I've never seen any pastor forced his hand into somebody's pocket or account to get money for tithe. You can only be preached to to pay your tithe. It's your interest whether to pay or not. Afterall, the Ten Commandment stated what we should do and not do, but we still go against them, not having any fear for God's punishment, how much less pastor's preachings about tithe? Wait a bit, do you know that most churches pay salaries to full-time pastors and other workers of the church. They also visit the less-privileged for help? Where do these monies come from?

Come to think of it, How much is the 10% or more or less you're crying for? Is it up to the amount you spend for just an outing with a girl-friend or other guys? Whether you pay tithe or not, God remains God, and the work of God must go forward. Not paying a tithe cannever stop the church from preaching the Good News.

People that believed in tithing should go ahead and tithe while the people that never believed or how they believe should go ahead and do so.

I'll always pay my tithe.

@I-fy,

I-fy:

I've never seen any pastor forced his hand into somebody's pocket or account to get money for tithe. You can only be preached to to pay your tithe. It's your interest whether to pay or not. Afterall, the Ten Commandment stated what we should do and not do, but we still go against them, not having any fear for God's punishment, how much less pastor's preachings about tithe? Wait a bit, do you know that most churches pay salaries to full-time pastors and other workers of the church. They also visit the less-privileged for help? Where do these monies come from?

Come to think of it, How much is the 10% or more or less you're crying for? Is it up to the amount you spend for just an outing with a girl-friend or other guys? Whether you pay tithe or not, God remains God, and the work of God must go forward. Not paying a tithe cannever stop the church from preaching the Good News.

People that believed in tithing should go ahead and tithe while the people that never believed or how they believe should go ahead and do so.

I'll always pay my tithe.

Thank you, simply well said.

However, I am beginning to understand what I never understood before. So many people especially in the Nigerian case are convinced that people are being forced to pay tithes - I believe that is true, and I have experienced it a few times. The one thing that you and I may be fortunate on is that we may be in places of fellowship where things are not as deplorable as in the Nigerian scenario. Let's take that into consideration as well. But it is not only in Nigeria that this case is observed - there are many other places where these things happen.

On the whole, I agree with you: one should do as they are led by the Spirit of God to do in this matter. It is a conviction of the heart. Like you, I shall give my tithes for the grace of fellowshipping where pastors are very open and accountable.

i say some pastors will go the extra lenght to call you ROBBER if you should refused to give tithe,and the way they will put it,if you dont have strong mind,they will make it look assive you have committed an abomination. wat i am saying is that is because of tithe thats why we have churches at every 1kilometer,if this very tithe is cancelled today most of them will go bankcrupt.

pilgrim.1:


However, I am beginning to understand what I never understood before.

Thank God for this revelation!

pilgrim.1:


So many people especially in the Nigerian case are convinced that people are being forced to pay tithes - I believe that is true, and I have experienced it a few times.
The one thing that you and I may be fortunate on is that we may be in places of fellowship where things are not as deplorable as in the Nigerian scenario.

segyemaro:

i say some pastors will go the extra lenght to call you ROBBER if you should refused to give tithe,and the way they will put it,if you don't have strong mind,they will make it look assive you have committed an abomination.

Pilgrim.1, do you see any similarity in the above two quotes?
What would you call any (wo)man engaged in such "deplorable" things
Would you call him a Christian talk less of a pastor?
And these, my dear sister is what we have been saying in the past few pages of back and forth since KunleOshob opened up on the "abuse" by church ( ) leaders of this deplorable thing.

@anonimi,

anonimi:

Thank God for this revelation!

Pilgrim.1, do you see any similarity in the above two quotes?
- - -

And these, my dear sister is what we have been saying in the past few pages of back and forth since KunleOshob opened up on the "abuse" by church ( ) leaders of this deplorable thing.

Please understand something crucial here. The question of tithes is arguable either way - for or against. Everyone arguing that subject has their own convictions; and what KunleOshob has been arguing is inconsistent. First, he argues against tithes, and then later says it is perfectly okay to give tithes.

However, what you were quoting from mine should not be misunderstood as if i did not understand the subject of tithes all this while, or what was involved in the way many people argue it. Many people who argue this subject on Nairaland do so on the limited assumption of the Nigerian scenario - that was what I had not taken into consideration, and that was why my statement that I am beginning to understand that I never understood before. I have studied this subject extensively in many places outside Nigeria; and if you took the time to do so, you would see why people should not generalise to make the Nigerian situation the standard reaction for Christians all over the world.

anonimi:

What would you call any (wo)man engaged in such "deplorable" things
Would you call him a Christian talk less of a pastor?

The question of tithes is not sufficient reasons for me to question anyone's relationship as a Christian. If one has to question whether someone was a "Christian" on this subject, there are many cases to apply the same rule to question those who oppose tithes with very heretical assertions. I have already shown a case which you posted from Yomisays where he got most of his ideas to castigate Pastor Adegboye. How could someone be asserting that anyone who gave tithes was "going down the road to hell" just because the opposer is against tithing? Yet, I never question whether that person was a Christian for making such a deplorable statement! Let us not get too passionate about something and then make very fallable assertions - and that is why I never question whether someone is a Christian just because of tithes.

On the question of deplorable things, open a thread on that and I shall meet you there. I'm not given to using this subject of tithe to castigate anybody as to question whether they are Christian or not. You cannot refer to tithe as "deplorable", and I don't see why you should dribble that in here as an extension to begin calling people any names as if tithes in itself is "deplorable".

Regards.

segyemaro:

i say some pastors will go the extra lenght to call you ROBBER if you should refused to give tithe,and the way they will put it,if you don't have strong mind,they will make it look assive you have committed an abomination.

That is only one side of the story. On the other side, have you considered that if you give tithes, some pastors who are against it will openly pronounced judgement on you and sentence you to HELL! Just for giving tithes, not because you did not give tithes! If you think I am joking, here's just one example:

This guy believes that if you give tithes, you will "lose your salvation and start down the road to hell".

Now, this is an example of someone who is against tithes. Just like some people will harrass you to pay tithes and say you're under a curse if you don't pay tithes, so this example typifies so many European and American pastors that argue that if you pay tithes you will lose your salvation and go straight to hell. He goes further to say:

"I have warned you of the danger in observing the law of tithing
or any other old testament law for that matter."

When people argue endlessly about the OT Law on this subject, it is clear that they are often showing that they have no clue what actually is the basis of the Law in the NT. They just have no clue. If someone like this argues that there is a danger in keeping "any other old testament law" - ANY of the OT Law - then I often ask these fellows why they often fail to open their eyes to see that SO MANY MANY Christian doctrines and practices are based on the same OT Law!! In another thread, I asked two questions:

* Is it not the OT Law that people quote to ask women to shut up? 1 Cor. 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches:
for it is not permitted unto them to speak;
but they are commanded to be under obedience,
as also saith the law

* Is it not the OT Law that people quote on NT marriage? 1 Cor. 7:39
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth;
but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to
whom she will; only in the Lord

The problem about this subject is that people are often arguing with untenable assertions about tithe - especially using the OT Law that they have never studied for one minute! People who preach about tithes on shaky grounds, as well as people who oppose tithes on the basis of the OT Law - both are often quarrelling against one because their assumptions are based on faulty reasoning about the place of the OT Law in the NT. That is why I often ask people to just go back and study Romans 3:31. Until such people calmly study that verse, I'm afraid this subject will continue to be problematic for so many people - and it is easier for one to condemn what they have never studied carefully.

I only gave that one example about the tithe opposer who sends people to hell for giving their tithes - because I have used it before and don't want to upset so many people who are always shouting against tithes, if I quote so many others. If you want other cases where these tithe opposers have said far worse things than the above, I shall be too glad to post your 35 different cases and refer you to their books, websites, and DVDs. Not many people take the time to check out what opposers are saying, but every time we worry only about what some tithe pastors are preaching. My stance is that faulty reasoning and assertions whould not be tolerated from either camp.

segyemaro:

what i am saying is that is because of tithe thats why we have churches at every 1kilometer,if this very tithe is cancelled today most of them will go bankcrupt.

Lol, please learn to separate the jive from the gist. The sad scenario you're complaining about is not based on tithes. If you cancelled tithes, you will find the problem doubled - because anyone who wants to make merchandise of you will think of many smart ways to take out your earnings.

we need to realy understand this issue of tithe given properly,most churches will close shop if this tithe is stoped.

pilgrim.1:


Please understand something crucial here. The question of tithes is arguable either way - for or against. Everyone arguing that subject has their own convictions; and what KunleOshob has been arguing is inconsistent. First, he argues against tithes, and then later says it is perfectly okay to give tithes.

I don't know why you have resort to deceit and selective memory just to vent out your fustrations on my stance against tithes as preached by most churches. I already explained that what i meant was tithing based on the Law which is what most pastors preach from is what is wrong, if how ever a chrsitian knows the truth about tithes and he is tithing or giving whatever percentage of his income to the church out of his own desire to contribute to the church, it is perfectly okay. You should please try and be honest when typing your posts there is no prise for winning arguments on this forum. Even Pastor AIO attested to my clarifications earlier which you read so i don't know why you are still hammering on this over flogged line.

segyemaro:

we need to realy understand this issue of tithe given properly,most churches will close shop if this tithe is stoped.

don't say that again!

segyemaro:

we need to realy understand this issue of tithe given properly,most churches will close shop if this tithe is stoped.

There are still a lot of decent churches out there that don't preach tithing and are still fully operational. The truth is that the average church should be able to cover it's expense from free will offerrings of the congregation. It is the greed of the church leaders that would not be covered hence the need to extort money from the congregation through such means as compulsory tithes

KunleOshob:

I don't know why you have resort to deceit and selective memory just to vent out your fustrations on my stance against tithes as preached by most churches. I already explained that what i meant was tithing based on the Law which is what most pastors preach from is what is wrong, if how ever a chrsitian knows the truth about tithes and he is tithing or giving whatever percentage of his income to the church out of his own desire to contribute to the church, it is perfectly okay. You should please try and be honest when typing your posts there is no prise for winning arguments on this forum. Even Pastor AIO attested to my clarifications earlier which you read so i don't know why you are still hammering on this over flogged line.

Kunle, please rest your pride. If any deceit has been expressed all along on this subject, we can harvest them aplenty in the relevant threads from your own entries. There is nothing I have typed to edit your ideas; and I've often called you several times to clarify your inconsistent arguments. It is not even as if you have handled the Law intelligently before using that to seek to win your own prize in arguing this subject. My response was to anonimi who had misread my post, and i simply explained why I did not think you have been consistent. If he did not mention you, I would not refer to you - and you cannot thereby claim I was still hammering on this issue. Pastor AIO that you mentioned should not be used to patronise your compromise here - he clearly said he did not suppose the paying of tithes is wrong.

@ Post and responses

meaning of Tithe

A tithe (from Old English teogoþa "tenth" is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a (usually) voluntary contribution or as a tax or levy, usually to support a Christian religious organization. Today, tithes (or tithing) are normally voluntary and paid in cash, cheques, or stocks, whereas historically tithes could be paid in kind, such as agricultural products. Several European countries operate a formal process linked to the tax system allowing some churches to assess tithes.

SOME TRUTHS ON TITHES

Now the tithe is not an old testament Law.
Tithe is one tenth of Your profit wages or earnings.
Tithe is not a bribe to God for him to do something for you.
Tithe is a an appreciative gift from the heart


SOME TRUTHS ON OFFERING

Offering is divided into parts

Sacrificial offering
Simple offering.

The problem the bible has with modern day givers is that they think that without giving we can not recieve. They scam their Church men to believe that without giving we can not get anything.

I say may your money perish with thee if you think this way except thou REPENT of this wicked thought!

what did you do to MERIT the Agape of God JESUS THE SON OF GOD?

Or what did you give to God when he was creating you in the Garden of Eden?

If pastors take away "give and you will get more" so many will not give.

WE ARE NOT COOWNERS OF THE GRACE OF GOD AND WE HAVE NO SPIRITUAL MIGHT TO DO ANYTHING UNLESS GOD'S MERCY AND FAVOUR IS WITH US.


HAVING SAID ALL THESE THERE IS NO UPPER BOUNDARY TO WHAT YOU CAN GIVE HOWEVER THERE IS A LOWER BOUNDARY WHICH IS 10TH OF WHAT YOU GET.

EXAMPLE:
IF YOU EARN 10,000 NAIRA AND YOUR TRANSPORT IS 9000 NAIRA A MONTH YOU HAVE EARNED NOTHING. HOWEVER YOU CAN OFFER UNTO GOD THE ONE THAT SEES YOUR HEART IF YOU WILL. HE MAY OR HE MAY NOT BLESS.

Backslidder,i quite agree with ur opinion

just last week here,a friend told me that he had his tithe with him and he came across a long time friend that has been suffering,and this friend told him that he has not eaten for two days,that my friend should assist him to eat,and the only money left with this my friend is his tithe,he now told the man to wait,and he rushed to his pastors place to tell him what to do in this situation.the pastor told him to bring the tithe to him in the church and look for something else for the man to eat,is this realy fair?

If you want to help the poor, it is best to do it for yourself.

Jesus, said "freely you have received, freely give", but these so-called disciples (pastors) of today switched it around ,  and started telling people to freely give to them.

Black devil pastors ,   pastor pass the bucket ,  how many times did you see Jesus pass the bucket?

What did Yashua (aka Jesus) say about tithes?

my brother Jesus never said anything about tithe andf He is the one that we are following His examplinary life.These so call pastors have derived so many names for the offerings,is either seed offering,welfare offering that will not get to the needy or free giving etc. Infact God is so mercifull.

I really am not going into the whole argument of whether to give tithe or not as my personal belief is that tithing,offering,alms and the rest are things that should be a personal relationship between you and your God as my belief is that everything a believer does should be tied to his personal relationship with his/her maker.i can decide to give even 15 or 20 percent of my income as the sprit leads but the main purpose of this giving either to the church or to the poor should be one done out of LOVE which is the greatest commandment of our lord Jesus,when you LOVE you give not to recieve but because you just LOVE.Giving should not be because you want recognition in church or becasue you want the whole world to see that you are giving or beacuse you want something from God.He know our heart's desires before we even say it.Giving should be an act of selflessness and sacrifice.This attitude is explicitly by our Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 6.

I have no problems with tithing as i have the belief that its a personal conviction,my only grouse is the manner in which the tithe is collected(this is something that goes in my church as well)What happened to the scripture that says that the left hand must not know what the right hand gives?So why do pastors now call people paying their tithe up to the front every sunday to pray a 'special prayer'.I personally do not go up to the front when i am paying,i just indicate on the envelope and stay on my seat as i feel that the prayer is not special as my God sees all hearts and is not being bought or cajoled to bless me because i paid tithe.Please, God is not the lottery.I have broached the topic with someone before and i know that it did not go down well but i still believe that all offerings should be made personal.Alot of people are giving because of all the wrong reasons as when all others are coming forward is done some people feel uncomfortable to be the only ones seating which in the turn means that the purpose for giving is flawed.Another thing i hate is when pastors start calling sacrificial offering and start with a figure ie 'For a mighty blessing this month i am calling a family that loves God to pledge starting from £500'.Pleeeease Why a price?That always rubs me the wrong way.What of people that cannot genuinely afford the extra?and the 419ner who made £100,000 illegally is able to give more than the £500?God looks at hearts not outward apperances.

I love God but i will be a christian by actions and attitudes and i refuse to coerced into giving when the motive for that giving is flawed.Thank God for the Bible,i have chosen to do according to the Word and even though i can be made out to be little bit non conformist in church,i have grown to know when a pastor is trying to play me(forgive my use of words).

my dear sister you ve spoken well. Even in my church its practised thesame way,were by tithers are called out side,while in some churches a tithing card is designed and given to each tither. I personally dont like the way the pastors are going about this issue opf offerings and tithe.i was in a church we were asked to raise our offering towards even before we will drop it,in this situation,the person sitting with you will definately see what you are given which is not biblical.i thank God that we all have a bible within our reach to know what is right or wrong.While in some churches some of the members will be placing money on the alter as the message is going on,why are we doing these?God can not be bought at all.

Tithe paying in the church today is against the New covenant.This is not an issue of "I will pay if I feel like it".It is not supported by the new covenant.
Tithing was instituted under the old testament/covenant.

The new testament replaced the old; it did not join it, it did not buttress it, it did not come to support it - it completely replaced it (Hebrews 8:8-13).
Since the old testament was replaced, it is only common sense that all the laws included in it have gone with it.
The new testament has its own set of laws within; contained within instructions and doctrines. Some of this laws are similar or the same to some in the old testament.But the point to be noted is that - those laws in the old testament that are appearing in the new were clearly specified eg. marriage issues.Those that were not specified are not part of the new covenant.

The new testament was fashioned out by removing most of the old laws and retaining some relevant laws and refining them, and then adding new laws and then instituting a new approach of becoming a part of it.

Now, among the laws of the new testament/covenant, tithing is not part of it, else it would have been clearly mentioned that it was a part.

The summary of this tithing issue is this:
Paying of tithes is not part of the new testament law, therefore it means it went away with the old covenant;it wasn't retained, neither was it refined.
Therefore it should not be a part of a Christian's life because the Christian's life is fashioned after the new covenant and not the old.
Since tithing is firmly established as part of the old covenant law, it is safe to conclude that Christians paying tithes are doing a law of the old testament and have the issue of Galatians 5:4 upon them because they are trying to please God by observing a part of an abolished law.

Giving of varying forms however is in support of the new covenant. This giving is to be done based on the determination of the giver; as he/she determines or decides as regards why,to whom, to what purpose and the quantity involved.
This giving is established in terms of meeting needs.Giving is not restricted to finances and church issues.Giving has to do with meeting the needs of people as they arise.

Finally, all this issue about tithes has nothing to do with the hole it might be creating in some people's pocket when they pay it or not but whether it is contained within the covenant that fashioned out Christianity; and that is the new covenant.

yea,i quite agree with you,what we are discussing here has been a blessing to me because no pastor would tell you all these cos they are realy interested in that 10%,they would have increased it to either 20 or 30% if they can do it.

segyemaro:

yea,i quite agree with you,what we are discussing here has been a blessing to me because no pastor would tell you all these because they are realy interested in that 10%,they would have increased it to either 20 or 30% if they can do it.

They actually collect a lot more than ten per cent thru other scams such as seed sowing, sowing the word, sacrificial offering, faith offering, regular mandatory offerings, first fruits, merchandizing items, the list is endless. O boy i go soon open my own church make i begin chop better money

^^^^^^
And Covenant Partnership.

i agree, tithing shouldnt be to the pastor but to God. i'd rather give to a poor beggar than a pastor who is richer than me. i think each person should give whatever they think is appropriate from their resources back to God. in whatever way he directs you. can be more or less than 10%.

KunleOshob:

O boy i go soon open my own church make i begin chop better money

shey? me too,

Jesus and Offerings

Jesus never took from his congregation.

He never passed around a basket or tray to receive pledges and donations at the end of each sermon.

He never asked for a payment.

Nor did he ever tell his disciples to accept money for their assistance as found in[b] Matthew 10:8-10:
“Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”[/b]

Jesus and Offerings

Jesus never took from his congregation.

He never passed around a basket or tray to receive pledges and donations at the end of each sermon.

He never asked for a payment.

Nor did he ever tell his disciples to accept money for their assistance as found in Matthew 10:8-10:
“Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

CHURCHES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CHARITY ORGANIZATIONS TO HELP THE POOR, NEEDY, GENERALLY THE LESS PRIVILAGED, THUS THE ESSENCE OF TITHING; BUT THIS MONEY IS COLLECTED TO BUY LATEST CARS(SOME CURCH MEMBER DONOR DON'T HAVE ONE), BUILD SCHOOLS -PRI, SEC, & TERTIARRYTHAT EVEN SOME OF THE POOR DONORS CAN NOT AFFOR TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO. WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD, GOD GO JUDGE SHAAAAAAAAA

The Levites are Priest and God commanded them not to do any other work. The tithe should be used to take care of them as well as the poor mentioned before and any other needs as may arise. The labourer is worthy of his wages.

The Tithe is not your own. It is God's own. You can hold it back if you are tired of His blessings. But know that if you don't pay it to God you'll pay it to something else.

i really dont get why this issue of tithes is briging so much criticisms from people,even muslims who have absolutely nothing to do with xtianity and trad worshippers, the way i see it the pastor isnt forcing you to give him your tithe as our duty as christians is to donate it/pay it in any church we feel like, also i personally think another option is to use the tithe to do a charitable thing every month,fostering a less advantaged child and sponsoring their monthly needs education,clothes,feeding with your monthly tithe,alms giving e.t.c is acceptable unto GOD

Noone would open a church if there was no offerings being collected.

All these so-calledpastors (Black devils helpers of the pale-skinned devils) will then go and get a decent job like Yashua (aka Jesus) did.

pope,u are beggining to sound like one of them. kunle pls make me your treasurer when you finally open your church. come to think of it tithe is soppose to be after three months Deut 26:12,and its for the Levites{the poor},but now these this pastors are collecting it every week/month,this is day light robbery.

if we stop giving tithes.most of this churches will die a natural death.

only the fake churches would go into extinction.churches has survived for centuries without this evil practice called tithing.the church would always survive withou tithes