Steep:
those who go to heaven are already transformed. There is no assaulting or any other type of sin.

So why didn't the god just create such people in the first place?

kingxsamz:


Give reasons why that cannot happen.

The conditions or attributes or IMPERFECTION we have here causing us to hate one another and assault one another is not in heaven- God's abode

kingxsamz:


This was what the OP asked and you people mentioned freewill.

Now, I asked if there's freewill in heaven and you guys said yes, meanwhile, you claim one cannot commit sin in heaven.
So this only brings us back to the OP's question. Why would your "good god" create creatures who have potentials to commit sin?
Why didn't he just make them incapable of sin just as it is in heaven?

freewill means freedom to make choices. Those who will be in heaven have already made a choice, everyone must make a choice, after making this choice it becomes irreversible.

LordReed:


So why didn't the god just create such people in the first place?

No,everyone must make a choice.
God gives everyone the freedom to make this important choice.
The angels were given this opportunity some rebelled against God others chose to continue with God, those ones that rebelled became devils while those that remained are called elect angels.

So these transformed people in heaven can't make a choice?

Steep:
No,everyone must make a choice.
God gives everyone the freedom to make this important choice.
The angels were given this opportunity some rebelled against God others chose to continue with God, those ones that rebelled became devils while those that remained are called elect angels.

LordReed:
So these transformed people in heaven can't make a choice?

They would be grateful to God they made the right choice in the first place. Important choice to be with God is only made once. That is why those in hell would remain there forever even though they want a second chance.

.

Steep:
freewill means freedom to make choices. Those who will be in heaven have already made a choice, everyone must make a choice, after making this choice becomes irreversible.

@bolded...
Meaning there's something stopping or preventing anyone from making any other choice that isn't required in heaven.
That isn't freewill, that's the description of making people do only what you approve of without having any other choice, because all Christians still sin even after repentance, so why is their choice of going back to sin being prevented by force?
So the question still remains unanswered.
why did the "good god" create beings who have the potentials to commit sin?
Why didn't he make them perfect and free of sin just like in heaven?
Another question. Are angels capable of committing sin in heaven?

Aemmyjah:


The conditions or attributes or IMPERFECTION we have here causing us to hate one another and assault one another is not in heaven- God's abode

So how was Satan able to have rebellious thoughts in the same heaven, that be had to get kicked out?

kingxsamz:


So how was Satan able to have rebellious thoughts in the same heaven, that be had to get kicked out?

Hmm
You know what, you asked a very good question
I was not in heaven so I can't give my opinion but let the bible answer. Is your Bible with you?

Aemmyjah:


Hmm
You know what, you asked a very good question
I was not in heaven so I can't give my opinion but let the bible answer. Is your Bible with you?

Answer the question yourself if it's in your Bible.

kingxsamz:

@bolded...
Meaning there's something stopping or preventing anyone from making any other choice that isn't required in heaven.

@bolded not true, the devil sinned in heaven remember. But however nothing, unclean can ever be in heaven anymore. So those who will be in heaven must be those who desire God's Righteousness.
Those in heaven made a choice to be in that state in the first place, and they would be glad they are in that sate when the time comes.

That isn't freewill, that's the description of making people do only what you approve of without having any other choice, because all Christians still sin even after repentance, so why is their choice of going back to sin being prevented by force?

@ bolded again, you are talking about consequence not free will, you want to eat you cake and have it back. The problem here is God have principles.
If you want to live with God then you must be perfect like him, all those who want to be with him made the choice of being like God all those who does not esire or want righteous will be in their place which is the lake of fire.

Again, you get it wrong here, there is a force that propels man to commit sin and this force is in out body whether Christian or not but for a Christian he desires a condition in which he would not sin and that he will get.

So the question still remains unanswered.
why did the "good god" create beings who have the potentials to commit sin?
Why didn't he make them perfect and free of sin just like in heaven?
Another question. Are angels capable of committing sin in heaven?

God created things with the potential to commit sin so you can make the important choice of living in his kingdom or not.

Steep:
They would be grateful to God they made the right choice in the first place. Important choice to be with God is only made once. That is why those in hell would remain there forever even though they want a second chance.

According to you the angels were already in the heaven when they made the choice so the location or the nature is irrelevant. You didn't answer the question, can these transformed people make a choice?

LordReed:


According to you the angels were already in the heaven when they made the choice so the location or the nature is irrelevant. You didn't answer the question, can these transformed people make a choice?

make a choice about what?

Steep:
make a choice about what?

About anything.

LordReed:


About anything.

Nobody can make a choice about everything, for example you don't choose who your parents will be neither your colour or height. Nobody makes absolute choice. The power of absolute choice only lies with God and he determines what and what we make choice from.

Steep:
@bolded not true, the devil sinned in heaven remember. But however nothing, unclean can ever be in heaven anymore. So those who will be in heaven must be those who desire God's Righteousness.
Those in heaven made a choice to be in that state in the first place, and they would be glad they are in that sate when the time comes.

That just contradicts your belief of people not being able to sin in heaven. If Satan who was "perfect" in heaven which is "perfect" can sin in heaven then how much more humans?

@ bolded again, you are talking about consequence not free will, you want to eat you cake and have it back. The problem here is God have principles.
If you want to live with God then you must be perfect like him , all those who want to be with him made the choice of being like God all those who does not esire or want righteous will be in their place which is the lake of fire.

How can an imperfect being who was created imperfect be perfect? Also, how can a perfect god create imperfect things? Doesn't that nullify the notion that he's perfect?

Again, you get it wrong here, there is a force that propels man to commit sin and this force is in out body whether Christian or not but for a Christian he desires a condition in which he would not sin and that he will get.


God created things with the potential to commit sin so you can make the important choice of living in his kingdom or not.

That means the Christian god is responsible for the force that makes people commit sin.
And how is it a choice when the options are unfavorable?
If a robber points a gun to your head and gives you the option to empty your savings account and give to him or die by his gun, would you describe that as freewill since humans are more inclined to go with the favorable option?
Would you consider that "consequences of one's action"?

kingxsamz:

That just contradicts your belief of people not being able to sin in heaven. If Satan who was "perfect" in heaven which is "perfect" can sin in heaven then how much more humans?

perfection is not infallibility. Immediately he became imperfect he was cast out.

How can an imperfect being who was created imperfect be perfect? Also, how can a perfect god create imperfect things? Doesn't that nullify the notion that he's perfect?

God didn't create anything imperfect.

That means the Christian god is responsible for the force that makes people commit sin.
And how is it a choice when the options are unfavorable?
If a robber points a gun to your head and gives you the option to empty your savings account and give to him or die by his gun, would you describe that as freewill since humans are more inclined to go with the favorable option?
Would you consider that "consequences of one's action"?

God is not responsible first it is your inherent ancestors from your father Adam and secondly, you love it and do not want to be free from it. Otherwise God provided a way of escape through Jesus Christ.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Steep:
Nobody can make a choice about everything, for example you don't choose who your parents will be neither your colour or height. Nobody makes absolute choice. The power of absolute choice only lies with God and he determines what and what we make choice from.

Stop being obtuse, we are talking about making any sort of choice and you are talking as if I asked if they can choose to be rainbow unicorns. Simple question can they make any sort of choice, you are dancing around it.

Steep:
perfection is not infallibility. Immediately he became imperfect he was cast out.


God didn't create anything imperfect.



God is not responsible first it is your inherent ancestors from your father Adam and secondly, you love it and do not want to be free from it. Otherwise God provided a way of escape through Jesus Christ.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Don't mind them
They think perfection is infallibility
Humans and angels had the choice to do what they want. Their obedience was not to be automatic like robots

Aemmyjah:


Don't mind them
They think perfection is infallibility
Humans and angels had the choice to do what they want. Their obedience was not to be automatic like robots

he seems you eant to win argument at all cost.

Aemmyjah:

So the Creator is responsible for every behavior of man including good and bad right?

You have left the issue. I was showing you how toysy and roboty man is and not not taking about the liability of the Creator.

Are you responsible for your mannequin killing other mannequins or blowing up the their toy houses? No

The Law of Strict Liability. If you did it, you are responsible for your doings.

LordReed:


Stop being obtuse, we are talking about making any sort of choice and you are talking as if I asked if they can choose to be rainbow unicorns. Simple question can they make any sort of choice, you are dancing around it.

you are being disingenuous, which "particular choice" I asked? You said any choice. This is an ambiguous answer.

Dtruthspeaker:


You have left the issue. I was showing you how toysy and roboty man is and not not taking about the liability of the Creator.

Are you responsible for your mannequin killing other mannequins? No

Choice. Don't ignore choice
Toys don't have choice

Steep:
he seems you eant to win argument at all cost.

No
I was only agreeing with you on how you said perfection is not infallibility

Aemmyjah:


No
I was only agreeing with you on how you said perfection is not infallibility

yes I m sorry for the typo, I was referring to him, he wants to win argument at all cost.

Aemmyjah:

Choice. Don't ignore choice
Toys don't have choice

The other day you told those atheists that you and animals specifically monkeys are the same save the software of talking.

And guess what, just as you are liable for your choices, they too have the same liability.

Also, remember, even the stones talk.

Just as you have your dumb mannequins and talking mannequins, so also are you a toy to your Maker!

You are still a toy irrespective of whether you are self operating robot or mascot.

Dtruthspeaker:


The other day you told those atheists that you and animals specifically monkeys are the same save the software of talking.

And guess what, just as you are liable for your choices, they too have the same liability.

Also, remember, even the stones talk.

Just as you have your dumb mannequins and talking mannequins, so also are you a toy to your Maker!

You are still a toy irrespective of whether you are self operated toy or mascot.

Stones talk?! Hmm

Unlike man-made product like toys and robots. They're programmed to do just what the Maker WANTS them to do

As for us, we have choice to DEMONSTRATE our obedience to our maker's will because we WANT to
That's why we have commandments and laws. Remember the first commandment. It is a must we love God whole souled and wholeheartedly but he won't take away our freewill from us so we can obey him
Jesus christ too was tempted but he obeyed because he CHOSE to

Steep:
perfection is not infallibility. Immediately he became imperfect he was cast out.

Lol, no.
For one to be perfect, that person cannot be prone to having flaws.

God didn't create anything imperfect.

So why all the mess then? Even a human being would have done better. From being omniscient to putting a dangerous tree in the same garden you intend your creation to inhabit forever, to being omnipotent, yet, still unable to stop Satan, to the point that you had to drown the entire world and send your son to die. And in the end nothing changed.

God is not responsible first it is your inherent ancestors from your father Adam and secondly, you love it and do not want to be free from it. Otherwise God provided a way of escape through Jesus Christ.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Whoever created the tree of life and allowed Satan the serpent to have access to the garden where two inexperienced adults were supposed to live is definitely responsible for everything.
And please address the "robber analogy" I gave.

Aemmyjah:


Don't mind them
They think perfection is infallibility
Humans and angels had the choice to do what they want. Their obedience was not to be automatic like robots

Lol, I'm still waiting for your answer to my question.
Also, you can't be perfect and still make mistakes.

Aemmyjah:

Evil did not enter the world by means of eating the fruit of that tree
You're really funny.

Haba! Don't deny The Truth because you do not want to accept it.

You saw and we all see that they became evil and proved they were evil by doing evil ONLY AFTER THE FRUIT HAD BEEN EATEN?

You do not aaccuse your wife of pregnancy and cheating until AFTER she must have had sex with another man.

Aemmyjah:

Stones talk?!hmm.

You don't know God! You thought He was joking when He Said nothing is impossible with Him. It's there in the Bible

Aemmyjah:
...They're programmed to do just what the Maker WANTS them to do.

And you are doing what your Maker (God) Programmed you to do just as your robots are doing what you programmed them to do.

Robots and mannequins are your own toys, you, plants and animals are God's Own toys.