LordReed:


I am not Yoruba so I will need to do so extensive research for this and the history of homosexuality in Africa.

Techobeys:


Not accepting violence doesn’t mean you don’t express what’s inborn. People don’t like when they are at the receiving end of violence, but if they’re the one dishing it out, they love it.

LordReed:


I am not Yoruba so I will need to do so extensive research for this and the history of homosexuality in Africa.

triplechoice:


@Folykaze and @deepsight and @Lordreed ( not sure if you're Yoruba ,Reed, but need to hear from you too.) ,How true is it that homosexuals where the first people to have anal sex in Yoruba land which resulted in the descriptive word ,"adofuro"

triplechoice:


It's not a fact he was gay. What you just regurgitate is gay propoganda which has been debunked at different times.

We have several images of the king, but not one to show where he flaunted that lifestyle.

It was a false accusationhe was gay by people who wanted to take over his kingdom .

If you insist he was openly gay, then provide a reliable source detailing how he displayed that lifestyle openly.Make sure you don't bring where he was labelled gay without any evidence.

I'm not interested reading propoganda.

triplechoice:


It's not a fact he was gay. What you just regurgitate is gay propoganda which has been debunked at different times.

We have several images of the king, but not one to show where he flaunted that lifestyle.

It was a false accusationhe was gay by people who wanted to take over his kingdom .

If you insist he was openly gay, then provide a reliable source detailing how he displayed that lifestyle openly.Make sure you don't bring where he was labelled gay without any evidence.

I'm not interested reading propoganda.

FOLYKAZE:


Homosexuality is alien to Yoruba culture.

triplechoice:


The above is a joke. So homosexuals were the first people to have anal sex in Yoruba land and because of that
the word "adofuro" was coined?

Where did you get that from?

Where are the Yorubas on Nairaland to confirm this.

@Folykaze and @deepsight and @Lordreed ( not sure if you're Yoruba ,Reed, but need to hear from you too.) ,How true is it that homosexuals where the first people to have anal sex in Yoruba land which resulted in the descriptive word ,"adofuro"

@Jaephonix I think you're just imagining things ,and it's proof for me that you're only interested in winning an argument ,and don't care how you achieve that.

Even if it were true that homosexuals were the first to have anal sex, it still doesn't support your any of wild claims. Homosexuality and bisexuality are two different things. It's either you don't know the difference between the two, or you're deliberately trying to blur the lines in order to find support for your false assertions. You cannot confuse me with such deceptive argument. I'm very good at spotting that

The first link you shared below doesn't show how homosexuals were the first to have anal sex nor does it prove Africa was a hotbed of homosexuality. I think you need to check again the meaning of the qualifiers, "hotbed and immersed", you're using. They don't accurately describe what happened back then in Africa.

Nobody is denying the fact that we had effeminate men who could marry and have sex with other men in certain parts of Africa , but the culture wasn't widespread . What was common back then, was bisexuality not homosexuality
The links you shared showed nothing much. Just isolated cases here and there in some remote parts of Africa, and not everywhere.

What of your own community?

Are you not an African?

Get closer to your own people , listen to what they have to say and know the truth first-hand from them. I'm afraid you're being misled by what you read on some gay propoganda website.

Relationships with those effeminate shouldn't be equated with the culture of homosexuality as it's currently practiced in the western world, where it's one man to one man, one woman to one woman alone. The effeminate men if they marry at all, were married to men who were also married to women and that's not same sex relationship, homosexuality as we currently understand it to mean.

In most cases, if not all, such marriages with effeminate men are usually hidden from the public.


If same sex relationship was the norm and widespread back then in Africa, then the consequence of that would easily be seen; a marked decrease in the general population, since those who engage in same sex relationship don't procreate. If such relationships didn't mirror homosexual relationship as it's understood in the west, then why continue to use the inappropriate expression , same sex relationship, to describe it?

Why not describe it as it's? .They way it was understood and practiced back then in Africa.,so we get a clearer picture for comparison with what we see now




If you don't reply to the above question then don't expect me to continue with the conversation.
If you had the above information before now, why withholding it?You already misled your readers into believing that those artworks you discussed in your previous reply represents evidence of homosexuality.. You never considered anything else.
[/i] There's nothing like homosexual intimacy or gay sex. Sex is sex Intimacy is intimacy.Anal sex is not only for homosexuals? People who aren't gays are sometimes forced by circumstances to engage in anal sex.; Male students in an only male hostel, some sex starved soldiers with POW, and Sex starved prisoners
with other inmates during their period of incarceration. . Once the situation changes, the above group of persons usually revert back to the usual lifestyle.

What I see, is that you seem hell bent in seeing homosexuality in everything around you. So, I wonder why you're yet to describe as homosexuals ,male footballers who warmly embrace each other, and roll together on the field of play, during a game of football once a goal is scored.. Apart from you not providing any evidence for the above, I struggle to see its relevance to the ongoing discussion. The discussion is not centered on who taught anyone anything ,but on the false claim that the culture of homosexuality currently practiced in the western world is the same as we had back then in Africa and that it was also widespread
It's your own imagination that Mwaga 11 had wives to "comply with his father's wishes" share your source if you're not lying.

An African male king refusing to get married? You're telling tales by moonlight.

African sites labelling the king homosexual doesn't make it true. What makes something true is when it's supported by facts. There are no evidence from the link you shared below , which I retained in my reply, to confirm the king was openly gay. I have already explained the source of the false story.It was from the false accusation placed on him by the white colonialists. None of his own people confirmed he was gay and we don't have any images to support that he actually displayed that lifestyle openly.

The annoying thing you have done now, is that you shared exactly the same link which I already shared ,without even bothering to read it yourself
You only read the headline and quickly attached it to your post or read it without understanding it.

If you had actually read it , you would have seen that what it contains debunked your claim that the King was openly gay.
Go back to the thread and see where I shared the same thing showing where it was stated clearly that there's no evidence the King was openly gay.

Someone married to sixteen women is not homosexual. It doesn't matter if the person sometimes has sex with other men.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://theafricanroyalfamilies.com/2022/06/04/kabaka-king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-gay-bisexual-or-queer/&ved=2ahUKEwip1NyZ2O_9AhUGgv0HHdYcDv8QFnoECGgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0H1QrHzWl8LJnGEjzpJWr1

https://face2faceafrica.com/article/king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-the-19th-century-ugandan-king-who-was-gay

Uganda
In Uganda, religious roles for cross-dressing men (homosexual priests) were historically found among the Bunyoro people. Similarly, the kingdom of Buganda (part of modern-day Uganda) institutionalized certain forms of same-sex relations. Young men served in the royal courts and provided sexual services for visitors and elites. King Mwanga II of Buganda had several such men executed when they converted to Christianity and refused to carry out their assigned duties (the "Uganda Martyrs". The Teso people of Uganda also have a category of men who dress as women.

Kenya
Swedish anthropologist Felix Bryk reported active (i.e., insertive) Kikuyu pederasts called onek, and also mentioned "homo-erotic bachelors" among the pastoralist Nandi and Maragoli (Wanga). The Nandi as well as the Maasai would sometimes cross-dress as women during initiation ceremonies.

West Africa
The Dagaaba people, who lived in Burkina Faso, believed that homosexual men were able to mediate between the spirit and human worlds.[27][citation needed] They also believed that gender was based on the energy of a person rather than that of anatomy.

Southern Africa
Writing in the 19th century about the area of today's southwestern Zimbabwe, David Livingstone asserted that the monopolization of women by elderly chiefs was essentially responsible for the "immorality" practised by younger men.[30] Edwin W. Smith and A. Murray Dale mention one Ila-speaking man who dressed as a woman, did women's work, lived and slept among, but not with, women. The Ila label "mwaami" they translated as "prophet". They also mentioned that pederasty was not rare, "but was considered dangerous because of the risk that the boy will become pregnant".[31]

Marc Epprecht's review of 250 court cases from 1892 to 1923 found cases from the beginnings of the records. The five 1892 cases all involved black Africans. A defense offered was that "sodomy" was part of local "custom". In one case a chief was summoned to testify about customary penalties and reported that the penalty was a fine of one cow, which was less than the penalty for adultery. Over the entire period, Epprecht found the balance of black and white defendants proportional to that in the population. He notes, however, only what came to the attention of the courts—most consensual relations in private did not necessarily provoke notice. Some cases were brought by partners who had been dropped or who had not received promised compensation from their former sexual partner. And although the norm was for the younger male to lie supine and not show any enjoyment, let alone expect any sexual mutuality, Epprecht found a case in which a pair of black males had stopped their sexual relationship out of fear of pregnancy, but one wanted to resume taking turns penetrating each other.

triplechoice:


It's not a fact he was gay. What you just regurgitate is gay propoganda which has been debunked at different times.

We have several images of the king, but not one to show where he flaunted that lifestyle.

It was a false accusationhe was gay by people who wanted to take over his kingdom .

If you insist he was openly gay, then provide a reliable source detailing how he displayed that lifestyle openly.Make sure you don't bring where he was labelled gay without any evidence.

I'm not interested reading propoganda.

FOLYKAZE:


Homosexuality is alien to Yoruba culture.

Kayouzka:


https://face2faceafrica.com/article/king-mwanga-ii-of-buganda-the-19th-century-ugandan-king-who-was-gay/amp

Kayouzka:


Yet there are many Yoruba gays

FOLYKAZE:


Homosexuality is alien to Yoruba culture.

Kayouzka:


There is a monument that was built to honour his male lovers that path from him because they chose to be Christians and was killed for so doing

triplechoice:


The same people( white Christian colonialists) who erected the monument for the boys were the same people that accuse him, without any evidence, of sleeping with the boys and displaying the lifestyle openly.

Even if it were true he slept with the boys, it still doesn't make sense to describe him as an openly gay man. He was married to several women. Gay men don't marry women.

Why do you prefer the tag ,openly gay , for him Instead of the more correct description bisexual?

jaephoenix:

Bro, some gay people marry. They don't enjoy the sex with opposite sex. There are many instances where men/women discover their spouses are gay, after years of marriage. In this man's case, even his wives knew he was gay but stuck with him because of the class and power he wields.
It doesn't take a lot to educate oneself these days, but some people like you decide not to

jaephoenix:

Bro, some gay people marry. They don't enjoy the sex with opposite sex. There are many instances where men/women discover their spouses are gay, after years of marriage. In this man's case, even his wives knew he was gay but stuck with him because of the class and power he wields.
It doesn't take a lot to educate oneself these days, but some people like you decide not to

jaephoenix:

Again, no one accepts violence. You get sent to prison for that. Everyone is capable of an amount of violence even the most docile person, but it doesn't make it acceptable. What's the relation with homosexuality?

triplechoice:

You keep lying all the time and boast you're educated

Where is the evidence he was openly gay and that his wife knew he was gay.

The focus should be on the king and not any other individual you think is pretending somewhere. You want to deflect.



The other time you lied his father forced him to get married and now this.

Please go away with your half education and lies.

Homosexualsl were the first to have anal sex and because of that the word ,adofuro was coined. That's what you claimed on this thread without any evidence. You should hide your face in Shame

Techobeys:


The relation with homosexuality is that we can see that violence is as natural as homosexuality. If people get sent to prison bc of violence then they should be sent to prison for homosexuality too. The fact that you think it’s natural doesn’t make it permissible bc violence is as natural yet not permissible

jaephoenix:

Is being left handed natural? Or being able to roll the tongue?

jaephoenix:

No its not.
Another generative Yoruba concept is adodi, plural of ado, indicating a man who erotically loves other men. In one pataki, Yemayá travels to a land filled only with adodi, where she falls in love with an ado. In another, she divorces her husband Orula, whom she discovers is an ado, though variants of this legend say that Orula left Yemayá for the male orisha Ogún (sip your tea). Queer Black mythologies have harnessed adodi to imagine and enact a more intimate world.
Below is the The Adodi Circle emblem

Also
Aina ( 1991 ), for instance, found that homosexual intercourse was conceived of as a source of power for otherwise heterosexually oriented men. Furthermore, Ajibade ( 2013 ) analyzed the existence of same-sex relationships in Yoruba orature. An Ifa priest he interviewed related the genesis of Orunmila, the orisha of wisdom, who was begotten through the intercourse of two females. ...

Do your research before jumping to conclusions

jaephoenix:

No its not.
Another generative Yoruba concept is adodi, plural of ado, indicating a man who erotically loves other men. In one pataki, Yemayá travels to a land filled only with adodi, where she falls in love with an ado. In another, she divorces her husband Orula, whom she discovers is an ado, though variants of this legend say that Orula left Yemayá for the male orisha Ogún (sip your tea). Queer Black mythologies have harnessed adodi to imagine and enact a more intimate world.
Below is the The Adodi Circle emblem

Also
Aina ( 1991 ), for instance, found that homosexual intercourse was conceived of as a source of power for otherwise heterosexually oriented men. Furthermore, Ajibade ( 2013 ) analyzed the existence of same-sex relationships in Yoruba orature. An Ifa priest he interviewed related the genesis of Orunmila, the orisha of wisdom, who was begotten through the intercourse of two females. ...

Do your research before jumping to conclusions

jaephoenix:



3. About Adufuro, I'm not yoruba, but you can always ask about it. Heterosexual anal sex was was predated by homosexual anal sex. You can educate yourself by reading up the history of sex(as a whole) cos it looks like your ignorance is turning cancerous

triplechoice:


Calling someone ignorant doesn't make them that.

The claims you originally made ,which you're now trying to deflect from are listed below;

1. Africans were 'immersed' in homosexuality.
2. Africa was a hotbed of homosexuality.
3. King Mwaga 11, was the first prominent African to be openly gay.

The first two, I said were very wild claims, while the last one is misleading.

To be immersed in something, means to be engrossed in an activity without attention given to anything else ,nothing else matters.

Unfortunately,you haven't succeeded in proving that Africans were fully focused in homosexuality before the coming of the whites or christianity. You made the mistake of using the wrong descriptive word to describe what happened back then.

If it were true Africans were immersed in homosexuality in the past, then it would be readily observed everywhere and not just in some few remote locatons.

What of your own community? Are you not an African, where you are from? Were your people not focused on homosexuality too? Why don't you start from there and let's see if someone from the same community as yours would not come to challenge you.

A Yoruba person who's closer home and is well informed about the history and culture of his own people as come to say homosexuality is alien to the Yorubas. But you rejected it even when you're not Yoruba yourself or know much about their culture

To the number 2, In the context in which you have used the word ,hotbed, you actually meant that before the coming of Christianity to Africa, our societies were a breeding ground for homosexuality, meaning our environment favours and encourages homosexual relationship. This claim of yours is from your imagination and it's simply because you don't know the actual meaning of the word , hotbed and the other one immersed., both which really means the same thing.

Homosexuals, those in same sex relationship, don't procreate at all. Anal or lesbian sex doesn't lead to
procreation. Heterosexuals, are the only ones capable of reproducing sexually in any human community.

So, if it were true Africa was the hotbed of homosexuality and we were immersed in it, how come the population back then continue to increase to the extent slaves were being ' exported' to different parts of the word without a marked decrease in population size?

Theory of Evolution says, if a group is not actively reproducing sexually the consequence will be a drastic reduction in its population size.


You brought in modern day India as proof that a country whose citizens are mostly homosexual will not have its population reduced.

But you failed to provide any data for those engaged in same sex relationship in that country to aid accurate interpretation of happenings there. It was another failed attempt to use deceptive argument to wriggle yourself out of the tight corner your lies has placed you in.
There's no evidence India is a breeding ground for homosexuality or that they're immersed in it as you want people to believe. You continue to lie without shame

Now to the final one, I reject the tag of king Mwaga 11 as the first prominent African who was 'openly gay'. That description is a product of gay propoganda.
There are no evidences the King displayed that lifestyle openly .
Mwanga 11 was married to different women who produced many children for him, yet you want people to believe he wasn't interested in women . I'm willing to accept, at this time he probably had anal sex with the boys, but it still doesn't make him openly gay. Gay men don't marry many women.
The article you referenced says Mwanga was probably bisexual and was involved in anal sex. Homosexuality and bisexuality are not exactly the same kind of sexual orientation, but you continue to blur the lines deliberately.

Two reasons I suspect you still continue to insist the king was openly homosexual ,despite the fact he was married to women are,

1. The false assumption that people are born gay. There's no adequate scientific support for that belief anywhere. My apologies if this offends you. Are you gay? So I can confirm from your own personal experience what it means to be really born gay.

2. Your mind has been taken over by gay propoganda and you can no longer think for yourself concerning the issue. Most of the site you reference are owned by people with vested interest. You failed to carry out adequate background check on those sites or corraborate from elsewhere what its contained there. As long as they support your claims, you just copy it and paste on Nairaland.

Let's hear your own thoughts on the matter first, before providing support for them.

You want me to educate myself because according to you 'your ignorance is cancerous'

You made the claim that 'adofuro' in Yoruba was
coined because homosexuals were they first to have anal sex. And without substantiating it yourself, you now want me to educate myself on something that doesn't exist ?I

You made the claim and the onus lies on you to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Not me. Take your advice and go and educate yourself first .

You see how you have sadly shot yourself in the foot .You cannot provide evidence for your clams, but you derive pleasure on this board from taunting others for failure to prove their beliefs.

It's said that, those who are truly knowledgeable are loath to call others ignorant, while those who are intoxicated with the little they know are quick to label others as ignorant.

I'm done with you. I don't have time to read wayward copy and paste articles.

Flamemignon1:

Ain't this something but not surprised,a bigot will always be a bigot and please don't tell me to cite any sources because it's already obvious you will be unwilling to accept the truth as the debate will be dead on arrival and to even make your stupidity more stunning,he cited sources but you went on a hate tirade to avoid the truth without citing one source. Go suck Massa's dick

triplechoice:



Why don't you allow the person my reply was meant for respond himself?

And besides, where is the bigotry in my post? In your head anyone who challenges an atheist claim must be a bigot even in situations when it's reasonable to do so?

The person you're defending had declared, without enough support, that homosexuality, same sex relationship, was widespread back then in Africa; our ancestors were all immersed in it ,and I said no way.


I accept we had in some cultures sexual display or habits that parallels homosexuality, but not rife everywhere.

That's my position. You should have understood that first, before jumping in with your emotional rant.



The sources, your friend kept inundating me with , only contain few instances in some remote regions in Africa, where what can be likened to same sex relationship was observed
Those few cases, I have maintained were not representative enough for the whole of Africa for anyone to generalise with.



If you want to join him in such stupid generalisation, then provide figures, not just empty commentaries alone, of the actual number of cultures that same sex relationship was observed during those period. Provide accurate data or something much closer to it. That's what I ask for.

A remote region in Lesotho where 'same sex relationship was observed, is not all of that country. The same with a remote part of Uganda, Nigeria and elsewhere mentioned in those articles.

10% of something or less than that figure, is not 90% of that same thing Anyone who says it's, need their heads examined.




As for your "Massa's d**k", please next time ensure you don't skip your medications.

Flamemignon1:

Glad you called it an opinion and not a fact. Good day

FOLYKAZE:


Homosexuality is alien to Yoruba culture.