Christ Himself. So telling me something is written in scripture is not enough to verify it as Truth. Instead it is that which aligns with the Word of God that is first and foremost God's Truth.

Honestly, some things, such as righteousness, are too fundamental that they'll require way too much energy to begin discussing, and that with someone who doesn't accept all scripture as truth, but will argue against scripture, stating that the epistles are less than the words of Jesus for some reason. This of course is false. Jesus plainly stated he had more to say but couldn't say them because they won't understand them, and said the Holy Spirit will come and teach them those things he wanted to say, taking from Jesus and giving to them whatever he hears from Jesus. Therefore the epistles contain the words of Jesus too, by the Holy Spirit, which is even higher than what Jesus himself taught because the apostles didn't at the time have the ability to understand all things he'll have taught, which the Spirit now taught! Therefore they are more relevant to the church. They are also direct letters written to the church. Plus, all scripture is inspired of God!

I simply don't have the energy to begin at a place like this when even fundamentals like acceptance of all scripture as God's word, complementing each other, as well as understanding the basic fundamentals of how righteousness works isn't in place. I can't..

Cheers

kobojunkie it's not that i didn't wish to respond to you, battery was low and i got busy. But tbh discussing with you can be quite tiring. You have a habit of arguing against what is clearly written in scripture, asking "how can that be true".

Newsflash: it is scripture! by very definition it is true! Why not just accept it? But not you. You'll still argue against what has been quoted to be clearly written. Not a good habit for one who wants to grow in God's word...

I'll be back

Kobojunkie:

2. Well, according to Jesus Christ, Sonship is attained only by those who continuously submit and obey Him and with about 100 commandments to Know, nothing of that sounds like a Now thing.

Lol. And the scriptures I gave are fake? How do you reconcile that they are speaking of now?

Kobojunkie:
1. Why would Jesus Christ need to do any of that, this in addition to what He has already done over 2000 years ago?,

At this point it's you arguing against scriptures. I tried to explain how and why, but ultimately it comes down to whether you're willing to accept what is clearly written like a child. If you disagree, you disagree with scripture in the end

Kobojunkie:
2. What scriptures say that? Jesus Christ, the man Himself, declared on the cross that it is finished, are you insinuating He still had more work to do as far as man's redemption is concerned?,

Wait, which scriptures say that Christ has present day ministry today? lol... You didn't see that he has a continuing priesthood even now? The work of redemption is finished, yes. But that is not all he even came for. He came to destroy the works of the devil, and he's not yet done. The last enemy will be death (1 Cor 15)

Kobojunkie:
3. I don't understand. He said He would judge us by God's standard of righteousness - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46?

Well, read again:

NKJV Ro 2:5-11: "⁵ But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, ⁶ who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: ⁷ eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; ⁸ but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness— indignation and wrath, ⁹ tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; ¹⁰ but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. ¹¹ For there is no partiality with God."

God will judge the world ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS! See how he judged those who persisted in DOING GOOD and those who DID EVIL. It was what they DID! You see it over and over again even in revelations, judging according to their WORKS!

People don't understand how the sacrifice of Jesus works. Not sure i can fully explain here. What happens is a substitution of WORKS! The WORKS of Jesus become imputed to you as though that's what you did, God judges that, and you are saved. Doesn't mean it's no longer works he judges, scripture after scripture after scripture tells us Jesus judges according to our WORKS!

And the scripture says he judges AS THE SON OF MAN. I didn't say this, was merely trying to help ur understanding. But again if you disagree, it's really scripture you're disagreeing with at this point

Kobojunkie:
1. But according to God, and Jesus Christ, we are instead born sons or men. We only become Sons of God only after we are set free from slavery to sin - John 8 vs 31 - 35.

Can you clarify what point in time this refers to? let's start from there...

Kobojunkie:

3. Where in scripture are you referring to?

NKJV Ga 3:26: "²⁶ For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

NKJV Ga 4:6: "⁶ And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”"

This refers to present day sonship. Sons of God NOW

Jesus won't remain that way for all eternity though. When that changes, I'll clarify in my coming write-up on Trinity

He can say to the Father, "look i understand that myself. I am just as him. Have mercy on him". This is very valid as he is man too. But if he stopped being man, it'll be on the basis that he was once like us?

Anyways the scripture says he does this as MAN. Only this way does he fulfill his ministry today.

And you know what? That's also how he'll judge the world. As man! As one perfect one who has been there and seen all, and triumphed over it all!

NKJV Joh 5:27: "²⁷ and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man."

Kobojunkie:
I am trying to understand what being a man and, according to you, remaining a man even to thiz day has to do with Jesus Christ being a mediator or a high priest in God's New Covenant.

He didn't come to make us men but instead to make us Sons of God so what has that got to do with remaining a man to this day?

You do realize we will remain human still? with glorified bodies just like Jesus? We won't change to become something else. We ARE sons of God today, and are men. The only thing that would change is our glorified bodies, but still man.

Jesus too is the same. With his glorified human body. He remains man till today.

According to scripture, only MAN can be priest, only he can represent and stand for man before God. Not an angel, not a spirit. MAN! No-one else can... Jesus can only represent man as MAN before God!

Kobojunkie:
So Jesus Christ is stil offering sacrifices for sin even to this day, is what you are insinuating? ,

I'm certain i didn't say so. But he is to be a priest FOREVER after the order of Melchizedek. Why do you think that was necessary? The book of Hebrews made sure to emphasize that Jesus is a high priest FOREVER, and he is one TODAY, having a continuing ministry, although he offered sacrifice for sin ONCE to perfect the saints forever.

NKJV Heb 4:14-16: "¹⁴ Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. ¹⁵ For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. ¹⁶ Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."

This refers to the PRESENT DAY MINISTRY of Jesus as high priest, one by which we can come boldly to the throne of grace and obtain mercy because we have such a one as high priest! One who can intercede for us, having perfected us forever by his one sacrifice

NKJV Heb 7:23-25: "²³ Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. ²⁴ But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. ²⁵ Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."

Ever8090:
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There are many platforms that convert airtime to cash. Google that query, and choose what works best for you. Don't forget to look for reviews too to weed out potential problematic ones

In that Daniel's vision where is Jesus? Since he isn't the one "like a son of man" who was given authority within the vision?

In a thread I'll show that Jesus is the ancient of days IN THAT VISION (pls I know what I typed o, i didn't say somewhere else). I'll show "trinity" by primarily quoting from the New World Translation of JWs. Pls look out for that one then.

Cheers!

HedwigesMaduro:


Maybe you didn't realise He wasn't "fully man" when He was calling God Almighty "My God" (about 3 times) in Revelation chapter 3. Or when in the Visions of Daniel He was brought before the Ancient of Days (God Almighty). I'd love some mental gymnastics on this.

Did you really read my response first? I said Jesus retained his humanity till today! I said, and i quote:

"Even now he still retains human nature, albeit as a resurrected man (same as all who would be resurrected to have glorified bodies), so that he can yet carry out his priestly duties and the rest of what he came as man to do."

NKJV 1Ti 2:5: "⁵ For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,"

He is the man Jesus as mediator today!

NKJV Heb 2:14,17: "¹⁴ Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, … ¹⁷ Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest..."

NKJV Heb 5:1-2: "¹ For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins. ² He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness."

Heb 8:4 NWT If, now, he were upon earth, he would not be a priest, there being [men] who offer the gifts according to the Law,

Only as a man can he be high priest! And only in heaven for that matter, not on earth!

One more time, Jesus retains his human nature in heaven as a resurrected man same as all who will receive glorified bodies so that he can fulfill his ministry today!

As for Daniel's vision, why not be satisfied with the interpretation given alongside the same vision?! Why bring your own interpretation? Are you unhappy because it didn't say what you'll rather it says?

Here's the vision:

Dan 7:2-7,9,10,13,14 NWT 2 Daniel was speaking up and saying: "I happened to be beholding in my visions during the night, and, see there! the four winds of the heavens were stirring up the vast sea. 3 And four huge beasts were coming up out of the sea, each one being different from the others. 4 "The first one was like a lion... 5 "And, see there! another beast, a second one, it being like a bear... 6 "After this I kept on beholding, and, see there! another {\cf15\I [beast]}, one like a leopard... 7 "After this I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! a fourth beast, fearsome and terrible and unusually strong... 9 "I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the Ancient of Days sat down... 10 The Court took its seat, and there were books that were opened. 13 "I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.

Summary of the vision:

* four beasts, one "like a son of man" (In contrast to the beasts)

* The ancient of days sits with a court that then sits

* the one "like a son of man" is given indefinitely lasting rulership, the kingdom won't be brought to ruin.

Now to the interpretation given within SCRIPTURE ITSELF:

Dan 7:16-18 NWT 16 I went up close to one of those who were standing, that I might request from him reliable information on all this. And he said to me, as he went on to make known to me the very interpretation of the matters, 17 "'As for these huge beasts, because they are four, there are four kings that will stand up from the earth. 18 But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon times indefinite.'

Such a simple explanation! The four beasts are four kings of the earth. the one "like a son of man" stands for the holy ones of the Supreme one who will receive the Kingdom for times indefinite!

Dan 7:22 NWT until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.

Dan 7:26-27 NWT 26 And the Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annihilate [him] and to destroy [him] totally. 27 "'And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.'

According to the interpretation already given in scripture, the one "like a son of man" stands for the holy ones of the Supreme one. They are the ones given authority after the court sits before the ancient of days! Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom and all rulership will serve and obey them! That person IS NOT Jesus... unless you really really want your own interpretation instead?

HedwigesMaduro:


So God the Father is the God of God the Son. Is God the Son also the God of God the Father?

Sigh.. The very op dealt with all this in the first post! Wonder if you even read it at all!

NO, the Son CANNOT be God of the Father because the Father did not become, and is not MAN!

Jesus became FULLY MAN!

As man he slept even though he never did prior to being man. He felt hunger, he felt anguish, he used the toilet even. Again, he became FULLY MAN! He grew in wisdom as man tho the scriptures say he is the wisdom of God and that all treasures of wisdom and knowledge is fully in him! As man he had to submit to Joseph and Mary... In their wildest dreams they'll never have sought submission from, or dared to think of sending Jesus on any errand, before he became man!

Again, HE BECAME MAN! FULLY MAN!

Why is this so hard to grasp??

As a man he'll submit to the Father as God! When he had to submit to Joseph and Mary; why would this be too great a deal!

Jesus became MAN!

As man his God would also be the Father! No he cannot also be the Father's God as he wasn't the one who became man!

I really hope it's all clear now!

Even now he still retains human nature, albeit as a resurrected man (same as all who would be resurrected to have glorified bodies), so that he can yet carry out his priestly duties and the rest of what he came as man to do.

exCHRISTIAN:
Why didn't the imaginery christ protect the lady

Is he absent? Or doesn't exist? Or cant fulfill His promise to protect his followers? Or is the bbbile lyi*g as it used to do?
Thessalonians 3:3

You quoted 1 Thessalonians 3:3 where it says Christians were appointed to this. That persecution for Jesus name is a part and parcel of being Christian. Yet in stark irony ask this question!

exCHRISTIAN:
I left Xtianity because I realized it's rubbish.
What do yo expect from a god that was born by a WOMAN and ended, murdered on Cross? Didn't help himself also

Well not sure you knew. This was the very purpose of his coming. You mean, throw purpose away, save himself regardless? Were you just trying to be funny, or this actually made sense to you?

exCHRISTIAN:
The entitled punishment for blasphemy in Xtianity as I was forced study by my parents back then is death !!!

anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.
Leviticus 24:16

Deborah killers used this verse to kill her the way the verse instruct, I think they own a copy of christ papers, bible is full of evil to its followers.

Way too many things are wrong with this that it's tiring. But I'll try:

Firstly, you claim a punishment for blasphemy in CHRISTIANITY. You said that and then went on to quote instructions given to JUDAISERS. Mischief much or just....

I don't even have the strength. Sigh...

Secondly, You even took the verse out of context! Why not quote it all!

NKJV Le 24:10-13,16: "¹⁰ Now the son of an Israelite woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel; and this Israelite woman’s son and a man of Israel fought each other in the camp. ¹¹ And the Israelite woman’s son blasphemed the name of the LORD and cursed; and so they brought him to Moses. (His mother’s name was Shelomith the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan.) ¹² Then they put him in custody, that the mind of the LORD might be shown to them. ¹³ And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, … ¹⁶ And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall certainly stone him, the stranger as well as him who is born in the land. When he blasphemes the name of the LORD, he shall be put to death."

This "stranger" was so-called because of his Egyptian father. You know, like they were fresh from Egypt where they were taken as slaves. This is why you don't see his Egyptian father there: Now the mother is free! In reality this "stranger" isn't quite a stranger in strict terms. He lived amongst Israel as part of them. This is unlike a bona fide stranger, who just visits and doesn't even practise your religion! No such rule exists for such a person, cos he CANNOT be held to your standards with what he doesn't believe in!

See, this is waaay different than Deborah's case! A person who doesn't worship your God CANNOT blaspheme him!!

Having said this, this is NOT to Christians but to Jews as was permitted because of the covenant and time they were under. No such thing for a Christian.