samuk:


The bigotry from some of these people is unbelievable. They first argued that Benin didn't have the means to be in Lagos as early as 1603 let alone the 1500s, some even argued that Benin would have had to travel through territories controlled by Ijebus, which according to them would have been impossible.

Toda they conceded that Benin was already well established in Lagos in 1500s, but that Benin literally beg the aboriginal inhabitants for a piece of land to settle in.

Benin that was already building fortified military fortresses with residents soldiers, and walled garrisons that can only be breached and penetrated with help of European made canons as early as the 1500s, will be begging for land? From whom?

At this period in Benin history, the 1500s, the Benin literally believe that the Oba of Benin owns all lands and all body of water that are accessible to the Benin people. This is why when Benin move into any land of interest, they lord it over and any traditional ruler that protest are beheaded and replaced.

Benin history is too well established to be affected by side notes, subjective opinions born out of ignorance, malice and jealousy.

Stoplying:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIporKrPsbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hU-ibkPfg

I keep forgetting that someone had already done the homework on the descendents of brazilian slaves who call themselves yo***a

nisai:
Hmmmm. Very nice.
I want to learn about Ijebu. You have books to recommend?

TAO11:
Your propaganda videos have been debunked many times by myself as a work of fiction.

Rather than waste my time debunking it again (with the classical document), I think it is high-time that @Seun himself stepped in to do the needful.

You can’t name an ethnic group as a whole as slaves, and then expect that no action will be taken against you by the owner/mods of the platform.

It is high-time you’re put in your place for having broken the RULE 2 of this forum.

@Seun and @Mynd44 please take appropriate action against @Stoplying so peace and sanity can continue on this thread.

Thanks.

chumbuck12:
[s]This one pain am well.. She finally reported to the mods [/s]

Stoplying:
[s]Documented history of the yoruba:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIporKrPsbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hU-ibkPfg[/s]

TAO11:
Please follow back, I just followed you now. Check your “FS”.

Stoplying:
[s]When it's all said and done, the truth is all that matters:

Documented history of the yorubas :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIporKrPsbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2hU-ibkPfg

This is why whenever history is discussed, these yoruba always discuss fairytales like oduduwa and oranmiyan instead of their true history of which they are either ashamed either ignorant.[/s]

Stoplying:
When it's all set and done, the truth is all that matters:

Documented history of the yorubas :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llporKrPsbU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

This is why whenever history is discussed, these yoruba always discuss fairytales like oduduwa and oranmiyan instead of their true history of which they are either ashamed either ignorant.

TAO11:
Please follow back, I just followed you now. Check your “FS”.

nisai:
Pls email me on yusufbola90@gmail.com, I forgot the password to the email linked to this account.

Stoplying:
[s]There is more:
true history of the yoruba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0f53aYJElw[/s]

samuk:
[s]The same reason they downplay aspects of Benin history they can't steal as theirs. Same reason they will continue to hold on to the Oduduwa fairytale because it's a gateway for them to write themselves into Benin history and whitewash their historical pasts.

Any reasonable people would have by now disassociated themselves from Benin historical past because of the amount of work we have done here on nairaland to prove that there was absolutely no connections between Benin and Ife before 1897. They have refused to dissociate themselves from Benin history because to do so will amounts to historical suicide.

Take the Oduduwa myth out of their history and see how it fails apart. Their early writers starting from Samuel Johnson knew the importance of the Benin connections the way Ajayi Crowder before him didn't understood.

The historical romance between Benin and Ife only lasted in the reigns of Oba Eweka 2 and Oba Akenzua 2 who were just recovering from the brutal defeat by the British and needed all the support they can get in the new political realities/order in then Nigeria. The romance hits the rock from the reign of Oba Erediawa and Oba Ewuare 2 have maintained his father's position on Oduduwa, I don't see any future change in the current position on Oduduwa.

Back to Ajayi Crowder

Ajayi Crowder saw the reigns of three Benin Obas starting from 1843 when he returned to Nigeria and opened a mission in Abeokuta.

Further more on Ajayi Crowder:

Crowther began translating the Bible into Yoruba and compiling a Yoruba dictionary. In 1843, his grammar book, on which he had begun working during the Niger expedition, was published. A Yoruba version of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer followed later. Crowther also compiled A Vocabulary of the Yoruba Language,[16] including a large number of local proverbs, published in London in 1852.

He also began codifying other languages. Following the British Niger Expeditions of 1854 and 1857, Crowther, assisted by a young Igbo interpreter named Simon Jonas, produced a primer for the Igbo language in 1857. He published one for the Nupe language in 1860, and a full grammar and vocabulary of Nupe in 1864.[17]

Crowther had become a close associate and friend of Captain James Pinson Labulo Davies, an influential politician, mariner, philanthropist and industrialist in colonial Lagos.[18] The two men collaborated on social initiatives in Lagos, such as the founding of The Academy (a social and cultural center for public enlightenment) on 24 October 1866. Crowther was the first patron and Captain J.P.L Davies was the first president.[19]

Back to Benin/Ife fabrications:

As can been seen above, Ajayi Crowder, an educated returnee former slave who travelled and worked across Nigeria during the reigns if three Oba of Benin, Oba Osemwende, Oba Adolo and Oba Ovonramwen (1843 -1891), 48 years never linked Benin history to Ife despite himself doing a lot of work on the advancement of the Yoruba race.

Why did Ajayi Crowder not write about

Benin/Ife relationship during his 48 years of missionary works in Nigeria. The simple reason is there wasn't such relationship.

If there was Benin/Ife relationship, Ajayi Crowder who worked as a missionary in Nigeria for 48 years (1843 - 1891) during the reigns of (Oba Osemwende 1816-1848), (Oba Adolo 1848 -1888) and (Oba Ovonramwen 1888 -1914) would have mentioned it in his writings.

I mainly concentrated on the missionary life of Ajayi Crowder from when he returned to Nigeria in 1843. Ajayi Crowder was said to have been born in Nigeria in 1809 before he was taken into slavery.

From 1809 to 1891 when Ajayi Crowder was born and died was a period of 81 years, in this period Benin saw the reigns of five Obas,

1. Oba Obanosa(About 1804AD-1816AD)
2. Oba Ogbebo(About 1816AD-1816AD)
3. Oba Osemwende (About 1816AD-1848)
4. Oba Adolor (About 1848AD-1888AD)
5. Oba Ovoranmwen (1888AD-1914AD)

If there was Benin/Ife relationship during this period, why didn't Ajayi Crowder wrote about it in his 48 years of writing in Nigeria.

Apart from Ajayi Crowder who was an educated Nigeria who did a lot of writings, there were also numerous European priests in Nigeria during these periods who also wrote extensively on Yoruba and Benin history, why did they omit Benin/Ife relationship if indeed there was one.

The invention of Benin/Yoruba relationship as one people started after the fall of Benin in 1897. This is the simple reason you will not see any record of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.[/s]

samuk:
I understand your pains. The Oduduwa myth is one very important myths the Yoruba desperately want to believe to be true, but unfortunately, it's what it is, a fabrication born out of myth without historical evidence backing it.

Benin/Ife history was concocted after the fall of Benin empire in 1897.

There were no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in the eyewitness documented Benin history between 1400s to 1800s.

I have severally challenged TAO11 to show such evidence but I suspect I may have to wait until the chicken grows teeth before she can find such evidence.

ThickSharon123 post: chapter of the Bini and Igbo relationship.

I ain't against Oba being the supreme leader, I respect him for that. Oba akpor topeye

samuk:


The same reason they downplay aspects of Benin history they can't steal as theirs. Same reason they will continue to hold on to the Oduduwa fairytale because it's a gateway for them to write themselves into Benin history and whitewash their historical pasts.

Any reasonable people would have by now disassociated themselves from Benin historical past because of the amount of work we have done here on nairaland to prove that there was absolutely no connections between Benin and Ife before 1897. They have refused to dissociate themselves from Benin history because to do so will amounts to historical suicide.

Take the Oduduwa myth out of their history and see how it fails apart.

The historical romance between Benin and Ife only lasted in the reigns of Oba Eweka 2 and Oba Akenzua 2 who were just recovering from the brutal defeat by the British and very hostile anti Benin British Nigeria and needed all the support they can get in the new political realities/order in then Nigeria. The romance hits the rock from the reign of Oba Erediawa and Oba Ewuare 2 have maintained his father's position on Oduduwa, I don't see any future change in the current position on Oduduwa.

Back to Ajayi Crowder

Ajayi Crowder as a missionary, saw the reigns of three Benin Obas starting from 1843 when he returned to Nigeria and opened a mission in Abeokuta.

Further more on Ajayi Crowder:

Crowther began translating the Bible into Yoruba and compiling a Yoruba dictionary. In 1843, his grammar book, on which he had begun working during the Niger expedition, was published. A Yoruba version of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer followed later. Crowther also compiled A Vocabulary of the Yoruba Language,[16] including a large number of local proverbs, published in London in 1852.

He also began codifying other languages. Following the British Niger Expeditions of 1854 and 1857, Crowther, assisted by a young Igbo interpreter named Simon Jonas, produced a primer for the Igbo language in 1857. He published one for the Nupe language in 1860, and a full grammar and vocabulary of Nupe in 1864.[17]

Crowther had become a close associate and friend of Captain James Pinson Labulo Davies, an influential politician, mariner, philanthropist and industrialist in colonial Lagos.[18] The two men collaborated on social initiatives in Lagos, such as the founding of The Academy (a social and cultural center for public enlightenment) on 24 October 1866. Crowther was the first patron and Captain J.P.L Davies was the first president.[19]

Back to Benin/Ife fabrications:

As can been seen above, Ajayi Crowder, an educated returnee former slave who travelled and worked across Nigeria during the reigns if three Oba of Benin, Oba Osemwende, Oba Adolo and Oba Ovonramwen (1843 -1891), 48 years never linked Benin history to Ife despite himself doing a lot of work on the advancement of the Yoruba race.

Why did Ajayi Crowder not write about
Benin/Ife relationship during his 48 years of missionary works in Nigeria.

The simple reason is there wasn't such relationship.

If there was Benin/Ife relationship, Ajayi Crowder who worked as a missionary in Nigeria for 48 years (1843 - 1891) during the reigns of (Oba Osemwende 1816-1848), (Oba Adolo 1848 -1888) and (Oba Ovonramwen 1888 -1914) would have mentioned it in his writings.

I mainly concentrated on the missionary life of Ajayi Crowder from when he returned to Nigeria in 1843. Ajayi Crowder was said to have been born in Nigeria in 1809 before he was taken into slavery.

From 1809 to 1891 when Ajayi Crowder was born and died, was a period of 81 years, in this period, Benin saw the reigns of five Obas,

1. Oba Obanosa(About 1804AD-1816AD)
2. Oba Ogbebo(About 1816AD-1816AD)
3. Oba Osemwende (About 1816AD-1848)
4. Oba Adolor (About 1848AD-1888AD)
5. Oba Ovoranmwen (1888AD-1914AD)

If there was Benin/Ife relationship during this period, why didn't Ajayi Crowder write about it in his 48 years of writing in Nigeria.

Apart from Ajayi Crowder who was an educated Nigeria who did a lot of writings, there were also numerous European in Nigeria during these periods who also wrote extensively on Yoruba and Benin history, why did they omit Benin/Ife relationship if indeed there was one.

The invention of Benin/Yoruba relationship as one people started after the fall of Benin in 1897. This is the simple reason you will not see any record of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

TAO11:
Are you actually slow, or pretending to be slow??

TAO11:
At what point did I inform you or any of your fellow miscreants that a [eastern] Yoruba community [in the frontier area of Benin kingdom] beheaded your oba

TAO11:
The most I have noted is that IFE alone conquered and continues to conquer the Edos for some 800 years till date and still counting.

TAO11:
You are conquered linguistically (to a fair extent),

TAO11:
you are conquered politically (the Ife dynasty)

TAO11:
you are conquered theologically (the Yoruba deities),

TAO11:
you are conquered psychologically, etc.

TAO11:
I also mentioned the humiliation your oba had to face — that is, the fact that your oba had to placate and plead with Ogedengbe even after he had meted untold carnage upon your oba’s kingdom.

TAO11:
And I also mentioned that in the course of engaging some eastern frontier Yoruba communities in battle, Benin (even as relatively big as it is in comparison to each of these much relatively smaller communities) still recorded “important casualties on some occasions (e.g. Iken, et al.), as well as” recorded “outright loss on some occasions”.

TAO11:
I did make it clear in my foregoing comment that it was the “humiliation of your oba … [that] … I was particular on” with respect to the fat that your oba Ozolua was beheaded — at no point did I dwell on who was responsible, or who wasn’t.

TAO11:
Oh really!? Anyways, you may go and never return if you truly mean to do so.

TAO11:
Ouch!

TAO11:
UGBE634, after running away for days you still don’t know how to use the “Quote” functionality.

Anyway, sha modify/quote properly, make I come fire you with devastating refutation as usual.

PS: Good! Now that you’ve modified, make I come fire your ynansh!

gregyboy:


You made a brilliant point with ajayi crowther after i saw this your point i decide to research on what he wrote on the origin of yoruba people


The wrote on how ife was founded by 3 different brothers these 3 names never had Oduduwa in it,

That made already proved my assertion that Samuel johson invented Oduduwa into ife in his book in 1897

Ajayi crowther was also an Oyo man just like Samuel johson how come he would skip Oduduwa and Samuel johson didn't when there from thesame oyo


Samuel johson invented odudwa

We are afraid to read history fron research perceptive, Tao11 has been the messenger sent for we binis to humiliate yoruba history


Every blames goes to Tao11 and her crazy
obsession

samuk:


The same reason they downplay aspects of Benin history they can't steal as theirs. Same reason they will continue to hold on to the Oduduwa fairytale because it's a gateway for them to write themselves into Benin history and whitewash their historical pasts.

Any reasonable people would have by now disassociated themselves from Benin historical past because of the amount of work we have done here on nairaland to prove that there was absolutely no connections between Benin and Ife before 1897. They have refused to dissociate themselves from Benin history because to do so will amounts to historical suicide.

Take the Oduduwa myth out of their history and see how it fails apart.

The historical romance between Benin and Ife only lasted in the reigns of Oba Eweka 2 and Oba Akenzua 2 who were just recovering from the brutal defeat by the British and very hostile anti Benin British Nigeria and needed all the support they can get in the new political realities/order in then Nigeria. The romance hits the rock from the reign of Oba Erediawa and Oba Ewuare 2 have maintained his father's position on Oduduwa, I don't see any future change in the current position on Oduduwa.

Back to Ajayi Crowder

Ajayi Crowder as a missionary, saw the reigns of three Benin Obas starting from 1843 when he returned to Nigeria and opened a mission in Abeokuta.

Further more on Ajayi Crowder:

Crowther began translating the Bible into Yoruba and compiling a Yoruba dictionary. In 1843, his grammar book, on which he had begun working during the Niger expedition, was published. A Yoruba version of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer followed later. Crowther also compiled A Vocabulary of the Yoruba Language,[16] including a large number of local proverbs, published in London in 1852.

He also began codifying other languages. Following the British Niger Expeditions of 1854 and 1857, Crowther, assisted by a young Igbo interpreter named Simon Jonas, produced a primer for the Igbo language in 1857. He published one for the Nupe language in 1860, and a full grammar and vocabulary of Nupe in 1864.[17]

Crowther had become a close associate and friend of Captain James Pinson Labulo Davies, an influential politician, mariner, philanthropist and industrialist in colonial Lagos.[18] The two men collaborated on social initiatives in Lagos, such as the founding of The Academy (a social and cultural center for public enlightenment) on 24 October 1866. Crowther was the first patron and Captain J.P.L Davies was the first president.[19]

Back to Benin/Ife fabrications:

As can been seen above, Ajayi Crowder, an educated returnee former slave who travelled and worked across Nigeria during the reigns if three Oba of Benin, Oba Osemwende, Oba Adolo and Oba Ovonramwen (1843 -1891), 48 years never linked Benin history to Ife despite himself doing a lot of work on the advancement of the Yoruba race.

Why did Ajayi Crowder not write about
Benin/Ife relationship during his 48 years of missionary works in Nigeria.

The simple reason is there wasn't such relationship.

If there was Benin/Ife relationship, Ajayi Crowder who worked as a missionary in Nigeria for 48 years (1843 - 1891) during the reigns of (Oba Osemwende 1816-1848), (Oba Adolo 1848 -1888) and (Oba Ovonramwen 1888 -1914) would have mentioned it in his writings.

I mainly concentrated on the missionary life of Ajayi Crowder from when he returned to Nigeria in 1843. Ajayi Crowder was said to have been born in Nigeria in 1809 before he was taken into slavery.

From 1809 to 1891 when Ajayi Crowder was born and died, was a period of 81 years, in this period, Benin saw the reigns of five Obas,

1. Oba Obanosa(About 1804AD-1816AD)
2. Oba Ogbebo(About 1816AD-1816AD)
3. Oba Osemwende (About 1816AD-1848)
4. Oba Adolor (About 1848AD-1888AD)
5. Oba Ovoranmwen (1888AD-1914AD)

If there was Benin/Ife relationship during this period, why didn't Ajayi Crowder write about it in his 48 years of writing in Nigeria.

Apart from Ajayi Crowder who was an educated Nigeria who did a lot of writings, there were also numerous European in Nigeria during these periods who also wrote extensively on Yoruba and Benin history, why did they omit Benin/Ife relationship if indeed there was one.

The invention of Benin/Yoruba relationship as one people started after the fall of Benin in 1897. This is the simple reason you will not see any record of Benin/Ife relationship before 1897.

samuk:


The questions are:

1. Why didn't Ajayi Crowder record seeing atleast two Obas of Benin being taken to Ife for burial.

2. Why didn't Ajayi Crowder record seeing atleast two Obas of Benin that reigned in his time going to Ife to go and collect their beaded crowns as these people have been telling us.

3. Why didn't Ajayi Crowder record seeing traditional and cultural exchanges between Ife and Benin during his 48 years of his adult missionary life in Nigeria.

TAO11 is a blessing in disguise to the Benin here on Nairaland. She forced us to stop taking our history on face value without questioning it.

Looking closely at Ajayi Crowder's life, writings and the fact that he lived during the reigns of the last three Obas of Benin before the fall of Benin in 1897, I have never been more convinced that Benin never had any relationship, interactions and connections with Ife.

gregyboy:



Samuel ajayi crowther in his book quoted

The yoruba country stretches from oyo to benin and Dahomey....

That idiot of a bishop lied, i dont belive he would make heaven, he decided to include benin as Yorubas for his books to gain attention

So if you notice this yoruba people have been attaching themselves to we binis since 800bc they are lover of greatness they cabt make

Tao11 is a recarnation of the first yoruba who attempted attaching binis to yoruba history that's why are own obsession is unexplaining

In the other hand another oyo man named Samuel johson in 1897 had invented Oduduwa fairytales....

Samuel johson mentioned bini as one of oduduwa imaginary children which i belive he got the audacity from ajayi who inspired him from his works

Anyway yoruba have been attaching to greatness since since d fall of d devil and to the benins since the 15bc... ;and to the fulanis since 1960

The annoying part is they aren't stealing the Fulani history because there is really no big greatness in their prehistory and if they attempt war on their head because thry got the numbers to outmach them online they are only attaching to the fulanis for their current exploit in the political Affairs of nigeria and they are doing so as slaves

UGBE634:
I have never been slow, I was trying to correct the impressions to your followers who would have passed it off as exact same scenario with what I was implying. I had to do that before one of your followers like nisiw365 go on the street of Ibadan shouting na we behead Ozolua[/s].

some of your followers might have implied that I had to correct it for their sake.

Ilorin is with the Fulani's and they speak Yoruba language and I am sure they practice Yoruba culture alongside like IFA but it is what it is.

conquered linguistically?you wish! Go on YouTube search for Edo movies and watch it if you hear as much as five percent make I die. I saw you ignorantly asserting on one thread that Omo was borrowed by the Binis from the yorubas, and you went further to say that slaves use 'ovbi'let me add here that bini is a one dialect language, there are no variations. There are some scenarios that would warrant yYou to use Omo and there are some scenarios which would warrant yYou to use Ovbi else your statement won't be correct or sound right.

I have explained this to you before but you will not heed the Bini man is a very stubborn man he is not one that can be forced to do something against his wish the energy is from us to him, that is not conquest, there are no slaves in Benin everyone descended from one worthy ancestor or another all of who are king of one district or another some of these towns are well older than Benin and predate the Oba dynasty e.g Ugo Egor, Udo etc,

Nor be who dae worship them? Olokun is Edo.

you wish instead you are the one that has been conquered psychologically after reading series of Edo conquest, you can no longer sleep comfortably at night.

And I have also told you that your Ogedegbe's claim to greatness is shrouded in mystery and cowardice, it has to be debated first before one can draw out any meaning from it

but you are trying to trivialize this one now, If not samuk that brought out this one,you won't have shown us how Benin decimated your fathers, how Igede and Uyin lost part of their population in the fight Against Edo.

Na Edo man behead Edo man wetin be your concern ,by the way I knew what you tried to do but your followers may not be as smart.

you really wish I should leave so you can pass heresy as truth

samuk:
[s]The questions are:

1. Why didn't Ajayi Crowder record seeing atleast two Obas of Benin being taken to Ife for burial.

2. Why didn't Ajayi Crowder record seeing atleast two Obas of Benin that reigned in his time going to Ife to go and collect their beaded crowns as these people have been telling us.

3. Why didn't Ajayi Crowder record seeing traditional and cultural exchanges between Ife and Benin during his 48 years of his adult missionary life in Nigeria.

TAO11 is a blessing in disguise to the Benin here on Nairaland. She forced us to stop taking our history on face value without questioning it.

Looking closely at Ajayi Crowder's life, writings and the fact that he lived during the reigns of the last five Obas of Benin (1809 - 1891) before the fall of Benin in 1897 and yet wrote nothing about Benin/Ife supposed relationship, I have never been more convinced that Benin never had any relationship, interactions and connections with Ife until after the fall of Benin in 1897.
[/s]

samuk:
I understand your pains. The Oduduwa myth is one very important myths the Yoruba desperately want to believe to be true, but unfortunately, it's what it is, a fabrication born out of myth without historical evidence backing it.

Benin/Ife history was concocted after the fall of Benin empire in 1897.

There were no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in the eyewitness documented Benin history between 1400s to 1800s.

I have severally challenged TAO11 to show such evidence but I suspect I may have to wait until the chicken grows teeth before she can find such evidence.