TLona1:


During Pep's time, 4 balon d'ors in 4 years.

After Pep, 3 balon d'Ors in 9 years.

Do the maths.

In those 9 years how many did prime Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Puyol played in? Your maths is wack if you don't consider some variables.

CAPdan21:

E nor concern me whether Pep is a Fraud tho we might visit this later if ATM dumps Pep out....Saying Pep made Messi is like saying Sir Alex made Ronaldo or all that bullshit...It's why in table tennis Nadal, Federer and Djokovic would still dominate with me as their coach but no table tennis coach can make an Andy Murray a Federer...My point in a nutshell, Messi would have been great regardless of Pep

Why I understand where you're driving at, but it's not really straight forward as you're making it sound.

See Rashford for example. He'll always thank Van gaal for giving him the opportunity and entrusting him into that number 9 position. While you might say his talent might shine through, but we really don't know if we would have still known Rashford till now If not that exposure. Check Man u thread and see how Midfield talents are not exposed due to the coach not promoting and using any of them.

Aside Exposure, there's still player usage. Pep made Messi the focal point of that team eliminating the big boys which made his goal tally increase. The next season sef, he made him as a number 9 thus making his tally increase even more. While I don't doubt Messi had the talents but you Pep ensured he maximized his talents(to Barca and Messi benefits) to the fullest

airmark:


So it's the best version of Gabriel Jesus we have in Man city.

Since Pep cannot buy UCL trophy with 1bn+ na to do attache to another man greatness...Lmao

CAPdan21:

Another nonsense argument...Salah under klopp posted 43 goals in his first season after scoring 15 or 16 goals the previous season...since then Salah has not hit 40 goals, if klopp had left after that season we will now start hearing how klopp made Salah...70+ goals is an anomaly even for Messi

We could see the trajectory of Messi goals rising with every season until ep left and it dropped

Klopp made the best version of Salah simple until another coach beats that number he made under Klopp

CAPdan21:

E nor concern me whether Pep is a Fraud tho we might visit this later if ATM dumps Pep out....Saying Pep made Messi is like saying Sir Alex made Ronaldo or all that bullshit...It's why in table tennis Nadal, Federer and Djokovic would still dominate with me as their coach but no table tennis coach can make an Andy Murray a Federer...My point in a nutshell, Messi would have been great regardless of Pep

raumdeuter:


He will soon ask why JS Park, Nani, Tevez etc did not become Ronaldo under Ferguson

airmark:


In those 9 years how many did prime Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Puyol played in? Your maths is wack if you don't consider some variables.

Kukuma say make Valdez win ballon d or

Baba agenda

Jodera:
Why I understand where you're driving at, but it's not really straight forward as you're making it sound.

See Rashford for example. He'll always thank Van gaal for giving him the opportunity and entrusting him into that number 9 position. While you might say his talent might shine through, but we really don't know if we would have still known Rashford till now If not that exposure. Check Man u thread and see how Midfield talents are not exposed due to the coach not promoting and using any of them.

Aside Exposure, there's still player usage. Pep made Messi the focal point of that team eliminating the big boys which made his goal tally increase. The next season sef, he made him as a number 9 thus making his tally increase even more. While I don't doubt Messi had the talents but you Pep ensured he maximized his talents(to Barca and Messi benefits) to the fullest

Simple question : Did Messis talent leave him the moment Pep left?

CAPdan21:

E nor concern me whether Pep is a Fraud tho we might visit this later if ATM dumps Pep out....Saying Pep made Messi is like saying Sir Alex made Ronaldo or all that bullshit...It's why in table tennis Nadal, Federer and Djokovic would still dominate with me as their coach but no table tennis coach can make an Andy Murray a Federer...My point in a nutshell, Messi would have been great regardless of Pep

Why then has Nadal, Federer and Djokovic not appointed you as their coach?

raumdeuter:


If you know a better version let us know

Na mumu version Fraudiola turn am to. A striker now scoring 2 goals in 21 matches. Nobody will even pay the amount City paid to get him.

Jodera:
Why I understand where you're driving at, but it's not really straight forward as you're making it sound.

See Rashford for example. He'll always thank Van gaal for giving him the opportunity and entrusting him into that number 9 position. While you might say his talent might shine through, but we really don't know if we would have still known Rashford till now If not that exposure. Check Man u thread and see how Midfield talents are not exposed due to the coach not promoting and using any of them.

Aside Exposure, there's still player usage. Pep made Messi the focal point of that team eliminating the big boys which made his goal tally increase. The next season sef, he made him as a number 9 thus making his tally increase even more. While I don't doubt Messi had the talents but you Pep ensured he maximized his talents(to Barca and Messi benefits) to the fullest

Saying Pep maximized Messi talent I would not have argued with... Saying he made Messi is a travesty I suppose only hear from cr7 fangirls

CAPdan21:

Another nonsense argument...Salah under klopp posted 43 goals in his first season after scoring 15 or 16 goals the previous season...since then Salah has not hit 40 goals, if klopp had left after that season we will now start hearing how klopp made Salah...70+ goals is an anomaly even for Messi

Brilliant.

Raumdeuter sabi lead his sheep into a dungeon and abscond.

raumdeuter:


Why then has Nadal, Federer and Djokovic not appointed you as their coach?

The same reason Apari Fraudiola has not appointed you his Lawyer despite you being fellow Apari in arms...

airmark:


Stop turning fact on its head.

What Hensben told you was that Messi was in top form and that made Fraudiola win his UCLs. You countered it by asking



For your information, people knew Messi before Fraudiola coached Barca and definitely was developing without him. In fact he won UCL before him and the previous season before Fraudiola joined, he scored 6 goals in UCL. He was a blessing to Fraudiola.

Even Raumdeuter called Fraudiola, a fraud at Bayern.

He was developing but the height he reached was courtesy of Pep. Stats says so, the team was built around him in one of the most beautiful Barca in history and his goal tally increased.

If it was that easy to win treble with young prime Messi, why was young prime Messi always crashing out with Argentina national team in any FIFA or conmebol competition?

raumdeuter:


Simple question : Did Messis talent leave him the moment Pep left?

Nope..

And some Chelshit fans will claim United fans carry Messi matter for head ...

CAPdan21:

Saying Pep maximized Messi talent I would not have argued with... Saying he made Messi is a travesty I suppose only hear from cr7 fangirls

But na wetin bring you come the argument na. Na almost the same thing

You said put Messi with big Sam and he'll post same numbers. From what I understood, it means big Sam will maximize Messi the way pep did. Aside agenda, we all know that's a lie

Even Xavi and iniesta didn't have that great height pre-Pep even though they're known before.

And that's the work of world class coach

airmark:




Jodera reasoning like Raumdeuter is disappointing.

Jodera:
But na wetin bring you come the argument na. Na almost the same thing

You saidI put Messi with big Sam and he'll post same numbers. From what I understood, it means big Sam will maximize Messi the way pep did. Aside agenda, we all know that's a lie

Even Xavi and iniesta didn't have that great height pre-Pep even though they're known before.

And that's the work of world class coach

I said he would shine not put up thesame numbers..I made the comparison to show that messi's greatness was not a matter of 'if' but 'when'

Please nobody expected Messi to be dropping those numbers. Don't come here to be typing nonsense about Messi greatness being a matter of 'if' but 'when'.

says nobody but means "I".....Lmao

Jodera:
You're just the follow up of those earlier arguments na

If you don't know that it's good coaches and clubs that makes players great and mostly not otherwise. Many players have entered doldrums or haven't reached the expected heights because of the kinda coach or club they met

Pep didn't make Messi. Pep has never publicly or privately taken even the smallest credit for Messi's greatest. Instead, Pep would continually tell you he is in awe of Messi and Leo being the greatest player he has ever seen; and has kept saying this even at the other club(s) he managed/manages.

Nobody makes players like Messi, Ronaldinho and CR (as much I love to troll him). They are icings on the cakes of any decent coach and team.
Messi won an average and drab coach like Luis Enrique the Treble.
Simeone would have more trophies with peak Messi, Ronaldo or Ronaldinho. That truth is as certain as Will Smith simping.

CAPdan21:

I said he would shine not put up thesame numbers..I made the comparison to show that messi's greatness was not a matter of 'if' but 'when'

He might shine, but probably not at that height we all know.

Shine pass shine and we know that. Say Raphinha dey shine no mean say him be left footed Salah

CAPdan21:

I said he would shine not put up thesame numbers..I made the comparison to show that messi's greatness was not a matter of 'if' but 'when'

Why was Messi not putting up those numbers before Pep and after Pep

10yrs since Pep left Messi and we never saw those numbers again

Jodera:
He might shine, but probably not at that height we all know.

Shine pass shine and we know that. Say Raphinha dey shine no mean say him be left footed Salah

Without Pep Messi would be a great player but he would never do 70goals a season

Same way without Klopp Salah will never become a 20 goals a season attacker

DissTroy:


Pep didn't make Messi. Pep has never publicly or privately taken even the smallest credit for Messi's greatest. Instead, Pep would continually tell you he is in awe of Messi and Leo being the greatest player he has ever seen; and has kept saying this even at the other club(s) he managed/manages.

Nobody makes players like Messi, Ronaldinho and CR (as much I love to troll him). They are icings on the cakes of any decent coach and team.
Messi won an average and drab coach like Luis Enrique the Treble.
Simeone would have more with peak Messi, Ronaldo or Ronaldinho. That truth is as certain as Will Smith simping.

Keep mute Messi didn't win sh.itt for Enrique. Enrique assembled and created a well balanced team with the fulcrum being Messi, Neymar and Suarez. Why didn't Messi win the treble for Tata Martino or the numerous coaches he had ever since?

Before u join them say "football is coming home", remember once upon a time at the 2014 World Cup.....It ended in tears

When the team wins the champions league or treble it becomes Messi carried this coach to this and that with zero acknowledgement for the Coach but when they lose or get disgraced it becomes the Coach fault. You better check yourself.

DissTroy:


Pep didn't make Messi. Pep has never publicly or privately taken even the smallest credit for Messi's greatest. Instead, Pep would continually tell you he is in awe of Messi and Leo being the greatest player he has ever seen; and has kept saying this even at the other club(s) he managed/manages.

Nobody makes players like Messi, Ronaldinho and CR (as much I love to troll him). They are icings on the cakes of any decent coach and team.
Messi won an average and drab coach like Luis Enrique the Treble.
Simeone would have more with peak Messi, Ronaldo or Ronaldinho. That truth is as certain as Will Smith simping.

Oga, this was MSN era na.

We can say all we want but great coaches maximize great players potential to the fullest. While potential differs, but if a great potential player meets an average team or coach, his potential is not fully maximized.

Salah is a good example. Chased away from Chelsea even when he had WC potential. Just a good player at Serie A(across fiorentina and Roma) but turned into a World class player as he met Klopp. We can say all we want to say from hindsight, but we all know he won't be this heralded if Sam Allardyce bought him from As Roma instead of Klopp

Jodera:
He might shine, but probably not at that height we all know.

Shine pass shine and we know that. Say Raphinha dey shine no mean say him be left footed Salah

Van dijk was balling at Southampton and got offers from all the top clubs in England...I don't expect raphinha to be in Leeds next season...dem nor dey hide shine, Messi greatness is sure

Leeemao

Does Simeone even look like a coach that can handle attack minded players like Xavi, Iniesta or the GOAT Messi? The weyrey will use park the bus to frustrate their lives.

Ronaldo for Don get like 12 Balon D'or now if messi played under Simeone instead.

raumdeuter:


Without Pep Messi would be a great player but he would never do 70goals a season

Same way without Klopp Salah will never become a 20 goals a season attacker

Exactly what some people don't know.
They think it's just normal talent that's playing.
They don't know the work and enabling environment most of these coaches put into to turn these players into World class.