Dtruthspeaker:


Anywhere!

LoLz. More like nowhere.

Dtruthspeaker:






Not sin! Evil.

So your god is the author of evil right?

LordReed:


LoLz! The process of billions of people enduring suffering over the course of thousands of years? Is that the process you are referring to?

First of all nobody has endured suffering upto a thousand years. The process is for those in Christ.

secondly, the glory that God is revealing to those who are in Christ cannot be compared to the suffering of this present time.

Thirdly, the sufferings in this world is as a result of man's separation from God and the worse fate is coming to them that reject God and his plan of salvation.

Aemmyjah:
...
Who planted the greed in the woman? It was Satan...

Remember what they told you when you reported that it was Bayo or Dafe who told you to eat the fruit?

They said "why did you not tell him to get out?"

Satan is guilty for counseling the commission of crime but she was guilty of the actual commission of it.

Then she got herself infected with the genetic disease called evil thereby corrupting all her seeds with evil.

So, she was already guilty of sin even before evil entered and took effect.

Anyway this was in answer to you saying that "Evil did not enter the world by means of eating the fruit of that tree" whereas the records clearly shows that it entered only after their eating of it

Aemmyjah:

So your god is the author of evil right?

Obviously The God of Isaiah 45:7 is not your God. Noted.

LordReed:


LoLz. More like nowhere.

More like a where.

Aemmyjah:

As for me, like the psalmist, I say 'What is man...'
He has made us a little lower than the Angels
He made me in his own image
He sent his son to die for me
He gives me life and every good thing
He's done good for me, doing good for me and in the future, great things he'll do.
We don't do wonderful things for toys or anything we invent
We can show our love for him
We can pray and worship him
We can draw close to him.

Same as your mannequin is made in your image and likeness

And you people have died for your toys eg cars, phones, wristwatches etc

And you people have done wonderful things to for your toys eg giving them a hot bath when dirty (cars), blessing them with the finest things of life like wearing your phones gold and diamond studded clothes. etc.

Aemmyjah:

God did not program Man to demonstrate obedience and loyalty like ROBOTS

As long as you admit that God programmed man, like man programmed his toys, then my case proven.

Dtruthspeaker:


Obviously The God of Isaiah 45:7 is not your God. Noted.

If your understanding of that verse makes you think that God who is personified as love should be the author of evil, your god must be cruel indeed

Sometimes, when I read something in the Bible, I pray for note understanding and get to know it rather than just draw nonsense conclusion. You had a wrong view or understanding of that verse. It takes humility to ask and to know the truth

Dtruthspeaker:


More like a where.

That indicates a certain place. May be you don't know?

Thanks for your post. My responses are below.

Aemmyjah:


When the Bible says Adam was perfect, it meant that he lived up to his standards in creation. For example, in a class, you may mark someone work as good, bad, poor, excellent or perfect.

I agree something is perfect if it is in the standards set by its creator but your answer would mean that God did not make man in his image. My question on freewill is meant in the context that we are made in the image of God who cannot do evil. In other words, how can a creature made in the image of God do evil? Unless you also implying God can do evil then this does not make sense to me.

Aemmyjah:


Still God gave him freewill to do what he pleases.

Why did God give us the freewill to do whatever we please knowing full well that only the good choices will really benefit us?

Aemmyjah:


Still God gave him freewill to do what he pleases. That freewill was not to be automatic but his choices should come from his heart. He may choose to obey his Creator or not, do what is bad or not if he wishes. Satan himself was perfect but he misused his freewill too. Joshua even urged his people to use their freewill to serve God when he said that if it seem good to them, they could choose to serve God or not.
Adam could eat whatever he likes, drink and breathe. That does not mean that because he is perfect, he can stay without air or just eat any kind of food or climb a cliff to land headfirst. His freewill will help him and us as well to decide what we WANT to do regarding moral laws. Accept them or reject them.

[/quote]

This sounds nice but when one really looks at it, the fact is that evil has ultimately no advantages but only harmful consequences so what then is the greatness that lies in the capacity to choose evil? The fact is also that you can have freedom in only good choices because there are many, and unlimited good things to do, a lack of freewill for evil does not need to mean being able to do whatever you want without the choices being evil, but only being able to make the good choices.

Aemmyjah:


God is love and he expects his intelligent creatures to show that same attitude of love towards him. If won't make sense if they were like robots. Jesus christ too was tempted and we all know of his temptation yet he CHOSE to want to obey God. Something Adam and Eve foolishly failed to do

God is love so should creatures made in His image not merely be a reflection of love rather than beings that have the capacity to do something unloving, where does that capacity come from? How do you know Jesus chose to want to obey God? There is nothing in the story of how He handled that temptation that indicates he could have chosen to not obey God. In fact, there are many statements in the Bible that tells us Jesus cannot do anything but the will of God the Father.

Overall, your post explains the perfection of freewill but in the context that we are not made in the image of God or in the context that God has the potential for evil which I do not believe and is not in that context I am asking for.

Aemmyjah:

If your understanding of that verse makes you think that God who is personified as love should be the author of evil, your god must be cruel indeed...

Love also includes Law

And Law means Judgement.

And where there is Judgement, there is just is.

And where there is just is an accused is either going to be praised or shamed.

Thus, you do not know God and what it means to be God!

And here is the understanding.

Surely you had seen acids, tobacco, cutlasses, stones, phones, wood?

And evil thing is not evil in the Hands of The Good. and a good thing will be evil in the hand of the evil.

Why?

Because of Law.

There is Lawful use of evil. eg poisons used for making batteries, soaps, perfumes etc.

And there is an unlawful use of evil eg using wines, sex, water to killi a person.

So you see, A Creator Rules Absolutely and as a Ruler He decides what shall happen His Toys (Law Making) whether beneficial (good for them) or adverse and harmful and destructive (not good or bad for them).

That is what it is and that is how it is, and every toy is under this Law. It is not even a take it or leave it. Once your creator creates you, immediately His Law takes effect.

Dtruthspeaker:


Love also includes Law

And Law means Judgement.

And where there is Judgement, there is just is.

And where there is just is an accused is either going to be praised or shamed.

Thus, you do not know God and what it means to be God!

And here is the understanding.

Surely you had seen acids, tobacco, cutlasses, stones, phones, wood?

And evil thing is not evil in the Hands of The Good. and a good thing will be evil in the hand of the evil.

Why?

Because of Law.

There is Lawful use of evil. eg poisons used for making batteries, soaps, perfumes etc.

And there is an unlawful use of evil eg using wines, sex, water to killi a person.

So you see, A Creator Rules Absolutely and as a Ruler He decides what shall happen His Toys (Law Making) whether beneficial (good for them) or adverse and harmful and destructive (not good or bad for them).

That is what it is and that is how it is, and every toy is under this Law. It is not even a take it or leave it. Once your creator creates you, immediately His Law takes effect.

Don't shift the goal post
We're discussing that verse in isaiah
From that verse, what does it mean that Jehovah created calamity?
That's he's the source or responsible for all the ills that befall man?

Aemmyjah:


Don't shift the goal post
We're discussing that verse in isaiah
From that verse, what does it mean that Jehovah created calamity?
That's he's the source or responsible for all the ills that befall man?

I did not leave the issue, I answered it and you had nothing to say except to say "God is Love".

Therefore I had to showed you Love means Law and Law means Rule.

And in this God's Rule we can see that an evil thing is good in the Hands of a Good Person while a good thing is evil in hands of a bad and wicked person, as God's Law and Rule has set it to be over us His Toys.

And I know you got it. You just do not want to accept this Truth exactly as you have shown that you resist any fact which does not key with whatever idea or fact you choose to believe.

Therefore, this is you trying to find how you can counter it. So you are technically stalling if not you would have asked questions arising out of my response.

But because you see the Truth and you do not like this Truth, you are now stalling and trying to act as though you did not understand my response.

People swallow greedily any lie that flatters thrm, but sip only little by little at a truth they find bitter. Denis Diderot

The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.James A. Garfield

Dtruthspeaker:


I did not leave the issue, I answered it and you had nothing to say except to say "God is Love".

Therefore I had to showed you Love means Law and Law means Rule.

And in this God's Rule we can see that an evil thing is good in the Hands of a Good Person while a good thing is evil in hands of a bad and wicked person, as God's Law and Rule has set it to be over us His Toys.

And I know you got it. You just do not want to accept this Truth exactly as you have shown that you resist any fact which does not key with whatever idea or fact you choose to believe.

Therefore, this is you trying to find how you can counter it. So you are technically stalling if not you would have asked questions arising out of my response.

But because you see the Truth and you do not like this Truth, you are now stalling and trying to act as though you did not understand my response.

People swallow greedily any lie that flatters thrm, but sip only little by little at a truth they find bitter. Denis Diderot


The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.James A. Garfield

You're correct somewhere but I want you to bring out the main point or make it clear. It's presumptuous to think I totally disagree before you start to quote nonsense

Expatiate on the third paragraph

Aemmyjah:


You're correct somewhere but I want you to bring out the main point or make it clear. It's presumptuous to think I totally disagree before you start to quote nonsense

Expatiate on the third paragraph

Embolden the part of my response you seek clarity on.

Dtruthspeaker:


Embolden the part of my response you seek clarity on.

I can't do that
Just the third paragraph where you mentioned that God's rule part and I'll appreciate it if you can illustrate for those who may have thought that verse differently

Aemmyjah:


I can't do that
Just the third paragraph where you mentioned that God's rule part and I'll appreciate it if you can illustrate for those who may have thought that verse differently

Is it this part?

"So you see, A Creator Rules Absolutely and as a Ruler He decides what shall happen His Toys (Law Making) whether beneficial (good for them) or adverse and harmful and destructive (not good or bad for them)."

Dtruthspeaker:


Is it this part?

"So you see, A Creator Rules Absolutely and as a Ruler He decides what shall happen His Toys (Law Making) whether beneficial (good for them) or adverse and harmful and destructive (not good or bad for them)."

Yes, that part
Expatiate it
Make it make sense
I mean, it is like raw cake that you brought out from the oven

Use examples and illustration
Add all the icing and beauty and flavor so we'll understand

Aemmyjah:


Yes, that part
Expatiate it
Make it make sense
I mean, it is like raw cake that you brought out from the oven

Use examples and illustration
Add all the icing and beauty and flavor so we'll understand

It is better when specific questions are asked. I am not supposed to be giving a lecture here especially when most of my opinions are very novel and even unknown.

So you have to ask specific questions so that I can give specific answers as I possibly can.

Dtruthspeaker:


It is better when specific questions are asked. I am not supposed to be giving a lecture here especially when most of my opinions are very novel and even unknown.

So you have to ask specific questions so that I can give specific answers as I possibly can.

You are not giving a lecture
Just shed light on that verse to make it clear cos that verse has confused many people

Aemmyjah:


You are not giving a lecture
Just shed light on that verse to make it clear cos that verse has confused many people

There are many many things in that verse working together and I cannot present them all. So what I have given is the abridged version.

And It all commences with understanding "Who a Creator is? which as you did, people do not want to face The Truth that is there.

And this is where Job teaches especially chapter 9:1- 13 clearly exhibits God's Power.

Which if you learn you would know what "the work of His Hands" mean which is why I told you, man is a toy which you did not like

Dtruthspeaker:


There are many many things in that verse working together and I cannot present them all. So what I have given is the abridged version.

And It all commences with understanding "Who a Creator is? which as you did, people do not want to face The Truth that is there.

And this is where Job teaches especially chapter 9:1- 13 clearly exhibits God's Power.

Which if you learn you would know what "the work of His Hands" mean which is why I told you, man is a toy which you did not like

  I form light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.

If you form a toy and program it to do whatever you WANT it to do, why should you punish or destroy or be mad with the 'toy' or regret making it

Lemme just drop this commentary

Evil
The Meaning of Jehovah’s Bringing Evil. Rightly, Jehovah brought evil or calamity upon Adam for his disobedience. Hence, in the Scriptures, Jehovah is referred to as the Creator of evil or calamity. (Isa 45:7; compare KJ.) His enforcing of the penalty for sin, namely, death, has proved to be an evil, or a calamity, for mankind. So, then, evil is not always synonymous with wrongdoing. Examples of evils or calamities created by Jehovah are the Flood of Noah’s day and the Ten Plagues visited upon Egypt. But these evils were not wrongs. Rather, the rightful administration of justice against wrongdoers was involved in both cases. However, at times Jehovah, in his mercy, has refrained from bringing the intended calamity or evil in execution of his righteous judgment because of the repentance on the part of those concerned. (Jon 3:10) Additionally, in having a warning given, Jehovah has undeservedly provided opportunities for the practicers of bad to change their course and thus to keep living.​—Eze 33:11.

A father could punish a child for an offence. In the eyes of that child, the punishment is a form of 'evil' or calamity but no wrongdoing on God's part for his ways are justice

Aemmyjah:
...If you form a toy and program it to do whatever you WANT it to do, why should you punish or destroy or be mad with the 'toy' or regret making it.

Good, a question! Perfect place to start.

Have you ever punished your mannequin or car or phone or pencil that you created?

No!

But did you not destroy them and get mad with them and even regretted having them?

O Yes, you did!

Next question!

Dtruthspeaker:


Good, a question! Perfect place to start.

Have you ever punished your mannequin or car or phone or pencil that you created?

No!

But did you not destroy them and get mad with them and even regretted having them?

O Yes, you did!

Next question!

But why do parents punish their children (unless you see them as toys)
Because of wrong CHOICES

Toys don't make choices

Dtruthspeaker:


Good, a question! Perfect place to start.

Have you ever punished your mannequin or car or phone or pencil that you created?

No!

But did you not destroy them and get mad with them and even regretted having them?

O Yes, you did!

Next question!

You can terminate a contract
Destroy a phone
Pull down a mansion
Kill an animal
Format a phone

You can't punish things you invented or praise them cos they have no SENSE or conscience. Punishment is a form of discipline

Punishment comes when someone DELIBERATELY or UNCONSCIOUSLY does something wrong

Aemmyjah:

You can terminate a contract
Destroy a phone
Pull down a mansion
Kill an animal
Format a phone

Do you have a contract with your phone or mannequin?

No!

Do you know that you would not have had a right to kill animals if God did not give you that right in Genesis 9:3, (exactly as He did not give you power over the wind, floods,season etc) because animals are not your creation therefore you have no right and power over them?

Aemmyjah:

You can't punish things you invented or praise them cos they have no SENSE or conscience. Punishment is a form of discipline

Punishment comes when someone DELIBERATELY or UNCONSCIOUSLY does something wrong

You should have asked the question seeing that I deliberately did not address the punishment angle and your answer here just shows you don't want to know, as I said, so I stop.

Dtruthspeaker:


Do you have a contract with your phone or mannequin?

No!

Do you know that you would not have had a right to kill animals if God did not give you that right in Genesis 9:3, (exactly as He did not give you power over the wind, floods,season etc) because animals are not your creation therefore you have no right and power over them?



You should have asked the question seeing that I deliberately did not address the punishment angle and your answer here just shows you don't want to know, as I said, so I stop.

Mannequin has no freewill
Inventions has no freewill
Animals act only based on instincts. Whether you punish them or kill them for an offence, they won't understand

Aemmyjah:

Mannequin has no freewill
Inventions has no freewill
Animals act only based on instincts. Whether you punish them or kill them for an offence, they won't understand

You are just running around looking for something to say because you want to avoid knowing the unpleasant Truth.

Let me tell you something that condemns you.

'Equity sees as done, what ought to be done".

You are still guilty of an offence if you had opportunity of knowing that offence but you refused to acquire the knowledge.

So if you think your plan to tell God that you did not know, on that Day, you are wasting your time, you are already guilty of knowledge for refusal to take knowledge. That is what the talent guy thought and his plan failed.

It's ok. It is your right to choose death as I told you, you jws choose.

Dtruthspeaker:


You are just running around looking for something to say because you want to avoid knowing the unpleasant Truth.

Let me tell you something that condemns you.

'Equity sees as done, what ought to be done".

You are still guilty of an offence if you had opportunity of knowing that offence but you refused to acquire the knowledge.

So if you think your plan to tell God that you did not know, on that Day, you are wasting your time, you are already guilty of knowledge for refusal to take knowledge. That is what the talent guy thought and his plan failed.

It's ok. It is your right to choose death as I told you, you jws choose.

There is nothing life or death here
Common sense will tell a fool that no human invention has FREEWILL or CHOICE. A toy can never be described as having freewill or choice. Any damage they cause is by accident unless they are programmed to act that way
That is what Joshua said as well that he and his household will CHOOSE to worship God
Jesus himself used his freewill to remain loyal to God in the face of tests and challenges
Why then did Jehovah change his mind concerning the people of nineveh
Go and read Ezekiel 18. You'll know whether or not if humans are TOYS in the hands of God
Toys are robots and have no sense of choice or freewill. You have big problem understanding what the concept of freewill is all about

Aemmyjah:

There is nothing life or death here
Common sense will tell a fool that no human invention has FREEWILL or CHOICE.

Job already answered you and ran away but I respect that it is your right to flee.

Dtruthspeaker:


Job already answered you and ran away but I respect that it is your right to flee.

Who is Job?
Freewill and choice is based on awareness
Awareness of who you are and what you are to do and also the instructions or laws that guide Man
Toys have no such awareness and Man is not a toy

Aemmyjah:

Who is Job?

You don't know Job, the one who God boasted with against Satan?

Aemmyjah:

Freewill and choice is based on awareness
Awareness of who you are and what you are to do and also the instructions or laws that guide Man
Toys have no such awareness and Man is not a toy

It does not matter. What happens to toys still happens to you. Eg

1) you can not live without your Creator like your phone cannot live without you ("cut off from me, ye can do nothing" John 15:5.

2) Your Creator does what it likes over you as you do what you like over your doll baby and its toy house.. Psalm 115:3

As I told you earlier which you tried dodging you see that your toys still get destroyed and broken even when they are not aware and awake, like the fig tree The Lord Cursed when He found no fruit in it.

Therefore how greatly terrible is it for a toy, who being aware puts itself in its Creator's paths of destruction. O, how terrible it is.

Awareness is what makes you escape from your Creators affliction at the least not to talk of it also elevating you (promotion) into the place of joy and goodness of your Creator.

And this is the beginning of the life and destruction of living toy called man.

And if you observe the Bible uses
more of "destruction"than death.

And destruction is what follows toys.