Triplechoice You have finally revealed your self, and I'm not surprised. You have been hiding behind a smokescreen of fake love and pretended humility . I know your type back then in Eckankar.

Lol this really cracked me up. I had never been under any guise of humility or fake love, if anything, my tenacity and boldness to hold you by the balls was what you had severally tried to blackwash as insult and injuries. You indeed are a funny man sir .

You joined for power. You will disappointed in the end

The path of power leads to destruction for those who follow that route.

Lol; In this stanza, you now assume the place of the ECK ITself. Wow, King of kings and lord of lords, I hail thee sir.

Give or take, you are indeed a wonderful creature of God you know, we both are .

chieveboy:
PYTHAGORAS


Pythagoras was a ECK Master in the Fifth Century B.C., an adept in the
Ancient Order of the Vairagi adepts, and well known as a Greek philosopher.

Pythagoras’ greatest statement was, “So that, ascending into the radiant Ether, midst the Immortals,
shall be thyself a God.” Pythagoras was one of the first who was well versed in the “mys-
teries of what effort is required to do something.”

According to Pythagoras, soul could
be at one of three points in relation to the body. It could be inside the head, just outside
the skull or off at a distance. The great Greek teacher said that the top of the head is the
point where the human merges with the divine.

I studied elsewhere that Pythagoras was trained in the Egyptian mysteries.

I also learnt that his concept of the Pythagoras Theorem we learnt in mathematics, was inspired by his education into the mysteries of ancient Egypt.

See this book by John Anthony West - Serpent in the Sky - The high Wisdom of Ancient Egypt.

So how was he an "ECK" master?

Can you point to any reference maybe in one of his many writings where he explicitly stated that he was or is an "ECK" master?

chieveboy:


Modified*

I thought to make it simpler for you on the guilt-tripping:

1: I can give it to you hot if the occasion warrants and feel no iota of guilt about it. I understand your dynamics of blackmail too well. You can even write Chanhassen about my 'uneckist' attitude. It's all an antic.

I'm not guilt tripping you , but only called you out for your reckless talk which I never expected.

Your pretences led me to see you for what you're not. Now that you have finally come out and bare your fangs , I'm now in better position to know how to relate with you if I ever have to next time.

There are some persons here I don't discuss with even if they quote me, while lessons learnt from discussing with some others have taught me to ignore them next time.



So be yourself and stop pretending. Hit me with anything. Then , it's either I ignore you or respond with fire
.

2: Of course you never directed any "attack" on me and non were directed at your person either. See below.

3: You seem to be mistaking the Master strokes applied to showcase your motive and intent for "personal attacks", anyways, I told you earlier above: emotional blackmail is not for me..

You are vague here. .


.

4: Please bring all the fact out. I am here waiting for you lol, I am so happy to hear that threat ..



Thanks.

Your threat means nothing to me if it means a lot to you.


I shared a link already go through that one first and respond critically to it.

chieveboy:


Lol this really cracked me up. I had never been under any guise of humility or fake love, if anything, my tenacity and boldness to hold you by the balls was what you had severally tried to blackwash as insult and injuries. You indeed are a funny man sir .




Lol; In this stanza, you now assume the place of the ECK ITself. Wow, King of kings and lord of lords, I hail thee sir.

Give or take, you are indeed a wonderful creature of God you know, we both are .

I didn't assume it. I only reminded you of something that's also accepted as truth everywhere

oteneaaron:


I studied elsewhere that Pythagoras was trained in the Egyptian mysteries.

I also learnt that his concept of the Pythagoras Theorem we learnt in mathematics, was inspired by his education into the mysteries of ancient Egypt.

See this book by John Anthony West - Serpent in the Sky - The high Wisdom of Ancient Egypt.

So how was he an "ECK" master?

The mistake people make especially that which inspired your question is that when they hear "ECK" they feel it is a religious affiliate of the ECKankar organization, whereas religions and organizations like Eckankar and other mystical schools are merely built around ECK.

I believe you read my definition of this term earlier in the other thread.

Moreover, Pythagoras and several of these 'ascended masters' present the higher teachings (we call "Eckankar" ) via several names and as disciplines like mathematics, music and so on in the course of history.

The person responsible for bringing the teaching out openly once again (Paul Twitchell) employed the terms "ECK" and "ECKankar", he could have used "SOURCE" and "SOURCEpath" respectively for those in English.

For instance, several religions had worshiped the sun and had called the sun and their respective religions different names but are all referring to that singular Sun we all know.

If you can, kindly read the latest story about Rebazar Tarz, it can give you another angle to grasp this "ECK".

So for each age, someone is always around to teach "Eck" in a way or form the people could accept or grasp. This person is the one with the highest consciousness of the day and is usually ordained by a line of ascended masters Eckists call the "Vairagi Adepts". "Vairag" means detached by the way. Sometimes, they work with a few group while they use dreams and 'direct projection' to teach distant ready souls.

Can you point to any reference maybe in one of his many writings where he explicitly stated that he was or is an "ECK" master?

This reminds me of the other guy

These guys however are not cut for making statements like "I am a master", if anyone does this, it may be a pointer that they are likely not. Most times, they don't even say their names.

Pythagoras's concept of mathematics further lends credit to the fact that mathematics or physics is merely the physical representation of the physically-definable aspect of what a portion of scientists call the 'Ether'. His approach in giving this teaching out is from the Mental or Third Heaven.

This ECK can be taught even via nursery school rhymes. Tai chi for instance is said to 'graspable' even from eating and doing basic stuff. So also ECK.

triplechoice:


I'm not guilt tripping you , but only called you out for your reckless talk which I never expected.

Your pretences led me to see you for what you're not. Now that you have finally come out and bare your fangs , I'm now in better position to know how to relate with you if I ever have to next time.

There are some persons here I don't discuss with even if they quote me, while lessons learnt from discussing with some others have taught me to ignore them next time.



So be yourself and stop pretending. Hit me with anything. Then , it's either I ignore you or respond with fire
.
You are vague here. .


.
Your threat means nothing to me if it means a lot to you.


I shared a link already go through that one first and respond critically to it.

Firstly, merely judging by how in-your-face I had been with you, never could you have mistaken any of it as some (fake) humility.

In my outer life, I have taken on a certain group of 'giants' who further have potent juju...

Perhaps you didn't notice me until when you introduced whatever led to you getting it without unnecessary filters. It was an honest mistake on your path to mistake me for some meek Eckist as requested.


Secondly, I have consumed too many of such before requesting Eckankar membership. Too many. Some of the questions and comments you may find some of these anti-Eckankar forums may be mine. Some are even off the internet. I further saw when a new group left Eckankar creating their own path.

Attached is a screenshots that may pass as a de-marketing of Paul to you written by Harold Klemp himself.

"Now don't shake your head, because this has happened in the past and will happen again. This is indeed what makes for a contradiction.

Thus, unless the seeker looks beneath the surface of what he sees, he may never glimpse the true teachings of ECK. He might miss what the Master is trying to tell him.

"OK. Now I want to go back to this subject of the ways that Soul searches for survival. If It cannot find survival through individuality, then Soul might find it in fame or infamy.

In other words, if Soul can preserve Its image or name in the memories of others, then It might feel It has survival. Or It may find survival vicariously through fleshly offspring, such as the father or mother whose whole interest is the lives of their children.

Cont'd

"Soul might take up some job that It feels is important in the running of an organization. This can be Its mission, you see? Or It might choose survival in the feeling that It is one of the few who knows some secret, ages old.

This is how the mystery schools have preserved themselves. They claim to be a brotherhood that has endured from the ancient days of civilization by passing down certain secrets. These secrets may not bring immortality, but the individual finds survival by feeling a part of this brotherhood.

"The point is that when Soul has a purpose or a goal, then It has survival. But when Soul accepts the dreams of others, It loses something vital.

Once the individual begins to act out someone else's goal, or some purpose established for It by others, then the interest and affection It has for what It is doing becomes weakened.

Do too much of this and Soul can lose the very source of inspiration and ideas that will lead It out of Its troubles and into the higher spiritual worlds.

Cont'd.

"So you see, the true freedom of Soul to act upon Its wishes is the very origin of your power to succeed. The greater your goal, the greater your power to reach it.

And out of this freedom and power comes the deepest love for every act you perform. These are the three aspects, as I have said before: freedom, power, and love.

"Now those who have said that harmony should come first and freedom second are wrong. Without freedom, harmony is an act or a show; but with freedom, harmony is the greatest expression of the divine law.

This is what the movements of today have overlooked. They have hidden the secret that Soul is the central operating unit of life. This is why the individual is such a trampled-on unit in our modern world.

Cont'd.

"So, if you wish to have freedom within the worlds of God, to become the spiritual traveler yourself, then you must first learn to control your own will.

An undisciplined will is your worst enemy. Next, you must control your imagination; let nothing limit it, nor conform it. Last, you must begin to make contact with the spiritual power Itself.

You must learn to live in the ECK and through It. The ECK Masters are always near those who are bold and adventuresome.

"This is some of what you should have gotten from the experience the Living ECK Master gave you!"

"I had no idea," I said.

The Tibetan nodded his head and pointed his finger at me. "There is always more to ECK than meets the eye," he said, and let out a hearty laugh that was infectious; it was so full of life.

Excerpted from https://eckankar-hu.org/Masters/Rebazar/Story01.html

The Eck Master's are real

oteneaaron:


I studied elsewhere that Pythagoras was trained in the Egyptian mysteries.

I also learnt that his concept of the Pythagoras Theorem we learnt in mathematics, was inspired by his education into the mysteries of ancient Egypt.

See this book by John Anthony West - Serpent in the Sky - The high Wisdom of Ancient Egypt.

So how was he an "ECK" master?

Can you point to any reference maybe in one of his many writings where he explicitly stated that he was or is an "ECK" master?

How u go ask this kind question...

Brando
By S. N.

Source: https://eckankar-hu.org/Masters/Gopal/Story02.html


In 1983, I moved away from home for the first time, leaving south Texas for a city in the Midwest. There, I embarked on a search for truth. I accepted an invitation from a man named Daniel to study with a spiritual group.

As the weeks went by, his classes moved from introductory mysticism into magic, and I became a promising student.
I developed a close relationship with a woman in the class named Jane.

It was a relationship originally engineered and observed by Daniel, who was our spiritual master.

Jane and I spent a lot of time together practicing the psychic arts. On one occasion, we were doing a past-life regression, and an experience unfolded for me.

Cont'd

I saw a boy and a girl standing at the base of a pyramid. It seemed as if they were at an altar, and a man was standing over them. The man had flowing blond hair and a solid, strong face.

Describing him later, I said that he looked like Marlon Brando in the movie Superman. I could tell that he was a great man.

Jane was very curious about this man. She continued to feel his presence around her house. We decided to ask the man who he was. When we asked him, "What is your name?'' there was no reply.

"Why are you here?'' we then asked. "I'm here for Steve,'' he said. "I have something for him, but he is not ready yet.'' He paused a moment and spoke again, "He will be.''

Cont'd

I asked this man if I could call him Brando; he smiled and said that would be fine. I felt he was my friend.

After a couple of months, Brando left. His presence had been a constant reminder to me that there was far more to truth than what Daniel and Jane had been teaching me. By the time he left, I knew that my time of studying with Daniel was over.

Daniel was reluctant to let me go, and a battle ensued on the psychic planes. These people were my only friends; leaving their sphere meant giving up everything I knew. But through a year of inner struggle with Daniel, I learned that even a black magician had no power over me if I didn't surrender myself. I learned the lesson of self-responsibility.


Cont'd.

My experience with Brando helped me keep going. His presence made me aware that a higher truth awaited me.

A year and a half later, someone suggested I investigate Eckankar. I read some of the books and was about to begin study when I decided to go to the local Eckankar center for an introductory lecture.

Once there, I noticed the line drawings of several ECK Masters on the wall. I broke into a cold sweat as I recognized one of the drawings as Brando. I had found the answer to a two-year-old question. His name is Gopal Das—the great ECK Master who lived in Egypt in 3000 B.C.

Awakening
By Phil Morimitsu

I had been wrestling with a problem at work for a week, to no avail. Somehow, I felt trapped in my job, and feelings of frustration and anger kept me from thinking clearly about not only this matter, but about anything in general. Tired of trying to come up with an intelligent solution, I decided to retire for the night.

I slept fitfully, not really sure if I was dreaming or if I was awake, just thinking I was asleep. After what seemed like hours, the deep blackness of sleep overcame my clinging to the waking state.

The scenery changed into a sparkling city of lights and color. The instant I arrived, I was aware of the presence of the Mahanta, Wah Z*, standing near me. He waited for me to take notice of him before he spoke.

"Hello," he said in a melodious voice.

Cont'd

Immediately, without words, we moved toward the center of the city where a large building stood amidst a green-hedged garden.

High domes loomed above tall columns on a foundation of light red or pink stone. We rose up the great staircase and entered the temple.

There was a glowing light, as I had seen in other Golden Wisdom Temples, that illuminated the interior. The highly polished floors reflected the candles that also added to the light.

There was a hush to the place, like it was frozen in time, in the dim past. I felt as if I had entered eternity itself.

Soon, a tall figure in a light blue robe strode toward us. As he came closer, I recognized him from the descriptions in Paul Twitchell's books as Gopal Das—the shoulder-length blond hair, the light blue eyes, round face, and fair features.

"Welcome!" he said to Wah Z and myself. "May I help you in any manner?"

Cont'd

Wah Z smiled, clasping Gopal Das's hands in his own. They seemed to know one another quite well.

"Yes. This is one of my chelas. I believe he'd like to talk with you about some matters concerning his life on earth," Wah Z said.

I squirmed a little at the thought, but it was true. Somehow, you couldn't seem to hide the truth from the Mahanta, even in the dream state.

"Well, there have been some things bothering me . . . but I don't think it's anything too important . . . ," I stammered nervously.

Gopal Das and Wah Z just looked at me and smiled in a knowing way.

"OK," Gopal Das said cheerfully. "Would you like to see some of *Askleposis?"

*Askleposis is a learning center in the capital city of the first heaven (AKA astral plane)

Cont'd

I looked at Wah Z, who gestured that it was up to me.

"Sure! I'd love to, if you have the time," I said, trying not to be too much of an inconvenience.

Gopal Das laughed, "That's what we're here for. Come this way."

As we walked through the shining, polished halls of the great temple, Gopal Das pointed out some paintings and tapestries that lined the walls and then started talking about things other than the building.

"You know, on the Astral Plane, we get a lot of seekers—seekers of freedom," he said while pointing to a giant wall hanging to his left.

Cont'd

"They come here, because this is the one place their unfulfilled dreams can have some reality.

What man wants most in life is freedom. And if this is denied in his waking state, he'll fulfill it on the Astral Plane while he's asleep. The next question, then of course, is, what is freedom?"

As we strolled down a corridor, I caught a glimpse of one long, great hall—larger than any of the others in the building. At its end was a glowing light coming from a book stand; I guessed a thick volume of the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad was resting on it.

Gopal Das continued, "The essence of freedom is expression, and freedom is measured by the degree that one is able to express oneself.

In the lower worlds, there are numerous limiting factors to this freedom. Society is nothing but a set of limiting rules.

So we find that the common man is becoming bullied by outer conditions more each day, and in his desperation, he finds that the only way to have any semblance of freedom is to create—to cause effects.

Then we get into the matter of setting policies, the science and application of power, in order to assert these creative actions.

Multiply this by the number of Souls on earth at any given time, and you can see why there is so much struggle, war, and interference with one another's space."

Cont'd

Gopal Das became silent for a moment as we turned one of the corners of the temple.

The three of us walked across the highly polished floor, and it occurred to me that I hadn't heard any of our footsteps echoing in the cavernous depths of the wide corridors.

I looked to Wah Z at my side, noting his quiet stride. Then Gopal began to speak again.

"There is but one way to attain true freedom in life—through Soul Travel. And many times the first steps are taken in the dream state, here in Askleposis."

Though Gopal Das's words and demeanor were soft, his message carried strength and conviction.

Cont'd.

"Freedom is finding existence outside of limitations. It is at this point that creation becomes one with beingness.

The need to assert oneself through creation ceases, because in true beingness, one is pure cause. One sees life in pure randomity by direct perception through the eyes of Soul.

When you visit new states of consciousness through Soul Travel, you're creating a new state of awareness within your own state of consciousness in order to accept the new things you experience.

The conditions you experience are not as important as the new consciousness you create, for once you are able to consciously create the conditions for the new awareness to come into your life, you will always be able to attain freedom, no matter how restricting the outer conditions. Look here!"

Cont'd

As he spoke, we came to a smaller room that was lit like the other rooms of the temple.

In a small alcove was a book stand with a thick volume opened to the middle. As we approached the book, I could feel my head becoming lighter from the strong energy radiating from the book.

Gopal Das spoke again. "I was responsible for the writing of an Egyptian book of dreams for the pharaoh of the dynasty in which I served while on earth. It is a compilation of dream knowledge gathered from the continent of Mu.

Pharaoh wanted the knowledge in order to know his future for material reasons. But instead, the ECK was given a chance to bring this vehicle of freedom to earth so that man might know the basic steps of Soul Travel through the dream state.

Cont'd.

"Quite simply, it taught the acceptance of the random awareness while asleep, so that one may learn to gain freedom in any situation while in the dream state.

Once this is accomplished, it can easily be carried over to the waking state. One reason it is easier to accomplish this random state in dreams is that logic is absent and the conscious mind can be bypassed in order to attain freedom.

In the waking state, the logical aspect of the mind becomes a hindrance—always telling the consciousness that it can or can't do this or that. In the dream state, the rules are more flexible."

Gopal Das looked at me with a side glance and immediately saw that I wasn't comprehending all that he was saying. We walked for a few moments in silence as he stroked his chin with his right hand. Shortly, he began again.

Cont'd.

"The dream state never lies about one's true feelings.

The mind's censor will scramble the truth, so the blunt message of truth won't shock or shame the individual in the waking state, but it can't obliterate truth entirely.

Once you can decipher the censor's scramblings, you'll be able to find the answers to any problems in your life.

"Do you recall the old tale of the emperor's new clothes? Briefly, some con men sold the emperor on the idea that he was wearing the finest suit of clothes—which in fact was nothing at all.

News spread throughout the kingdom that the emperor was going to parade himself to his people, so that they might see his magnificent new clothes.

When the emperor came out for the parade wearing nothing, the crowd was perplexed.

Cont'd

chieveboy:


My truth is demonstrated to a large extent from my experiences on the subject and that of others I have shared here. It is substantial even based on scientific yardsticks, given that same outcome of an exactness in the physical appearance and attributes of the Masters is obtained from each accounts from neutral and u related subjects of the 'experiment' where some are shared by the organization.

You keep seeking "a neutral group" for the study, but it was derived from those in Theosophy, Buddhism, Christianity and even atheism. The neutrality was even such that subjects of the experience where not subjected to any form of suggestion whatsoever especially in my case as a clueless Sunday-School-going child!!!

The idea of asking you to grasp the Peer Review system is that just you alone could form one, you could in every ramification of it and the process given the hypothesis at hand. At least you have the basic qualification as especially an informed critic.

So now have the awareness to request a "scientific process" to verify the Masters right?,you however didn't ask this earlier but was emphatic by saying "lies lies lies" to the account of people on the Eck Masters.

That was the actual putting of the cart before the horse, and is what inspired the prognosis of "Eckankar Beefer" and other adjectives I described you. They were apt and exact! It was based on obvious data you left behind not a "guilt shaming". Infact it is a form of guilt-shaming to say I was guilt-shaming you based on the apparrent cart on front of your horse.

It will take you a while to grasp that the mere stories I share here are scientific proof in the sense of the word. And that Eckankar being novel relative to the conventionality of mainstream science and it's research methodologies (much like millions of other uncovered grounds by mainstream science) has equally novel and unconventional processes for it's science.

At least you earlier admitted to the limit of current scientific systems and equally admitted to science not fully graping matters like some African medicine for instance. The only exception you have proven to make to this reality is when Eckankar is involved.

Can you see why we see what we see in terms of your apparent intent and motive although very very inconsequential after all is said and done?

I missed the above

Personal stories without proper verification is not evidence in the natural sciences, please.

What was the method used in verifying the stories you have been sharing? It's not enough to say because people report the same thing, then that's the evidence.

What's the percentage of people who have reported the same thing as against the general population?

What's the cause of the experience?



You said Eckankar is equal to the natural sciences such as physics chemistry and biology.

Natural sciences rely more on experimental data to prove its claims and not experiential data.



Since you haven't been able to provide any such data, it then means Eckankar is not what you want us to believe it's.

triplechoice:



I missed the above

Personal stories without proper verification is not evidence in the natural sciences, please.

What was the method used in verifying the stories you have been sharing? It's not enough to say because people report the same thing, then that's the evidence.

You will recall you used the AWAKE 2 as reference for a confirmation or verification of people having NDEs, and I reminded you that the AWAKE 2 if it merely focuses on the MRI image scans (I called it "brain dance images" and "brain postures" earlier) of people's brains, still does not pass a confirmation of anything EXCEPT if scientist are able to view in real-time the experience of the OBE subjects.

My point is:

1: Monks have been scanned when they are in high meditative state. The scans showed unbelievable brain activity. I suppose they'll be similar to those in AWAKE 2. Exception of course if AWAKE gives us video feedback of what the OBEd guy sees, smells, and feels.

2: If you would accept 2d images (MRI reports) as confirmation of a more grander occasion and experience, fine. Know however that in the case of similar scientific study and discipline like 'Past Life Regression', the experience of the subjects is the primary data for confirmation. Brain scan images are not used.

3: So personal experience even in Law is admissible if logical enough.

The only missing thing here is for scientists to develop interest to decide to converge and focus on the reports of Eckists on the Eck Masters.

What's the percentage of people who have reported the same thing as against the general population?

Hundreds of thousands if not millions infact. In your romance with Eckankar, you must have come across how they often do not always market a religion or point people to any immediately. Also how these masters work with groups in diverse fields of study if it suits their mission. Rebazar Tarz and a particular Master not mentioned at all in the Eckankar literature is said to romance Hollywood resulting in movies that stretch the consciousness of man.

You have them Agriculture, Tech especially, Medicine and, Mysticism and so in. If you must know, Nigerians are part of what we call Eck Masters too.

What's the cause of the experience?

Many:

1: Past Life relationships
2: Soul's readiness for Truth
3: Love
4: Divine Intervention

You said Eckankar is equal to the natural sciences such as physics chemistry and biology.

Natural sciences rely more on experimental data to prove its claims and not experiential data.

I must have made an understatement if at all I ever equated Eckankar with Natural sciences. Based on your antecedence l, what I can tell you is that what we call Natural sciences today are elementary mysticism or religion in advanced climes.

Science is even admitting to this--"The best of technology being equal or indistinguishable to magic"

Since you haven't been able to provide any such data, it then means Eckankar is not what you want us to believe it's.

I will let you have whatever arises from this assertion.

Eckankar however is not a belief path.

Anyone who believes anything from Eckankar without making effort to confirm is suffering from Social engineering of religion. Eckankar is not made for that.

These posts as you have been told are to inspire the spirit of adventure and exploration for one to know that perhaps, there may be more to the boundaries of religion.

chieveboy:


It was nothing beyond statement of facts and nothing personal. The mango never falls too far from the tree does it?

You never mentioned nor issued any disclaimers or even alluded to such in your explicit statements like "lies lies lies" "Eckankar needs your money", "Paul invented the Masters" "phantoms" , and all such statements that qualify as highly defamatory Paul Twitchell and the organizational Eckankar.

You cunningly employed the 'had-not-been proven-by-any-science' dynamics because you felt it gave you a good basis for your arguments about the validity of the masters, but then in another breath, you admit science is rather infantile in catching up to realities. You set a double standard, to what end and for what motive?

Now, if you had admitted that those online resources you hinted at where you said where the sources for when Paul "invented" the masters too where not really verified no proven by any means you hold "scientific", you would have been absolved of any suspicion of harbouring personal issues with the path. You're only (falsely) mentioning you give disclaimers after I requested scientific proof too, and you never did no alluded to any such disclaimers!



Awwwn, so you know about the "love" huh? Poor you sir, I am 'legitely' sorry if I hit a nerve, I am! Know however that what you're getting is LOVE, not "love".

At least we have peeled off an unnecessary layer today revealing that the reality that since ECK Masters are no lab rats that scientists could catch and put under their scopes, perhaps science if interested would explore other current or novel scientific methodologies for the venture.

Also you by now, you should be ditching the notion that science not verifying anything lends any discredibility to things! If anything, science had been a very good source of misinformation and deceit afterall. This is if you have your ears to the ground lately.

So please kindly take it by face value. It walked and quacked like a duck because it was one.

What I have mentioned about Paul Twitchell are facts not just mere claims. So , I don't need to issue any disclaimer.

If you want us to discuss those then create another thread fur it.

Before we had the Internet in Nigeria, I was already exposed to the falsehood of Paul Twitchell. So don't think I just went online to research whatever I have mentioned so far on this thread.

The internet hass only made what is known about Paul popular. That's all.

All that you have up there is another attempt to misrepresent me as usual.

I never completely dismiss your stories about meeting or seeing the Eck masters. I even shared my friend's wife story along the way, but said those meetings were with phantoms and not real beings.

I can only issue a disclaimer for my explanations about what caused those experiences. I talked about the higher self, soul or egregore which are not scientifically proven, but true using alternative methods of enquiry.

If you believe the Eck masters are real, nobody can disprove your claim successfully. But don't say they have been scientifically proven because when you do so people would surely ask for the scientific methods you have used to see if they can also prove it themselves.

chieveboy:


The mistake people make especially that which inspired your question is that when they hear "ECK" they feel it is a religious affiliate of the ECKankar organization, whereas religions and organizations like Eckankar and other mystical schools are merely built around ECK.

I believe you read my definition of this term earlier in the other thread.

Moreover, Pythagoras and several of these 'ascended masters' present the higher teachings (we call "Eckankar" ) via several names and as disciplines like mathematics, music and so on in the course of history.

The person responsible for bringing the teaching out openly once again (Paul Twitchell) employed the terms "ECK" and "ECKankar", he could have used "SOURCE" and "SOURCEpath" respectively for those in English.

For instance, several religions had worshiped the sun and had called the sun and their respective religions different names but are all referring to that singular Sun we all know.

If you can, kindly read the latest story about Rebazar Tarz, it can give you another angle to grasp this "ECK".

So for each age, someone is always around to teach "Eck" in a way or form the people could accept or grasp. This person is the one with the highest consciousness of the day and is usually ordained by a line of ascended masters Eckists call the "Vairagi Adepts". "Vairag" means detached by the way. Sometimes, they work with a few group while they use dreams and 'direct projection' to teach distant ready souls.





This reminds me of the other guy

These guys however are not cut for making statements like "I am a master", if anyone does this, it may be a pointer that they are likely not. Most times, they don't even say their names.

Pythagoras's concept of mathematics further lends credit to the fact that mathematics or physics is merely the physical representation of the physically-definable aspect of what a portion of scientists call the 'Ether'. His approach in giving this teaching out is from the Mental or Third Heaven.

This ECK can be taught even via nursery school rhymes. Tai chi for instance is said to 'graspable' even from eating and doing basic stuff. So also ECK.

Paul Twitchell 'invented' the word , Eck, and gave it several meanings to make it possible for him to link it with prominent persons and institution in history .

The reason he did that was to find support for his false claim that Eckankar , the religion he founded in the sixties, is at the root of all human inventions and achievements, and also that anyone in the past who had achieved anything worth celebrating worldwide was guided by the Eck.

Eckankar teachings describe the word, Eck
to mean the audible life stream, the Holy spirit, 'finer energy' , 'coalesced matter' (which scientists work with), etc. Eck is also defined as the religion , Eckankar, or is used interchangeably to refer to the same thing; Eck teachings, Eckankar teachings, or Eck masters, Eckankar master, etc

What we have here is a situation where a single word is made to mean different conflicting things at the same time.

The problem with this, is that, for instance, the audible life stream and the Holy spirit don't refer to the same reality as Paul Twitchell wanted his followers to believe.

In Christianity, the holy spirit is understood to mean a person or being that's part of the Trinity, the father, son and the Holy spirit.

While the audible life stream in Hinduism is understood to mean the all pervasive universal consciousness within everyone,

But since Paul Twitchell had tied the two opposing realities as one though the word , Eck, it then became easier for him to proclaim falsely that Paul in the Christian Bible was an Eck master and in the same breath Pythagoras was also an Eck master.

The 'Ether' that Pythagoras referred to in his teachings has no connection with the Holy spirit as it's conceptualised in christianity.

There's no known human language in the world, either in the past or present that the word ,Eck, can be found to mean something.. . Eck only refers to the person of Johann Mayer a German Roman Catholic theologian who was an opponent of Martin Luther

Paul invented the word, Eck, for a reason I already explained above.

Cc, @ oteneaaron

chieveboy:


You will recall you used the AWAKE 2 as reference for a confirmation or verification of people having NDEs, and I reminded you that the AWAKE 2 if it merely focuses on the MRI image scans (I called it "brain dance images" and "brain postures" earlier) of people's brains, still does not pass a confirmation of anything EXCEPT if scientist are able to view in real-time the experience of the OBE subjects.

My point is:

1: Monks have been scanned when they are in high meditative state. The scans showed unbelievable brain activity. I suppose they'll be similar to those in AWAKE 2. Exception of course if AWAKE gives us video feedback of what the OBEd guy sees, smells, and feels.

2: If you would accept 2d images (MRI reports) as confirmation of a more grander occasion and experience, fine. Know however that in the case of similar scientific study and discipline like 'Past Life Regression', the experience of the subjects is the primary data for confirmation. Brain scan images are not used.

3: So personal experience even in Law is admissible if logical enough.

The only missing thing here is for scientists to develop interest to decide to converge and focus on the reports of Eckists on the Eck Masters.



Hundreds of thousands if not millions infact. In your romance with Eckankar, you must have come across how they often do not always market a religion or point people to any immediately. Also how these masters work with groups in diverse fields of study if it suits their mission. Rebazar Tarz and a particular Master not mentioned at all in the Eckankar literature is said to romance Hollywood resulting in movies that stretch the consciousness of man.

You have them Agriculture, Tech especially, Medicine and, Mysticism and so in. If you must know, Nigerians are part of what we call Eck Masters too.



Many:

1: Past Life relationships
2: Soul's readiness for Truth
3: Love
4: Divine Intervention



I must have made an understatement if at all I ever equated Eckankar with Natural sciences. Based on your antecedence l, what I can tell you is that what we call Natural sciences today are elementary mysticism or religion in advanced climes.

Science is even admitting to this--"The best of technology being equal or indistinguishable to magic"



I will let you have whatever arises from this assertion.

Eckankar however is not a belief path.

Anyone who believes anything from Eckankar without making effort to confirm is suffering from Social engineering of religion. Eckankar is not made for that.

These posts as you have been told are to inspire the spirit of adventure and exploration for one to know that perhaps, there may be more to the boundaries of religion.

But you have not been able to show how it's not based on a set of beliefs.

For instance, how is it not a belief that the living Eck master is God's only true representative on earth?
As for AWARE 11 , please stop mentioning anything about it because you have shown that you have no knowledge about what they're doing. They have no means to confirm or see what people experience subjectively, but have devise a means to verify what people report during NDE.

Go and read the report first before passing judgement. What you continue to say about AWARE 11 is completely off the mark and it's annoying you keep repeating it with the confidence of someone who's abreast with what is being done

chieveboy:


You will recall you used the AWAKE 2 as reference for a confirmation or verification of people having NDEs, and I reminded you that the AWAKE 2 if it merely focuses on the MRI image scans (I called it "brain dance images" and "brain postures" earlier) of people's brains, still does not pass a confirmation of anything EXCEPT if scientist are able to view in real-time the experience of the OBE subjects.

My point is:

1: Monks have been scanned when they are in high meditative state. The scans showed unbelievable brain activity. I suppose they'll be similar to those in AWAKE 2. Exception of course if AWAKE gives us video feedback of what the OBEd guy sees, smells, and feels.

2: If you would accept 2d images (MRI reports) as confirmation of a more grander occasion and experience, fine. Know however that in the case of similar scientific study and discipline like 'Past Life Regression', the experience of the subjects is the primary data for confirmation. Brain scan images are not used.

3: So personal experience even in Law is admissible if logical enough.

The only missing thing here is for scientists to develop interest to decide to converge and focus on the reports of Eckists on the Eck Masters.



Hundreds of thousands if not millions infact. In your romance with Eckankar, you must have come across how they often do not always market a religion or point people to any immediately. Also how these masters work with groups in diverse fields of study if it suits their mission. Rebazar Tarz and a particular Master not mentioned at all in the Eckankar literature is said to romance Hollywood resulting in movies that stretch the consciousness of man.

You have them Agriculture, Tech especially, Medicine and, Mysticism and so in. If you must know, Nigerians are part of what we call Eck Masters too.



Many:

1: Past Life relationships
2: Soul's readiness for Truth
3: Love
4: Divine Intervention



I must have made an understatement if at all I ever equated Eckankar with Natural sciences. Based on your antecedence l, what I can tell you is that what we call Natural sciences today are elementary mysticism or religion in advanced climes.

Science is even admitting to this--"The best of technology being equal or indistinguishable to magic".

Is this a joke or what?

Where are the advanced climes located where the natural sciences is being refer to as religion or mysticism currently?

Your final submission is only made by those who cannot distinguish between magic and the rational sciences

.[/quote]