Image123:


i'm doing good, and you? The natural man has a God void in his heart by default. That's why he craves to worship and devote himself to something or someone. In anywhere and anytime, educated or otherwise, man wants to worship something or someone. From God, to stones to trees to the sun to money or to even men. The latest is to "science".

Care to define 'worship' as you used it here?

shadeyinka:

This is no sensible answer for a direct question.

What is your proof that God doesn't exist?

I don't think it's possible to prove a negative.

Like for example,
If I said prove their is no fox hiding in your backyard.
You can't really provide proof for this negative, but you can use the absence of evidence like their is no fox poop, foot prints or fur in your backyard to safely concluded no fox is hiding there. Despite the probability not being zero.

Workch:
Zeus is the uncaused first cause

In Greek myth that would be chaos from which Nyx (goddess of night) and Erebus (darkness) emerged. The uncaused causes. Which gave birth to the other primordials.

IMAliyu:

In Greek myth that would be chaos from which Nyx (goddess of night) and Erebus (darkness) emerged. The uncaused causes. Which gave birth to the other primordials.

lol, wahala

Workch:
lol, wahala

I'd say the Greeks were onto something here.
In Christianity, I'd argue darkness preceded God, as why would he need to create light as his first act?

IMAliyu:

I don't think it's possible to prove a negative.

Like for example,
If I said prove their is no fox hiding in your backyard.
You can't really provide proof for this negative, but you can use the absence of evidence like their is no fox poop, foot prints or fur in your backyard to safely concluded no fox is hiding there. Despite the probability not being zero.

There ae always two ways to make any proof
You can prove that a cup is empty
or
You can prove that a cup is NOT empty

either way, you arrive at the same destination to the original postulations
The Cup is not empty
or
The Cup is empty

So also with God, there are two original postulations
1. God the Creator Exist
2. God the Creator does NOT Exist
Hence, there must exist two ways to prove the postulates
1. Prove that God the Creator Exist
2. Prove that God the Creator NOT Exist

Its so simple!

shadeyinka:


So also with God, there are two original postulations
1. God the Creator Exist
2. God the Creator does NOT Exist
Hence, there must exist two ways to prove the postulates
1. Prove that God the Creator Exist
2. Prove that God the Creator NOT Exist

Its so simple!

Everything that exists is an instantiation of an eternal idea. An Eternal Idea is the perfect or ideal form of any object, naturally fashioned or secondarily fashioned by man. This means there is an ideal apple, ideal human, ideal bed, ideal bird, ideal house, ideal star, ideal atom etc that exist in the eternal plane and anything in this material plane participates in or imitates an eternal idea.

The Essence of Existence fashioned all ideas including the ideal god of which Osiris, yhwh, Orumnmila, etc, are all participants.

So also with the Essence, there are two original postulations
1. The Essence of Existence exists
2. The Essence of Existence does NOT Exist

Hence, there must exist two ways to prove the postulates
1. Prove that the Essence of Existence exists (the proof is in the name and everything you see and can’t see)
2. Prove that the Essence of Existence does NOT exist.

Its so simple!

shadeyinka:

There ae always two ways to make any proof
You can prove that a cup is empty
or
You can prove that a cup is NOT empty

either way, you arrive at the same destination to the original postulations
The Cup is not empty
or
The Cup is empty

So also with God, there are two original postulations
1. God the Creator Exist
2. God the Creator does NOT Exist
Hence, there must exist two ways to prove the postulates
1. Prove that God the Creator Exist
2. Prove that God the Creator NOT Exist

Its so simple!

But is either one of this possible to prove?

To prove or disprove that God exists, you'd need to have some compression of what he is and his properties.
I don't think there is a consensus on that.

IMAliyu:

In Greek myth that would be chaos from which Nyx (goddess of night) and Erebus (darkness) emerged. The uncaused causes. Which gave birth to the other primordials.

If we go further back, the Egyptians had ideas about the sun “impregnating the earth with life” as the beginning of life on earth i.e. abiogenesis that started at the equator because it’s the closest part of the earth to the sun. So life arose because of energy from the sun and wet conditions on earth.

Furthermore, they had story of a god impregnating a mortal woman before Yahweh ever had the idea of screwing Mariam.

shadeyinka:

A stupidly evasive answer!
First, who are the we?
Could it be that these "we" are unreservedly ignorant?

Can an empty cup be also filled with sand?
Stupid Answer: We don't know!

Can an empty cup be also filled with sand?
Smart Answer: We don't know!

Before we can answer yes or no, we have to find out the material the cup is made of, the condition of the sand, and the mechanism that would be used to fill the cup.

We can imagine scenarios where a cup can or can not be filled with sand depending on the aforementioned factors.

shadeyinka:

Since God isn't made of matter, He isn't a "something"!
Has any Christian described God as a thing?

God is a Spirit: a spirit is not a THING

God is a Spirit: a spirit is not a THING

God is a Spirit: a spirit is noTHING

God is a noTHING: a spirit is noTHING

KnownUnknown:


Can an empty cup be also filled with sand?
Smart Answer: We don't know!

Before we can answer yes or no, we have to find out the material the cup is made of, the condition of the sand, and the mechanism that would be used to fill the cup.

We can imagine scenarios where a cup can or can not be filled with sand depending on the aforementioned factors.

Anyone who doesnt know the answer to the highlighted question is either a big fat liar or a slowpoke.
Empty Cup here means not containing even a grain of sand

shadeyinka:

Anyone who doesnt know the answer to the highlighted question is either a big fat liar or a slowpoke.
Empty Cup here means not containing even a grain of sand

What if I shoot a grain of sand into an empty cup made of paper?

IMAliyu:


But is either one of this possible to prove?

To prove or disprove that God exists, you'd need to have some compression of what he is and his properties.
I don't think there is a consensus on that.

How is God the creator described (by Christians)?
Do atheists understand what the description is or they reject the description?

If I reject water as matter, then a cup can never be filled with water (even when we all see it as completely filled)

Atheists had better stop the senseless stubbornness...

KnownUnknown:


What if I shoot a grain of sand into an empty cup made of paper?

If the cup contains the grain of sand, then it is not empty

shadeyinka:

If the cup contains the grain of sand, then it is not empty

If the grain of sand punches through the bottom of the cup, then it is empty.

Expand your mind a bit:
The cup is not empty. The cup contains air, fields, virtual particles etc therefore it’s impossible for it to be empty.

KnownUnknown:


God is a Spirit: a spirit is not a THING

God is a Spirit: a spirit is noTHING

God is a noTHING: a spirit is noTHING

Even in our reality, your argument is nonsense

1. Is a computer program inside the HDD of your phone a thing?
If it is not a thing, is it nothing?
2. If pi (in mathematics) is nothing, why do you use it as if it is something that computations rely upon?

Will you agree that if a computer program is Nothing, then it doesn't exist

KnownUnknown:


If the grain of sand punches through the bottom of the cup, then it is empty.

Expand your mind a bit:
The cup is not empty. The cup contains air, fields, virtual particles etc therefore it’s impossible for it to be empty.

Unfortunately, your lack of simple english comprehension did not allow you to see that we have been talking about an object (Cup) and a subject (Sand) and not air molecules

If the cup[b] contains[/b] the grain of sand, then it is not empty

shadeyinka:

Even in our reality, your argument is nonsense

1. Is a computer program inside the HDD of your phone a thing?
If it is not a thing, is it nothing?
2. If pi (in mathematics) is nothing, why do you use it as if it is something that computations rely upon?

Will you agree that if a computer program is Nothing, then it doesn't exist

1. Yes. Computer programs are lines of code. A code is a thing
2. Pi is a thing because numbers are things used to describe or quantify objects, which are also things.
3. Whatever example you come up with can described as thing. Even your god is a thing. Consult a dictionary.

shadeyinka:

Unfortunately, your lack of simple english comprehension did not allow you to see that we have been talking about an object (Cup) and a subject (Sand) and not air molecules

Unfortunately your myopia and paucity of intellect won’t let you realize that an object (Cup) can be filled with a particular subject (Air) other than the first subject(Sand) in your example.

shadeyinka:

How is God the creator described (by Christians)?
Do atheists understand what the description is or they reject the description?

If I reject water as matter, then a cup can never be filled with water (even when we all see it as completely filled)

Atheists had better stop the senseless stubbornness...

Ok then what are the properties of God as described in Christianity? I'm not a Christian myself so my knowledge on the matter maybe very limited.

But let's take a hypothetical case for example.
If we propose that a god that hates apples exists and this god is the creator of everything.
But we can observe that apples do in fact grow, then is it not possible to conclude that either this god is not real, or at least information about this god is wrong like it may not have the power to stop apples from growing?
And can we extend this logic to the Gods of real world religions?

KnownUnknown:


1. Yes. Computer programs are lines of code. A code is a thing
2. Pi is a thing because numbers are things used to describe or quantify objects, which are also things.
3. Whatever example you come up with can described as thing. Even your god is a thing. Consult a dictionary.

You are either displaying your ignorance of basic science or lack of comprehension of somple english

shadeyinka:

Even in our reality, your argument is nonsense

1. Is a computer program inside the HDD of your laptop a thing?
If it is not a thing, is it nothing?
2. If pi (in mathematics) is nothing, why do you use it as if it is something that computations rely upon?

Will you agree that if a computer program is Nothing, then it doesn't exist

By Definition:
A Thing is either an OBJECT or MATERIAL we do not want to refer to by its proper name
1. The computer program you write in paper is NOT that INSIDE the HDD of your laptop
2. pi in mathematics is neither an object nor a material (it is an abstract mathematics concept in the field of numbers and constants).
If pi exist, what is its location in space?
What is its volume?
What is its mass?

Unfortunately for you, if you agree that God is a thing, you have shot yourself in the foot for a thing must ALWAYS exist.
Is there a thing that doesn't exist?

shadeyinka:

You are either displaying your ignorance of basic science or lack of comprehension of somple english



By Definition:
A Thing is either an OBJECT or MATERIAL we do not want to refer to by its proper name
1. The computer program you write in paper is NOT that INSIDE the HDD of your laptop
2. pi in mathematics is neither an object nor a material (it is an abstract mathematics concept in the field of numbers and constants).
If pi exist, what is its location in space?
What is its volume?
What is its mass?

Unfortunately for you, if you agree that God is a thing, you have shot yourself in the foot for a thing must ALWAYS exist.
Is there a thing that doesn't exist?

A thing can be an object, article, item, artefact, commodity,device, gadget, contrivance, instrument, utensil, tool, implement. entity, body, action, event, abstract mathematical concepts in the field of numbers etc

A thing can also be an idea as in mental constructs. An idea such as The Creator or God, a superhuman, spirits, ghosts

KnownUnknown:


If the grain of sand punches through the bottom of the cup, then it is empty.

Expand your mind a bit:
The cup is not empty. The cup contains air, fields, virtual particles etc therefore it’s impossible for it to be empty.

Then the question should be is it even possible for a cup to be empty?

The questionnaire, should had been a bit more specific. Is the cup empty of what exactly? Is it water? If so then it's possible to have a conclusive answer of Yes or No.

IMAliyu:

Ok then what are the properties of God as described in Christianity? I'm not a Christian myself so my knowledge on the matter maybe very limited.

For the Christian
1. God is the Uncaused First-Cause of Everything that exist
2. God is a Spirit (a Spirit is a non material living being and Consciousness)
3. God is the origin of all the laws guiding everything

IMAliyu:

But let's take a hypothetical case for example.
If we propose that a god that hates apples exists and this god is the creator of everything.
But we can observe that apples do in fact grow, then is it not possible to conclude that either this god is not real, or at least information about this god is wrong like it may not have the power to stop apples from growing?
And can we extend this logic to the Gods of real world religions?

Your analogy is not clear or grossly mundane!

If scientists developed computers with a superior artificial intelligence and independence, what kind of question should they ask themselves that will show that humans created them?

KnownUnknown:


A thing can be an object, article, item, artefact, commodity,device, gadget, contrivance, instrument, utensil, tool, implement. entity, body, action, event, abstract mathematical concepts in the field of numbers etc

A thing is MATTER: anything that has mass or occupy space

KnownUnknown:

A thing can also be an idea as in mental constructs. An idea such as The Creator or God, a superhuman, spirits, ghosts

No sir!
Prove this by a simple online dictionary

Can I be arrested for violently robbing a bank in my dream?

But since God (to you is a thing), then He exists!
If God exist(to you), then you are just a wannabe atheist!

shadeyinka:

A thing is MATTER: anything that has mass or occupy space



No sir!
Prove this by a simple online dictionary

Definition of thing
1 : an object or entity not precisely designated or capable of being designated
use this thing
2a : an inanimate object distinguished from a living being
b : a separate and distinct individual quality, fact, idea, or usually entity
c : the concrete entity as distinguished from its appearances
d : a spatial entity
3 : INDIVIDUAL
not a living thing in sight
4a : a matter of concern : AFFAIR
many things to do
b things plural : state of affairs in general or within a specified or implied sphere
things are improving
c : a particular state of affairs : SITUATION
look at this thing another way
d : EVENT, CIRCUMSTANCE
Meeting her was a wonderful thing.
5a things plural : POSSESSIONS, EFFECTS
pack your things
b : whatever may be possessed or owned or be the object of a right
c : an article of clothing
not a thing to wear
d things plural : equipment or utensils especially for a particular purpose
bring the tea things
6a : DEED, ACT, ACCOMPLISHMENT
do great things
b : a product of work or activity
likes to build things
c : the aim of effort or activity
the thing is to get well
7a : something (such as an activity) that makes a strong appeal to the individual : FORTE, SPECIALTY
letting students do their own thing
— Newsweek
I think travelling is very much a novelist's thing
— Philip Larkin
b : a mild obsession or phobia
has a thing about driving
also : the object of such an obsession or phobia
8a : DETAIL, POINT
checks every little thing
b : a material or substance of a specified kind
avoid fatty things
9a : IDEA, NOTION
says the first thing he thinks of
b : a piece of news or information
couldn't get a thing out of him
c : a spoken or written observation or point

shadeyinka:


Can I be arrested for violently robbing a bank in my dream?

But since God (to you is a thing), then He exists!
If God exist(to you), then you are just a wannabe atheist!

I don’t know if you can be arrested for violently robbing a bank in your dreams but Mohammed Ali said “If you dream of beating me, you better wake up and apologize”

Of course I’m not an atheist nor am I a theist. I understand the concept of god, so I don’t have the burden of belief or unbelief. I even have a cogent idea of what Moses was doing when he created your “God”

KnownUnknown:


I don’t know if you can be arrested for violently robbing a bank in your dreams but Mohammed Ali said “If you dream of beating me, you better wake up and apologize”

Of course I’m not an atheist nor am I a theist. I understand the concept of god, so I don’t have the burden of belief or unbelief. I even have a cogent idea of what Moses was doing when he created your “God”

So you claim not to be an atheist but only a hater of the God of the Christians: if so, goodluck to you

shadeyinka:

For the Christian
1. God is the Uncaused First-Cause of Everything that exist
2. God is a Spirit (a Spirit is a non material living being and Consciousness)
3. God is the origin of all the laws guiding everything

Ok, is this something exclusive to the Christian God, or are these also attributed to other Gods from other faiths?

Your analogy is not clear or grossly mundane!

If scientists developed computers with a superior artificial intelligence and independence, what kind of question should they ask themselves that will show that humans created them?

Would they need to ask any question?
They'd need just to access there own database to see the records of their creation, and the names of their creators.
If in doubt, they can access the entire web, to find the decades of research papers published about AI.
Or thirdly notice how different they are from any living thing on the planet, how they don't reproduce, age, or die, & the silica, metal and plastic material they are built from to notice their artificial origin.

My analogy was mundane on purpose to keep it simple, let's take the No. 2 for example.
Spirit only exists as an abstract concept in our minds, & have not been demonstrated to exist, or at least have any real world effect.
So how would one go about trying prove this?

KnownUnknown:


Definition of thing
1 : an object or entity not precisely designated or capable of being designated
use this thing
2a : an inanimate object distinguished from a living being
b : a separate and distinct individual quality, fact, idea, or usually entity
c : the concrete entity as distinguished from its appearances
d : a spatial entity
3 : INDIVIDUAL
not a living thing in sight
4a : a matter of concern : AFFAIR
many things to do
b things plural : state of affairs in general or within a specified or implied sphere
things are improving
c : a particular state of affairs : SITUATION
look at this thing another way
d : EVENT, CIRCUMSTANCE
Meeting her was a wonderful thing.
5a things plural : POSSESSIONS, EFFECTS
pack your things
b : whatever may be possessed or owned or be the object of a right
c : an article of clothing
not a thing to wear
d things plural : equipment or utensils especially for a particular purpose
bring the tea things
6a : DEED, ACT, ACCOMPLISHMENT
do great things
b : a product of work or activity
likes to build things
c : the aim of effort or activity
the thing is to get well
7a : something (such as an activity) that makes a strong appeal to the individual : FORTE, SPECIALTY
letting students do their own thing
— Newsweek
I think travelling is very much a novelist's thing
— Philip Larkin
b : a mild obsession or phobia
has a thing about driving
also : the object of such an obsession or phobia
8a : DETAIL, POINT
checks every little thing
b : a material or substance of a specified kind
avoid fatty things
9a : IDEA, NOTION
says the first thing he thinks of
b : a piece of news or information
couldn't get a thing out of him
c : a spoken or written observation or point

Good attempt but out of context to the discussion.

Nothing mean NOT a THING

KnownUnknown:


If we go further back, the Egyptians had ideas about the sun “impregnating the earth with life” as the beginning of life on earth i.e. abiogenesis that started at the equator because it’s the closest part of the earth to the sun. So life arose because of energy from the sun and wet conditions on earth.

Furthermore, they had story of a god impregnating a mortal woman before Yahweh ever had the idea of screwing Mariam.

Yeah, it's impressive how ancient people figured some stuff out.
maybe they noticed places that were wet and had sunlight, possessed more life compared to others.

And when you study some older beliefs, you start to notice how unoriginal these faiths are.