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Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Janosky: 9:43pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
TenQ:Oga be honest to yourself. @ Revelation 7:9-11, did your own Bible say that the Multitudes are in heaven? You are TWISTING the holy scriptures. Take note of this DETAIL highlighting the difference between Rev 14:1-3 & Rev 7:9-11. "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: [b]and they sung as it were a new song before the throne" The Harpers are in heavenly dwellers singing before the throne. Did Revelation 7:9-11 say the voice Multitudes came from heaven? Answer: No! Not at all. Did Revelation 7:9-11 say the Multitudes are dwelling in heaven? Answer: No ! Do angels and spirits in heaven owe their salvation to Jesus Christ? No,not at all. NEVER! TenQ: Did Revelation 7:9-10 say that angels @ Revelation 7:11 were among the Multitudes "of all nations, kindred, tongues etc? No ! Let's Use a bible reference to answer your question. When the sinner in Luke chapter 18 bow his head in prayer to God & the voice of Harpers in heaven giving worship to God. Are the Harpers in heaven and the sinner on earth bowing to different God on two different thrones? No ! Therefore, the Harpers in heaven and the Multitudes on earth are bowing to the same God on His heavenly throne. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 9:46pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
Janosky:Check again in RED TenQ: Again: Are the TWO THRONES in different places? 1 Like |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 9:51pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
Janosky: Is it a false claim by me that JW believe that ONLY 144,000 people will go to heaven? YES or NO! 1 Like |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Janosky: 10:38pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
TenQ: The same throne in Revelation 7:9-11 is the same throne in Revelation 14:1-3 and the same throne in 1 Chronicles 29:23. The location of the throne is not an issue. The difference: The location of the Multitude is different from the location of the Harpers/Angels. Revelation 7:9-10, the Multitudes are NOT in heaven. In Revelation 7:11, the angels are not on earth. Revelation 14:1-3 John wrote: And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: and they sung as it were a new song before the throne" The Harpers are in heaven singing a new song before the throne. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:41pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
TenQ: First of all you thought the 144,000 are natural Israelites until i asked you to crosscheck the original at Exodus 1:1-5. Both of them are in God's presence that's what it means but the four living creatures makes a difference because the four living creatures are in heaven each standing at the right, left, front and back of God's heavenly throne {Ezekiel 1:1-11} only the 144,000 are in the same place with the four living creatures! Revelations 14:3 That's why it's logical to conclude that only the 144,000 will go to heaven. There is one thing i've noticed about you and it won't help you if you don't change: You're always trying to find fault with whatever the JWs teaches whereas you can never ever find any group of worshipers as studious as JWs. That's why i keep telling you to go out there and find the meaning from any other religion if their opinion satisfy you continue worshiping with them. Your opinion can't and will never count before JWs unless you're able to present a better performing group with the things you think you know! |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Janosky: 10:42pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
TenQ:Oga, address my question: Was this question in your post I responded to @8:24pm? |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Janosky: 10:48pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: 1 Chronicles 29:23 knocked out his claim that "standing before the throne" means the Multitude & 144000 are in heaven , nah the claim the guy man dey aim at. King Solomon sitting on Jehovah's throne NEVER means Solomon ruled in heaven (or was in heaven) in the same manner that standing before the throne" NEVER meant 144000 & the Multitude were in the same place. 1 Like |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:56pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
Janosky: I've noticed him that he's learning so much from us yet he feels like making impact in what we teach which is impossible. When a King's name is mentioned everyone is alert perhaps one of the kings representative is around but at the mention of the kings throne everyone knows that the King's presence is what we are talking about. Before the 1,000 years ends Jesus will continue to be the mediator between God and all faithful people but after his 1,000 years reign Jesus will leave the scene so that all faithful humans will have direct dealing with Jehovah {1Corinthians 15:27-28} so it will be as if both in heaven and on earth all are in God's presence (standing before His throne) Revelations 21:3 I can't just thank you guys enough for helping me to understand all these scriptures fully! 1Corinthians 4:7 JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, thank you and my God will continue to bless you guys for locating me!
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Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:59pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
Please just present scriptures to him with mild temper {1Peter 3:15} let him do whatever he pleases with our presentation at least he has his fellow worshipers to discuss with if JWs disagree with him! Janosky: |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 11:09pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
Janosky:This was my claim and I proceeded to burst your misconceptions Is it a false claim by me that JW believe that ONLY 144,000 people will go to heaven? YES or NO! |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 11:11pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:What about the Multitudes? My objective is not about the 144,000 but about the Multitudes. Were they not before the THRONE? Why are you avoiding the questions exactly like Muslim strategy 1 Like |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:14pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
TenQ: MaxInDHouse: |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 11:26pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
Janosky: Rev 7:9-11: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God," Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH? And therefore, 1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and 2. The Angels were here on EARTH and 3. The Elders were here on EARTH and 4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH OR You are LYING: exactly like Muslims! Please respond! 2 Likes |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 11:31pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:Why are you avoiding answering questions on the Multitudes (exactly like Muslims). You will ask them a specific question and they will rant on something totally different. According to Rev7:9-11, Rev 7:9-11: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God," Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH? And therefore, 1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and 2. The Angels were here on EARTH and 3. The Elders were here on EARTH and 4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH OR You are LYING: exactly like Muslims! Please respond! 2 Likes |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 11:35pm On Jan 26, 2023 |
Whenever you read scripture, always pay attention to the contextual message the author is attempting to pass to you—keep your private delusions out of the lines. 36 “No one knows when that day or time will be. The Son and the angels in heaven don’t know when it will be. Only the Father knows.In the above passage, Jesus Christ did not say that He would destroy the world when He comes back. Instead, what He said is that the end — His return — will come upon the world as suddenly as the end came upon those of the time of Noah. Please reason these things. If Jesus Christ were to in fact take away — cause to disappear from the earth, meaning no bodies left behind to be found — one out of every two individuals in the world — those who belong to the Kingdom of God actually — how can or would that amount to the annihilation of billions of individuals as claimed by JWs who believe that their job at the time would be to bury almost 8 billion bodies after Jesus Christ returns? 1 Like |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Kobojunkiee: 1:19am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Janosky:And mount zion happens to be in Jerusalem, here on planet earth. Mount Zion is a hill in Jerusalem, located just outside the walls of the Old City. The term Mount Zion has been used in the Hebrew Bible first for the City of David and later for the Temple Mount, but its meaning has shifted and it is now used as the name of ancient Jerusalem's Western Hill.So? |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:47am On Jan 27, 2023 |
If you're strongly convinced that this is a lie you don't have to continue bothering your soul all you need to do is find a better performing group that will tell you the truth and start worshiping with them nah! TenQ: If an organization of faithful people throughout the earth numbering in millions are lying then try to ignore /shun /avoid them and go for a group that will tell you the truth. The 144,000 aren't in the same place as the multitude what that scripture mean is that both of them are like one flock one shepherd even though they're not in the same place literally speaking. John 10:16
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Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Techobeys: 6:29am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Janosky: Revelation 14:1-4 is talking about virgins who have not defiled themselves with woman and they’re just 144000. They of those people who were taken from the earth to serve a special purpose, and they have never lied. Are you a virgin? Have you not ever lied? Have you not never slept with a woman? Why do you think it’s talking about JW where you marry yourselves off to each other? You really need Christ in your life dear friend. I know that you don’t have understanding but I hope you’ll let God save your soul soon. 1 Like
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Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:34am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Faithless miscreant, those are illustrations not literal words! If you want to know the meaning all you need to do is ask for a free home Bible study with JWs and we will TEACH you. Techobeys: 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 6:41am On Jan 27, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:Could this be the reason why you dodge answering direct questions exactly like Muslims . Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH? And therefore, 1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and 2. The Angels were here on EARTH and 3. The Elders were here on EARTH and 4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH 1 Like |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:29am On Jan 27, 2023 |
TenQ: The symbolic term "throne of God" simply means God's presence. So both those in heaven and on earth will feel God's presence just as the angels, elders, four living creatures and 144,000 will see God directly in heaven, the great crowd (multitude) will also see God with the eyes of their minds as He answers our prayers instantly! Isaiah 65:24 compare to Psalms 67:6-7 Your agitation over the symbolic term "throne of God" is understandable but there's no sitting on the fence it's either you BOW to our teaching or go for a better performing group that will tell you what you want to hear!
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Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by TenQ: 8:33am On Jan 27, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse:The Question is extremely simple. Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11 Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH? And therefore, 1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and 2. The Angels were here on EARTH and 3. The Elders were here on EARTH and 4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11 1 Like |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:41am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Ọmọ the throne is not literal so it means God's presence just as an angel told Moses that he is standing on holy ground, when Jesus was referred to as LAMB in the same book why not conclude that Jesus was a domestic pet? TenQ:
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Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by EMILO2STAY(m): 8:48am On Jan 27, 2023 |
TenQ:the truth of the matter here is that all who are saved will inherit the renewed earth not heaven. so leave all this throne this throne that |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 8:51am On Jan 27, 2023 |
EMILO2STAY:Well, this is also a lie. Not all the multitude described in Revelations 7 will inherit the earth and Heaven. As John explained beginning from about chapters 19 of His book of Revelation, there will be a judgment day and that day is the day described by Jesus Christ for those who belong on the Kingdom of God - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. Only those of them who pass God's Judgment will inherit both Heaven and earth, the rest of them, will be taken away - Matthew 24 vs 36 - 44 - to a place of eternal damnation. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by EMILO2STAY(m): 9:13am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:what you wrote has no biblical proof. there is no scripture that says some of the saved will inherit heaven and some earth . but there are abundant scriptures that prove the saved will inherit the earth. so the liar here is you. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:13am On Jan 27, 2023 |
They just want to go to heaven after turning the earth upside down! EMILO2STAY: |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Janosky: 9:18am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Kobojunkiee: Does Jehovah God dwell on earth? Oga,can your mumu komot from this forum. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 9:19am On Jan 27, 2023 |
EMILO2STAY:Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 and Matthew 19 vs 28 - 30 & Matthew 24 vs 36 - 46 tell you exactly that. Not all those who receive salvation --- are saved from God's Old Covenant- from Jesus Christ according to John 3 vs 16 - 21 - will end up in Heaven as some will end up in Hellfire. . ■ Well, the redeemed referenced in Revelation 7 of which the discussion you came in on was about, are those who are saved from God's Old Covenant Law of Moses , those who were bought by the blood of Jesus. They are those saved from God's Old Law, but they are not saved in the Kingdom of God since saving comes only after judgment day --- that is when you know those who are saved in the Kingdom of God from those who are not. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Kobojunkie: 9:23am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Janosky:Yes, God dwelled in the temple here on earth before He destroyed the temple. And God will restore His dwelling place when He makes His Jerusalem a holy city. This is written right there in scripture for those who have eyes to see and understand. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Janosky: 9:42am On Jan 27, 2023 |
TenQ: 1 Chronicles 29:23, King Solomon sits on God's throne. Oga,Where is the location of this throne ? You are desperate to cleave to your TWISTING of holy scriptures. |
Re: Is It Only 144000 people That Will Make Heaven? by Janosky: 10:11am On Jan 27, 2023 |
Techobeys: 1 Corinthians7:1-2 & Matthew 19:4-6,Did God forbid marriage? No ! But,James 4:4, Jeremiah 2:2 ,Ezekiel 16:32, did God equate idolatry, defilement with the world as sexual immorality? Yes ! In that sense, the 144000 are virgins. James 4:4 "Adulterers and adultresses , do you not know that friendship with the world is enemity with God?" Jeremiah 2:2 "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem that this is what the LORD says: 'I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed Me in the wilderness, in a land not sown. Ezekiel 16:32 "You adulterous wife! You receive strangers instead of your own husband" Revelation 14:1-4 is saying that the 144000 have NOT defiled themselves with women (sexual immorality with women they are not married to ) & spiritual defilement with the scarlet colour Woman riding atop the wild beast nor the world's political system, John 17:16. |
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