TenQ:

Your claim is that ONLY the 144,000 will be in heaven. I have showed you that the Multitudes are ALSO in heaven. That is why you want to redefine heaven as the presence of God.

TenQ:


Here again are the 144,000 before the THRONE

Rev 14:1-3:
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: [color=red]and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Here is the Multitudes ALSO before the THRONE.

Rev 7:9-11:
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,"

Are these TWO different THRONEs?

Janosky:

Oga be honest to yourself.
@ Revelation 7:9-11, did your own Bible say that the Multitudes are in heaven?
You are TWISTING the holy scriptures.

Take note of this DETAIL highlighting the difference between Rev 14:1-3 & Rev 7:9-11.

"And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: [b][colo]and they sung as it were a new song before the throne"

The Harpers are in heavenly dwellers singing before the throne.

Did Revelation 7:9-11 say the voice Multitudes came from heaven?
Answer: No! Not at all.

Did Revelation 7:9-11 say the Multitudes are dwelling in heaven?
Answer: No !

Do angels and spirits in heaven owe their salvation to Jesus Christ?
No,not at all. NEVER!




Let's Use a bible reference to answer your question.
When the sinner in Luke chapter 18 bow his head in prayer to God & the voice of Harpers in heaven giving worship.

Are the Harpers in heaven and the sinner on earth bowing to different God on two different thrones?

No !

TenQ:

Your claim is that ONLY the 144,000 will be in heaven. I have showed you that the Multitudes are ALSO in heaven. That is why you want to redefine heaven as the presence of God.

Here again are the 144,000 before the THRONE

Rev 14:1-3:
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Here is the Multitudes ALSO before the THRONE.

Rev 7:9-11:
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,"

Are these TWO different THRONEs?

Janosky:

Was this question in your post I responded to @8:24pm?

TenQ:

Check again in RED




Again:
Are the TWO THRONES in different places?

TenQ:

Did I not show you that the THRONE is the same for both the 144,000 and the Multitudes?

Of course you don't read!
Your memory verse has blocked your comprehension: why didn't you answer the preceding questions?


Can you show that the TWO THRONES quoted here (Rev 14:1-3: and Rev 7:9-11) are different?

TenQ:


Is it a false claim by me that JW believe that ONLY 144,000 people will go to heaven?

YES or NO!

MaxInDHouse:


First of all you thought the 144,000 are natural Israelites until i asked you to crosscheck the original at Exodus 1:1-5.
Both of them are in God's presence that's what it means but the four living creatures makes a difference because the four living creatures are in heaven each standing at the right, left, front and back of God's heavenly throne {Ezekiel 1:1-11} only the 144,000 are in the same place with the four living creatures! Revelations 14:3
That's why it's logical to conclude that only the 144,000 will go to heaven.
There is one thing i've noticed about you and it won't help you if you don't change:
You're always trying to find fault with whatever the JWs teaches whereas you can never ever find any group of worshipers as studious as JWs. That's why i keep telling you to go out there and find the meaning from any other religion if their opinion satisfy you continue worshiping with them. Your opinion can't and will never count before JWs unless you're able to present a better performing group with the things you think you know!

1 Chronicles 29:23 knocked out his claim that "standing before the throne" means the Multitude & 144000 are in heaven , nah the claim the guy man dey aim at.


King Solomon sitting on Jehovah's throne NEVER means Solomon ruled in heaven (or was in heaven) in the same manner that
standing before the throne"
NEVER meant 144000 & the Multitude were in the same place.

Janosky:

Oga, address my question:
Was this question in your post I responded to @8:24pm?

Janosky:

1 Chronicles 29:23 knocked out his claim that "standing before the throne" means the Multitude & 144000 are in heaven , nah the claim the guy man dey aim at.
King Solomon sitting on Jehovah's throne NEVER means Solomon ruled in heaven (or was in heaven) in the same manner that
standing before the throne"
NEVER meant 144000 & the Multitude were in the same place.

Janosky:

Oga, address my question:
Was this question in your post I responded to @8:24pm?

MaxInDHouse:


First of all you thought the 144,000 are natural Israelites until i asked you to crosscheck the original at Exodus 1:1-5.
Both of them are in God's presence that's what it means but the four living creatures makes a difference because the four living creatures are in heaven each standing at the right, left, front and back of God's heavenly throne {Ezekiel 1:1-11} only the 144,000 are in the same place with the four living creatures! Revelations 14:3
That's why it's logical to conclude that only the 144,000 will go to heaven.
There is one thing i've noticed about you and it won't help you if you don't change:
You're always trying to find fault with whatever the JWs teaches whereas you can never ever find any group of worshipers as studious as JWs. That's why i keep telling you to go out there and find the meaning from any other religion if their opinion satisfy you continue worshiping with them. Your opinion can't and will never count before JWs unless you're able to present a better performing group with the things you think you know!

TenQ:

What about the Multitudes?

My objective is not about the 144,000 but about the Multitudes.

Were they not before the THRONE?

Why are you avoiding the questions exactly like Muslim strategy

MaxInDHouse:


I've noticed him that he's learning so much from us yet he feels like making impact in what we teach which is impossible.

When a King's name is mentioned everyone is alert perhaps one of the kings representative is around but at the mention of the kings throne everyone knows that the King's presence is what we are talking about.

Before the 1,000 years ends Jesus will continue to be the mediator between God and all faithful people but after his 1,000 years reign Jesus will leave the scene so that all faithful humans will have direct dealing with Jehovah {1Corinthians 15:27-28} so it will be as if both in heaven and on earth all are in God's presence (standing before His throne) Revelations 21:3

I can't just thank you guys enough for helping me to understand all these scriptures fully! 1Corinthians 4:7

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, thank you and my God will continue to bless you guys for locating me!

Janosky:


The same throne in Revelation 7:9-11 is the same throne in Revelation 14:1-3 and the same throne in 1 Chronicles 29:23.
The location of the throne is not an issue.

The difference:
The location of the Multitude is different from the location of the Harpers/Angels.
Revelation 7:9-10, the Multitudes are NOT in heaven.

In Revelation 7:11, the angels are not on earth.


Revelation 14:1-3 John wrote:


And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: and they sung as it were a new song before the throne"


The Harpers are in heaven singing a new song before the throne.

MaxInDHouse:

36 “No one knows when that day or time will be. The Son and the angels in heaven don’t know when it will be. Only the Father knows.
37 “When the Son of Man comes, it will be the same as what happened during Noah’s time.
38 In those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving their children to be married right up to the day Noah entered the boat.
39 They knew nothing about what was happening until the flood came and destroyed them all. “It will be the same when the Son of Man comes.
40 Two men will be working together in the field. One will be taken and the other will be left.
41 Two women will be grinding grain with a mill. One will be taken and the other will be left.
42 “So always be ready. You don’t know the day your Lord will come.
43 What would a homeowner do if he knew when a thief was coming? You know he would be ready and not let the thief break in.
44 So you also must be ready. The Son of Man will come at a time when you don’t expect him. - Matthew 24 vs 36 = 44

Janosky:
Mount Zion is the place where Jehovah (the God of His servants) dwells,Isaiah 8:18; Psalm 74:2.

The 144,000 are in heaven to rule with Christ.

Deluded WAILER

Mount Zion is a hill in Jerusalem, located just outside the walls of the Old City. The term Mount Zion has been used in the Hebrew Bible first for the City of David and later for the Temple Mount, but its meaning has shifted and it is now used as the name of ancient Jerusalem's Western Hill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Zion

TenQ:

You are LYING: exactly like Muslims! Please respond!

Janosky:


Revelation 14:1-4, Revelation 5:10 & Revelation 1:5-6, sifia pains to WAILERS.

Techobeys:


Revelation 14:1-4 is talking about virgins who have not defiled themselves with woman and they’re just 144000. They of those people who were taken from the earth to serve a special purpose, and they have never lied.

Are you a virgin? Have you not ever lied? Have you not never slept with a woman?

Why do you think it’s talking about JW where you marry yourselves off to each other? You really need Christ in your life dear friend. I know that you don’t have understanding but I hope you’ll let God save your soul soon.

MaxInDHouse:
If you're strongly convinced that this is a lie you don't have to continue bothering your soul all you need to do is find a better performing group that will tell you the truth and start worshiping with them nah!



If an organization of faithful people throughout the earth numbering in millions are lying then try to ignore /shun /avoid them and go for a group that will tell you the truth.

The 144,000 aren't in the same place as the multitude what that scripture mean is that both of them are like one flock one shepherd even though they're not in the same place literally speaking.

TenQ:

Could this be the reason why you dodge answering direct questions exactly like Muslims
Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH?

And therefore,
1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and
2. The Angels were here on EARTH and
3. The Elders were here on EARTH and
4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH

MaxInDHouse:


The symbolic term "throne of God" simply means God's presence.
So both those in heaven and on earth will feel God's presence just as the angels, elders, four living creatures and 144,000 will see God directly in heaven, the great crowd (multitude) will also see God with the eyes of their minds as He answers our prayers instantly! Isaiah 65:24 compare to Psalms 67:6-7

Your agitation over the symbolic term "throne of God" is understandable but there's no sitting on the fence it's either you BOW to our teaching or go for a better performing group that will tell you what you want to hear!

TenQ:

The Question is extremely simple. Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11

Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH?

And therefore,
1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and
2. The Angels were here on EARTH and
3. The Elders were here on EARTH and
4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH


Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11

TenQ:

The Question is extremely simple. Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11

Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH?

And therefore,
1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and
2. The Angels were here on EARTH and
3. The Elders were here on EARTH and
4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH


Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11

EMILO2STAY:
the truth of the matter here is that all who are saved will inherit the renewed earth not heaven. so leave all this throne this throne that

Kobojunkie:
Well, this is also a lie.

Not all the multitude described in Revelations 7 will inherit the earth and Heaven. As John explained beginning from about chapters 19 of His book of Revelation, there will be a judgment day and that day is the day described by Jesus Christ for those who belong on the Kingdom of God - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. Only those of them who pass God's Judgment will inherit both Heaven and earth, the rest of them, will be taken away - Matthew 24 vs 36 - 44 - to a place of eternal damnation.

EMILO2STAY:
the truth of the matter here is that all who are saved will inherit the renewed earth not heaven. so leave all this throne this throne that

Kobojunkiee:
And mount zion happens to be in Jerusalem, here on planet earth. So?

Does Jehovah God dwell on earth?

Oga,can your mumu komot from this forum.

EMILO2STAY:
■ what you wrote has no biblical proof. there is no scripture that says some of the saved will inherit heaven and some earth .
■ but there are abundant scriptures that prove the saved will inherit the earth. so the liar here is you.

Janosky:
■ Does Jehovah God dwell on earth?

Oga,can your mumu komot from this forum

TenQ:

The Question is extremely simple. Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11

Can you confirm that according to Rev7:9-11 that the THRONE here is on EARTH?

And therefore,
1. The LAMB was here on EARTH and
2. The Angels were here on EARTH and
3. The Elders were here on EARTH and
4. The Four Beasts were here on EARTH


Where is the LOCATION of this THRONE according to Rev7:9-11

Techobeys:


Revelation 14:1-4 is talking about virgins who have not defiled themselves with woman and they’re just 144000. They of those people who were taken from the earth to serve a special purpose, and they have never lied.

Are you a virgin? Have you not ever lied? Have you not never slept with a woman?

Why do you think it’s talking about JW where you marry yourselves off to each other? You really need Christ in your life dear friend. I know that you don’t have understanding but I hope you’ll let God save your soul soon.