Hello everyone,

It is often agreed that all the evil in the world comes from humanity through our free will and not from God. Yet God created humanity and the ability of free will we possess. Why would God who is good and against all evil create creatures who have the potential for evil?

Is God a member of nairaland?
Abi na boys wey say all Nigerian girls are useless you dey ask?

Anormalguy:
Hello everyone,

It is often agreed that all the evil in the world comes from humanity through our free will and not from God. Yet God created humanity and the ability of free will we possess. Why would God who is good and against all evil create creatures who have the potential for evil?

What aspect of living and being able to make choices that directly impact your existence are you having a problem with?

Why is God not allowed to create the kind of creatures He sees fit to create?

Anormalguy:
Hello everyone,

It is often agreed that all the evil in the world comes from humanity through our free will and not from God. Yet God created humanity and the ability of free will we possess. Why would God who is good and against all evil create creatures who have the potential for evil?

Potential for evil is not evil like battery acid is potentially evil.

But the battery acid is also potentially good.

So what then is evil?

Evil means unlawful use which causes harm

And the potential to harm or to refrain from harming lies in the exercise of your power to act freely aka freewill

Kobojunkie:
What aspect of living and being able to make choices that directly impact your existence are you having a problem with?

Why is God not allowed to create the kind of creatures He sees fit to create?

God made everything "perfect"

hayoholla:
God made everything "perfect"

And?

Kobojunkie:
What aspect of living and being able to make choices that directly impact your existence are you having a problem with?

Why is God not allowed to create the kind of creatures He sees fit to create?

The ability to make choices that directly impact ones existence makes sense to me but I do not understand the logic as to why that ability also has the potential for evil choices when the ability is made by a God who is good and incapable of evil.

Say an engineer were designing an item, ideally he will make that item with as little possibility for fault as he can but the engineer is limited by his abilities and nature so there will still be some possibility for faults. Surely, if God is designing an item then the item would have 0 faults as God is above limitations. So if evil is a fault in God’s eyes then it makes one wonder why He would make the possibility of it.

Anormalguy:
1. The ability to make choices that directly impact ones existence makes sense to me but I do not understand the logic as to why that ability also has the potential for evil choices when it is made by a God who is good and incapable of evil.

2. Say an engineer were designing an item, ideally he will make that item with as little possibility for fault as he can but the engineer is limited by his abilities and nature so there will still be some possibility for faults. Surely, if God is designing an item then the item would have 0 faults as God is above limitations. So if evil is a fault in God’s eyes then it makes one wonder why He would make the possibility of it.

1. God created both good and evil. So why do you not understand that choices can be good or evil?

2. Are you suggesting that God ought to have carried out His plan for creation according to your specifications or what?

God created man will ability to choose between that which is good and that which is evil, meaning good and evil are choices to be made by his creation. After His work was done. He gave man His seal of approval indicating that indeed man had ability to choose either good or evil. Why are you here to disturb us because man has ability to choose evil as though it is a fault and not a choice consciously made by men?

Kobojunkie:
And?

Do you have any other definition of "perfect" different from the one in the dictionary?

There is just one sin that leads to all the evil in the world that you can think of. That sin is politics: the act of ruling over our fellow human. Apart from politics humans were created perfect with the ability to do only good but with politics evil thoughts set in!

hayoholla:
Do you have any other definition of "perfect" different from the one in the dictionary?

Yes, the definition used in scripture .

In scripture, Perfection aka Holiness is in reference to God's Law and specification. That which is perfect in the sight of God is that which is in direct compliance with His Will and Law.

Kobojunkie:
Yes, the definition used in scripture .

In scripture, Perfection aka Holiness is in reference to God's Law and specification. That which is perfect in the sight of God is that which is in direct compliance with His Will and Law.

Then what caused the incompliance of the will and law. Seems God has a separate definition of perfection in his spiritual lexicon, of which you're privy of, that I dont know off.

Anormalguy:
Hello everyone,

It is often agreed that all the evil in the world comes from humanity through our free will and not from God. Yet God created humanity and the ability of free will we possess. Why would God who is good and against all evil create creatures who have the potential for evil?

Free will is nothing if it is never tested.
Freewill is the Power to Choose either to or NOT to be subject to the will of God.


It is a selection process of God to choose those who will of their volition be subject to His will. These are qualified be be His children!

He did not make robots. Man is not robots
Man was meant to demonstrate obedience by his own freewill and not like a robot

hayoholla:
1. Then what caused the incompliance of the will and law.
2. Seems God has a separate definition of perfection in his spiritual lexicon, of which you're privy of, that I dont know off.

1. God's mandate to man is obedience of His teachings and commandments. Noncompliance results from disobedience of God's commandment, a choice made against God also know as sin.

2. This ain't about some spirit lexicon as the bulk of scripture is older than your Webster dictionary. So you should try reading through scripture to gain understanding of the applicable definition of a term through basic comprehension. This instead of picking the first definition you find for a term in Webster, thinking to impose it on scripture.

Kobojunkie:
1. God's mandate to man is obedience of His teachings and commandments. Noncompliance results from disobedience of God's commandment, a choice made against God also know as sin.

2. This ain't about some spirit lexicon as the bulk of scripture is older than your Webster dictionary. So you should try reading through scripture to gain understanding of the applicable definition of a term through basic comprehension. This instead of picking the first definition you find for a term in Webster, thinking to impose it on scripture.

First you asked this question
Why is God not allowed to create the kind of creatures He sees fit to create?

Then you replied this

God's mandate to man is obedience of His teachings and commandments. Noncompliance results from disobedience of God's commandment, a choice made against God also know as sin

I want to ask you this time, did God made them all perfect or not?

hayoholla:
First you asked this question
Why is God not allowed to create the kind of creatures He sees fit to create?

Then you replied this

God's mandate to man is obedience of His teachings and commandments. Noncompliance results from disobedience of God's commandment, a choice made against God also know as sin

I want to ask you this time, did God made them all perfect or not?

God didn't make man holy/perfect from His beginning. Instead God declared man good after He made man , certifying that man was built to God's intended specification.

Kobojunkie:
God didn't make man holy/perfect from His beginning. Instead God declared man good after He made man , certifying that man was built to God's intended specification.

Atleast you know man wasn't perfect/holy from the beginning. And what if the intended specification include in it the possibility of something going wrong"? Unless you want to equate being good to being perfect again, which I know you dare not

hayoholla:
1. Atleast you know man wasn't perfect/holy from the beginning. And what if the intended specification include in it the possibility of something going wrong"?

2. Unless you want to equate being good to being perfect again, which I know you dare not

1. Make certain you understand what is written abeg. God certified that man was created by Him to His exact specifications. Declaring the finished product GOOD means the product was created without fault from its beginning.

2. Goodness is a quality of being in conformance with God's specification and design, whereas holiness or perfection has instead to do with being in compliance with God's Law.

Aemmyjah:
He did not make robots. Man is not robots
Man was meant to demonstrate obedience by his own freewill and not like a robot

So do you have freewill in heaven?

Kobojunkie:
1. Make certain you understand what is written abeg. God certified that man was created by Him to His exact specifications. Declaring the finished product [b]GOOD means the product was created without fault from its beginning[/b].

2. Goodness is a quality of being in conformance with God's specification and design, whereas holiness or perfection has instead to do with being in compliance with God's Law.

I understand bro, just calm down. That in the bolded is where I will draw my next point of arguement. We all agree God is omnipresence right, and his(sic) presence permeates every existence, like everywhere right? And u said everything was without fault in the beginning (atleast in his eyes). How come this fault slipped through unnoticed into his creation, if he's the essence that permeates all existence? (I am sorry I used the word essence, since religion God has been genderlised . I take it back. I'll continue with the his henceforth, thank you.



Goodness is a quality of being in conformance with God's specification and design, whereas holiness or perfection has instead to do with being in compliance with God's Law. [/quote]

I am sorry bro, I might not agree with this, it almost like subtly equating being good to being perfect. It's like since God created me good, then I must be perfect by following his law. Dont you think that line there is even conflicting, since you even state earlier that Declaring the finished product [b]GOOD means the product was created without fault from its beginning[/b]. And come to think of it, there's no law without sin.

hayoholla:
1. I understand bro, just calm down. That in the bolded is where I will draw my next point of arguement. We all agree God is omnipresence right, and his(sic) presence permeates every existence, like everywhere right?

2. And u said everything was without fault in the beginning (at least in his eyes). How come this fault slipped through unnoticed into his creation, if he's the essence that permeates all existence? (I am sorry I used the word essence, since religion God has been genderlised . I take it back. I'll continue with the his henceforth, thank you.

3. I am sorry bro, I might not agree with this, it almost like subtly equating being good to being perfect. It's like since God created me good, then I must be perfect by following his law. Dont you think that line there is even conflicting, since you even state earlier that Declaring the finished product [b]GOOD means the product was created without fault from its beginning[/b]. And come to think of it, there's no law without sin.

1.

2. What fault slipped through? Where?

3. I think your confusion comes from you turning both on their heads as if to force the same meaning on both. God created Adam good so that Adam was fully able to choose between right and wrong, good and evil - choices. Adam was created by God fully capable of choosing to live according to the Perfect will of God, or not. Adam had no fault that would hinder him from making perfect choices if he were to have chosen exactly that for himself. The choices Adam eventually made have nothing to do with his creation since He was created and certified good by His creator.

Kobojunkie:
1.

2. What fault slipped through? Where?

3. I think your confusion comes from you turning both on their heads as if to force the same meaning on both. God created Adam good so that Adam was fully able to choose between right and wrong, good and evil - choices. Adam was created by God fully capable of choosing to live according to the Perfect will of God, or not. Adam had no fault that would hinder him from making perfect choices if he were to have chosen exactly that for himself. The choices Adam eventually made have nothing to do with his creation since He was created and certified good by His creator.

If this is what you claim, then don't you think there's a mixup somewhere. Please think deeply about this thing. Mind you, what I seek is not to prove you wrong, nor do I have any need to validate my position being the right one. I am only imploring you to take a second look, and you you'll see perspective changes. Some of these words will pass of as authentic, until you think deeply to notice the ambiguities and conflicts in them.

This is what you said down here



Make certain you understand what is written abeg. God certified that man was created by Him to His exact specifications. Declaring the finished product GOOD means the product was created without fault from its beginning.

2. Goodness is a quality of being in conformance with God's specification and design, whereas holiness or perfection has instead to do with being in compliance with God's Law.




If God created man in his image, obviously then, man will be perfect or Isn't God not perfect? It means you've not really made a taken a stand if man Is perfect or not. You said specifications fine I agree, but where will you fit in the part where God said he made man in his image and likeness. Don't you think there's more to it? He breathed into man his spirit for man to be conscious and aware. How did you miss that part too? See brother, in your assertions, you've kind of blur the line between being good and being perfect, often times, since when I engaged you, you're kind of not sure what word to use, whether it's good or being perfect. And that's one of the ambiguities I am talking about.

If Adam was given an instruction to follow in the garden of Eden, the acclaimed first paradise that consists of tree of good and evil. Then there should be a premonition of both outcomes! He's omniscient ffs! He should know this, and if this is the case, then God's creation are likely not perfect. They may be good, and being good is not a cushion against going the wrong way. In the garden of Eden, there's the paradox of choices which cannot be resolved if one is to follow hkw its being described in the bible. And also, please ponder on this too. If God could make a tree of Good and evil in the bible, don't you think God can comprehend what evil is, and if he can do this, then God can have the tendencies to be evil, even if he's not inclined to do it. He might have created a supposed perfect place out of his "good heart" but it doesn't make the creation perfect in anyways, if there's a tree of evil in the garden!

hayoholla:
1. If God created man in his image, obviously then, man will be perfect or Isn't God not perfect? It means you've not really made a taken a stand if man Is perfect or not.

2. You said specifications fine I agree, but where will you fit in the part where God said he made man in his image and likeness. Don't you think there's more to it? He breathed into man his spirit for man to be conscious and aware. How did you miss that part too? See brother, in your assertions, you've kind of blur the line between being good and being perfect, often times, since when I engaged you, you're kind of not sure what word to use, whether it's good or being perfect. And that's one of the ambiguities I am talking about.

3. If Adam was given an instruction to follow in the garden of Eden, the acclaimed first paradise that consists of tree of good and evil. Then there should be a premonition of both outcomes! He's omniscient ffs! He should know this, and if this is the case, then God's creation are likely not perfect. They may be good, and being good is not a cushion against going the wrong way. In the garden of Eden, there's the paradox of choices which cannot be resolved if one is to follow hkw its being described in the bible.

4. And also, please ponder on this too. If God could make a tree of Good and evil in the bible, don't you think God can comprehend what evil is, and if he can do this, then God can have the tendencies to be evil, even if he's not inclined to do it. He might have created a supposed perfect place out of his "good heart" but it doesn't make the creation perfect in anyways, if there's a tree of evil in the garden!

1. A terribly flawed conclusion on your part! As to whether I have taken a stance or not regarding perfection, my stance means nothing since this ought to instead be about that which is written. According to the story, man, Adam, was not made perfect by God from His beginning. This goodness certification is a quality of the work done by the creator, and not a characteristic of the man himself.

2. If you would stick to what is written rather than these numerous attempts to redefine/redraw that which is written, you will find that it ain't as complicated as you think it is. God created all creatures, He breathed life —the breath of Life which is spirit and belongs to God — into every one of the living creatures that He created. There are no ambiguities in any of what is written as is written.

3. There you go insisting that it should all have been according to how you supposed. Adam was given a choice and made to know the consequence of disobeying said choice. Oh well!

4. In your confusion, you keep forgetting that evil was created by God Himself. You know what, You need to make up your mind whether you want to argue the delusions and musings of you or need to focus instead on seeing what is written as it is written.

kingxsamz:


So do you have freewill in heaven?

Yeah

Dtruthspeaker:


Potential for evil is not evil like battery acid is potentially evil.

But the battery acid is also potentially good.

So what then is evil?

Evil means unlawful use which causes harm

And the potential to harm or to refrain from harming lies in the exercise of your power to act freely aka freewill

Thanks for your reasonable post. I see your point but what is the reason God gave us that ability to harm with battery acid or cause unlawful harm?

Anormalguy:


Thanks for your reasonable post. I see your point but what it is the reason God gave us that ability to harm with battery acid or cause unlawful harm?

Could you make your question clearer?

TenQ:

Free will is nothing if it is never tested.
Freewill is the Power to Choose either to or NOT to be subject to the will of God.


It is a selection process of God to choose those who will of their volition be subject to His will. These are qualified be be His children!

Funny, God even gave them the advantage of being on His Side (good only).

Evil was outside of them and confined to the fruit exactly like hypo is outside us.

So, the question is "how did the thing (evil) which God placed outside of them, and it has been outside them since, now get into them to change their good settings like hypo in the body?"

hayoholla:


Do you have any other definition of "perfect" different from the one in the dictionary?

Yes!

The dictionary definition or explaination of perfect is deceptive for it is True yet it does not say the whole Truth. (Half-Truths are Lies)

Law
adjective
/ˈpəːfɪkt/
1.
having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.
"life certainly isn't perfect at the moment"

Perfect and perfection is Dictated and Set by The Creator of a thing and so when trying to find out if a thing is perfect, you go to the pronouncement of The Owner and Creator.

Thus, perfect does not mean having all bla bla blah but that The Owner and Creator of it declared it perfect.

Like I do not like the 1979 Rolls Royce and definitely say it is not perfect but Rolls Royce says it's perfect.

It's their own perfect that stands and not my perfect.

If I want my own perfect then I should go make my own perfect. That is The Law.

Hmmm
I just wanted to see the comments in the thread but the latter comments are really something else and very very unbiblical as we have this flawed definition of perfect. God's ways and thoughts are not man's. His thoughts are far higher than man's so we must avoid speculating as like political activists or those that predict the weather. Let the bible speak for itself. Let's God's true servants, his Witnesses tell you the truth. I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Feel free to ask things like this rather than allow other people's ideas to confuse you

Pls, carefully read my next comments

HOW WAS IT POSSIBLE FOR ADAM TO SIN IF HE WAS PERFECT?

As to Adam’s being perfect, read Genesis 1:27, 31 and Deuteronomy 32:4. When Jehovah God pronounced his earthly creation, including man and woman, to be “very good,” what did it mean? For One whose activity is perfect to have said that what he made was “very good,” it must have measured up to his perfect standards.

DID PERFECTION REQUIRE THAT ADAM AND EVE BE UNABLE TO DO WRONG?
The maker of a robot expects it to do exactly what he has programmed it to do. But a PERFECT ROBOT WOULD NOT be a PERFECT HUMAN. The qualities viewed as essential are not the same. Adam and Eve were HUMANS, not ROBOTS. To humankind, God gave the ability to CHOOSE between RIGHT and WRONG, between OBEDIENCE and DISOBEDIENCE, to make moral decisions. Since this is the way humans were designed, the INABILITY TO MAKE SUCH DECISIONS (AND NOT AN UNWISE DECISION) IS WHAT WOULD HAVE INDICATED IMPERFECTION. —Compare Deuteronomy 30:19, 20; Joshua 24:15.


FOR ADAM AND EVE TO QUALIFY AS BEING CREATED PERFECT, MUST ALL THEIR DECISIONS THEREAFTER BE RIGHT?
That would be the same as saying that they had no choice. But God did not make them in such a way that their obedience would be automatic. God granted them the ability to choose, so that they could obey BECAUSE they LOVED him. Or, if they allowed their hearts to become selfish, they would become disobedient. Which means more to you—when someone does something for you because he is forced to do it or because he wants to?—Compare Deuteronomy 11:1; 1 John 5:3.


HOW COULD SUCH PERFECT HUMANS BECOME SELFISH, LEADING TO ACTS OF SIN?
Although created perfect, their physical bodies would not continue to function perfectly if not provided with proper food. So, too, if they let the mind feed on wrong thoughts, this would cause moral deterioration, unholiness. James 1:14, 15 explains: “Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin.” In the case of Eve, the wrong desires began to develop when she listened with interest to Satan, who used a serpent as his mouthpiece. Adam heeded the urging of his wife to join her in eating the forbidden fruit. Instead of rejecting the wrong thoughts, both nourished selfish desires, acts of sin resulted.—Gen. 3:1-6.

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Anormalguy:

Thanks for your reasonable post. I see your point but what is the reason God gave us that ability to harm with battery acid or cause unlawful harm?

I saw you at the bottom but I see you did not respond to my call for clarity.

So I think you deliberately asked this question with malice.

For you deceivingly imply God caused man to unlawfully harm which is not True for it is not God Who caused it but Satan. Therefore, this is a bad faith question,

Giving you fair hearing I therefore ask, is my surnising True? Then kindly state what your True question is.