Rewriting history at the highest order he came to succeed his father lol true you people are just too funny. The prince has no body to succeed in Eko he was the first king in Eko go read your history he didn’t succeed no ones but the rest came to succeed him.

Prince Ado/prince Edo was only called prince because of his royalty in Edo. There was nothing like king before he went to Lagos, Lagos was kingles disorganized uncolonize before prince Ado or prince Edo went there from Benin empire to install him self as the new king.

And also in the picture you posted I saw Adolo if you check history of Benin king there is one call Adolo, in Benin Adolo means to repair or to do something for the better.

Adolo don’t have a meaning in Yoruba I also surprised how Yoruba people are trying to rewrite everything to the point every where they see he is from Benin or he came from Benin they will then now put. He stays in Benin lol

I’m not that surprised because it looks familiar

Onitcha ni du are doing the same thing since they can’t change the fact that Onitcha ni du means from Edo and the history said the first king there come from Edo to take power. They are now also saying he only come from Edo to take the king but his origin is Igbo.

All this rewriting of history started from 19th century after the fall of Benin empire.

Nothing changes Oba Ado Eko he grow up in Edo his Root was Yoruba even with Edo name nawa.

Jameseddi1:
[s]Rewriting history at the highest order he came to succeed his father lol true you people are just too funny. The prince has no body to succeed in Eko he was the first king in Eko go read your history he didn’t succeed no ones but the rest came to succeed him.

Prince Ado/prince Edo was only called prince because of his royalty in Edo. There was nothing like king before he went to Lagos, Lagos was kingles disorganized uncolonize before prince Ado or prince Edo went there from Benin empire to install him self as the new king.

And also in the picture you posted I saw Adolo if you check history of Benin king there is one call Adolo, in Benin Adolo means to repair or to do something for the better.

Adolo don’t have a meaning in Yoruba I also surprised how Yoruba people are trying to rewrite everything to the point every where they see he is from Benin or he came from Benin they will then now put. He stays in Benin lol

I’m not that surprised because it looks familiar

Onitcha ni du are doing the same thing since they can’t change the fact that Onitcha ni du means from Edo and the history said the first king there come from Edo to take power. They are now also saying he only come from Edo to take the king but his origin is Igbo.

All this rewriting of history started from 19th century after the fall of Benin empire.

Nothing changes Oba Ado Eko he grow up in Edo his Root was Yoruba even with Edo name nawa.[/s]

(1) I doubt that I can help you given that you’re ignorant of this very basic information.

But to to help you:
Ado has a father whose name is Aṣípa [Ashipa].^a

Aṣípa is the progenitor of the present Eko dynasty.

Ado is regarded as the first “crowned”/official king.

(2)And as per the earlier screenshot, the point there for you is that the name “Ado” (for Benin city) is old, and it is used from within Benin itself.

Your Oba Ovoranmwen was quoted using the name “Ado” for Benin city. He iss Oba Adolo’s son.

So, I’m not sure what your yap about his father Adolo is all about.

Cheers.

---

^aAs per Aṣípa’s (Ashipa’s) roots, Lagos accounts identify him with clarity as a Yorùbá (Awori subgroup to be specific) from ìṣẹri (Isheri) along the Ogun River.

Benin accounts (which appear later) say he is from Benin.

The Lagos account is clearly more credible given that the word “Ashipa” is a pure Yorùbá word without any twisting/turning.

Newton85:
Lmao, imagine this utterly laughable nonsense from the Bini frauds: “I was told by my late paternal
grandmother, who was a descendant of Oba Ovonranwen
Nogbaisi." Lol, how is Akiolu a descendant of Ovonramwen?

As each day passes, I get convinced that these people of Benin (who are all over social media) actually have mental illness.

Ọba Akiolu said on camera that:

“My mother is a descendant of Onitana, Oniṣiwo, Aromirẹ, Olumẹgbọn. My father … is a descendant of Ologun-Agan, Onitana, Aromirẹ, and the esteemed royal house of Lagos.”

But no, Gabriel Omohinmin thinks his father’s mom should be from Benin — just to have Benin thrown there into the equation.

It’s only God that will save these Binis from low self-esteem.

Amen.

nisai:
If not for the Oba's advisers and the consideration of Oranmiyan Omo olofin on the part of Ogedengbe, Benin present dynasty would have been Owa Adimula.

Ogedengbe agbogun gboro adi fonfon loju ogun. O s'oko ekiti s'oko akoko, eni akoko nb'imo sin l'ese oke. Obanla olori awon Ipaye. Ogedengbe lo l'oke anaye.

Omo won ni Ilesa. Ijesa ni won omo onile obi. Omo eleni ateeka, omo eleni ewele. Emi o le ki agba ijesa ki nma je obi t'ogbo. Okeke l'aso ode igbajo elegodo tiemi l'aso ode ijesa. Iran ijesa nii sin tolotolo eru won (Bini ) nii sin pepeye.

Interesting

TAO11:
You should think before you type actually.

IF indeed there was a Benin dynasty in Idah, then that proves 100% that the homeland of the “Ogane” is certainly NOT at Idah – and the Uhe of Benin traditions is NOT there.

A Benin dynasty in Idah means that a Benin descendant kingdom is in Idah. In other words, the monarch at Idah is surbodinate to the Benin monarch.

But the facts say that the “Ogane” was a superior and suzerain overlord to whom the king of Benin is surbordiate.

So, the Idah monarch is not the Ogane. And Idah is not Uhe.

Cheers.

It is now beyond doubt that the Benin/Ife connection is nothing but political. This connection came into existence after the end of Benin empire/kingdom in late 1890s.

There is absolutely nothing in Benin previous history that connects Benin to Ife by way of customs, tradition or history.

Europeans started visiting and writing about Benin since the 1400s and not once did they experience Benin having any connection with Ife. On the other hand, by the 1500s and on one of the Europeans numerous visits to Benin, they witnessed the Benin Ida war, said in Benin history to have started by Benin chief/s who created misunderstanding between the Attah of Igala (who was must likely a Benin descendant) and the Oba of Benin. Traditions had it that Benin dynasty was in Ida for almost 200 years, early 1500s to late 1600s.

If there was a Benin dynasty in Ida at this period, it makes sense and will not be out of place that there was also Benin shrine/s in Ida in the same period. So sending messages to the chief priest of a Benin shrine in Ida to inform him of the installation of a new Oba in Benin will not be out of place as documented by Europeans in the Ogane part of Benin history.

The old Benin empire/kingdom had several of such shrines. There are still several shrine in present Edo south senatorial district.

Example:

It's generally accepted that the annual Igue festival starts with Oba, then the princes and Princesses and the general population. In reality this is not the case. The Olokun shrine at Urhonigbe celebrates the Igue festival before the Oba of Benin.

The fact that Olokun N' Urhonigbe takes preeminence in Igue festival celebrations does not elevate it above the Oba of Benin, people like yourself who doesn't understand Benin traditions and customs will mistake this simple example as the Olokun N' Urhonigbe is superior. Benin sending a message to a Benin shrine, East of Benin in ancient times to inform the chief priest of the installation of a new Oba in Benin does not makes the chief priest superior to the Oba of Benin.

Throughout Benin history, all Benin shrines, gods and all known Kings have always be inferior to the Oba of Benin who was seen as God in human body or God's human representative on earth before 1897, some still believe this to be true.

The Europeans themselves witnessed in 1826, how the Alaafin, king of the entire yoruba people (kingdom/empire) relied on the Oba of Benin military superiority to keep his yoruba people in line.

Ogane written about in Benin history

The Ogane mentioned in Benin history was said to be located in a direction East of Benin, the closest location that matches the description of Ogane which Benin had a relationship with at this period of Benin history, late 1400s or early 1500s is Ida.

There is nothing in Benin history linking Benin history to present day Ife, Osun state which is geographically located West of Benin, a complete opposite direction from what was written down by the European who visited Benin. The direction and description doesn't fit the location of Ife in Osun state and there is nothing in both yoruba and Benin history to suggest that Benin had anything to do with Ife during this period of 1400s, 1500s, 1600s and 1700s, in fact Ife, Osun state was not mentioned in connection to Benin history until 1897. Some still believe this to be true.

The description of the messager with whiskers that was sent to Ogane as depicted in Benin artefacts matches similar Igala artefacts.

Further evidences dismissing Ife Osun state as Benin ancient Uhe.

Benin traditions agrees that a Benin prince Ekaladerhan who they believe became Oduduwa went to Ife after being banished from Benin.

The Benin Origin of this Benin prince has never been in doubt in Benin traditions, for the avoidance of doubts two successive Oba of Benin have repeatedly made this point clear.

There were no mention of Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan in Benin history between 1400s to 1897, when independent Europeans eyewitnesses documented Benin history.

Even early Yoruba writers such as Ajayi Crowder who returned to Nigeria around 1840 and wrote for several decades until his death in 1890 never wrote seeing Benin having any relationship with Ife.

If Benin had any connection with Ife as late as 1840 to 1890, Ajayi Crowder would have undoubtedly witnessed it and written about it.

Between 1840 to 1888, several burial and coronation of Benin Oba took place in Benin, if Ife had participated in any shape or form, Ajayi Crowder would have documented it.

Benin/Ife connection was the brain child of Samuel Johnson in 1897. No yoruba writers before him connected Benin with Ife.

Benin/Ife connection is a political fabricated story that started in 1897. The very fact that very senior Benin Palace chiefs laughed at the previous Ooni when he quoted Egharevba to support the yoruba position, should have been a clear indication to the yoruba that the Benin traditional council have more facts than they are willing to reveal.

Due to the obvious political and cultural benefits that accrues from it to the Benin traditional institution, there is no need to cause more damage to it than have already done, especially with the fact that millions of yoruba like yourself desperately want it to be true.

TAO11:

As each day passes, I get convinced that these people of Benin (who are all over social media) actually have mental illness.

E shock you. What's the population of Benin compared to Yoruba. What you call low self esteem is actually self confidence that doesn't require hiding under a large ethnic group to express. Benin people can confidently hold their own without hiding and relying on support from large ethnic group.

samuk:
[s] ;DE shock you. What's the population of Benin compared to Yoruba. What you call low self esteem is actually self confidence that doesn't require hiding under a large ethnic group to express. Benin people can confidently hold their own without hiding and relying on support from large ethnic group.[/s]

What rubbish did I just read?

You quoted my comment in part and left out the larger remainder only bacause you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Only low-self esteem could stir such hook or crook tendency. If not explain why you deleted the larger portion of that moderate comment.

---

Having said that, explain what could cause Gabriel Omohinmin to fabricate a written [so-called] interview.

Or why he invented a Bini grandparent for Ọba Akiolu when Ọba Akiolu has already mentioned to us on camera (in an actual interview with someone else) who his grand parents are.

I don't have any other explanation for Gabriel Omohinmin's actions than the well-known Bini low self-esteem.

Let me know if you have another explanation for Gabriel's desperation.

Cheers.

RECAP:
From the PART A of your humiliation, you are still yet to say one word of reply to the eight (8 ) comments below which were directed straight to you:

(1) My reply of 12:54pm On Jan 18, 2022
(2) My reply of 11:22pm On Jan 18, 2022
(3) My reply of 11:42pm On Jan 18, 2022
(4) My reply of 11:51pm On Jan 18, 2022
(5) My reply of 12:18am On Jan 19, 2022
(6) My reply of 04:25am On Jan 19, 2022
(7) My reply of 07:28am On Jan 19, 2022
(8 ) My reply of 07:07pm On Jan 19, 2022

What exactly are you scared of in these comments that you dared not type even a word of response to any one of them??

You’ve clearly admitted that you’ve been fooling yourself all the way from your reply of 09:35pm On Jan 17 on page 15.

You’ve clearly realized [after much spanking] that no eyewitness called your Benin an “empire”. But they did call Oyo an “empire”.

And it’s okay that you've realized your foolishness.

---

Regarding the PART B of your humiliation in my last set of comments, you are yet to say even one word of reply to the following:

(1) My reply of 8:43am On Jan 21, 2022
(2) My reply of 08:44am On Jan 21, 2022
(3) My reply of 09:28am On Jan 21, 2022
(4) My reply of 11:10am On Jan 22, 2022
(5) My reply of 11:11am On Jan 22, 2022
(6) My reply of 12:33pm On Jan 22, 2022

Is there anything too difficult to reply to in these comments?? If nothing, then please hurry up and reply to them. Remember your must protect your Bini fans from the truth as you wish to do.

So, act NOW.

samuk:
[s]It is now beyond doubt that the Benin/Ife connection is nothing but political. This connection came into existence after the end of Benin empire/kingdom in late 1890s[/s]

Debunked!

See the excerpt below as quoted from a reply of mine which you've fled from:

“… in 1486, a Portuguese named João Afonso de Aveiro had reached Benin and had inquired about “the most powerful monarch of these parts” of the world.

His report among others’ were synthesized & published in 1540 by João de Barros. Barros’s synthesis shows that the kings of Benin are subordinate to a supreme powerful monarch.

The Portuguese synthesis gives the title of this monarch as “Ogane” (Portuguese transliteration)

It's not all coincidence that:
(A) … this supreme monarch is noted as “Ogane”

(B) … the Bini word “Ọɣẹnẹ” roughly means “great lord”

(C) … Ife kings are known in Bini language as “Ọɣẹnẹ [n’ Uhẹ]”

(D) … the monarchs of Ife are known in Ife itself as “Ọɣọni [-Ufẹ]”

(E) …the “Ọɣọni” in Yoruba language roughly means “the exalted one”.

(F) …this identification is the consensus of historical scholarship in the world today.

---

On the other hand, travelers in our region in the 1400s, 1500s,1600s, and 1700s, are largely traders, etc. (not colonialists).

As such, they did not concern themselves with inquiries into kings’ ancestries; or of their (the kings’) first parents’; their original homelands; or any such naming of names.

If they had made such inquiries, then their reports would have shown some answers. However, their reports contained no answers at all whatsoever on these specific subjects.

Their reports would have shown some name (may be Pa-Idu instead of Oduduwa, or Ogiso-Igodo instead of Oranmiyan, or Igalaland instead of Ife, or any other name for that matter) if they cared about Benin kings’ ancestors/predecessors, or their original homeland.

The fact that their report is blank (not only to the name Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, et al., but) to any name at all whatsoever -- in this context – shows that they didn’t concern themselves with such particular inquiry in the first place.

Your question about Oduduwa, Oranmiyan, et al. is therefore slow and redundant since no such inquiries was even made at all to begin with.

They didn’t even mention your kings’ names from Eweka to Osemwende – including the kings’ whom they must have met in person – let alone their first parents’ names, etc. Get a grip.

These specific inquiries began with the arrival (in the 1800s) of colonialist whose business was more than trade. They’re here to stay. They must know [the history of whom] they’re conquering.

The colonialists made these specific inquires (from your kings’ court) in the 1800s; and their reports furnished us, for the first time, with names of personages, places w.r.t. Benin history.

Since then, the names of the founding personages of Benin’s royal dynasty, as obtained from the royal court of Benin have been: Eweka, Oranmiyan, Oduduwa from Ife in Yoruba country.”
.
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Continues in my next comment.

@samuk:
[s]There is absolutely nothing in Benin previous history that connects Benin to Ife by way of customs, tradition or history[/s]

(1) Except the ~602 years old ‘bronze’ cast (depicting an Ọɣọni of Ifẹ) which was excavated from the archaeological deposits of the palace of Benin kingdom.

(2) Except the Oduduwa festival [called “Ugie-Ododuwa” in Edo language – NOT even Ugie-Izoduwa, nor Ugie-Ekaladerhan] which Benin kingdom still celebrate till today.

(3) Except that your King Eweka-2 confirmed that all Benin Ọbas offer ritual prayers at dawn to the Ọɣọni of Ifẹ, then to the Alaafin of Ọyọ, then to himself, then to other Yoruba kings.

(4) Except that the Ọɣọni [of Ifẹ] is known in the Edo language of Benin as Ọɣẹnẹ [n’ Uhẹ] till date – the same “Ọɣẹnẹ” which the 1540 Portuguese text transcribed as “Ogane”.

(5) Except the ancient helmet masks obtained from the “Ogane” as confirmation items (per the Portuguese texts) which are present in Benin Kingdom till date by the name “Oduduwa Helmet Masks”.

(6) Except that Benin Ọbas have royal praise appellations which are typical of Yoruba Ọbas, viz. “Admiula”, “Õṣa’keji”, et al. [These appellations are Yoruba words -- absent in Bini language].

(7) Except that the most important insignia of Benin kingdom emanated from Ifẹ. Yes, the “Ada” (a Yoruba word) & Abẹnrẹn (a Yoruba word, rendered in Bini as “Ẹbẹnrẹn” a.k.a. “Ebẹn”) per the oldest epigraphic/archaeological evidence depicting these objects.

(8 ) Except that Benin kingdom of the 1600s (at least) makes use of the language of the Yoruba people as a lingua franca – alongside its own indeginous language -- based on the firsthand reports of eyewitnesses from the 1600s.

(9) Except that your Ọba Ovonramwen was quoted to have pronounced "Ado" for “Edo” – a pronunciation which is generally known to be the Yoruba rendition.

(10) Except that the traditional royal title of Benin ọbas (kings) is called “Ọmọ-n-Ọba” which simply means “The Child-King”.

In other words, Benin traditions unashamedly admits that its kings (from the get go) are children to some other king of another kingdom.

[I’m aware that your Yoruba-hating YouTuber (i.e. Imasuen) attempted some gymnastics in this regard; he, however, unknowingly admit that the prince Aghatise Erediauwa (the immediate younger brother of the reigning king) educated him that the actual meaning is exactly as I have it up here.]

---

I can go on and on with this listing, but I would stop here. Lol.

[s]Europeans started visiting and writing about Benin since the 400s and not once did they experience Benin having any connection with Ife.[/s]

Debunked!

See my response above which reads: “… in 1486, a Portuguese named João Afonso de Aveiro had reached Benin …”

[s]On the other hand, by the 1500s and on one of the Europeans visit to Benin, they witnessed the Benin Ida war, said in Benin history to have started by Benin chief/s who created misunderstanding between the Attah of Igala (who was must likely a Benin descendant) and the Oba of Benin. Traditions had it that Benin dynasty was in Ida for almost 200 years, early 1500s to late 1600s.[/s]

Well, there is certainly no such eyewitness writing which mentions any Benin war with Idah.

And by the way, didn’t you pray that the “Ogane” (who is actually an overlord, a suzerain, and a backbone to Benin kingdom) should be at Idah?? How come Benin is at war with same Idah?? I’m lost. Lol

And how come the Idah – which you pray that the “Ogane” should be at – is also a Benin’s dynasty at the same time??

Is the Idah king the “Ogane” (i.e. Benin’s overlord), or is he a Benin descendant (i.e. Benin’s dynasty)?? You have to make up your mind on this?? Hurry!
.
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Continues from my next comment.

@samuk:
[s]Ogane writing about in Benin history
The Ogane mentioned in Benin history was said to be located in a direction east of Benin, the closest location which Benin had a relationship with at this period of Benin history, late 1400s or early 1500s is Idah.[/s]

Debunked!

See also the excerpt below most of which is culled from one of my replies which you’ve fled from:

“An honorific-name by which Ife is still known till date is: “the place from where dawn comes”, i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”, or “the place of dawn”. Yes, that’s Ifẹ.


It now becomes clear why such a name of Ife (i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”) would be understood, by any European, as the direction of Ife.

No, that’s actually a name of the Ọɣọni’s homeland; and not the direction of the Ọɣọni’s homeland.

And that clarifies that about the mention of “east” in the texts. Whereas the maps of the time [as attached] actual shows a western direction; and that settles it.

Also, every other single details in the text also aligns with the Ọɣọni; and simultaneously speaking, they align only with the Ọɣọni in the whole of the Gulf of Guinea.

Moreover, this is the conclusion of historical scholarship in the world today among scholars of Arfican history. Keep trying, my good friend.

See 2nd screenshot from Adam Knobler’s “Mythology & Diplomacy in the Age of Exploration,” (2016), p. 47.”

---

And the Idah which you keep squeezing in into the equation actually damages (rather than help) your prayer.

The connection (if any) between Benin and Idah, at the time, is that Idah was a descendant kingdom from Benin kingdom.

Whereas the Ogane’s kingdom (which is actually established to be Ife) is an overlord kingdom over Benin kingdom.

It becomes clear, then, that the kingdom of the “Ogane” is not at Idah. It remains Ife. Lol.

[s]There is nothing in Benin history linking Benin history to present day Ife, Osun state which is geographically located West of Benin, a complete opposite direction from what was written down by the European who visited Benin. The direction and description doesn't fit through located of Ife in Osun state and there is nothing in both yoruba and Benin history to suggest that Benin had anything to do with Ife during this period of 1400s, 1500s, 1600s and 1700s,[/s]

Debunked! Lol.

See: My comment of 03:18pm On Jan 23, 2022.
See: My comment of 03:12pm On Jan 23, 2022.
See: The preceding lines above in this very reply.

[s]in fact Ife, Osun state was not mentioned in connection to Benin history until 1897.[/s]

False. Lol.

The Europeans documented in the early-1800s that the Ọyọ king and the Benin king are descended from the same progenitors; and that these progenitors are of Ife roots & origin.

[s]The description of the messager with whiskers that was sent to Ogane as depicted in Benin artefacts matches similar Igala artefacts.[/s]

Two quick things:

(1) There are no ancient/classical Igala artefact which bears these marks.

(2) Several ancient/classical Ife artefacts bears these cat-whisker cheek marks.

[s]Further evidences dismissing Ife Osun state as Benin ancient Uhe. Benin traditions agrees that a Benin prince Ekaladerhan who they believe became Oduduwa went to Ife after being banished from Benin.

The Benin Origin of this Benin prince has never been in doubt in Benin traditions, for the avoidance of doubts two successive Oba of Benin have repeatedly made this point clear.[/s]

TWO kings of Benin said it?? Wow! That’s a lot of them o. A whole TWO. LMAO.

Well, the TWO Benin kings who said it include:
(1) The inventor of the tale himself (i.e. Erediauwa), and (2) His son (Ewuare-2).

It’s a recent revision, a poorly executed one at that.

And this tale of forcing the Bini Ekaladerhan to be one and the same person as the Yoruba Oduduwa has been debunked (in advance) by the earliest Benin traditions collected since the 1800s.

However, Akenzua-2 (Erediauwa’s father) had upheld the classical traditions – and as such identified in 1937 as a Yoruba monarch, a son of Ife, and a subordinate to the Ọɣọni.

Similarly, Eweka-2 (Akenzua-2’s father) noted that Benin kings offer prayers (daily at dawn) first to the Ọɣọni, then to the Alaafin, then to himself, then to all other Yoruba monarchs.

Eweka-2 added that this ritual prayer rite has for long been in existence and has been observed daily at dawn (while facing the rising sun) by his ancestors & predecessors.

Most importantly, the revision is regarded in historical scholarship as an “apocryphal”, as “pseudohistorical”, and as “deliberately unauthentic”. It has been debunked & trashed by historical scholarship.
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Continues in my next comment.

@samuk:
[s]There were no mention of Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan in Benin history between 1400s to 1897 when independent eyewitnesses Europeans documented Benin history.[/s]

This is false, and has been debunked .

See: My comment of 03:12pm On Jan 23, 2022.

[s]Even early Yoruba writers such as Ajayi Crowder who returned to Nigeria around 1840 who wrote for several decades until his death in 1890 never wrote seeing Benin having any relationship with Ife.

If Benin had any connection with Ife as late as 1840 to 1890, Ajayi Crowder would have undoubtedly witnessed it and written about it.

Between 1840 to 1888, several burial and coronation of Benin Oba took place in Benin, if Ife had participated in any shape of form, Ajayi Crowder would have documented it.

Benin/Ife connection was the brain child of Samuel Johnson in 1897. No yoruba writers before him connected Benin with Ife.[/s]

Two quick things which debunk this:

(1) This is false because the Europeans writings published long before Johnson wrote his work (much less publish it) notes that: The Ọyọ king and the Benin king are descended from the same progenitors; and that these progenitors are of Ife roots & origin.

(2) Regarding Ajayi Crowther:
Yes, he was educated as to how to put pen to paper. His field is, however, not history. He wasn’t writing about history – let alone the history of Ife, and whether/not it has connection with Benin.

There are several things (besides history) that people do with pen and paper. Ajayi Crowther was a Linguist and Missionary who, as a linguist, was working on language, grammar, scriptures, etc.

Despite history not being his area, there is at least one of his works (a 59-page-long 1852 publication on Yoruba language & grammar) wherein he dedicated 7 out of the 59 pages to “Introductory Remarks”.

In this side-step (i.e. introductory remarks), he did state categorically that the Yoruba kingdom of Ife did exercise influence over Benin kingdom.

[s]Benin/Ife connection is a political fabricated story that started in 1897.[/s]

Debunked.

See the preceding lines of this very comment.

[s]The very fact that very senior Benin Palace chiefs laughed at the previous Ooni when he quoted Egharevba to support the yoruba position[/s]

Making up stories as you go is a Bini thing too?? Lol.

And no Yoruba cites Egharevba to “support the Yoruba position”. Yoruba position has never needed help.

What a Yoruba may do is to react to Erediauwa’s foolery by pointing him to the classical/early sources as collected from his predecessors’ royal court and transcribed into writing by the then Chief Obkhavbaye of Benin kingdom – Chief Jacob Uwadiae Egharevba.

[s]should have been a clear indication to the yoruba that the Benin traditional council have more facts than they are willing to reveal.[/s]

Of course they wouldn’t want to reveal how your king is subordinate to a certain overlord whose confirmation your king requires in order to be regarded as truly a king in Benin.

But there is no point hiding it because the classical texts which reports it since the 1500s is now available to all and sundry. Information in this age is just clicks away – unlike in the past.

[s]Due to the obvious political and cultural benefits that accrues from it to the Benin traditional institution, there is no need to cause more damage to it than have already done, especially with the fact that millions of yoruba like yourself desperately want it to be true.[/s]

I want what is true to be true?? Isn’t that a redundant thing to suggest??

And did you just say the Benin kingdom and its kings has been has been engaging in fraud all along just because it stands to gain some cultural boost from the Yoruba world?? Wow!

---

BTW, where did your attached image come from. FaCeBoOk I guess. Lol.

No, you can’t just mine a random image from the internet and pass it off as the remains of Benin walls. That’s not how it works.

See how it works in my attached screenshot below for what “remains’ of the mediocre heap of clay called the Benin walls. LMAO. Yes I adduced evidence, unlike you.


Cheers.

TAO11:


The Europeans documented in the early-1800s that the Ọyọ king and the Benin king are descended from the same progenitors; and that these progenitors are of Ife roots & origin.

Keep the lies coming, even you must have realised by now that very few people now take you seriously.

Ryder actually said that earlier Europeans documented Benin history does not support Benin/Ife connection. He said the previous 400 years of documented Benin history by Europeans doesn't support Benin/Ife connection. He further stipulated that if Benin ever had any relationship with Ife, it would have been that they were likely related in antiquity to a source in the Niger Benue confluence, which Ida and the Igala Kingdom was domiciled.

Connection between Benin and Yoruba if any was said to have happened some time before eyewitness historical documentation of Benin history began in the 1400s and the most plausible location for this relationship was said to be the Niger-Benue confluence, not present day Ife in Osun state.

You have got your work cut out, if you think I am one of those you could hoodwinked with your lies and outright misrepresentation of historical accounts.

I repeat, Ryder said, Benin/Ife connection is at variance with the traditions early Europeans collected and documented about Benin in the last 400 years that preceded 1897 and any or if there was any connection between Benin and Ife, it most likely happened before 1400s in the Niger-Benue confluence which experts believe was the cultural melting pot of most southern Nigeria Kingdoms.

Ogane said to be East of Benin matches this location. Ife is in the opposite western direction. Ife is definitely not Ogane, they are in different geographical locations, Ogane is East of Benin while Ife is west of Benin. East of Benin is a geographical locations from Benin, not the direction of prayers as you would like your fellow gullible supporters to believe. The text is below for all to read.

Stop being desperate to claim the Oba of Benin. You should be contended with the Ooni, Alaafin plus 1000 other yoruba Obas.

I earlier promised your yoruba compatriots that I will be soft on you, but you are now seriously pushing your luck.


The documented history of Ogané


1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that to the east of Beny at twenty moons' journey which according to their account, and the short journeys they make, would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king a staff and a headpiece of shining brass, fashioned like a Spanish helmet, in place of a crown and sceptre. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king. All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogané, he never sees the prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as though it were a sacred relic.[/b] As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.

An interesting perspective on Uhe and Oghene which have been long argued to have existed around the Niger-Benue confluence.

[/i]https://fb.watch/9wltvNkHDF/[i]

samuk:
Read carefully:

Your screenshot “Summary” comes directly from Alan F.C. Ryder (1965).

In that work he proposed the theory that the Ogane’s location could have been in the Nupe area, or Igala area, or elsewhere in the Niger-Benue confluence area.

However, he himself abandoned his own theory in a new work which he published four years down the line in 1969.

Moreover, his 1965 suggestion was debunked by the general consensus of historical scholarship in the world today.

Some examples of the relevant works in this regard are:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

Again, see the attached screenshot for a summary of the position of historical scholarship on this subject.

samuk:
[s]Keep the lies coming, even you must have realised by now that very few people now take you seriously.

Ryder actually said that earlier Europeans documented Benin history does not support Benin/Ife connection. He said the previous 400 years of documented Benin history by Europeans doesn't support Benin/Ife connection. He further stipulated that if Benin ever had any relationship with Ife, it would have been that they were likely related in antiquity to a source in the Niger Benue confluence, which Ida and the Igala Kingdom was domiciled.

Connection between Benin and Yoruba if any was said to have happened some time before eyewitness historical documentation of Benin history began in the 1400s and the most plausible location for this relationship was said to be the Niger-Benue confluence, not present day Ife in Osun state.

You have got your work cut out, if you think I am one of those you could hoodwinked with your lies and outright misrepresentation of historical accounts.

I repeat, Ryder said, Benin/Ife connection is at variance with the traditions early Europeans collected and documented about Benin in the last 400 years that preceded 1897 and any or if there was any connection between Benin and Ife, it most likely happened before 1400s in the Niger-Benue confluence which experts believe was the cultural melting pot of most southern Nigeria Kingdoms.

Ogane said to be East of Benin matches this location. Ife is in the opposite western direction. Ife is definitely not Ogane, they are in different geographical locations, Ogane is East of Benin while Ife is west of Benin.

Stop being desperate to claim the Oba of Benin. You should be contended with the Ooni, Alaafin plus 1000 other yoruba Obas.[/s]

It is important to mention that all the scholars in this area understand that the “east” here is not literal.

Nupe is NOT to the “east” of Benin, but it is one of the places suggested by Ryder even in his 1965 work.

In any case, the different places he suggested (about which no king there fits the details of the Portuguese texts) have now all been devastatingly refuted by the consensus of historical scholarship today.

The document history of Ogané
1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

"Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that to the east of Beny at twenty moons' journey which according to their account, and the short journeys they make, would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king a staff and a headpiece of shining brass, fashioned like a Spanish helmet, in place of a crown and sceptre. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king. All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogané, he never sees the prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as though it were a sacred relic.[/b] As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.

Readers can see at this point that the details (i.e. Ogane, “east”) of this text matches only the Ọɣọni of Ife, and Ife's name as "the place where the sun rises from" respectively.

The other details from this old text (viz. cross, helmet, etc.) all also simultaneously match no other king in the whole of the Gulf of Guinea -- except the "Ọɣọni" of Ife.

The link below goes to a thread on this, by @Abohboy, where I went into details to provide both ethnographic and archaeological evidence for each of the details in the text:

LINK: https://www.nairaland.com/6725935/ogane-east-benin

Cheers.

Ogane was said to be geographically located East of Benin.

Present day Ife in Osun state is geographically located West of Benin.

Ogane(East)------ Benin --‐--Ife(West)

Europeans visited different part of what is today western Nigeria from Ijebu, Lagos and Oyo, met with Yoruba people between the 1500s to 1826, the Europeans even visited Sultan Bello of Sokoto who had already written a book about the yoruba people in 1824. In all these encounters, never was a great Ife Kingdom that matches Ogane mentioned to the Europeans.

Yoruba people can't just wake one day and try to move East to West and West to East in a desperate attempt to ascribed to Ife, the status it never attained in history, Ife whose influence does not extend to Modakeke.

.
Of course they did.
.

samuk:
[s]Ogane was said to be geographically located East of Benin.

Present day Ife in Osun state is geographically located West of Benin.

Ogane(East)--------Benin----‐--Ife(West)

Europeans visited different part of what is today western Nigeria from Ijebu, Lagos and Oyo, met with Yoruba people between the 1500s to 1826, the Europeans even visited from Sultan Bello of Sokoto who had already written a book about the yoruba people in 1824. In all this encounter, never was a great Ife Kingdom that matches Ogane mentioned to the Europeans.

Yoruba people can't just wake one day and try to move East to West and West to East in a desperate attempt to ascribed to Ife, the status it never attained in history, Ife whose influence does not extend to Modakeke.[/s]

The text’s use of “east” has never been understood by any scholar to be literal — not even Ryder.

Moreover, the word “east” in the texts is not intended to convey direction but to convey name.

One of such long-standing honorific name for Ife is:

“The place where the sun rises from” — ibi tí ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — which in one word literally signifies “east”.

Moreover, see the attached map below (1513) from the same period as the Portuguese text (1549):

And it clearly shows “Regnum Orguene”, i.e. “Realm of the Ọɣọni” on the western side from Benin.

samuk:
Ogane was said to be geographically located East of Benin.

Present day Ife in Osun state is geographically located West of Benin.

Ogane(East)------ Benin --‐--Ife(West)

Europeans visited different part of what is today western Nigeria from Ijebu, Lagos and Oyo, met with Yoruba people between the 1500s to 1826, the Europeans even visited from Sultan Bello of Sokoto who had already written a book about the yoruba people in 1824. In all this encounter, never was a great Ife Kingdom that matches Ogane mentioned to the Europeans.

Yoruba people can't just wake one day and try to move East to West and West to East in a desperate attempt to ascribed to Ife, the status it never attained in history, Ife whose influence does not extend to Modakeke.

Actually it is the Ooni of Ife that Crowns the Ogunsua of Modakeke


If Ife and Modakeke go back to beating themselves up after the Coronation Ceremony that it is a different matter entirely

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2009/09/ooni-crowns-ogunsua-of-modakeke/amp/

christistruth01:




Actually it is the Ooni of Ife that Crowns the Ogunsua of Modakeke


If Ife and Modakeke go back to beating themselves up after the Coronation Ceremony that it is a different matter entirely

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2009/09/ooni-crowns-ogunsua-of-modakeke/amp/

It was a dream come true for the people of Modakeke-Ife, Osun State,        yesterday, when, for the first time, their traditional ruler, the Ogunsua of Modakeke, Oba Francis Adedoyin, was officially crowned by the Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade.

Your post said for the first time. What happened in the previous decades/centuries.

Another reason why Ife and it's cradle of yoruba people story was created in the 1800s, the Awujale of Ijebu is yet to accept that his Ijebu people are from Ife. The Awujale of Ijebu traces the origin of his Ijebu people to Sudan.

samuk:
[s]An interesting perspective on Uhe and Oghene which have been long argued to have existed around the Niger-Benue confluence.
[/i]https://fb.watch/9wltvNkHDF/[i][/s]

In other words, you’re calling on everyone to abandon the submission of historical scholarships and listen to Imasuen who doesn’t know his left from his right.

The psychiatrist who will cure Benin people’s mental illness has got a lot of work to do. Benin jokers

---

Sane readers, please see the consensus of historical scholarship (as attached) for their submission on this.

See also the link below which goes to the thread by @Abohboy where this text is shredded to the tiniest by yours truly.

https://www.nairaland.com/6725935/ogane-east-benin

Cheers.

samuk:
[s]Your post said for the first time. What happened in the previous decades/centuries.[/s]

Oba of Benin have been crowning him naw. /s

After all, Oba of Benin is a Yorùbá Oba as confessed by Akenzua-2 in 1937. Okrrrrr.

[s]Another reason why Ife and it's cradle of yoruba people story was created in the 1800s, the Awujale of Ijebu is yet to accept that his Ijebu people are from Ife. The Awujale of Ijebu traces the origin of his Ijebu people to Sudan.[/s]

Eeeyah. I feel your pain, bitterness, and anguish. Gnash your teeth on boy.

Awujales have always maintained that they’re all from Ife. The past matters more in historical discourse.

Modern developments may have led anyone to react how ever they want.

Fact remains that the past won’t change due to that.

Cheers.
Cc: christistruth01

@samuk;

You are shit-scared to type even one word to address the destructive comments I directed to you as listed:

(1) My reply of 12:54pm On Jan 18, 2022
(2) My reply of 11:22pm On Jan 18, 2022
(3) My reply of 11:42pm On Jan 18, 2022
(4) My reply of 11:51pm On Jan 18, 2022
(5) My reply of 12:18am On Jan 19, 2022
(6) My reply of 04:25am On Jan 19, 2022
(7) My reply of 07:28am On Jan 19, 2022
(8 ) My reply of 07:07pm On Jan 19, 2022


(9) My reply of 08:43am On Jan 21, 2022
(10) My reply of 08:44am On Jan 21, 2022
(11) My reply of 09:28am On Jan 21, 2022
(12) My reply of 11:10am On Jan 22, 2022
(13) My reply of 11:11am On Jan 22, 2022
(14) My reply of 12:33pm On Jan 22, 2022


(15) My reply of 03:12pm On Jan 22, 2022
(16) My reply of 03:12pm On Jan 22, 2022
(17) My reply of 03:18pm On Jan 22, 2022
(18) My reply of 03:18pm On Jan 22, 2022
(19) My reply of 05:27pm On Jan 22, 2022
(20) My reply of 05:56pm On Jan 22, 2022
(21) My reply of 06:30pm On Jan 22, 2022
(22) My reply of 06:40pm On Jan 22, 2022

What exactly are you afraid of in any single one of these comments?

Talk to me. Let's talk woman to man.

Cheers.

The Ijebus are from Waddai in Sudan, Awujale.

In an interview with P.M.NEWS in his palace at Ijebu Ode, the monarch, when reminded of his claim in 1983 that the Ijebus are from Waddai in Sudan, said every tribe in the country migrated from somewhere.

Says Oba Adetona: “Let me tell you, there are ways of settlements, even before Oduduwa came to Ile-Ife, Ife was already in existence. All you just have to do is go to history books, you’ll see all these things there.”

Reminded that the statement is often used against the Ijebus with people regarding them as aliens, Awujale described such act as rubbish, saying “how can they use it against the Ijebus? Who is using it against them? What about others? Are they not from other areas before they settled here?”

Oba Adetona who marked his 76 birthday on 10 May, 2010 said no Nigerian has any right to use the source of migration against another as it is evident all over the world that everybody has his or her roots.

In his royal message, the Awujale advised traditional rulers to steer clear of partisan politics as it is obvious that their subjects can never belong to the same political party and a royal father must not seen to be taking sides.

He told P.M.NEWS that his memorable encounter with the first civilian governor of Ogun State, the late Chief Olabisi Onabanjo, in 1983 occupies a chapter in his book that will be launched tomorrow at the grand finale of his coronation anniversary at the Gateway International stadium, Ijebu-Ode.

On the clash between him and the Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunabde Sijuade, Oba Adetona said: “Don’t forget, people try to say we have differences, no, not at all. I am the Awujale of Ijebuland, my instrument of office says so. Ooni is Ooni of Ile-Ife, the instrument of office given to him states so.

“All the claims he is making now are not correct, they are not tenable. The first time the Obas ever met in Yorubaland was in 1937. Before then, they never met, so I think the man is playing politics, trying to over price himself,” Awujale explained.

Asked if they’ve both met of recent, the paramount ruler exclaimed: “Where and for what!?”

He stressed that they were not competing for anything and he has no cause to go to Ile-Ife just as Ooni has no mission in Ijebuland.

samuk:
[s]The Ijebus are from Waddai in Sudan, Awujale.

In an interview with P.M.NEWS in his palace at Ijebu Ode, the monarch, when reminded of his claim in 1983 that the Ijebus are from Waddai in Sudan, said every tribe in the country migrated from somewhere.

Says Oba Adetona: “Let me tell you, there are ways of settlements, even before Oduduwa came to Ile-Ife, Ife was already in existence. All you just have to do is go to history books, you’ll see all these things there.”

Reminded that the statement is often used against the Ijebus with people regarding them as aliens, Awujale described such act as rubbish, saying “how can they use it against the Ijebus? Who is using it against them? What about others? Are they not from other areas before they settled here?”

Oba Adetona who marked his 76 birthday on 10 May, 2010 said no Nigerian has any right to use the source of migration against another as it is evident all over the world that everybody has his or her roots.

In his royal message, the Awujale advised traditional rulers to steer clear of partisan politics as it is obvious that their subjects can never belong to the same political party and a royal father must not seen to be taking sides.

He told P.M.NEWS that his memorable encounter with the first civilian governor of Ogun State, the late Chief Olabisi Onabanjo, in 1983 occupies a chapter in his book that will be launched tomorrow at the grand finale of his coronation anniversary at the Gateway International stadium, Ijebu-Ode.

On the clash between him and the Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunabde Sijuade, Oba Adetona said: “Don’t forget, people try to say we have differences, no, not at all. I am the Awujale of Ijebuland, my instrument of office says so. Ooni is Ooni of Ile-Ife, the instrument of office given to him states so.

“All the claims he is making now are not correct, they are not tenable. The first time the Obas ever met in Yorubaland was in 1937. Before then, they never met, so I think the man is playing politics, trying to over price himself,” Awujale explained.

Asked if they’ve both met of recent, the paramount ruler exclaimed: “Where and for what!?”

He stressed that they were not competing for anything and he has no cause to go to Ile-Ife just as Ooni has no mission in Ijebuland.[/s]

The ancestors and the predecessors of the present-reigning Awujale all have have something to say

For example:

(1) Marie D’Avezac writings (published in 1845) shows the Ijebu account of their direct Ife roots.

(2) W Stanley Hern’s Report (collected from Ijebu-Ode at the turn of the 1800s & published 1906) states clearly that Ijebu-Ode was founded directly from Ife.

(3) The local historian, D. O. Epega also documented this tradition of the Ijebu-Ode people in his 1919 work, and it states clearly that Ijebu-Ode was founded directly from Ife.

(4) In a joint publication of 1927 by Osinyemi, Banjo, and Osopale (on Ijebu-Igbo, the brother kingdom), it is also mentioned clearly that Ijebu-Ode was founded directly from Ife.

(5) In another document on Ijebu-Mushin (which is also a brother kingdom in the area) from 1933, it is also clearly mentioned that Ijebu-Ode was founded directly from Ife.

(6) The record of proceedings of the first conference of Yoruba monarchs held in 1937 not only shows the then Awujale in attendance, it also states that Ife was the hometown from where their ancestors sprang out originally.

(7) In late 1936, the British had decided a “strange” move which would generate a political reaction from Ijebu-Ode — one Ijebu-Ode man to be precise.

(8 ) They decided to administer Ijebu-Remo as a separate local government authority. It was this move that led to the birth of a Wadai/Sudan tale in the private paper of Chief T. A. Fowakan in 1937.

(9) This tale was unheard of by the people prior to 1937. It was borne out in the context of politics and it is not rooted in the ancient tradition of the people.

(10) Lastly as an appendix; the then Ooni of Ife (in 1903) listed the Awujale among the Yoruba kings who got its ancestral crown directly from Ife since their beginnings.

---

(A) We have now seen that the tradition of Ife origin is the ancient and consistent Ijebu-Ode account originally.

(B) We have seen that the tale of (Wadai) Sudan origin is the one which was later invented in relatively recent time; and in the context of colonial politics.

(C) Archaeological evidence from the moat & wall system of Ijebu-Ode (which proves the existence of an organized Ijebu society) dates centuries before Wadai itself was established.

(D) BTW, all the other Ijebu kingdoms (from beginning to the end) have their account the way it same it has been. And they all say If as it is from the beginning.

Cheers baby

Cc: christistruth01

About lagos again what was in lagos history before was Ashipa was from Benin until 19th century when Yoruba people started bringing Yoruba connection. But never the less history has it that he came from Benin with other royal chief send with him by Oba of Benin to join him in governing Eko.

And I posted a sword of royalty of the present Oba of Lagos and Yoruba guy here supported it by showing Oni of ife with a sword meaning it was given to him by Oni lol.

It funny how much you people are trying to rewrite everything, history also has it that this sword was given to him by Oba of Benin.

Eletu Odibo is and Edo name and had nothing to do with Yoruba. his history and power in Eko.

The Eletu Odibo of Lagos is the traditional nobleman that has historically served as the principal kingmaker of the Oba of Lagos. As head of the Akarigbere class of chiefs, the Eletu Odibo also serves as the prime minister of the Oba of Eko.

History and how he go to Eko.
The Oba of Benin deployed a group of Benin officers along with his war captain, Ashipa, to preserve Benin's interests in Lagos affairs. The Eletu Odibo was the head of this group who accompanied Ashipa to Lagos.


Kingmaking role.
When the Ashongbon (Head War Chief) informs the Eletu Odibo about the vacancy of the Obaship, the Eletu verifies the vacancy by visiting Iga Idunganran, the royal palace. After confirmation, the Eletu returns to his sanctuary where he consults the Ifa Oracle with names of all of the eligible males from the Lagos Ruling Houses in order to receive a divine pronouncement. The Eletu and the Ashongbon then summon a meeting where the Obaship candidate is presented. Those who attend the presentation include: the Omo-Obas (the various royals), the Ibigas (slaves), White Cap Chiefs, War Chiefs, and representatives of communities that owe allegiance to the Oba of Lagos.


Kosoko's 1st Obaship bid frustrated by Eletu Odibo.
When Oba Osinlokun died in 1829, Kosoko's brother, Idewu Ojulari, became Oba and reigned from 1829 to around 1834/5. Idewu Ojulari's reign was unpopular, however, and at the behest of the Oba of Benin, to whom the people of Lagos had petitioned (Lagos was under Benin suzerainty up until the reigns of Oba Akitoye and Dosunmu, who rebuffed the payment of tribute to Benin),[4] Idewu Ojulari committed suicide. Since Kosoko was now unacceptable to Eletu Odibo, the Kingmakers invited the exiled Adele home from Badagry to rule as Oba of Lagos for a second term.


All this i posted are in history you can search them yourself I just posted it here because that Yoruba guy that think rewriting Eko history will help him in achieving his goal in life.

Jameseddi1:
[s]About lagos again what was in lagos history before was Ashipa was from Benin until 19th century when Yoruba people started bringing Yoruba connection.[/s]

Lol.
No. What was invented and published much later is the Benin tale about Aṣipa (Ashipa).

On the other hand, the Lagos account of Aṣipa is the earliest. The date of my reference from Sir Alan Burns is 1929 (and even from Woods is 1878).

The date of your WiKiPeDiA, on the other hand dates to after 2001 (or even Egharevba’s Bini reaction, 1953). Lol.

[s]But never the less history has it that he came from Benin with other royal chief send with him by Oba of Benin to join him in governing Eko.

And I posted a sword of royalty of the present Oba of Lagos and Yoruba guy here supported it by showing Oni of ife with a sword meaning it was given to him by Oni lol.

It funny how much you people are trying to rewrite everything, history also has it that this sword was given to him by Oba of Benin.[/s]

(1) Lagos account makes it clear that Ashipa began to rule the island Eko which hitherto is a territory of the Oloto of Ìddó/Otto.

(2) In order to appropriate that particular island (Eko) for himself, he formed a coalition with the immigrants who had come to establish trade settlements there.

(3) In due course, he particularly courted the support of the Benin government (whose citizens were also on the island) by leading the delegation who took home the corpse of a Bini leader (Asheru) who died at Iṣeri.

(3) At Benin, he strengthened the ties even further by marrying from the royal family. This union produced his son Ado who was born there in Benin.

(4) On returning from Benin, he is now certain of not only the masses’ support, but also the support of one of their kings — the then Benin king.

(5) He established a new monarchy for that particular island — a monarchy which carved out Eko for itself, away from the control of the Oloto.

(6) On returning from Benin, the Benin king sent some important Bini citizens with him to ensure that he does not forget the interest of Benin too in his government.

(7) In all, the Lagos account makes it crystal clear that Ashipa is a Yorùbá man (Awori to be precise) from the place called Iṣeri, along the Ogun river in Lagos.

(8 ) His son Ado who is descended from the Benin king via his (Ado’s) mother-side was later sent to Eko after Ashipa’s reign.

(9) Ado thus becomes enshrined in Lagos traditions as the first official/crowned-king of Eko; even though his father (the progenitor of the dynasty) is also treated as king.

(10) As such, the Eko kings were bound to their Benin counterpart by a strong tie of gratitude which is often recognized by remittances and confirmation honor.

In fact, the royal corpse of certain Eko kings are sent to Benin — but after the head had been removed.

The head is removed only to show that here in Lagos is the land of their fathers patrilineally. Recall that the head always stays with the fathers’ land and the body with the mother’s’ land — just as with IFe & Benin.

---

Appendix:
The point made by @christistruth01 about the Ada & Abẹ[n]rẹ[n] is not that the Ọọni despatched them to the Eko dynasty. Of course not.

That must have been despatched (or borrowed) from Benin during the Aṣipa- Benin patron-protege pact.

His point, however, is that the source of Benin’s Ada & Abẹñrẹñ [Bini: Ẹbẹñrẹñ, and recently Ẹbẹñ] in the first place is actually Ifẹ.

In other words, it’s a Yorùbá heritage ab-initio. That is all he was saying. Shikena.

This is backed by surviving cultural/ethnographic, and even epigraphic/archaeological evidence in Ife.

Cheers.

Jameseddi1:
[s]Eletu Odibo is and Edo name and had nothing to do with Yoruba. his history and power in Eko.

The Eletu Odibo of Lagos is the traditional nobleman that has historically served as the principal kingmaker of the Oba of Lagos. As head of the Akarigbere class of chiefs, the Eletu Odibo also serves as the prime minister of the Oba of Eko.

History and how he go to Eko.
The Oba of Benin deployed a group of Benin officers along with his war captain, Ashipa, to preserve Benin's interests in Lagos affairs. The Eletu Odibo was the head of this group who accompanied Ashipa to Lagos.


Kingmaking role.
When the Ashongbon (Head War Chief) informs the Eletu Odibo about the vacancy of the Obaship, the Eletu verifies the vacancy by visiting Iga Idunganran, the royal palace. After confirmation, the Eletu returns to his sanctuary where he consults the Ifa Oracle with names of all of the eligible males from the Lagos Ruling Houses in order to receive a divine pronouncement. The Eletu and the Ashongbon then summon a meeting where the Obaship candidate is presented. Those who attend the presentation include: the Omo-Obas (the various royals), the Ibigas (slaves), White Cap Chiefs, War Chiefs, and representatives of communities that owe allegiance to the Oba of Lagos.


Kosoko's 1st Obaship bid frustrated by Eletu Odibo.
When Oba Osinlokun died in 1829, Kosoko's brother, Idewu Ojulari, became Oba and reigned from 1829 to around 1834/5. Idewu Ojulari's reign was unpopular, however, and at the behest of the Oba of Benin, to whom the people of Lagos had petitioned (Lagos was under Benin suzerainty up until the reigns of Oba Akitoye and Dosunmu, who rebuffed the payment of tribute to Benin),[4] Idewu Ojulari committed suicide. Since Kosoko was now unacceptable to Eletu Odibo, the Kingmakers invited the exiled Adele home from Badagry to rule as Oba of Lagos for a second term.

All this i posted are in history you can search them yourself I just posted it here because that Yoruba guy that think rewriting Eko history will help him in achieving his goal in life.[/s]

First of all, Eletu is a Yorùbá word. Benin seem to have it too.

Secondly, read my foregoing comment to realize that I’m aware that Aṣipa initiated a relationship with Benin which led him to be accompanied by important Bini courtiers on his return back home to Eko.

What you don’t realize is that the general role of those who accompanied him is, as it is said, is to ensure that he doesn’t forget the interest of Benin too.

There wouldn’t have been any need for such concern if he was a Benin son. They would have accompanied him for some other reasons completely.

In any case, the attached shows the reigning king of Eko — Ọba Akioku — on his installation day with the installation crown.

Does that installation crown look like an Edo one to you?

Be honest.

Cheers.

TAO11:
What did I just read? This sounds like the greatest joke anyone has ever cracked to me. Lol.

First of all, the criterion is not changing. You too must provide a first hand report from an eyewitnesses who spelt out the word “empire” to describe your Benin.

We have seen such reports for Oyo, let’s see the Benin version— where it was termed “empire” by observers.

---

BTW, “self evidence” sounds to me as calling yourself an “empire”. And that’s an evidence that you’re indeed one?? I’m dead.

And “world acclaimed” sounds like certain people who didn’t see it calls it an “empire”. LMAO!

To add a thing to this “world-acclaimed” part: Almost all the ‘reputable’ (non-firsthand) sources on the topic do not consider precolonial Benin to be an “empire”:

(A) The University of Iowa: https://africa.uima.uiowa.edu/peoples/show/Benin+Kingdom

(B) Encyclopaedia Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/place/Benin-historical-kingdom-West-Africa

(C), National Geographic: https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/kingdom-benin/

(D) Khan Academy: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-africa/west-africa/nigeria/a/the-kingdom-of-benin

Do a quick ‘Google Search’ of “Benin Empire” to see it for yourself. Notice how the reputable results simply regards precolonial Benin as a Kingdom.

Try a similar search for “Oyo Empire” and observe the sharp contrast — from those same reputable results and perhaps more still.

It is not surprising that this is the case since there are no firsthand/eyewitness report which regards Benin to be an empire. And we’ve seen exactly that for Oyo.


Lol. So, you mean that Hausaland was superior to the British Empire when it “relied on” Hausa troops for its punishment meted out to your Benin kingdom?

This is not a circus show, samuk. You have to stop the clowning. Wake up and smell the coffee. Wake up into the real world. Kiss reality.



Your comment here is a typical example of the fallacy called “false analogy”.

Argument from analogy is invalid when it is presented in such a way that the properties present in one case are not found (or are suppressed) in the second case.

The case 1 here is old-Oyo; and its relevant property is that it is the capital of an empire — per eyewitnesses.

The case 2 (you introduced here) is America; and it is, strictly speaking, not the capital of an empire.

What you could have done was to have cited an actual historical empire. You see the “inconsistency”.

Even if you’ll insist on citing America, you could have been more consistent by first presenting it as though it’s the head of an empire — with provinces/interests in some parts of the world today.

By so doing, it contains parallel with the actual case it was cited for — that is, the old-Oyo case — after which you may then proceed to analyze.

With the stage now properly set for analysis, it should have become clear to you now why America may send to Nigeria, et al. for backup if there is any need for the U.S. to address rebellion/conflict in places which are provincial/of interest to America (say: S-Korea) on the grounds that America and Nigeria, et al. have friendly relations with each other.

This is how to argue from analogy. Notice the parallel in the two cases was clear before examining what the conclusion is. And as it’s obvious the conclusion shows clearly that you’re wrong again.

Cheers!

Omo, no mercy le lei o. I'm starting to believe the bini boys assertion you are transgender

TAO11:
First of all, Eletu is a Yorùbá word. Benin seem to have it too.

Secondly, read my foregoing comment to realize that I’m aware that Aṣipa initiated a relationship with Benin which led him to be accompanied by important Bini courtiers on his return back home to Eko.

What you don’t realize is that the general role of those who accompanied him is, as it is said, is to ensure that he doesn’t forget the interest of Benin too.

There wouldn’t have been any need for such concern if he was a Benin son. They would have accompanied him for some other reasons completely.

In any case, the attached shows the reigning king of Eko — Ọba Akioku — on his installation day with the installation coronation.

Does that installation crown look like an Edo one to you?

Be honest.

Cheers.

So what you are trying to say is that Ashipa didn’t come from Edo

Ashipa only gave his son Edo because his mother was from Edo.

If Ashipa didn’t come from Edo why did history has it that Odibo followed him with other chiefs from Edo.

1 How come someone that came from Edo (Odibo) immigrant has a power to elect or remove any Oba from Lagos.

2 How come not 1 but all the white cap chiefs of lagos are from Edo immigrants as you call it

How come Ashipa died in Lagose and was buried in (his father house)Edo

How come lagose was paying tax to Edo till 19th or 18th century

How come he was given a royal sword of othority from Oba of Benin

How come his prime ministers was from Edo Odibo like the rest Edo colony

Example Iyasere of Warri.


How come someone from Yoruba give his son Edo name.

Soon you you people will still go rewrite that his prim minister Odibo was a Yoruba origin I saw you already started saying Yoruba also answer Elutu.


I know Yoruba has Bering rewriting history since 19th century but let me tell you this Ashipa history will really be hard to be rewrite because European witness it they saw how he came from Benin that why in history the most acceptable is the general account of his Edo origin and the other one they just categorize it as Yoruba account.


I will not be surprised to see Eluto Odibo is now also Yoruba descendant as you said Yoruba also use that name.

You also said on his way returning from Benin to Lagos.

No history account has it that awori enter Benin city from 16 15 century if there is any account or eyewitness you can bring it here.

The only history account was Benin who always go to Eko to trade.

In Eko it was Awori/Ado or Edo citizen. As Awori begin to form superior that was when Oba of Benin send his War general Ashipa to go coordinate them. History never said awori crossed to Benin it was always Benin who went from their town to there.

So how did Yoruba now just wake up one morning and turn everything around?

In today Eko they are still some white chife cap and old Edo citizen in there before descendant now that only speak Yoruba ok because they speak Yoruba now they are now Yoruba origin?

The award for the greatest “dundee” of the year goes to no one else but you. Hurray.

You must learn the habit of reading the very comment which you type your replies to. It makes you appear a little less stupid at least.

Jameseddi1:
[s]So what you are trying to say is that Ashipa didn’t come from Edo

Ashipa only gave his son Edo because his mother was from Edo.[/s]

There is a difference between the phrase “Edo name” and the phrase “the name, Edo”. Big difference!

Ado (aka. Edo) is actually the name of your capital city where he was born & raised by his mother-side.

He was sent for from Eko to rule the Eko island after his father’s (Ashipa’s) demise.

It is a Yorùbá practice to fondly name a child after the foreign town of his birth. Hence his name Edo or Ado which the tradition has passed down today.

It is not uncommon (in Yorùbá practice till date) that a child born and raised in a foreign land (say: Ikire for example) will be called by that very word (i.e. Ikire) in the original homeland of his parent(s).

[s]If Ashipa didn’t come from Edo why did history has it that Odibo followed him with other chiefs from Edo.[/s]

Going forward, make sure to read before you reply.

I addressed this question in my comment where I wrote that:

“(1) Lagos account makes it clear that Ashipa began to rule the island Eko which hitherto is a territory of the Oloto of Ìddó/Otto.

(2) In order to appropriate that particular island (Eko) for himself, he formed a coalition with the immigrants who had come to establish trade settlements there.

(3) In due course, he particularly courted the support of the Benin government (whose citizens were also on the island) by leading the delegation who took home the corpse of a Bini leader (Asheru) who died at Iṣeri.

(4) At Benin, he strengthened the ties even further by marrying from the royal family. This union produced his son Ado who was born there in Benin.

(5) On returning from Benin, he is now certain of not only the masses’ support, but also the support of one of their kings — the then Benin king.

(6) He established a new monarchy for that particular island — a monarchy which carved out Eko for itself, away from the control of the Oloto.

(7) [/color]On returning from Benin, the Benin king sent some important Bini citizens with him to ensure that he does not forget the interest of Benin too in his government.

(8 ) In all, the Lagos account makes it crystal clear that Ashipa is a Yorùbá man (Awori to be precise) from the place called Iṣeri, along the Ogun river in Lagos.“

In my comment which followed that one (i.e. the one you’ve tagged here), I also added that:

What you don’t realize is that the general role of those who accompanied him is, as it is said, is to ensure that he doesn’t forget the interest of Benin too.

There wouldn’t have been any need for such concern if he was a Benin son. They would have accompanied him for some other reasons completely.

I may have to call you out (i.e. insult you) if you would not stop asking the very question that is addressed. In other words, read before you type.

[s]1 How come someone that came from Edo (Odibo) immigrant has a power to elect or remove any Oba from Lagos[/s]

Not exactly. He has no such power to elect/remove a King.

His power, as conferred on him by the people, is that:

(1) He is the custodian of Ifa (the royal oracle) which he consults — after the royal family have decided on their choices of eligible princes.

(2) He (alongside the Ashigbon) announces the result of his Ifa consultation. Again, this royal oracle is in his custody at his residence.

(3) He is charged with the duty of literally placing the crown on the head of the incoming Oba.
———
As per removing the Eleko, only the people have such powers. If successfully deposed in precolonial Yoruba society, he is expected to join his ancestors.

The king is regarded as a sacred figure whose sacred character does not permit to return to his pre-kingly ordinary status.

[s]2 How come not 1 but all the white cap chiefs of lagos are from Edo immigrants as you call it[/s]

This is the funniest of all your jokes.

The term “white-cap chief” as used in Eko island toda is a collective term for the chiefs because they all wea white caps today.

However, the only people who originally wore the cap are the descendants of the Olofin (now Oloto) of Iddo & Otto.

It has been their symbol of aristocracy even before th Bini immigrants dreamt of coming to seek permission to land on Eko island.

“The custom of the Lagos chiefs to wear “white caps” came originally from Iddo, and was introduced by the ten sons of the Olofin, whose successors still wear similar caps.” ~ A. C. Burns, (1929), p. 42.

[s]How come Ashipa died in Lagose and was buried in (his father house) Edo[/s]

Except that Edo (Benin) is not his father’s house, nor is Edo (Benin) his mother’s house. As such he was not buried there in any way shape or form.

Yes, I know you may be thinking: But WiKiPeDiA said he was buried in Benin. Sorry to disappoint you, ther is no reference given for such crap on wiKiPeDiA.

The only burial custom in relation to which there is a scholarly support or statement is that certain crowne kings of Eko were taken to Benin for burial — but tha this was done after the head of the corpse must have been removed.

This practice therefore begins with Ado (who was the first crowned king). This custom also show that Ado’s mother is the Bini, while his father-side is Lagos.

Remember, the “head” stays with the father-side, whil the “body” goes to the mother-side just as with Ife & Benin kingdoms where the “head” is for Ife.

Ashipa is from Isheri-Lagos as the Lagos account have stated. This burial custom have now also confirmed it.

[s]How come lagose was paying tax to Edo till 19th or 18th century

How come he was given a royal sword of othority from Oba of Benin

How come his prime ministers was from Edo Odibo like the rest Edo colony[/s]

First of all, it’s not “tax”. Lol. It’s called “tribute” — sth given or contributed voluntarily as due or deserved especially: a gift or service showing respect, gratitude, or affection..

I addressed all these already. Like I said earlier, make sure to read what you type replies to. Here you go:

(1) Lagos account makes it clear that Ashipa began to rule the island Eko which hitherto is a territory of the Oloto of Ìddó/Otto.

(2) In order to appropriate that particular island (Eko) for himself, he formed a coalition with the immigrants who had come to establish trade settlements there.

(3) In due course, he particularly courted the support of the Benin government (whose citizens were also on the island) by leading the delegation who took home the corpse of a Bini leader (Asheru) who died at Iṣeri.

(3) At Benin, he strengthened the ties even further by marrying from the royal family. This union produced his son Ado who was born there in Benin.

(4) On returning from Benin, he is now certain of not only the masses’ support, but also the support of one of their kings — the then Benin king.

(5) He established a new monarchy for that particular island — a monarchy which carved out Eko for itself, away from the control of the Oloto.

(6) On returning from Benin, the Benin king sent some important Bini citizens with him to ensure that he does not forget the interest of Benin too in his government.

(7) In all, the Lagos account makes it crystal clear that Ashipa is a Yorùbá man (Awori to be precise) from the place called Iṣeri, along the Ogun river in Lagos.

(8 ) His son Ado who is descended from the Benin king via his (Ado’s) mother-side was later sent to Eko after Ashipa’s reign.

(9) Ado thus becomes enshrined in Lagos traditions as the first official/crowned-king of Eko; even though his father (the progenitor of the dynasty) is also treated as king.

(10) As such, the Eko kings were bound to their Benin counterpart by a strong tie of gratitude which is often recognized by remittances and confirmation honor.

In fact, the royal corpse of certain Eko kings are sent to Benin — but after the head had been removed.

The head is removed only to show that here in Lagos is the land of their fathers patrilineally. Recall that the head always stays with the fathers’ land and the body with the mother’s’ land — just as with IFe & Benin.

---

Appendix:
The point made by @christistruth01 about the Ada & Abẹ[n]rẹ[n] is not that the Ọọni despatched them to the Eko dynasty. Of course not.

That must have been despatched (or borrowed) from Benin during the Aṣipa- Benin patron-protege pact.

His point, however, is that the source of Benin’s Ada & Abẹñrẹñ [Bini: Ẹbẹñrẹñ, and recently Ẹbẹñ] in the first place is actually Ifẹ.

In other words, it’s a Yorùbá heritage ab-initio. That is all he was saying. Shikena.

This is backed by surviving cultural/ethnographic, and even epigraphic/archaeological evidence in Ife.

Example Iyasere of Warri

Well, Warri is not Eko. Two completely and entirely different place in far apart different “states”.

Moreover, the ruling dynasty of Benin which reigns at Warri was actually originally from Ife. Yorubaland.

But this is even different from the Eko instance as the two accounts have shown differently.

[s]How come someone from Yoruba give his son Edo name[/s]

No, he wasn’t given an “Edo name” you fraud.

There is a difference between the phrase “Edo name” and the phrase “the name, Edo”. Big difference.

Ado (aka. Edo) is actually the name of your capital city where he was born & raised by his mother-side.

He was sent for from Eko to rule the Eko island after his father’s (Ashipa’s) demise.

It is a Yorùbá practice to fondly name a child after the foreign town of his birth. Hence his name Edo or Ado which the tradition has passed down today.

It is not uncommon (in Yorùbá practice till date) that a child born and raised in a foreign land (say: Ikire for example) will be called by that very word (i.e. Ikire) in the original homeland of his parent(s).

[s]Soon you you people will still go rewrite that his prim minister Odibo was a Yoruba origin I saw you already started saying Yoruba also answer Elutu.[/s]

No, available traditions makes the Eletu-Odibo family to be originally of Bini descent. The first being one of the Bini courtiers delegated to follow Ashipa so that he doesn’t forget Benin interest too as he focuses on his Yorùbá people.

However, the word “Eletu” is what I noted to be a pure Yorùbá word — which may also be present in Bini.

I know Yoruba has Bering rewriting history since 19th century but let me tell you this Ashipa history will really be hard to be rewrite because European witness it they saw how he came from Benin that why in history the most acceptable is the general account of his Edo origin and the other one they just categorize it as Yoruba account.

This is the exact point I’ve been making to you Benin fraudsters/revisionists.

No matter how hard you Bini revisionists try, you will never be able to successfully re-write Ashipa’s history.

The reasons being that. There is no one in the history of Benin who goes by the name or title Ashipa.

If taken to be a Bini word, “Ashipa” will have no single meaning whatsoever. But it’s meaning is clear without any trouble in the Yoruba language.

Also, no human being can possibly have their name as “we shall not desert this place”. This patchwork simply makes zero sense.

The burial custom of retaining the royal “heads” of hi descendants in Lagos (while the “body” is transported to their maternal land) also shows Ashipa is Yorùbá.

This burial custom aligns with the Yoruba adage: “orí adé kì í sùn ìta” — “the crowned-head isn’t interred in a foreign land”.

Furthermore, the earliest recorded tradition on Aṣipa and his roots is that recorded by the Europeans, and it states that: Ashipa is Yorùbá from Isheri in Lagos.

If there is anyone who is re-writing Ashipa’s history, it is certainly the Binis who came up with a revision in the 1900s.

[s]I will not be surprised to see Eluto Odibo is now also Yoruba descendant as you said Yoruba also use that name.[/s]

Again, our history doesn’t say he is. Otherwise, I will have educated you on that too.

My specific point in that respect is about the prefix. I noted that the word word “Eletu” is a Yorùbá word.

Whether or not Bini too uses the same word or not is neither my point nor business.

Cheers.